Working in Africa [Archive]

ZAZOO

1st Jan 2001, 20:05

JJflyer,
You are a bit too late, dont you think!
I will bark and if possible I will even bite on this particular issue, and what did you say I called somebody a dog, ooooh please.
I suppose you just came across my posting did you, and have found LetsFetz posting that has been sitting here for the past 24hrs or so fine.
Look sir I consider myself to have sound knowledge of the political, economic... . situation in most parts of Africa, what you called the big picture and also if we should go into it the reasons for this terrible dilema afflicting most parts of it.I am an African, I am not blind, deaf or even dumb,
I will sympathize with anybody who went through what LetsFetz had to endure during his stay on the continent especially a foreign guest in our country, but to continue about it using words like **** hole e.t.c. is completely out of order, millions of Africans ,as a matter of fact majority of us live a decent and honest life back home and try to make do with what we can everyday, and in our small way welcome foreigners and treat them like family "it is tradition", so please do not generalise and degrade us in this manner.Me or my people did not commit Africa to backwardness, refer your grieviances to those who have.
Africa is not a **** hole and will never be one and if we want to do something about going backwards, well if you have the opportunity to take a look at the cargo of most of those heavy laden Antonovs bound for central Africa then maybe it might give you abit of an idea.

NitroMan

1st Jan 2001, 21:34

What? I am utterly befuddled!!

Pray tell, who is the racist? Who then "committed" Africa to backwardness? Be careful what you say!

Flying_Steph

1st Jan 2001, 21:47

Okay guys, let's cool it...
I won't even try to make you become friends, but on this issue we're getting off-track. We're here to help Jockflyer who wants to fly in Africa, aren't we ?

I can understand Zazoo feels insulted but on the other hand I have to agree with most of the things that have been said, even though the terms used are sometimes excessive, like any shortcut.

Africa could be a great place, but it's not, and I doubt it will ever be. It's too late, the colonization and de-colonization process has been a disaster.

It's actually this whole planet which is a **** place !

Now let's get back to airplanes !

JJflyer

1st Jan 2001, 22:28

JJ´s never late. He just takes his sweet time.

JJ

ZAZOO

2nd Jan 2001, 00:07

A lot of the comments made here will not help any of your young colleagues seeking job opportunities on the continent, For a while now it has been the talk amongst local pilots who get the chance to log onto the pprune website about the negative remarks and abuse made about our respective countries and aviation community by some ppruners on the African forum.

Lets try and keep out the abuse and if we really want to help, tell them what to expect, and yes if I may add even of your bad experiences but of all things not to generalise. It has been a long time tradition to have young pilots come over to the continent from all over the world seeking experience and adventure.

I have met a few of them and have the outmost respect for them especially those ones who have never been here before and have no idea of what to expext not many people would do that, oh well they are pilots, to those of you who have left with good memories, thats all we wish you and to those who only have bad ones well what can I say!

At the end of the day it brings some sought of consolation to know that these comments come from only a handful of the aviators and expatriate manpower in different profession who have worked on the continent.

Goodluck to you Jockflyer all the best.

Zazoo

NitroMan

2nd Jan 2001, 02:03

hmm... that's nice.

But wouldn't you say they are your collegues too, as we all work in the same industry?

Maybe I'm missing something here... :)

Flying_Steph

2nd Jan 2001, 03:48

Hey Jockflyer, guess what... I just found a document that might help you make up your own mind on Africa. It's called the FAA International Aviation Safety Assessment Program report. The FAA issues one every year, and they just published their report for 2000. You can find it here: http://www.faa.gov/avr/iasa/ar12_21_00.pdf

For those who are allergic to the federal administration, that document simply says that only 5 of all the African countries checked by the FAA meet the ICAO standards.

Now Jockflyer, I don't know what your friends who flew in Zambia and Botswana chose to tell you about flying in Africa, but this is traditionally what you should expect:
- overweight aircraft
- flying AOG planes (means they should not even leave the parking)
- total disrespect of limitations (performance, duty times, etc.), standards and procedures
- lousy maintenance (if any)
...Which is, I hope, the opposite of everything you've learned so far.

What I fear for you, Jockflyer, appart from crashing and killing yourself like a few people I knew or losing a lot of money in this adventure, is that when you come back here you'll be transformed into one of those arrogant pilots who think that since they survived Africa they can survive anything. These guys come back to Europe looking for a job, and of course they get interviews with the airlines because they have experience but then they totally screw-up their simcheck because they forgot their IFR, the discipline for safety, and even the simplest skills required for a PPL ! These "survivors" even put a 767 on its back during a simulated engine failure...

My conclusion is that you have A LOT more to lose than to win if you go down there. Now, it's up to you...

Jockflyer

2nd Jan 2001, 14:37

Thanks for that info and insight Flying Steph.

It certainly gives me something to think about.My friends did mention some of the points you raised.

Losing my IFR skills is my biggest worry. I understand that most, if not all the flying down there is VFR and GPS aided(if your lucky), and having only just passed my intial IFR flight test in October, and knowing how expensive it would be to renew, it is a big concern.

However, what else can I do? I've been sending CV's out like mad here in the UK, and phoning people, and I still haven't got an interview. All the letters come back saying, "...1000hrs and MCC.."

I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place!

I would be interested in everyones opinion on the safety, or lack of, in various companies/countries.

Can anyone comment on Ross-Air. Do they fly IFR, are they safe, etc.

Have a happy and safe New Year.

p.s. Santa Claus doesn't exist. I sat on his knee and asked him for a job......

Kiwi Flyer

2nd Jan 2001, 23:14

flying_steph,

I dont know what background you have in botswana, but by the sounds of it not much.
I have flown here in Botswana for several years, and have found maintenance standards very high, and saying our aircraft shouldn't leave the parking are is ridiculise!
We operate in a busy bush environment, and over the last few years efforts have been made to relly improve things. I think a good example is the airport I operate from has around 50-60 aircraft flying up to 850 hours a year in and out of the bush without a fatal accident in around 5 years.
So please dont go knocking botswana unless your here!

And for people looking at Zambia try [email protected]

And by the way Africa is an experience not to be forgotten. It can be difficult at times, but if I thought it was a ****hole, I would leave.

Flying_Steph

3rd Jan 2001, 01:40

Mmmmmh...
Could anybody please tell me where I said Botswana was a ****hole or anything of that kind ??? http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif

I refered to Zambia and Botswana simply because Jockflyer's friends flew there and I wanted to talk about what they said and what they didn't say about Africa. I would not say Botswana is specifically a **** place unless I had "experienced" it by myself. Sorry, Kiwi-something, but it seems you misunderstood...

baronvonmildred

3rd Jan 2001, 04:42

I have worked in Zambia and DR Congo. In Aviation terms zambia is a small country with only a few operators. I freelanced there until '99. With 1500+ hours I couldn't get regular work and had to return to UK before my credit card blobbed. You can get a validation for a year or so, then you have to do air law, performance & type exams where required. Kenya last time I checked required an ATPL issued or you had to resit all your exams to 'convert' your license. Tanzania you have to resit exams. DR Congo is just dosh, but you might get shot down. Zimbabwe you won't get a work permit. SA will not convert your license unless you are operating outside the country exclusively (very hard to do for maintenance etc).

