European Business Jets

[Sir Lee B´stard]

Any information on working for European Business Jets, bases, salaries and experience requirements etc?


Many thanks

[flybypilot]

Have a very high turnover of staff and a poor reputation. Never heard a good word about them personally and know a few ex-employees who were glad they left!! Believe they are also the lowest paying citation operator in the country but that is through the grapevine and not set in stone!

Hope that helps, I personally would steer very clear!

[MIKECR]

I see there advertising in Flight just now for crews, based Edinburgh.

[silverhawk]

Beware the posts on here that profess to know what they are talking about. Evidently, they do not.

[dc9-32]

flybypilot and who's book have you been reading then? The salaries are not the highest, I agree, but clearly, you don't know what you are talking about. Not a disgruntled Universal Aviation employee are you :confused:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/andy757/dc9.jpg

[First.officer]

Hmmm - keep it coming....:E

[flybypilot]

Not at all!!! I have seen things with my own eyes and heard others from very reliable sources i.e ex employees. If you are so in the know then why dont you correct me fully on my details and answer the original questions set out in the post.
Certainly the turnover of staff compared to any company I have ever worked for I believe is very high. PQ would you like to speculate?!!!

[dc9-32]

I didn't say I am so in the know. From research, I do know that salaries are not the best, but I also know they are not that bad. I do know that staff turn over is not the best but I wouldn't say it was any different from anywhere else to be honest. Staff turn over is rife in this industry and EBJ is no different. Netjets, now there's a stable company :confused:

How many companies have you worked for ?

Oh and by the way, I am not here to see this thread turn into a slagging match so lets all keep it on the straight and level. It's a debate for discussion.

Interesting that Sir Lee B´stard has not responded to anyone's input, be it good or bad.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/andy757/dc9.jpg

[African Drunk]

They have got a large turnover in staff but all have left for larger jets. Pay is average for C525 and you will build alot of hours.

[flybypilot]

Not all have gone to larger jets, a few are still flying the C525 and moved for better working conditions!

Sir Lee B'stard still hasnt responded???! PQ maybe?!

[Roja]

Anyone know the deal being offered for the EBJ Edinburgh job ?


Roja

[Sir Lee B´stard]

Neither a planted question, nor a parliamentary question. I apologise for my lack of participation but a family funeral and password finger trouble put this on the back burner. I must say that, as is so often the case with these pages, it generated more heat than light! That is with the exception of a PM for which I am grateful. Anyhow, thank you all for your input.

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

I had heard that EBJ were planning to offer out and out charters, as well as their current "hours" service?

Any truth to this?

[Deeko01]

well why not they are an AOC holder after all?

[African Drunk]

The original plan was fractional ownership but they seem to be doing more ac management. Understand the XLS job in egph was originally going to be egkb based.

[Roja]

HI !

Anyone had any news regarding interviews for the advertised EBJ jobs ?


Roja

[Hasher]

Check-out Flight Intenational... pay scales and the good stuff all there!

[tommoutrie]

I'm crew at EBJ. I get paid fairly well, do lots of flying (about 300hrs in 6 months), go to lots of different places (I've been to 52 different airports since I joined in February), and work with a good bunch of people. We recruit pilots with various levels of experience and there is no age profile that I'm aware of. Promotion is ability rather than longevity based so if you work hard and dont fly like a knob you will do well. Salaries start at around £24k for FO's rising to £28 with experience. Captains are on £55k. There are additional payments if you work days off. There is some staff turnover at EBJ and its true that pilots have left recently but its because this sector of the industry is expanding very quickly and job offers come in thick and fast once you have some experience. I'm fairly new at the company but if anyone wants to contact me about EBJ please feel free to email me - [email protected].

By the way - we're all in this business because we enjoy it. Lets not start rumours and point fingers at each other because its tough enough to make money in aviation. All of us are involved in business aviation our clients read these pages because they are in the public domain - how about we all agree not to say things that might put people off using private jets whichever company it is.

I'll answer any private emails about EBJ that aren't commercially sensitive because I'd rather do that than see the company I work for attacked for no reason.

