View Full Version : KiwiJet Alive and Well!?!?

26th Jul 2007, 07:49

Kiwijet Alive And Well :hmm:

Wednesday, 25 July 2007, 12:18 pm
Press Release: kiwijet


July 25, 2007 Christchurch, New Zealand:

The Kiwijet Airline Company Limited is alive and well one month after our bid to acquire the Qantas Jetconnect operation was turned down. We are well enroute to developing New Zealandís first all jet regional airline. As a result of the change we will take on a more traditional look and competitive fare structures to match all fares on competing sectors offered by the national carrier and participate with several global GDS systems and worldwide travel sites as well.

The Kiwijet difference will be obvious and the answer is simple starting with the choice of aircraft. We have selected the EMBRAER ERJ 145 regional jet to deliver a fast, sleek, comfortable and quiet jet that will take passengers to their destinations quickly and seamlessly. We are confident that our guests will appreciate the EMBRAER regional jetís speed, comfort and reliability. Or, people can choose the existing slow, vibrating, noisy and turbulent propeller airplanes of the national carrier that most kiwis and tourists alike are intimately familiar with bouncing around in New Zealandís skies.

The competition is so concerned with this image that they feel it is necessary to publish a 34 page booklet in the seat onboard these aircraft that praises the virtues of its new turboprops. The national airline goes on to make claims that these turboprops are fuel efficient as well. The reality is that these aircraft are 250 kph slower than the EMBRAER ERJ 145 jet keeping you in the air longer and more uncomfortable especially in inclement weather conditions using the same amount of fuel or even more depending on the winds.
We plan to initiate services with a fleet of seven regional jets to the cities of Auckland, Christchurch, Dunedin, Hamilton, Invercargill, Nelson, Palmerston North, Tauranga and Wellington in November 2008. Our schedule has been well planned to coordinate schedules with the following airlines in Christchurch and Auckland: Qantas, Jetstar, Emirates, Japan Airlines, Korean Air, Cathay Pacific and LAN Airlines for example. Passengers will no doubt appreciate the EMBRAER regional jetís speed and comfort offered by Kiwijet.

New Zealanders will benefit from the these aircraft as well by linking the far north to the far south in two hours or less without having to open their wallets while onboard. We will serve light snacks and complimentary beverages as well as beer and wine featuring local brewers and wineries as we had initially planned, we will even mind the kids for you too. Assigned seating with a generous frequent flier programme will allow our honored guests to accrue and redeem points with a variety of airlines and travel providers. We will offer a wide choice of options with co-branded credit cards, digitext and pre paid cards available in a wide range of outlets in New Zealand such as petrol stations, AA offices and travel agencies here and abroad. Even online check-in will be available for your convenience.

All aircraft will be based in Christchurch and log eleven hours of flight time every day. All aircraft will return to Christchurch at the end of each day allowing us to focus our efforts on maintenance and engineering activities in the overnight hours which will provide a high level of dispatch reliability. Due to the positioning of the aircraft we will offer the absolute lowest walk up fare between Christchurch and Auckland billed as the Sunrise Special CHC-AKL and the Moonlight Special AKL-CHC. Four flights will be offered each morning between CHC-AKL and each evening between AKL-CHC. These flights will be offered at $59.00 NZD inclusive of GST on a first come first served basis. All flights will make one enroute stop as well and a limited number of seats will be available everyday.

We are working diligently with the Embraer Aircraft Companyís Asia Pacific regional offices in Singapore to locate and secure the necessary aircraft and the certification of these aircraft to NZCAA Airline Standards.
Kiwijetís financial health is good with all of our equity partners committed to the project for funding up to sixty five million US Dollars as we achieve certain benchmarks and agreements with vendors. airports, airline partners, staff and the NZCAA.

We still have a long road ahead of us to bring New Zealandís domestic air services into the 21st century and compete effectively against a state owned airline monopoly that gives kiwis and visitors alike little or no options for fast efficient air travel in this vast and dynamic country as more and more people see New Zealand as a good value and a safe holiday & business destination.
Staff will have a vested interest in delivering a quality product by enjoying the benefits of revenue sharing on a quarterly basis. All Christchurch ground staff will also serve as cabin staff giving us a high level of productivity with the best care in the air.
A series of media events are now planned for November 2007 in Christchurch and Auckland to highlight our planned operations and introduce key management personnel and overall progress in this exciting project.