Maintenance outside SA can be very iffy. Most rules tend to be flouted and many aircraft have insuffient equipment to shoot an approach even if you manage to find one.

ZAZOO

3rd Jan 2001, 04:58

Let me see you say you want to help Jockflyer get a job in Africa, fair enough.

And then you say,
"If I was you I would keep Africa at the bottom of my priority list", okay.

And then you say again!
"Apart from crashing and killing yourself like a few people I knew". hmmmm

Then you say "we dey go off-track". Oh yeah!

And now "I wanted to talk about what they said and what they did not talk about africa" .Wonder what they forgot to say!

And again ....oooh thats it for me.

AMEX

3rd Jan 2001, 05:42

Like Kiwi Flyer I also flew in Bots and I have nothing to complain about. Our planes were safe, I never had to go over duty limit and if one choose to take off overloaded then, I am afraid he only had himself to blame. Yes my Instrument skills go a bit rusty and yes I was flying single pilot but guess what, I still managed to get thru a group discussion and a sim ride with an airline operating 75s, plus I had interesting stories to tell during the interview. There s lots of good things to learn in Africa so I would say, if you feel like it, go for it.
[edited coz I have fat fingers]
------------------
If you can't save the engine...save the airframe :)

[This message has been edited by AMEX (edited 03 January 2001).]

ZAZOO

3rd Jan 2001, 05:59

Hey Salut Amex,

Hows the Turbo-prop!
Joyeux noel et super annee 2001.

Bon courage.
Zazoo

Flying_Steph

3rd Jan 2001, 12:44

Folks, I'm getting tired of having to repeat and explain everything I say...

I never said I wanted to help Jockflyer find a job in Africa. I said I wanted to help him because he wants to fly there, which means I want him to stay away from trouble. But if he finds a place in Africa where he can get some experience and fun without all the **** that usually comes with it (notice the "usually"), well that's great !

Please do me a favor, read everything at least twice before jumping on somebody's back and making quick assumptions...

Zazoo, I personnaly think warning somebody of potential danger is a very good thing. Where I live, you'll get in trouble with the Justice Department (or what's left of it) if you don't do it. Warning Jockflyer means saying pretty bad things about Africa and I regret that, but face it, it's also part of the truth on that huge continent. Anyway, what's your experience of flying in Africa ?

Herc Jerk

3rd Jan 2001, 15:06

JockFlyer,

Mate, please be very careful about what you listen to in this thread.

You have ~250tt and need to get experience (ie hrs) to make yourelf a marketable quantity in the industry.

You can either stay at home and try for a co-pilot/instructing type job (as you have been) or buy a ticket to somewhere like Botswana and try for command time on a single.

A guy I know (same hrs as you) went to Bots recently and got a job in a week. Not always the case though. In a situation like that, when you have no experience behind you, what gets you the job is personality and how you fit in/get along with the crew. Plus good timing.

Take any of those US Govt websites with a grain of salt. They are incredibly negative. They exaggerate and play upon the dangers without giving a proper overview. Recently i travelled to Peru with my girlfriend. As i had heard there was some problems down there, I did a little surfing to see what info I could find. If I had taken the US website at face value I would never have taken my pretty, fair skinned Lass any where near the place (being a Gringo myself). We went, and the trip was fantastic, great people and no problems. The only way the website may have helped was to make me aware of "potential" problems that I could look out for. But you could apply that to anywhere. I would like to see them do a website on LA/New York/Miami after dark!!

The experience you can gain in places like this (Africa/Papua New Guinea etc) is hard to beat and not generally understood by those that haven't experienced it for themselves. You are "in command" and left on your own to make decisions at a low experience level, whilst dealing with all sorts of cr*p, in and out of the acft. If you can keep a cool head about you in places such as these, you will find it is a great "command" training for later years as well as excellent experience in the practicalities of flying. Don't worry about your recent IFR training, go learn to fly (and all that entails) VFR, keep your personal standards high, then when the time comes you can move on to IFR flying. Little steps, my Friend!!

AMXE and the KIWI are/have been in the places that you will probably want to head to so... listen to them. Makes sense.

Unfortunately, I can't help you with any contact details as I haven't been to Botswana, Zambia etc and where I am in Africa requires you to have at least another 3000hrs- no pistons here.

Good Luck with your decision, mate.

Regards,
Jerk

Skybiter

3rd Jan 2001, 16:49

Herc Jerk

That you, Shane?

LetsFetz

3rd Jan 2001, 16:57

Zazoo, my friend ... looks like you are not really a dog lover ... but then your brothers back home aren't either, except for one particular tribe in the north of this country who claim it's a delicacy ...

You say you are interested in history and like to get the facts straight ...
Well, I guess you should start doing your home work instead of sitting where it's cozy and comfy (why are you there anyway if Africa is sooo beautiful?) and tell others to get their facts straight ... when last have you been here?
The fact that you are a pilot in the UK shows that you don't really belong to those desperate nail-biters who are the victims of this madness that's happening here ...

You could start with K.B. Richburg's "Out of America" ... the story of a highly acclaimed BLACK journalist who spent three years in Somalia, Ruanda and South Africa ('91-'94)...
>>>"I'm tired of lying. And I'm tired of all the ignorance and hypocrisy and the double standards I hear and read about Africa ..."<<<
>>>"Thank God my ancestor got out, because, now, I am not one of them. In short, thank God that I am an American."<<<

Alternatively if reading a book is too much to ask, you can ask me ... it's my sixth year in Africa now and I did not come here to build hours but for the wide open spaces and to flee the crowded cities of Europe ...
In fact I came here as a Gas-Water-Heating engineer specialised in alternative energies (and a PPL), with nothing but good intentions ...
After 'they' emptied my house three times, broke into my car, rid me of my money and broke into my significant other's flat while she was sleeping (luckily, 'cause you usually don't survive surprising those intruders), my intentions are now, to get the hell out of here ...

I flew in the Angolan war, where I saw mothers holding on to their dead babies, women harvesting potatoes in mine-fields (80% of Angola, 'the jewel of Africa' is mined)and others, desperate enough for a couple of cents, walking into the running prop of an aircraft, in the usual begging manner ... all that while the hot shots who run that military regime lie next to their pool of their luxury villa ...
They almost ripped our King Air apart during an evacuation while bomb shells thumped in the background and back at base on our way home the brothers of those who we got out of the s..t threw bricks at us ... that's what is commonly know as 'biting the hand that feeds' and dogs usually do exactly that ...

I saw what happened to the Zim's when Mugabe encouraged the reposession of farms by so called war veterans, who were not even born when that war, veterans of which they call themselves, took place ...
Folks who were born and raised on that land had to watch their houses being burned down and their family being mutilated and raped before the traitors moved on to the next farm to repeat their atrocity ...
Just recently for Christmas, Mugabe held another one of his famous hatred-speaches against the whites ...