Cheers all


Tom

[vref75]

They are a interesting company with both good and bad points. You will fly alot of hours because they are usually short of crew and this has meant various pilots have had enough. The Ops guy is a good bloke and without him the whole place would fall apart. The chief pilot is a bit strange he never flies for them only freelance for others and he has fallen out with quite a few of their ex pilots even trying to sue a couple. Progression is sometimes fast and sometimes not with preferrential treatment for some even when things have been promised. The t's and c's vary with one guy having his bond changed half way through type rating. Of the first 10 pilots only 3 will be there in a couple of months. Some of the line training is a bit strange with one captain breaking new pilots down before training, them a bit old school military pre CRM. The sales team is however very good.

[shed loads]

Good post Tom.

Many on here would do well to follow your words.

[dc9-32]

It's another fast growing company, and yes it probably has it's problems just like any other company. From what I know, they are addressing those problems unlike others who bury their heads in the sand. Growth problems can take time to sort, but so long as they follow any plans they have to implement new working methods etc, those problems will go away or at least reduce dramatically.

One good thing is that there is no shortage of clients will to take the EBJ brand, which in all fairness, is an excellent one and with more aircraft coming on line over the next few months, the flexibility will strengthen the whole operation. Mind you, is the CJ1 the right aircraft? It lacks range which in todays biz world, might go against them as more clients will want to go further afield without the need to stop en-route for some go-juice !

Someone on here mentioned "the ops guy". Which one, they do have more than one, in fact they have a small team all playing a part in the 7 day operation.

Off to do more research........


http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/andy757/dc9.jpg

[french_colibri]

Is any of you,dear pilots,knows anything about imperialjet?I will really appreciate if you could lighten me with some info about this company,please...I've been called for an interview in Dubai...and don't have any clue in what to expect.

Thanks alot.
xx

[french_colibri]

I wish someone could answer to my last post...MERCI

[checklist69]

french_colibri: This is the wrong thread, Monsieur.

[vref75]

dc9-32 would you like to clarify your connection to the company?

"From research, I do know that salaries are not the best" and "From what I know, they are addressing those problems " give the impression that you are not involved with ebj then you come out with:
"Not a disgruntled Universal Aviation employee are you" and "but so long as they follow any plans they have to implement new working methods etc" and "is no shortage of clients will to take the EBJ brand, which in all fairness, is an excellent one and with more aircraft coming on line over the next few months, the flexibility will strengthen the whole operation".

These are hardly the statements of a observer as you seem to know more than the pilots. I have not been able to find the info you talk about anywhere else in pprune so it would be good to find out how you know so much about the aircraft and new working methods.

[African Drunk]

dc9-32 I presume he means james.

french_colibri you will need to start a new thread on the topic of imperialjet that should get you more replies. Try this forum or the middle east.

AD

[Vanpilot]

Can any EBJ Pilots tell me where they fly from?

I understand the Aircraft are based arounf london. What would you expect as a normalish kind of week

All info welcome

cheers

[dc9-32]

Vref

I'm a consultant. Part of my work is to find out what's going on in the aviation world and to assist where or if I can. I carry out research on companies, ask questions etc.

In summary: I observe and listen.

Vanpilot

The aircraft are actually not based anywhere :D

[Grecian2000]

They charge as little as possible for the charter hours to make the planes fly....how effective that will be long term.....wait and see. Anyone remember 'cheap but busy' Greggair?.. same old story.

[WideBodiedEng]

Which really means, " I scab ideas from people who know more than me and put them forward as my own"
I find PQ OK (if we're talking about the same PQ <G>)

[dc9-32]

Widebodiedeng

You are way off the truth. I don't need to scab ideas from anyone. I don't need to. Anyway, back to the thread......lets keep it on track.

I don't actually think EBJ charter out their aircraft at present purely because they don't have the availability and that is caused by being too busy.

[Biggin Still]

dc9-32 would you like to clarify your connection to the company?

Dc9 seems to be a little shy, his "research" should be accurate as he does indeed work for EBJ and has done for some months.
Come on Mr walla, admit it?

[vref75]

dc9 I think it would be more correct to say no chartering due to no crew. The XLS has been around for 9 months and for most of that there has been 1 pilot and now there is another XLS there is another pilot so they get one aircraft each.