26th Jul 2007, 08:13
Sounds good on paper.

But the question is will it get off the ground? If so it would be good and make Air NZ improve their service on board.

Ground crew are cabin crew, geez suprised JQ hasnt thought of that one :eek:

26th Jul 2007, 08:26
They certainly write up well! Interesting that QN didn't make the list of destinations... I would have thought that one place they would be keen to have access to. Speaking of which... operationally, how would the ERJ go in a place like QN? Anyone out there with any info?

26th Jul 2007, 21:20
From Embraer's website for the standar tanks 145:

Take Off Field Length, ISA, SL, MTOW7, 2,270m :eek:
Take Off Field Length, ISA, SL, TOW for 400nm 1,380m
Landing Field Length, SL, MLW 1,400m

Now would it ever go out of QN @ MTOW?:confused:

26th Jul 2007, 21:48
So all aircraft return to ChCh for night maintennance?

Too bad if Chch is fogged out in the morning......

26th Jul 2007, 22:25
Quote nzmarty..."Too bad if Chch is fogged out in the morning"

......nzmarty,would agree with you,little strange to put all your eggs in one basket,especially in CHCH...but the "plan" looks good on paper....

...mind you ,if everyone plus the Aircraft are CAT 3 A/B Qualified and T/O mins are 300ft RVR(120m) then everything should be ticketyboo!!

Tried to find out the # of days chch is fogged-in(no luck) but they surely took this into account??

previous post mentioned performance #,s........these are also not a cheap A/C to operate.....load factor breakevens(from info I have heard are on the high side)....but then again ...they surely took this into account

27th Jul 2007, 00:38
I wouldn't worry about taking the ERJ145 into ZQN, those takeoff numbers means that AKL and CHC will be the only fields it can operate at Max payload.

I checked with a pilot friend flying P1 on the ERJ145 and he confirmed those numbers so this operation is going to be very limited with where they can go in NZ.

The reason for ERJ's is that they are cheap because they are not cost effective on short run operations.

Only AKL has the capability of Cat2 (as of 02 Aug 07) or 3 (sometime 2008), and when operating at Cat2 movements are limited to 6 per hour until ground radar is available (2009). International Widebody operations will have absolute priority for low viz operations.

27th Jul 2007, 00:57
By actually giving some for a start?!

Being an LCC, nothing will be given away on board. It will pay as you go for anything/everything you might want to eat/drink. :ouch:

27th Jul 2007, 01:32
Quote..."The reason for ERJ's is that they are cheap because they are not cost effective on short run operations"

Curious as to what you mean by "cheap".....fuel/lease/pilot/crew...costs.....and by "cheap" are you comparing it to DASH...737 320????......

We use the 145,s(plus other models of ERJ) on short runs to supplement our main carrier,because they have become economical(not cheap) on the short runs as the load factors are such that a 70-90 pax aircraft does the job......but the costs to run them are compable to some of the mainline fleet(73,s 319/320,s) and the only thing really "cheap" on the ERJ....is what they pays their crews

Not trying to shoot holes in your post,trying to figure out your "cheap" theory

kiwi chick
27th Jul 2007, 01:45
ooooh cheap? I might send them my CV - Im SURE i'd breeze in. :E

27th Jul 2007, 01:57
Now would it ever go out of QN @ MTOW?:confused:

Deffinitly wont get in/out of Nelson

27th Jul 2007, 10:54
Whos' going to do it?? Hanger CHC???

27th Jul 2007, 15:39
Can anybody provide any evidence that these guys are actually serious? All I can find is a number of blustery statements in the media making all sorts of evolving claims and an extremely 1/2 assed website featuring a jet made of kiwi fruit and a potted history of NZ all of 500 words long(please no jokes from you Aussie`s with your 600 word history). Some one please assure me that this is not some chronic yankee bullshitters mischief.