Our "Chief" (a former freedom fighter with eighth grade) has two jets as status symbol and recently asked for quotes for a state house costing 1.3 bilion instead of spending the money to feed his hungry 'brothers' ... last year 600 brand new Chev's arrived here to replace the only 4 year old Toyotas for the Government ... 'they' can't possibly drive up north on the weekend with family and livestock in 4 year old Toyotas ... no sir!!!

JockFlyer:
As to the flying in Africa, which I'm doing now for the last four years, I can tell you it is beatiful and an unforgetable experience ... mainly 'cause this country has the most breathtaking landscape I've ever seen ...
The times of over-weight flying and below standard aircraft are long gone and if you choose the right operator you won't have to fear your standards dropping, but will enjoy some challenging tasks with all the VFR AND IFR finesses you are looking for ...

Yet I don't recommend you staying here for longer than absolutely neccessary ... in and out!!! ... get the experience you are looking for and start focussing on the way out of here from day one ... affirmative action is not treating us very well ... just recently two non-white 747 co's were grounded after it was established that they did not even hold the type-rating ...

South Africa still has enough momentum to prevent it from stagnating ... the other countries I've seen (except Botswana) are definitely moving backwards and the increasing number of whites leaving the continent is the proof for it ...

I personally feel sorry for Africa and think it is a pity to let a treasure like this sink in half hearted intentions but full hearted ignorance ...

I'm out of here on the 21st and hope I'll never have to come back ... been there, done it and got all the 'bloody' T-Shirts ...

I agree with the recommendations made by the others, Ross Air is probably your best bet at the moment.

Good luck and enjoy
LF

------------------
Let there be cold beers on a hot day !!!

JJflyer

3rd Jan 2001, 22:33

LetzFetz.

That was probably the best description I have read about Africa in a very long time.You managed to keep it straight and level and regardless of all the bad things happned to you there, you still found good things. Raising my hat.

JJ

P.S. You did forget to mention Ebola, Malaria and some other very exotic conditions you can pick up there :)

Jockflyer

3rd Jan 2001, 22:40

Well, thank you everyone for your comments.
Please keep them coming.

Its interesting how people have different views on the same subject. That diversity, however, doesn't help me make up my mind though. I love the idea of flying in Africa, and the adventure of it. I could listen to the stories my mates tell me about flying out there all night...after a few beers, I'm sure the stories got embelished a little though.

By the way, if the names Darren K and Sean F mean anything to the Kiwis in Bots, thats my mates, let me know. Darren is on EMB145 with Brymon now, and Sean's with British European on Dash 8s.

Thanks guys.

Jockflyer

LetsFetz

4th Jan 2001, 01:45

Jockflyer,

I can not really make up your mind, but maybe this helps ...

Instead of going the instructors route, which you are obviously trying to avoid, you might as well pack your bags and go to Africa to gain some experience (not only in flying) ...
If you keep your mind focussed on why you actually there and your head above water, it will be something you'll forever enjoy thinking back to ... looking back, you'll marvel the good things and laugh about the bad ones ...

I still have to gain some distance first to be able to smile about what I've seen ...
The flying part, however, I'll never ever forget and I would not want to miss it for all the money in the world ...

I still say its a s..t place moving backwards, but the better alternative to becoming an instructor for someone who does not want to do instructing (those instructors are the poorest to me) ...

Don't give up and keep the pointed end going forward ... all the best ...

LF

------------------
Let there be cold beers on a hot day !!!

Jockflyer

4th Jan 2001, 01:57

Thanks for all your help and advice LetsFetz.
I suppose it one of these things where you have to just go do it, and experience it for yourself.

Thanks again.

Komba

4th Jan 2001, 15:23

HercJerk,

If that is West 1 then where have you been?

siggi-Iceland

4th Jan 2001, 22:28

You guys have any info to give or any advice on my flight from Iceland to Ethiopia. You can get more information on this on the
"A ferry flight from Iceland to Ethiopia,any advice !!!" thread in the "african aviation" section.

nugpot

5th Jan 2001, 01:15

Zazoo,

I see from your profile that you are quite new to PPrune and that you are located in the UK.

I gather that you are from Africa. I can understand your frustration with others saying less than nice things about Africa.

BUT, PPrune is not a place to attack people for stating an opinion. If you have a different opinion, say "I differ from opinion" and state your case. All you do when you get personal is to ensure that your points, however valid, will be ignored in future.

I also live and fly in Africa. I have been flying here for 16 years and have seen improvement in some areas in aviation, but also serious deterioration in others. Please also realise that for someone who grew up in Europe, it must be a huge culture shock to come to Africa and that would normally influence their attitude to and opinions about Africa.

Here endeth the lesson. I am mailing this to you and posting it on PPrune so that others might think twice before getting personal.

Forgive me for my sanctimonious tone. I just think that if we act like professionals, we might get our points across quicker and easier.

Flanker

5th Jan 2001, 12:37

JockFlier

I did my early hours in Cessna 210's and Barons in Namibia and South Africa and now fly in the UK.
I would suggest it depends on your final goal. If you want to fly airline in the UK I would suggest that you wait until the spring when the movement for the summer season takes place. This may produce an opening somewhere with a bit of luck.If that doesn't work then I would consider other options.
Sure flying single crew is challenging and mostly rewarding, but the truth is it's not very well regarded by many airlines because of the potential for becoming shall we say undisciplined.Probably not fair but that's how I see it.
Assume nothing, keep trying and best of luck.

Kiwi Flyer

5th Jan 2001, 15:21

Jock flyer, sean and dk were gone when I got here (only just). but dont worry there is still plenty of stories involving them doing the rounds, and a few people here still from their days.

Cheers and goodluck mate

Kiwi Flyer

B Sousa

5th Jan 2001, 16:44

Interesting thread, flying digressing to racism and backward countries. My two cents, as one who has limited flying experience there, is that the 'backwardness" is drifting southward. Disagree?? look at the Rand. 1/2 its value of five years ago. Zim Dollar?? put them on a roll and into the outhouse. Is that Racism, I dont think so, but it could and is, usually an excuse. As to licensing over there, a real joke and holdover from the European way of "if it aint difficult somethings wrong" Maybe Im spoiled after flying on a US License for 30 years, but I dont think licensing should be cause for issuance of a PHD.
Anyway, I love it over there, some very beautiful places, wonderful folks and Im hoping they can be preserved before its too late. Its going to take some serious changing of the Politics.
Fire Away......

NitroMan

5th Jan 2001, 20:54

I heard from a very good source that it is NOT their fault!!