[Spam Up]

I wasnt aware that the XLS that is goin to be based at EHPH isnt the only one on the EBJ books.

Do they really have (operate) 2 XLS's ?

Spam Up

[Lembrado]

tommoutrie,


Please check your PM's.


Thanks. L.

[Lembrado]

Hi,

Does EBJ pay per diem?

How many night stops on an average 5 days on?


Thanks. L.

[blablablafly]

What fleet do these guys have after all? First a CJ fractional and now XLS's? I am confused...:confused:

[EI-CGO]

Oh dear, ther seems at time to be more 'consultants' than clients in GA !

Good little safe operation.

[Lembrado]

Hi Chaps,

OK here we go:


Simple question = simple answer.


Why does Pprune always descend into a slagging match nowadays?


Best regards. L.

[Flintstone]

Because it does you stupid, goggle-eyed, pog-faced, hunchbacked pig sty slopper outer.






;)








Your go.

[Chinchilla.612]

Lembrado,
Simple question = simple answer
Yes they pay per diem, and I reckon probably average 3 or 4 night stops per work cycle (but does vary, especially depending on whether you're an FO or Capt).

blablablafly,
Fleet very simply: CJ,CJ1 & CJ2 with some aircraft on Fractional, Charter, or Privately Owned. XLS's only private I think at this time.

Hope that helps ease the confusion,

Chinchilla.

[vref75]

The ops manager has now gone. I wonder if the turn over of pilots will be matched by ops?

[HomerSimpson]

Yes Mysterious cheques. Been promised now for 5 weeks. Its amazing how poor our post system is now since privatisation!:=:ugh:

[Pilot2/b]

vref75 unfortunately I expect so!

[Pilot2/b]

Has he!? :{ Keep the gossip coming!

[dc9-32]

What Chief Pilot :confused:

[whose ya daddy!]

Deputy Ops Guy resigned today???

Happy new year EBJ!?!
Will there be more.........
:ok:

[1Bingo]

I understand there are vacancies at EBJ?!

[African Drunk]

The chief pilot was not a chief pilot in the traditional sense. He was neither a post holder or involved in the operational side of the company. These are covered by the flight ops director who remains in place. For those confused by who was chief pilot his initials are PN.

[Euphoria]

One of our ac was in LSGS today and a ebj ac was impounded for not paying bills. I hear similar things have happened at LFLB and LFMN.

[long final]

Think PN has got out in time. Have overheard a number of unhappy conversations from crew over the last few months - all money related.

[twinjetter]

Euphoria

One of our aircraft was also at LSGS today, and I can only surmise that we also had an aircraft at both LFLB and LFMN on the days to which you elude. That being due singularly to me speaking from a position within EBJ.

I can therefore state with some authority that EBJ did not have an aircraft impounded today in LSGS; nor have we had such at LFLB or LFMN.

False "rumours" like impounded aircraft do companies such as EBJ no favours whatsoever. Your report may be based on what you consider to be good info; but let me say that your source is at best, simply mistaken.

We have a keen and professional core team working hard on eradicating the problems that bedevil many if not all small and young companies. Yes, we have issues outstanding; but the glee with which many on PPruNe clamour to embelish the seed of a negative story, no matter how fanciful, can quickly undo the efforts of many.

TWJ

[chiplight2005]

I tried to send an application to them, but the e-mail that I got from their website must be wrong as my e-mail bounced back. Has anyone got a name and/or e-mail address for me?

Cheers! :ok:

[tommoutrie]

you can send it to me - [email protected] and a copy to [email protected]

[vref75]

I believe the case at nice involved the biggest CJ client who was less than pleased at having to travel from cannes and then sat at nice to await the bill being paid.

[tommoutrie]

no thats not correct. I was captain on that flight. I forgot my company credit card and I paid for the fuel on my credit card and was immediately reimbursed. The airfield was Albecete and they dont have any other way to take for fuel.

I've kind of had enough of answering this kind of thing on PPrune and I dont appreciate it from people that dont reveal their identities. I work extremely hard for this company and I am starting to take these comments very seriously. This is a public forum - ten thousand people have viewed this thread. Any comment that is posted is subject to the uk libel laws (defamation act 1996) so please think carefully before you go to print.

happy new year all

Tom

[twinjetter]

Tom

Can I associate myself with your last comment; agree with you completely, very well put.