27th Jul 2007, 16:57

Well its hard to tell at this stage but if we are to believe the media statements they are serious about starting up, they are talking to leasing companys etc about aquiring jets so i guess they might be serious. Early september is when they are launching the website so guess we will know more then. I know for a fact the Dunedin airport CEO is in discussions with airlines about services to the city as a family friend knows him but he wouldnt say which airlines, just been to Sydney so guess it may have been QF/JQ and ever Pac Blue.

Personally it will be a good thing for the NZ aviation market, there really is only one airline operating, Qantas is there but doenst fly to the regional airports like DUD, INV etc etc which all have customers wanting to go to other citys and connect to international flights. Air NZ has a monopoly on regional routes and would be good to see some competition to bring prices down and it'd be great for pilots as well, more jobs :)

We will have to wait and see but as everyones said, good on paper but in reality............?

27th Jul 2007, 20:55
Agreed. Would be great to see some genuine deep pocketed competition in NZ. Can only be healthy for the paying public. Be interesting to see whats on offer for the drivers eh.

On Guard
27th Jul 2007, 22:03
They are being smart choosing CHC base as this has always been popular for pilots. I would say they will get a lot of prop drivers wanting a jet with CHC base.

Fog- depends what time they get in as you will usually get in at night to a certain time when it thickens. Then getting a/c out in the mornings not so much of a prob with reduced vis approval.

However can someone confirm this is only a 50 seat a/c that seems to have running costs similar to a 737 and has performance issues below 2000m. That is the jist I got off the net and if so this seems a really bad choice of a/c for NZ???


28th Jul 2007, 02:43
So they say the a/c are 250kts faster than a turboprop and will be logging 11 hours a day flying regional routes. Just how short will your turnarounds be and how many secotors do you intend to fly people?
Is all the infrastructure cost going to be worth it when considering the size of the towns you will be servicing?
Good luck but I think you have an uphill battle ahead.

Flyin Low
28th Jul 2007, 03:08
flyby.. sorry to be picky but it said 250 kph not 250 kts.

28th Jul 2007, 08:27
Even eleven hours flight time per a/c at 250kph faster is impressive.
Thats a TAS of 395kts (assuming 260kt tas of turbo prop).
make it an average of 350kts to account for the climb and thats 3850nm per a/c per day.
If they did 12 sectors in a day that gives and average sector distance of 320 nm.
Would it be possible to do 12 sectors in a day in NZ with an average sector length of 320nm? Operating out of places like tg and ns etc I would have thought the average sector length to be shorter. they would have to operate from six am til midnight to do 12 54 minute sectors with 30min turn arounds........assuming the load sheet is on time of course:)

28th Jul 2007, 11:38
They mention NZTG.

Now a jet service to Wellington, or Christchurch would be interesting!

Origin Pacific tried TG-CH direct with a J41 and in the very short time they were there, managed an average load of 18 pax. Not bad, but not enough for a 45 seat jet!

The yank's a bit doge aint he? Do a google!!

Anti Skid On
31st Jul 2007, 10:33
TG - CH - so the Jet Connect and Air NZ 737's from RO will be selling their seats at $1 -v- full price Kiwijet from TG - know which one I'd buy a seat on.

TG -CH won't work.

31st Jul 2007, 15:38
Origin Pacific tried TG-CH direct with a J41 and in the very short time they were there, managed an average load of 18 pax. Not bad, but not enough for a 45 seat jet!

mate you've been very poorly informed. it was a loser from day one.

What I want to know is does Mr R.I have anything to do with KiwiJet???

31st Jul 2007, 22:48
Proposed new budget airline Kiwijet says it's on track to set up its low cost domestic service in New Zealand but local airports say they know little of its plans.

Kiwijet founder American Patrick Weil said the airline had financing to operate seven jets on regional routes between nine cities.
The jets would begin operating here late next year and be based at Christchurch International Airport.
But the airport's chief executive Rene Baks said today there had been no dialogue between Kiwijet and airport management.

"We haven't had any discussions at this stage with any other operator. We would be pleased to see another domestic operator. . ." he said.
Mr Baks said his knowledge of the Kiwijet proposal came from media reports about it a few months ago.