It was JC!! When he left almost 2000 years ago, he said to them "Don't do anything till I get back..."

wizzflight

6th Jan 2001, 11:51

Go for Africa, but keep a few things in mind:
- You probably will get quite rusty on the IFR side of things. Don't worry about it, cause 2 or 3 sessions in a link trainer or some kind of simulator (even a PC based machine would work), will get you back up to standard quickly. Just try to do an instrument approach whenever you are around a big airport in Africa.
- Africa suffers from a huge lack of resources and hence not everything works as it is supposed to. The place where I flew for instance had a lack of competent airtraffic controllers. The reasons were simple: There was no money for proper training and once trained the smart ones left to go and work for the UN as HF radio operators. The UN job was much less skillful, but paid about 5 times more. Also, some of your fellow aviators are not too competent, because they have not actually done much studying of real flying, as they were able to get their licences through "other means". Keep an eye out while flying.
- Africa has a lot to offer. It is a magnificent continent, with huge variaty in culture, people, nature and landscape. Keep and open mind, be a bit carefull and you'll be all right. Sometimes advice from the local whites is very valuable, but sometimes they are stuck in the 18th century. I had a great time flying for "indian" and "african" owned companies for many years and learned many flying- and life-lessons.
- It is true that not everyone appreciates the experienced gained in Africa. The "western' companies that don't value african experience are the ones you don't want to fly for anyway, as they are pretty narrowminded.
- Go to Africa because you want to experience the continent, the people and the life, not just for the hours. Your career may be quicker if you stay in Europe.

Good luck with your decisions.

10W

7th Jan 2001, 02:21

Jockflyer,

In spite of Flying_Steph's generalisation about people coming back to the UK as incompetents, I have a good friend who also 'did' Africa because there were no UK jobs once he got his shiny new CPL.

He bought a one way ticket to Jo'burg and worked his way back North towards Europe looking for flying jobs till he found a job in Zim flying Aztecs, Barons, and Islanders. He got this by knocking on doors and asking people what was going.

He had a couple of years there doing some of the most fun and exciting flying he's ever done. (Although in light of the recent developments in Zim, he would not go back there nor recommend it now.) On returning to Europe with a good amount of P1 and multi time, he was not transformed into an arrogant incompetent all of a sudden, but got a job as co-pilot on executive jets. A year or so there and he joined the UKs second largest airline, becoming a Captain within 2 years. Now he's moved across to another UK major flying long haul.

So it can be done, just heed the good advice from those above and go in with your eyes open.

PS and he's a Jock as well ;)

------------------
10 West
UK ATC'er
[email protected]

Flying_Steph

7th Jan 2001, 13:04

Mmmh... 10W, would you explain me what led you to think that I consider all the pilots who have flown in Africa to be arrogant and incompetent ? English is not my mother tongue but I thought I could make myself understood...
;)
Or is it just a very subtle way to treat me as arrogant and incompetent ? :) :) :)

Jockflyer, I'm sure you've learned a lot of things with these posts (thanks to Letzfetz in particular), but I cannot insist enough on the fact that you shouldn't trust anyone down there, especially the guys who are getting close to your aircraft. The people involved in flight ops haven't always been hired for their knowledge of aviation and their skills, but sometimes because they knew the right person. From that point, you can expect ANYTHING unfortunately. I hope you won't meet people like this ramp agent who lied to me concerning the weight of the containers he put in our plane, and even put some extra tons behind my back (I'm sure he didn't fully realize what he was doing, but if we had taken-off at noon instead of midnight he would have killed us all).

10W

7th Jan 2001, 15:56

Hi Flying_Steph,

Well your quote below sort of did it for me.

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">when you come back here you'll be transformed into one of those arrogant pilots who think that since they survived Africa they can survive anything. These guys come back to Europe looking for a job, and of course they get interviews with the airlines because they have experience but then they totally screw-up their simcheck because they forgot their IFR, the discipline for safety, and even the simplest skills required for a PPL ! These "survivors" even put a 767 on its back during a simulated engine failure...</font>

If English is not your first language, then you do very well. However the intonation in the statement above is that this has been your experience of 'most' of the guys coming back. Clearly that is a sweeping generalisation and I would be interested to know what proportion of pilots you think do end up that way. If it's only a handful then that was not emphasised and needs to be. If it's a large proportion, then I'd be interested to hear what other peoples perception is.

I know of a couple of others who were associates of my friend who also flew in Africa and now hold down UK airline jobs. I have a small sample admittedly but 100% of them turned out pretty well even if they did fly in Africa.

You are of course right that things are vastly different from Europe and other such nations. It will not be a bed of roses and there will be dangers. Overloading, as you mention, is extremely common. I am sure for anyone who is not diligent, this is a potential killer. But none of the theories or practices involved in weight and balance should be alien to a CPL, and they shouldn't just be forgotten just because the pilot is no longer in Europe.

But for some, Africa and all it's warts provides a little mystique and adventures in their lives. As long as they are competent and worldy wise before they go, then I don't necessarily think that exposure to such conditions should suddenly change them into someone not able to fly safely.

------------------
10 West
UK ATC'er
[email protected]

big buddah

8th Jan 2001, 05:03

Kiwi flyer,
the only reason you don't leave Bots is because your barred from every where else!!

cheers i won't even get involved in this topic!

Kiwi Flyer

8th Jan 2001, 12:59

Ha HA.. hows it buddah...probably some truth in that!!!!
Not like yo though to not get involved in an arguement, getting soft in your old age?

P.s, flying steph, you shouldnt generalize every pilot in africa, everyone in your precious europe not that crash hot either.

Flying_Steph

8th Jan 2001, 15:09

Wow, things are getting personnal again... Exactly what we needed to make this forum interesting.
:rolleyes:

Now I want this to be perfectly clear: I'm not the kind of guy who falls into stupid generalizations, and if you think I do then read again what I've written.
Nobody can be as deaf as someone who doesn't want to listen, so I won't come back once again on that subject.

I have absolutely no idea about the proportion of pilots who come back from Africa with the "survivor syndrome" because the "samples" I had to deal with might not be representative... well, I HOPE SO. Anyway, who cares about statistics ? There's no better way to generalize than to do statistics !
But... I do know that 100% of the "survivor"-pilots I flew with come from Africa. Usually very nice and friendly people, and they still have all my respect because they went through VERY rough times down there, but I don't want to FLY with those "survivors" anymore unless they go back to a flight school before and get back on track. Anyway, no matter what they've done or what they still do, they don't deserve to kill themselves stupidly (possibly including me) because their "environment" forced them to
ignore the rules and guidelines they learned.

'Been there, 'done that, 'got blood on my t-shirt... but now I've had enough of that **** .

Finally, 10W, considering a pilot who got a job with an airline as being a good pilot is a clear case of sweeping generalization, and I demand the immediate removal of your post ! ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Have a nice day, folks

[This message has been edited by Flying_Steph (edited 08 January 2001).]

10W

8th Jan 2001, 22:00

Nobody can be as deaf as someone with a dud battery in their hearing aid ;)

I don't believe that I said they were necessarily 'good pilots' because they are with airlines. I said they 'turned out pretty well'. Of course to 'turn out well' can also refer to dress standards. How do you know that I wasn't talking about their uniforms ?? :)

Good luck JockFlyer in any case. The decision is yours !!

------------------
10 West
UK ATC'er
[email protected]

BadMan

9th Jan 2001, 13:17

Howzit hanging..