Steve

[vref75]

I hear that the FOD is telling everyone he sacked the last ops manager. This is strange as I heard he had resigned.

As for libel it only works for lies not the truth. I can name the pax, crew, date of the nice incedent and others.

The main point I hear is lack of credit cards. Tom/steve what % of the crews have credit cards?

[African Drunk]

Vref75
James resigned 3 months ago and after his notice period has moved to Hangar 8. I worked with james at EBJ and he was a great guy who worked very hard to get the company ops up and running and I am sure he will be sorely missed.
AD

[Pilot2/b]

Who are you guys you seem to know a lot about the company!? Scary! Yes James is/will be missed, I enjoyed working with him. :{ lol

Ade

[Martin Barnes]

nice post mate !

see you at an fbo somewhere

happy new year

[Hasher]

I have worked at EBJ for the last 6 months or so and I have got to say, they have been great, they kept their promises to me and I am enjoying the flying, people, training and the salary.

Am very bored of the negative stuff that is flying around. Every company has its issues and I can tell you that the two previous companies I have worked for have had far bigger issues that will not ever be resolved! We as a company are moving forward with a great bunch of committed individuals who can recognise the gains and benefits we will all enjoy as this company grows...

I go to work and I come home with a smile on my face, even when the F/Os have nicked all the handling sectors off me! It’s a good place to be and I am sure in another 6 months time we will have grown and changed yet again...
How about that for a company moving forward...

Hasher

[solent]

Have to say people can be right bastards, there are even people who replied on this thread in this last day hoping that they will fold so they can move in on there customers.

Give EBJ some slack, they are doing well and have issues but as another poster says there are other companies out there with bigger issues!!

And l dont even work for them!!

Good Luck Guys!

[Pilot2/b]

Well said you guys! Happy flying! :)

[francisscott]

I have two friends who have worked for EBJ and both have left because of the way EBJ had treated them. I heard from my friend that EBJ are unreliable as far as being payed on time if at all!
From the impression I got there are a few people who work for EBJ who are good people however there are a few others who can make your life difficult and have been the reason why people have left. They have lost a lot of pilots who have moved to other companies as other companies seem to offer better working conditions and pay.
For anyone who is thinking of working for EBJ beware!!

I have worked for a couple of companies in business aviation and I can say that from my experience and what I have heard about EBJ there are better companies out there to work for!!

[Pilot2/b]

Is it not time you guys just gave it a rest? I have always had my expenses paid and I have NEVER had any problems with being paid ontime including overtime.

Ade

[Pilotech]

I have had the pleasure of flying for EBJ for nearly a year now and I am really fed up with friends calling me up to answer idle bull :mad: manure that people are posting on this. Most of the people hear stuff from a 'friend of a friend' just plainly embelished cos it makes a good story! Give it a rest !

Any company that grows quickly, aviation or otherwise, is going to have operational and financial issues but we are coping admirably.

We all have company credit cards! I have never had a problem getting my expenses! I have never had a problem getting paid! I am not looking for another job!

We have a great bunch of Pilots who work hard and to a high standard matched only by the devotion of our Ops guys. Any company will have a turnover of staff. It is not as high as should be believed by the :mad: spoken of in here. Grass is always greener I guess.

Can I ask that can we stick to the original question and not continue with this prolific abuse! What about spreading some of the nicer rumours about how many aircraft we have on the way, how many pilots we are recruiting etc....

God bless EBJ and all who sail in her!!! [ok, maybe gone a bit far now!]

T:ok:

[Andy Howel]

I used to work there and it was very exciting.:D

[busjetbob]

Firstly, lets look at the critisim, and see if we can justify this.
In this current climate, there is an abundance of jobs out there.
So when new pilots use companies such as EBJ, then go on to another company, as soon as EBJ has Given them a start. Then to slag them off, after being with them for all of five min's, seems to me to be a little harsh.
One thing that EBJ show's, is a willingness to invest in people. Which is a good thing, as some of these whingers, wouldn't get a foot in the door.
Myself Who speak to there customers on a regular basis, get nothing but good feedback from them. So what is going wrong? Nothing i would suggest. Like any company, which undergoes such a rapid growth, is liable to some degree of critisism. But in aviation you can only increase rescourses, when things actualy happen.