Kiwijet said in a statement last week it would fly to and from Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch, Dunedin, Hamilton, Invercargill, Palmerston North, Tauranga and Nelson.

An Auckland Airport spokeswoman said today management had expected to be approached by Kiwijet, but that was yet to happen.
Kiwijet said it had tried to acquire Qantas' Jetconnect operation in New Zealand but that proposal was turned down last month.
The situation had forced changes in the airline's proposal, but it was still going ahead.

The company would use 50-seater Embraer jets and had already pencilled in flight schedules at Auckland and Christchurch that would coincide with international flights from other airlines.

The jets would provide a faster and more comfortable option over the "existing slow, vibrating, noisy and turbulent propeller airplanes of the national carrier".

Passengers would get to sample local beer and wine.

"Unlike the competition, our guests will never have to open their wallets while onboard," the company said.

Passengers would be charged a flat rate and flights between Auckland and Christchurch would be as cheap as $59 on a first-in first-served basis.
Kiwijet said company representatives would be in New Zealand later this year to give public presentations on the proposal.
The company has registered a website in New Zealand and said it would go live from November this year.:suspect:

31st Jul 2007, 23:43
The jets would provide a faster and more comfortable option over the "existing slow, vibrating, noisy and turbulent propeller airplanes of the national carrier".
Talk about blowing out other peoples candles to make his shine brighter. Fact remains TP's are far more economical than the jet. When an ATR carrying 68 pax burns around a tonne CHC-ROT, CHC-HLZ and vice versa, albeit over 1.5 hours, a Jet isn't going to be more economical no matter what the bleeding winds are. Think green man :cool:
Good luck with all those eggs in one basket thou' (CHC base that is) Like thats not going to roll into a massive ball of $h!t come the first frost/fog/front!
On the bright side I can't see him having a problem recruiting drivers, however I wonder what the T&C's plus job security will be like.

1st Aug 2007, 07:32
Good luck with all those eggs in one basket thou' (CHC base that is) Like thats not going to roll into a massive ball of $h!t come the first frost/fog/front!

Brilliant! :ok: :D :D

1st Aug 2007, 08:28
what are the chances of getting a Cat 2 procedure/ground equipment into christchurch? there could be a more thought behind the strategy than meets the eye. Although if the CH airport co havent heard from them.. well..

As for job security, well, if Mr. R.I. has any involvement in it then theres your answer.

1st Aug 2007, 15:46
CHC is only affected 12 days (on average) a year by fog and only a couple of those days actually have significant delays.

1st Aug 2007, 21:03
Thanks for the local knowledge there mate :D I must check out www.weatherforspottersinanothercounrty.com

2nd Aug 2007, 11:43
Yeah go Pac blue /jetstar or someone with the ability to keep going Dud needs the competition and you have to give Dud Apt CEO full marks for trying to give the monopoly some hurry up and get his first class new airport ready for the others.
There aint no competition down there and there is room for another go back my friends when Ansett Nz had around 86% of the business market
Just has to be marketed to our business fathers properly again and we know who that fella is

2nd Aug 2007, 12:08
John....was that even English?? Seriously dude, wtf?

2nd Aug 2007, 13:47
Christchurch is to be the base for New Zealand's newest airline.
Kiwijet plans to base their seven aircraft there and fly to nine destinations from November next year.
Company chief executive Patrick Weil says they are considering a fleet of Embraer ER-J 145 jets - Brazilian made regional jets with capacity for up to 108 passengers.
Weil says the company still has a long way to go in terms of negotiations with financial partners but is confident Kiwijet will get off the ground.
Crikey, that's gonna be a tight fit......!!!!!!! :confused::\:ouch:

2nd Aug 2007, 15:34
I may living in another country but im a Kiwi through and through from Dunedin. :rolleyes:

There was something in the ODT (digital edition) a while ago when all the fog closed Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin on Weather effecting air travel and NZ. Interesting read, gave facts and figures about how often each airport is closed on average from fog and how many millions of dollars it costs to have weather effect Air NZ's operations. So if you were implying i pulled that from my ass you were wrong.