Just read the last two pages of all the Africa talk......Great stuff although some people still seem to go through life with their heads in their......in the sand. Beeing a born and bread white in africa I think I have a reasonably decent picture of what has and is happening in Africa. To summarize Letzfetz hit it on the head. I would even go as far to say that he painted a rather conservative picture..........

LetsFetz

9th Jan 2001, 15:41

Always on the left BadMan ... always on the left ...

Better for the quick draw if you're a right hander ...

But then I'm sure you know that ... being a hunter of the furry things yourself ...

SeeYa
Cheers and Beers
LF

------------------
Let there be cold beers on a hot day !!!

PapaWemba

13th Jan 2001, 07:53

Let's get on with it: Yes, i reccomend to go to Africa and start at the lowest of the lowest there is, and than move your way up.In a few year beeing there(if you last) you'll move up to the left seat.The experience is great.Even now, i still volunteer to fly there, when the rest of my collegues don't want to.

When you're there, stay away from the white hang outs(disco's etc,etc) because it's going to cost too much money.Make friends with the locals, and hang out with them(you'll have the greatest time)

The Africans are very friendly people but, you have to place yourself in their shoes.Wiling and trying to understand them is half the battle won.They are truelly a great bunch of people, really!Enjoy the great company food and beer there!

Btw to the rest of the racists, just to let you know i'm white, and love Africa, my place to retire.

Bakwetu....

sharky 145

13th Jan 2001, 14:29

Jockflyer,
I agree with Kiwi Flyer. I went to Southern Africa in 1995 with the same licence you have and about 600 hours. I spent over 2 years flying for a company based in Maun, Botswana, flying in the bush. It was an unreal experience and of very high safety standards and improving steadily. I still remain in contact with close friends who own some of the charter companies ad my suggestion if you are hungry to fly is go to Maun with enough cash to survive a couple of months and sit on those operators doorsteps (how I and most other pilot's were employed). It is frustrating initially but well worth the hassle and will give you good flying experience quickly. In my case it helped my so much so that I am now flying passenger jets for a fantastic airline based in Europe. You will also make friends there for life, a truly amazing bunch of lads and lasses. The bush in the Okavango is an amazing place of unspoilt beauty.
Good Luck

sharky 145

13th Jan 2001, 14:34

Who is Jock Flyer?
I flew with Darren in the same company for 2 years and also with K.C., Al J., Sam E-S, all Kiwis. We also stay in touch regularly, so I find this quite intruiging, do I know you?

Kiwi Flyer

13th Jan 2001, 18:05

Who is Sharky 145?
Just playing the guessing game, but not sure if I have worked it out. Not sure if you were still here when I arrived? Hmmmm......

HogWash

13th Jan 2001, 21:30

Flying_Steph

I can't believe what I have just read from you. I know I'm late on this thread, have been away for a while.

I spent my first 12 years bush flying in Africa and have been with an airline for another 12 years now. I tell you that flying in Africa is one of the best places to get invaluable experience. If you do not believe this look at all the airline CAPTAINS in Cathay, Emirates, Saudi, Virgin, Gulf Air, Singapore, Brunei, British Midland, to name some, who began their flying careers in Africa.

You are full of S*1t Sir!

sharky 145

14th Jan 2001, 14:16

Kiwi Flyer,
Without giving out names on this site, I flew for Swamp Air Charters before, during and with Darren K. from September 1995 to October 1997, let me know if this coincides with your time there. Now based in France/Switzerland flying an Embraer 145 for Crossair.

Flying_Steph

14th Jan 2001, 22:34

Well... According to my doc, I'm made of water (70%), and the ****ty part represents only a variable and negligible percentage.
;)

Anyway, thanks a lot for that outstanding lesson of tolerance you gave us, HogWash. Our community should be really proud to have a member who brilliantly demonstrated that he can listen carefully to what other people say, respects different opinions, thinks before taking action, and always stays in control of his emotions and aggressiveness.
I bet you're the guy who invented CRM !

Now seriously, of course there are a few places where you can get invaluable experience, and of course some pilots from Africa make their way up to the left seat of a major airline. SO WHAT ? And where the hell do you think I said it was not possible ???

It seems that every time I talk about something that really pissed me off when I was flying in Africa and/or with "African" pilots there's a guy who wasn't even there, but feels insulted or uncomfortable anyway, has an irrepressible urge to talk about himself, and thinks he's got the right to give me a lesson. And for what purpose ? For what ???

That's brilliant !

HogWash

14th Jan 2001, 23:25

Flying_Steph

10W has already taken you to task over some of what you have posted.

YOU seem to be the intolerent one! And I quote a part of one of your posts " but I don't want to FLY with those "survivors" anymore unless they go back to a flight school before and get back on track."

Why do they need to go back to flight school?

What on earth does CRM have to do with my last post? If you have done a CRM course I do not believe yhat you have understood what you were taught!

The tone of your posts has left me with the impression that you do not think much good comes ouy of Africa, including the "Bush Pilots" from there and that they cannot make it with an airline. My post was intended to illustrate to you that you are wrong!

Jockflyer

15th Jan 2001, 00:43

Sharky 145

You won't know me. I met Darren and KC, on the ATPL exam course, when they left bots.
I loved hearing their storys about flying out there.

I spoke to KC tonight actually, he's just started his type rating for the Dash 8 with British European.

Darren is flying 145 with Brymon and loving it.

Next time you speak to them, ask them about Jimmy (thats me), not my real name, but KC thought all scotsmen were called that, so the nickname stuck.

I not sure that I'm going to go out to Africa now. I start an MCC course on Wednesday, in the hope that an airline will pick me up soon, but if nothing happens by February, I'll maybe go out there and see whats happening. My brother live in Joburg and will drive me around in his 4x4. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, and we'll see what happens.

Thanks for replying.

Cheers

JF

Flying_Steph

15th Jan 2001, 13:07

(sigh)

I won't answer your questions for three simple reasons:

1. all the answers can be found in my previous posts, which means...
2. you don't pay attention to what I say, and that's why I ironically raised the CRM issue (ok, it was a bit rough... sorry about that), and finally...
3. it would be a waste of time considering your very selective memory. You made a quote and chose the most controversial part, and totally omitted the other parts where I said that I still have respect for the "survivors" I flew with. I'm not even sure you remember the positive things I said about Africa.

PPRuNe is all about sharing our experience, especially in this case where Jockflyer wants to fly down there and doesn't really know what to expect. I want him to stay away from trouble and I made a few posts about what I've been through.

If you don't like what I've seen and what I had to deal with, well, welcome to the club... The bar is open ! ;)

Now if you don't like what I say and the conclusions I draw about my personal experience in Africa and with "African" pilots, nobody forces you to stay here and if you want to relax and even deny the existence of the "dark side" of Africa, I'm sure an hour or two on Disney.com will work out fine.

HogWash

15th Jan 2001, 13:52

Flying_Steph

Yes you did say that you had enjoyed working with some Ex-africa pilots but then you went on to say that you did not wish to fly with them any more.