I think we should all be encouraging, and not slagging these companies off, as any damage done by miss conception, would inevitably effect us all. Not to mention all our future job prospects,

Oh and rumours, as with chinese whispers, get out of control. Next time your told anything about a company, Listen to the majority, that post there responses on pprune, with positive feedback. :mad:ss wipes

[Andy Howel]

Ok, it was exciting for five minutes, literally. Get your facts straight or stay off the internet, simple choice really. If you are going to comment in such an emotional way perhaps you should use your real name. Anyway, I think I know who you are. If I was to judge you by your spelling and grammar, I would either go for the bloke who hoovers the aircraft or the director of flight operations.

Ahem. :mad:ss wipe.

P.S. Take your own advice and listen to the majority.

[navoff]

I think he is trying be positive about the company??

[busjetbob]

:ugh:


Don't critisize my grammar or spelling, when you obviously can't read?
I was trying to defend them, or have you switched opinion? :ugh:

Happy new year

[mildly amused]

Fancy seeing you here Andy !

Is the Bar shut !

[Andy Howel]

No change of opinion.

The bar is very much open.:=

Who is miss conception? She sounds exciting.

Hurrah.

[African Drunk]

I think she is easy to get pregnant

[Alpha Foxtrot]

Only if you don't use protection :)

Anyway, getting back to EBJ...

[Grecian2000]

EBJ fleet spare capacity is being heavily marketed right now which possibly indicates 3 things?

1. sales are more organised in 2008
2. they are not as complacent as they used to be
3. pressure on from above?

as they are a plc their financials are public knowledge for those who are interested.

[Steak&Kidney_Pie]

For such a "great" company, there are sure some interesting comments flying around on here, from various people. If it was all roses then no-one would post on here. It's about the rough with the smooth. I know several guys who are happy, others which aren't. Each to their own. I wish everyone happy flying :ok:

[V12]

I see that the EBJ chairman in the interim accounts of Dec07 states that he is 'disappointed' that the 2006 interim loss of £683,000 is now a £553,000 loss in 2007. And that's just for 6 months. So in the private jet industry's biggest boom period ever, they are still losing £1m a year. Long way to go.

[Euphoria]

You don't get to 5 pages on the biz jet forum unless something unusual is happening at a company. Looks similar to Gregg Air in the final days.

[vref75]

The start up plan was a loss for 3 years. This was based on fractional ownership. That most of the aircraft are now managed for owners not fractional should that not mean most costs are covered by management fees so where are the losses from?

[African Drunk]

I used to work for EBJ. I left a year ago and work for another biz jet operator and so I can say I am both independant and have knowledge about the company.

There have been one or two problems at EBJ but most have been resolved and others are still being worked on and should soon be resolved. When I joined the flight ops director said it would be a good company for getting on in biz jets and if you see how well the ex-pilots have done he has been proved correct. I still believe it is a good company to join and with the XLS's there is a good progression in ac.

As for the losses, I was told when I joined that the business plan was for losses in the first 3 years (similar to netjets) and I believe they are improving each year in occordance to that plan. They would not be in a position for the new ac if not.

[Arkwright]

Is that the same NetJets that is STILL unable to turn in a profit....... after.....how many years??

[robash]

best of luck to EBJ, netjets europe have been able sustain losses in excess of 10 years due to the huge backing they have from nj US and Mr Buffet - anyone else following the same business plan must have kahunas of steel..!

[blablablafly]

Is that the same NetJets that is STILL unable to turn in a profit....... after.....how many years??


No that is a different NetJets, as NJE have been profitable for two years in Europe. Time to start to read the papers? :p

[RAPA Pilot]

OK you lot,
I've read all this tread and am none the wiser.
I am looking for a new job so is EBJ worth a punt or not?
I'll put it to the vote. Reply either Yes or No.
So I lay my future at your toes and by your vote I shall abide:\

Col....

[Arkwright]

RAPA Pilot,

If you haven't yet got a jet job, then go for it, treat it as experience.