John, i kind of understand what you are saying compared to other airports in NZ Dunedin has a great setup even if it is only with NZ and SJ. Hopefully we will see someone else setup soon. QF might even do alright out of Dunedin??

Blue-Footed Boobie
2nd Aug 2007, 18:56
Use ERJ145's in a low cost airline.. great way to lose money.

BA Connect in the UK were loosing £45mil a year with a fleet of 145's in addition to AvroRJ's and some old Dash8's.

There's lots of 145's on the market and probably quite cheap, but still the wrong aircraft.

Blue Foot

3rd Aug 2007, 07:12
I would have thought the E190 or E170 would make more sense?

3rd Aug 2007, 08:18
The big jungle jets would be interesting against the 733? Virgin/Pac Blu has just bought a bunch.

Just a thought

3rd Aug 2007, 09:04
Nah the Saab2000 is the aircraft to go for. Less limiting than the embraer, more fuel efficient and almost as fast.

3rd Aug 2007, 09:08
Wasn't Branson interested in using E170/190 to take over Qantas's routes here in NZ? I to think they would be better here:}

4th Aug 2007, 09:31
Kiwijet aims for $85.6m in 45 days :hmm:
5:00AM Saturday August 04, 2007

Proposed new airline Kiwijet says it expects to raise the US$65 million ($85.6 million) needed to launch a low-cost domestic service in about 45 days.

However, United States Kiwijet founder Patrick Weil said many details were yet to be finalised ahead of its planned launch late next year.

"It is premature for us to have discussions with Government and airport authorities until we have completed the capitalisation process and key staff placements within the company," Weil said in a statement.

"At the same time, we are keeping a keen eye on the rapidly changing economic landscape and currency markets as it relates to the US dollar and other currencies in the region. We feel that these market fluctuations should not affect or compromise our intended target funding of US$65 million."

The airline planned to operate seven Embraer jets on regional routes between nine cities, out of a base at Christchurch Airport.
Kiwijet planned to serve centres that had demonstrated strong sector growth and would support the company's business model.

The company decided not to connect to Rotorua and Queenstown to avoid competing with Qantas Jetconnect or Jetstar. A planned service between Christchurch and Auckland was for repositioning aircraft, meaning a limited number of seats would be available on the route.

Kiwijet is beginning to interview candidates for management jobs.:ugh:

4th Aug 2007, 09:51
Dont know about QF in Dud their name is mud in ZQN XXld flts on not bad days while the competition keeps coming and going at of course near enough to the same schd times diverts to IVC when the chkd in pax watch Qf approach and disapear only to see NZ arrive
Very pissed of people and staff.
One wonders how long they will be around in a domestic sence:sad:

4th Aug 2007, 16:13
This whole Kiwijet thing actually seems to be going somewhere unlike some of the other startups!

Off the topic but have any of you blokes read "Dog Fight" By Ewan Wilson about Kiwi Air's collapse. Really shows how aggressive Air NZ was to protect themselves in the 90's.

distracted cockroach
6th Aug 2007, 03:39
Going somewhere? Yeah right!!
When the first aircraft turns up, or at least when CAA type approval is given, then maybe it MIGHT be going somewhere. At the moment it's all just hot air.
Balloon anyone:ok:

7th Aug 2007, 00:29
A lot of hot air hell yes

Its been interesting watching this thread develop, I met Pat Weil and helped write the original Kiwi Jet proposal last year using 733's, I pulled out of any involvement because he wanted to go public before we had any financial backing - he still has no money, he told me so 3 weeks ago, it's all a hope and a dream that someone fronts with the dosh and when you study the ERJ model he has proposed now you don't have to be a rocket scientist to realise that it's the wrong aircraft for the job, limited in capacity and too expensive to operate on short routes, OPA looked at them years back and couldn't get it to make sense, then again they couldn't make sense of too much!

He hasn't got a show in hell of making it financially viable but on the off chance he finds the capital we will all have cheap airfares until they run out of funds.

Branson umm sorry no
RI too busy trying to find a home for his J31's
Pat Weil - a ground crew specialist

at least it gives the media something to get all excited about in the meantime