I have not denied that Africa has its problems, I was born and bred there so I am not totally in "the dark".

From your posts it appears that you cover the whole of Africa with the same blanket and you talk of your experiences there as poor.

I wonder how long you were in Africa for,where in Africa you were and what these experiences of yours were?

sharky 145

15th Jan 2001, 14:09

Jock Flyer,
ATPL Course - PPSC March / April 2000, sat in front of you for the 4 week Nav Course - not sure if you remember me - Mark B.
If it is you, how is the flying coming along.
Spent about 2 months job hunting and got in with Crossair in September, EMB 145, really enjoying it.
Just had mail from Darren, will tell him I've made contact with you.
Speak soon

sharky 145

15th Jan 2001, 14:15

Jimmy,
Drop us a line at [email protected]
I can give you all the details of the operators in Maun + any other advice you might want.
Cheers mate

NitroMan

15th Jan 2001, 18:43

Good question Hogwash, I'll second that.

F***ing Steph, you seem to have talked yourself into a conrer here. Either 1.you bought the ticket, and then couldn't get on the plane to Africa, 2. Went to Africa and couldn't deal with the lifestyle and got out quick, or 3. Got a job an weren't particularily liked and went home with your tail between you legs. And ever since have had a dislike of these "African Legends" you speak of.

??????????????????????????????????????

Flying_Steph

15th Jan 2001, 22:09

It's not 1, or 2, or even 3... by far ! :)
- Same player, shoot again -

I could answer you in detail, but then I'd have to kill you. Unless NitroMan, the self-proclaimed "Savior of the free world", comes to the rescue in time.
;)

You already know I flew in Central Africa. Well, mostly Central Africa because I went North, South, West, and a bit less to the East and all the islands around the continent. You also know that there were containers in my planes.
I did that for 7 years.
Mmmh, I think that's enough...

It's not my style to give away my identity to people I barely know and treat me worse than trash. It's okay to talk, but don't expect me to do you a favor anymore.

By the way, why don't you introduce yourselves ? Why don't you tell us if you enjoyed flying in Africa (I guess you did, but I'm not even sure) ?

AMEX

16th Jan 2001, 02:05

Sharky 145 old bugger!! Been trying to catch you for quite a while. I lost your number and moved house ten times since you last left a message. Drop me a line on [email protected] Where are you now?? I fly the Caravan and sometimes go near JER ?? Still there or on the main island??? Say hi to your lady from "Frog the dog".
Hi Zazoo !! sorry mate, have be off line for a little while. C U @ The LGW BASH :)

------------------
If you can't save the engine...save the airframe :)

Pavetack

16th Jan 2001, 03:52

Jockflyer

Further to your message about spending some time in Zambia. I would seriously advise against it

Actually to me your posts do look rather racist Pavetack. Removed to Admin area for review by the team. If we decide they are acceptable, they will be reinstated.

[This message has been edited by PPRuNe Radar (edited 18 January 2001).]

Pavetack

16th Jan 2001, 04:04

If you want to corerespond further than email me on [email protected]

See post above

[This message has been edited by PPRuNe Radar (edited 18 January 2001).]

LetsFetz

16th Jan 2001, 19:50

Looks like this is really getting blown out of proportion slowly but surely ...

Stop fighting guys ... there's different opinions about the land where the doors are kept shut so that the heat stays outside (reinforced with burglar bars against other intruders) ... and that's good ... imagine us all sitting on the same spot 'cause we like it so much (like Jo'burg !?) ...

PapaWemba for example ...
hmmmpf plllbrrr gnnnlpfffwuaaahahahaha ...
(sorry gotta go to the lu)
I'm not gonna comment on his post ...

Or Pavetack ... weeell ... some take less (s**t) ... others like it hot ... not so?

Actually ... on a second thought ... I like this thread ... so bring it on guys, bring it on ...

cheers and beers
LF

------------------
Let there be cold beers on a hot day !!!

LetsFetz

16th Jan 2001, 20:05

where is Zazoo anyway ... he brought all the fun into this thread and now he's gone !?

Heeello

------------------
Let there be cold beers on a hot day !!!

B Sousa

16th Jan 2001, 20:24

Sounds to me that Pavetack is a bit unhappy with Zambia. Question would be if thats the case, what are you doing in SA if your an FAA licensed anything???
I have to agree that some of the countries in Africa are headed back to the stoneage, ie. Zimbabwe etc. Heres hoping someone gets the message before the passage of South Africa.
Its the best kept secret on the continent, I certainly love it there...

Rat Catcher

16th Jan 2001, 21:02

Jock Flyer
Seems like you opened a place for people to talk about what's really bothering them in life..
I work in East Africa, so I can't comment about the rest..it's a great place to fly, hours come at a reasonable rate..600-800 a year, there are always operators who cruise on the back side of the curve so to speak, even in the hallowed airspace of Europe no doubt!!, but you can usually spot them!!
The IFR is often up to the pilot taking the beer time to practice..and after that cyclone near Mozambique..we're pretty current!
Don't be too disheartened by the sniping above, but be aware that over here, it is being seen and talked to that does the trick..work permits can be got by reputable companies if you are what they need and not everyone needs 1000 hours and MCC, the pay will obviously reflect the position in the beginning but usually improves as you gain experience.
If I can be of more assistance, drop me an email address..
Cheers
Keep the smily side up!

baronvonmildred

17th Jan 2001, 04:02

Ratcatcher- Can you give me any info on the current situation in Kenya. I was there several years back looking for work and subsequently worked in Central Africa. you can email me on [email protected]

Komba

17th Jan 2001, 11:44

Jock Flyer,

Come over for a few months. See how you like it.
Jump seat a bit - if it suits you, stay.

Incredible characters, laid back attitudes, great beaches, good flying...

Some like it, some don't.

Check it out, take three months here and see what happens...

Speedjeans

17th Jan 2001, 21:32

OK,
would anyone please give me some advice.
I passed the conversion exams in Tanzania and that was in Sept last year.
Had to rtn home due to sickness in the family.
The DCA in btw this said anyone wanting to convert now needs a 1000hrs.
I cant get any sence out of them in Dar, do you think I should go back out and just see what happens as they did let me spend lots of money passing the exams in the firts place!
All I need to do is get the licence issued and then I can fly my ass off in the great country.
Cheers
SJ's

NitroMan

18th Jan 2001, 15:02

OK Steph. Guess you've been talking about yourself then...?

(edited because i can't type worth s**t :))

[This message has been edited by NitroMan (edited 18 January 2001).]

Joao Amil

18th Jan 2001, 21:26

I am Portuguese and I am also strongly thinking about going to Africa, as my situation is identical to the one of Jock Flyer. Although messages were addressed to him, I thank everyone who gave these important information, as it helps me too.

It is however, sad, that some "unnecessary" comments have been made. I assume that those who made them have been through hard times.

Jock, let me know when you leave.
The best of luck for you.

cpt hamna sheeda

19th Jan 2001, 03:10

Speedjeans,

just go back to Dar. This 1000hr thing is what they tell to all the foreign pilots who try to find a job in Tanzania. I had my licenced conversed with 350hrs 1,5 year ago and found a job with it. After your 'contribution' to the local economy the 1000hrs issue isn't that off a big deal anymore anyway.