If you have already got a jet job, then I wouldn't bother, there are far better operators out there, all looking for crew......

[twinjetter]

RAPA Pilot

Yes - give us a try, you might be pleasantly surprised.

[graham stephenson]

They seem to have a bad reputation for paying their pilots on time

[Andy Baker]

The dead wood is gone so the futures bright to purple.





Rest of this post has been recycled. Advertising rates are reasonable on PPRuNe, just click on the link.


Duck
Moderator

[Pilot2/b]

Just leave it out and stop moaning! Getting really bored of it now!

Thanks Ade!

[V-PJ]

Do EBJ take on low-hours people? I dropped in a CV a while ago but no joy so far; same lack of response from some of the other biz jet companies. Should I take the hint?! I'm willing to pay to be type-rated to give me a chance of getting my foot in the door.

Regards,

V-PJ

[ExcelXLS Driver]

Hi,

I have read all your posts with interest. I know a few of the names being thrown about and I would like to add my comments.

I used to work for EBJ flying the Citation XLS in Edinburgh and Guernsey. I was offered a permanent position but turned it down because I was being messed about, they got my name wrong on the contract, no one would give me a straight answer and I never got paid on time.

From what I know EBJ operate a CJ fleet and two XLS which are privately owned. One of the XLS is based at Edinburgh and the other is in Guernsey. At the time I was there they were talking about putting the XLS to work on charter operations but as I have not been there for a few months so I don't know if this is still the case.
My salary offer on the XLS as an FO was £28000 with £30 per diem for each duty day. I turned down the offer due to all the problems I was having with EBJ. Some of these problems were;
They only paid freelance pilots, which I was at the time, by cheque when other companies, paid by bank transfer. Even when I asked them to transfer my pay into my bank due to the pending mail strike they still sent it by mail, so as I was only working a few days per week the money I received was never enough to cover all my bills and expenses so I was unable to work at that time until I received my cheque and the funds cleared in my account. This did happen on another occasion and one of the chaps in opps paid for a hire car so that I could position to Biggin Hill.
I never received money on time and it took over 4 weeks at times have my expenses reimbursed, even though when I joined the company I was told that there had been a problem paying people on time but they promised that I would be paid on time.
£30 per diem is a little low most companies will have a maximum of £50 per overnight duty period, £10 for breakfast, £30 for lunch and £40, for dinner if returning home in the evening, or an increase to £50 for staying overnight.
Also as there was not enough crew to operate one XLS there was no stable roster and you would be expected to work your days off if you were asked to, which seems to still happen today.

A little information for people interested in the XLS operation.
On the XLS based in Edinburgh I flew to the following destinations. Biggin Hill to Edinburgh, Edinburgh to Biggin Hill, Venice and Dublin. The Venice and Dublin trips were one offs at the time!
The XLS in Guernsey flew to a few more destinations, Exeter, RAF Shawbury, Manchester, Bournemouth and Southampton

Would I recommend anyone to work for EBJ, the answer is no!

They do have a large staff turnover and a lot of pilots are unhappy with EBJ.
They do have a bad reputation in the industry. I know people who still work for EBJ and the problems with EBJ are ongoing.
EBJ remains the only company that I have worked for who won’t always pay for the hotel room, but will reimburse the costs later.
Their roster is not stable and they do not have enough crew per aircraft to have a stable roster.
EBJ management are still making promises that either they know that can’t keep or just don’t care as long as they have pilots available.
The XLS job in Guernsey has been advertised for a long time so it tells me that either people who have 1000hrs won’t touch EBJ, or they can get a better deal elsewhere.

For the time being EBJ seems to be an unstable company and would be a company to avoid at the moment.

The above information is from my experience of the company as well as other pilots I know, who have shared their frustration with me.

If you just need to build your hours and don’t care about the above statement then apply to EBJ.
They might take low hours pilots as long as you have a type rating.

I hope this has brought some light on this subject.

I left EBJ out of choice and I have now been paid in full. I hope that they take on board what has been said and do something about it, but that might just be wishful thinking!

[silverhawk]

'unable to work until the cheque cleared in my account'

What does that mean?

Why UNABLE to work?