Good luck

batty_boy

19th Jan 2001, 04:47

Im in europe now (5 year sabatical) having done 10 years and 9000hrs in africa fliyng everything from british royalty to wounded gangrenous dinka.
Go for it mate, i thrived on it.Just dont be naive, and pasing the u.k flight tests was a piece of piss so dont worry about skill erosion, just maintain standards. Like someone said earlier there is not a better training ground for command skills than the bush,i would add that with the cultural mix and race factor there isnt a better traing gnd for crm either.
Alot of people slag it off, but the ones who shout the loudest about professionalism ( or lack of it) etc are usually the ones with a limited or narrow experience base and are scared of what they dont know or have never had to deal with, and dont or wouldnt last in africa.
I've met a lot of good systems and aircraft managers in europe and alot of good pilots but by far the best mentors are the senior training people who started life in the african (or PNG) bush.
nuff said
Safari Njema.

chapola

24th Jan 2001, 07:24

Jockflyer,
Two more (africa)endorsements from a couple of hosers(Canucks). We flew in Botswana and we are now flying the Airbus back home. When we go out for beers, we talk more about the good times and flying in Africa than we do about flying the bus. Lots of people say the words "carpe diem" and "you only live once", unfortunately not many people really understand what those statements really mean. Go for it!

note: those looking for a reference should not look to the movie Dead Poets Society, instead read Robert Frost's Poem,"CARPE DIEM".

[This message has been edited by chapola (edited 26 January 2001).]

Flying_Steph

25th Jan 2001, 16:51

Just for the fun...

KEATING
"I don't know what misguided impulse caused you to pull that ridiculous stunt, Mr. Dalton, but, whatever it was, I hope you've learned your lesson.

CHARLIE
You're siding with Mr. Nolan?! What about carpe diem and sucking all the marrow out of life and all that?

KEATING
Sucking out the marrow doesn't mean getting the bone stuck in your throat, Charles. You still have responsibilities to yourself and those who care about you.

CHARLIE
But I thought-

KEATING
There is a place for daring and a place for caution as well, Charles, and a wise person understands which one is called for. Getting expelled from this school is not an act of wisdom. It's far from perfect but there are still opportunities to be had here."

DEAD POET'S SOCIETY
http://cob754.dn.net/mypage/moviescripts/dead_poets_final.txt

;) ;) ;)

Skybiter

26th Jan 2001, 11:37

Whut?!

C210

26th Jan 2001, 12:25

Rat Catcher, G'day. I am in a similar position to Jockflyer, only difference is that I have been studing overseas and am retuing to Kenya to look for a flying job. I would much appreciate your assistance, please contact me by e-mail. Cheers

NitroMan

26th Jan 2001, 15:35

What? And why bother?

Me thinks it is just proving chapola's point anyway.

Nitroman... OUT. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

[This message has been edited by NitroMan (edited 26 January 2001).]

batty_boy

27th Jan 2001, 04:49

hello rat catcher,
ows the aero club.
can you pay my subs for me. having fun in the snow right now.
ask d.b when i can cum back for my command on the bong.

luv

opio

sounds like there is a couple of couldn't hack its on this thread eh.

PapaWemba

27th Jan 2001, 05:35

If you do consider coming down to, what some of you call the *sshole of the earth',you beter be prepared mentally.The reason most people refer to the continent as a sh*thole, is because they don't understand culture.Most if them are ignorant.Africa is a great place to fly.People are great.Hang out with the locals, instead of going to bullsh*tt European clubs.

Things down here don't work as swift as the rest of the world.But live is a lot easier here(that's why most of you want to come..)I can tell you one thing, as soon as the political status in DRC is back to ''normal'', i'll go back there and leave my bullsh*tt job behind me in Europe.

If you do decide to come here, be very well prepared for a culture shock.Take things easy, don't let people wind you up.One step at the time.Be prepared to leave the materialistic live behind you.However, keep the standards of your training, whether it's JAA or FAA, live by the 'rules'.

To all of you thinking about coming here, you beter think twice.This is not the easy place where you can get hours and good pay for it fast.Also, don't forget the 126.90.I really get p*ssed off with them great airline yahoos, who keep forgeting to give position reports, knowing there are a/c out there (most of them) without TCAS.

enough for now,

Bakwetu, Sala Keba Zaire

Papa Wemba

glacier country

28th Jan 2001, 09:48

Geez, grow up and stop yelling at each other.

I flew for Rossair from 1993 to 1995. I flew 1500 hours on Kingairs. Started with 630 hours. Flew Cessna 206 in Canada prior to arriving in Africa. Back during "Operation Restore Hope" in Somalia it was a grand, carnival-like atmosphere. I hear that things are tougher now with the Kenyan CPL harder to get and work permits just about impossible to obtain - even for companies like Rossair. Just in case you think it is all fun and games, I was hijacked once, held hostage once and had gun fights happen all around the plane on a few occasions. If you crash there will be no SAR. The phones don't work and the food is hard on your stomach. It takes about a year after you return home to fart with confidence. Still, it was the best flying I have ever had. I now fly for a major airline in the US.

Good luck!

Rat Catcher

28th Jan 2001, 22:12

Hey Batty_Boy
Wotcha mate..ow's the dog's bollocks then? Still got nodding head??arf arf
Oh great one..can do the sub's..want to be an oversea's or what..let me know
some upset people on this thread...
later

batty_boy

2nd Feb 2001, 19:23

already an overseas type just about to be posted for non payment. titan man cum back soon and prob take care of it.
me sit on bum here get paid might cum for rapid descent /sudden stop fun in march but snow is swallowin all my funds.
ows the goss, still trouble at bong politics.
earl of naivasha cum dis way for fun in snow me tink in march.
saw the mustache man on video when watched gorilla in mist on the dak. sorry me type in text message speak.
when me get left me cum back and stir the sh~t

say jambo to the colonel

opio

White Knight

4th Feb 2001, 17:39

PapaWemba- A bit misguided about your classification of "locals" and "Europeans", during your rant about BU****IT euro bars.
As far as I'm concerned local's are the people who come from a certain area, whatever their colour, but people like you just cause more aggro in the long run with your incorrect generalizations...
Unfortunately a lot of people turn up in Africa with silly liberal thoughts running around their heads - thinking that they can change things.
Not true, when there are things such as no social welfare,and other problems like tribalism and despots like Mugabe running the poor people of the villages into the ground.

Enough of that, Africa is the greatest continent on Earth. Flying there is a superb experience, and you'll learn a lot. If you can, go and work there and don't let people like Flying-Steph put you off with silly comments about lack of professionalism....It's just not true. It's a great place with great people, and as I sit here in West Sussex, England with the rain belting down I know where I would rather be....

Rat Catcher

4th Feb 2001, 20:21

OPIO
Yes! the earl..he cum..and hopes..he will..
:)
if tartan don't fix will do, ;) ;)
should I greet "Move it" for you..(he who don't wear headgear) :) :) :)
Things here ok see you when you cum for Diani drop-in http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif
Cheers

Keep that bong head nodding!

smallfry

9th Feb 2001, 03:12

Jambo Batty_Boy and Rat Catcher

SP with me now. I am doing his form 64 on Pprune. E-mail a bit new to him! A bit behind but we are getting there!. He say to OPIO 'only when the correct lip salve is used will he consider your request!' New pilots room at JK needs OPIO humour at present. Request you drop in on route to vertical touch and go! SP say "BIIIRDS shheeeeer" and "OH Super" are going training in the near future. "He with no headgear" or "He who used to have a spare flat in Westlands and didn't even lend me the key" will follow. C U soon, and don't forget the "oral CV".
ps AT and SP are looking for a small aeroplane for KC weekends upcountry to go and kunyua some chupas and check on the meelies.

batty_boy

9th Feb 2001, 15:47

allo boys.
who is he wiv no headgear?
wont be comin to jump, too much going on.
left next winter , then left in jk a few months after????
bout to go to chambray
startin to work agin.
might come for regular hols in april . need to do ir, got any king airs free?

got to go

opio

Rat Catcher

10th Feb 2001, 00:28

batty_boy....
I can't believe you missed that one! :)
Try "come on man..move it, move it" :)
Hey smallfry..Jambo..see you soon
Tell blondie to pass on a bit of "KC"ism to his meetings http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif
Later!

Herc Jerk

7th Mar 2001, 03:20

Just like to thank Jockflyer for starting this thread- albeit unintentionally. It really did become a good run down on the differences of opinions down here and also a bl**dy good laugh.

So Jockflyer, tell me what happened! Did you get on the jet to Africa? Get a job? Lets hear it!

Snoop

7th Mar 2001, 17:35

I have been watching this thread with interest after thinking of moving out to Africa, particularly Kenya, with my wife. I received a fair amount of information suggesting it would probably not be the best of Ideas to take the Lady. 4 months on I still have not got a flying job in the UK. I am thinking I might have to leave the wife behind and look for any contract work out anywhere in Africa. Can anyone email me any details of operators who might be looking, what sort of work and if you have any ideas on contract details e.g Bond/ type training/ week’s on/off?

I know this is a bit of a “can you scratch my arse for me as while you at it” request, but I am at a loss and I am getting really fed up with running into brickwalls, and hey if you don’t ask….. :)

Rat Catcher could you email me please ?

Cheers Guys,

------------------
Snoop

[This message has been edited by Snoop (edited 07 March 2001).]

Speedjeans

8th Mar 2001, 11:02

Well dude's I returned to Tanzania at the begining of Feb got my licence issued the same day and am now flying a C206 which is great, however I have not been paid and work permits are a huge problem and all that crap, so when you guys and girls do get a job try and get an advance in pay get them to show you a bit of good faith!
Good luck and safe flying
SJ's

------------------
Catch you on the flip side!

Jockflyer

8th Mar 2001, 11:27

We'll guys, I read with interest all you had to say, and Yes HercJerk I am now in Africa.

I arrived on Tuesday in Joburg, and next week I'll be heading north to Bots/Zambia.

I'll be sure to let you know how I get on with finding a job. If you see a new guy thats 6ft, short blonde hair, with a Scottish accent hanging about your airfield/bar, that'll be me, come and talk to me and a buy you a beer.

Take it easy, and thanks again.

JF

Herc Jerk

9th Mar 2001, 01:35

Crikey, another bl**dy Scot- I take it all back!!!!!!!

Nah really mate, best of luck- I'm sure you won't regret it and at the very least you'll have some great stories to tell to the grandkiddies one day... heavily censored of course :) :)

Bon Voyage

LetsFetz

9th Mar 2001, 10:39

Hmmm :rolleyes:

all the best to all you newcomers ...
welcome to Africa ...

cheers and beers
LF

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Let there be cold beers on a hot day !!!

Speedjeans

13th Mar 2001, 11:17

Arrrrrrr! Bugger,
A short lived sucess story this time, lost my job today, the boss told me he is leaseing the a/c out to another company, but I think the is more to it then that!
Need help please anyone need a C206 pilot in Tanzania.
Please help got shafted need job!
Cheers
SJ's

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Catch you on the flip side!

Rat Catcher

13th Mar 2001, 19:38

SJ
Sorry to hear that!
Have you tried Northern Air or Air Excel?
Snoop, Check your mail!

AMEX

14th Mar 2001, 07:44

Speedjean: Looks like you are trying hard to get a job. Email me when you get back in the UK, but try to get 500 TT or more (torbo-prop a good thing but not essential) Sorry guys, this is only for SJ who's out there.

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If you can't save the engine...save the airframe :D

Peter Pan

14th Mar 2001, 11:33

Hey speedjeans,

give a try with Pro flight,staravia and airwaves in Zambia, they both use 206, Be55 and chieftain. Of course you'll have to deal
with work permit again, but not a major
problem as far as you get letter from employer. It is worth trying, good flying
there. Good luck and keep on fighting !
More info, mail me.

Speedjeans

14th Mar 2001, 13:46

Thanks AMEX will do just need to get another 120hrs and that will be my 500 and some turbine experience....
Rat Catcher what's the deal in me converting either my British CPL or my Tanzanian CPL to a Kenyan?
Advice please guys, don't want to go to Zambia as am running out of money fast and have lost 2stone in weight from stress and bad icecreams in Dar!
Tanks for your comments folk's
Speak to you soon
Paul

4144r

14th Mar 2001, 21:48

Hi gusto!
where are you?
what's happen?
Safe flight

Skaz

18th Mar 2001, 17:18

Kiwiflyer - you ding our plane yet, mate? Not much chance of that happening flying in straight lines all the time, huh!Guess who's been made chief peanut...

LetzFetz.- best description I've heard 'bout living, working, flying in this place, ever.

dvrfly

24th Mar 2001, 00:47

Firstly Jockfly. I'm not sure if I'm too late (you might already be in Africa), but I have to provide you with some confirmation advice. Rossair is one of the better companies to work for as far as African Aviation is concerned. They keep a good safety/maintenance record. I flew for them for 9 months and did a fair bit of IFR (ILS to minima etc). They also have a diversity of aircraft and contracts.
Another possibility is Balmoral Contracts based in Durban, but also with several contracts. King Air services based in Lanseria are also a possibility. Africa can be rough and DANGEROUS. With the proper precautions you can avoid most of the problems, but in general it tends to be not one of the easiest places in the world to operate, but I must admit that I did have a fair bit of fun. One does meet some of the most interesting people as a lot of these contracts are for NGO's and they are a breed amongst themselves. So if you think you have the ability to think on your feet and get on with sometimes very difficult people then Africa is a faily good place to get hours. Do keep all the pro's and CONS in mind though.
PS: DHL Africa have also recently started with Cessna Caravans in West Africa so they might also be a possibility.

Good luck and wings level.
DvR