Once you left, all outstanding monies were paid, so where is your gripe exactly?

Good luck to you and your future employers.

[Chippie Chappie]

Silverhawk, some people have the idea that if they don't get paid, they don't fly. I interpreted "unable to work" as "not willing to work...until I get paid". Can happen if people do not trust the person making the payments.

Once you left, all outstanding monies were paid, so where is your gripe exactly?

To me, ExcelXLS Driver's comments came across as fairly balanced and disillusioned without being too venemous. But then, I'm not feeling defensive about EBJ :E

[ExcelXLS Driver]

Hi Silverhawk,

To explain my comment on being unable to work until my cheque cleared meant that I did not have the available funds to allow me to get to work and pay for fuel to get to the airport, parking which can be expensive, food when away from home and emergency funds should 1 day turn to 2 days work. I was based in Exeter so that I could position to Guernsey or Edinburgh on Flybe. I did have to drive to London on a few occasions and this did cost a few quid. Return trip in my car to Biggin Hill was about £100, plus I had to pay another £120 to drive to Cambridge for a 1 hour meeting with Mr PQ. When I drove to Farnborough to have an interview with TAG they reimbursed me the money I had spent on fuel to get there.

I am not out to say anything malicious towards EBJ or anyone, just what I have experienced and heard. I do not have any hard feelings about leaving, I was just a little disappointed and frustrated with what was happening. Some people in EBJ were very helpful and supportive, and I hope other people will have a better experience working for them.

From reading Flight international today EBJ are looking for an FO on a Falcon 2000LX and a FO for a Mustang in Dublin. They are paying 50,000 euros on the Falcon and 30,000 euros on the Mustang. EBJ will be managing these aircraft and they are operating them privately.

If anyone working for EBJ at the moment on the XLS fleet reads my post and thinks that it is now not entirely accurate I would appreciate a response or a private message.

[Flyer2008]

Is PQ still there !!

I hear as well that they just lost a CJ2 they were operating for a owner.:bored:

Its not just crew leaving but now a CJ2 has gone ... what next !

[Chinchilla.612]

Hi there, Just to answer a couple of questions,

Flyer 2008,
Yes, PQ is still with EBJ.
And also yes, the privately owned CJ2 has been handed over to another operator to look after due to a number of factors on both sides.
But as the company has taken on an extra CJ2, 2 more CJ1's and a CJ2+ in the last couple of months, I for one am not at all concerned by this change. Especially as the new aircraft are being operated fully rather than only for an owner. Also as previously stated there are other new aircraft coming all the time. So yes....one out and lots in!

ExcelXLS Driver,
Can't comment on the XLS fleet as I'm on the CJ's, but I've been with the company since last summer and although there have been a couple of minor hickups with my expenses I have been (and still am) very happy working with them. I should also say that those problems were all experienced just after I joined last summer and everything has run smoothly with my pay and expenses for quite a few months now. As for hotel rooms.....only ever had to put them on my own card once (before I got a company card), they normally go on the company card or are paid for by the company.

Despite what some people have written on here, from my own experience of EBJ, yes I would recommend them as an employer to any of my friends.

Hope that helps answer some of the recent queries.

[Euphoria]

Chinchilla.612 word on the street has it that last month most credit cards were out of credit.

[dc9-32]

word on the street has it that last month most credit cards were out of credit. Yesterday 22:57

Not the first month either ! How can you run a company on credit cards ? Credit limits are reached very quickly and unless you can clear them, you have to stop using them !!!

[mrskytec]

Cards provide cashflow/lifeblood in a new organisation; also offer flexibility for an operation which uses a variety of agents and third parties. Agree, not a long term solution (eventually seek a balance between cards/contracts and credit terms (which are like cards anyway!)), but I gather that the providers of these cards are happy in providing credit in return for for the Company's frequent clear-down, and where this is in the case, it provides for a slicker operation by the day.

[Jetscream 32]

So its your first post and you come up with a question like that.....!!!!! mmm let me think....??

Well there is a simple answer which will be better than any rumour on here... and that is to punch EBJ into the LSE website being as its a publicly traded company....... and having just checked - it must be a rumour as NO notification has been given to RNS..... and there is no suspension of shares pending your announcement...... but if GD has done a deal and not told the LSE then it's off to jail time..... but somehow - naah!! dont think so - just a rumour!!! the guys from Sentient were interested but even they like everyone else is having their problems with the price of oil and general feeling towards extravagance in a highly saturated market.....!! :ugh:

[dc9-32]

Am I missing something here or has the post before Jetscreams last been removed ??

EBJ and cash flow problems. Now thats something to discuss.......

[shed loads]

DC,

I believe the missing post was: "Is it true EBJ has been sold?"

As to your point, maybe there is, maybe there isn't. But either way perhaps any discussion is best had in private amongst those directly involved.

After all this is a rumour network NOT a speculation network; a subtle but important distinction.

[Duck Rogers]

The poster removed his own thread. Twasn't me.



Duck

[dc9-32]

EBJ has not been sold. The would-be purchaser decided against it citing nothing worth purchasing.

Time will tell......

[fearofflying]

European Business Jets Rejects Takeover Approaches

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601209&sid=ab8QjM57.TCo&refer=transportation

[Jetscream 32]

But that was last June....! the relevance???? ZERO - the share price unchanged in the year since and like others said - Sentient walked away and and GD is franticallly trying to get things back on track by chasing other money but spending more time chasing his own tail - at some point he will recognise that he is not a threat to NJE even tho he used to work for them.... he needs help and a lot of it - but he is far to stubborn to listen and far to emabarassed at what the due diligence keeps throwing up...! :ugh:

[Spam Up]

Hi


So ! who's gonna put money into EBJ then ???????

Good investment ??????????????

Spam Up

[fearofflying]

They have grown and expanded since rejecting those takeover offers and still seem to be the focus of a lot of interest either from people trying to buy them or people who are worried about how well they are doing and feel the need to be so vocal about any possible negatives. As for the share price. Well all share prices have fallen over the period including that of Air Partner and thats the nature of being a public company.

I am sure the value of Netjets share would have fallen also if it was a public company during recent stock market events. The shares in Berkshire Hathaway have fallen themelves!

The fact remains that EBJ and its continued expansion is becoming the focus of a lot of interest.

[hawker750]

just click on their website, click investors, click financial information.
loosing £20K/week up to September 07. No info since then

[flybypilot]

In their business model does anyone know after how long they expected to turn a profit? £20k/week isn't a small lose even if it is out of date!

FBP!

[fearofflying]

How long was Netjets losing money! I would also point to some very relevant points in the last interim results in which they said are meeting their sales targets and the pretax loss, albeit fractionally, actually narrowed. This was also "While the turnover stated is below that of the comparative period, this is misleading in so far as it reflects the timing of the transfer of aircraft to the owners of fractional shares rather than the underlying sale of fractions themselves". The results were also affected it seems by "operational reasons, primarily a requirement to charter aircraft as a result of increased sales rather than flying clients in owned aircraft"

I also noted that they continue to expand the fleet and from looking at the new EBJ website they are now offering CJ1s, CJ2s and now the XLS both on fractionals and hours at prices which are below Netjets and Air Partner. I also noted in the last results they quoted "remain optimistic about the future demand for our range of products, and with
fractional sales, card sales and revenue from managed aircraft improving we look to the future with increasing confidence"

I have also noted some major shareholders increasing their stakes so I suspect they are happy with the progress and happy to support them.

[robash]

fearofflying - just a random observation from afar but I think you may be clutching at straws to say that netjets lost money for many years and that is therefore a recipe for success.

Netjets is backed by Mr Warren Buffett - aka richest man in the world - EBJ isnt.

[woodcoc2000]

If i listened to all the people saying stay away from this or that company on pprune, i would be staying away from all of them! While i dont work for EBJ i hope to.. I have met a few of their crew including one of their pilot/managers and i can tell you they seem to be very content and nice people to be around.

I dont know the truth about take over rumours but they are not neccasarily bad things.. A lot of the time more money is put in as are experienced people. My point is people shouldnt point and shreik that EBJ has been approached for purpose of sale; thats business.

Never mind the nay sayers, i for one would love a crack at flying their aircraft..

[fearofflying]

I said even an operation like Netjets lost money for years. I also never claimed that EBJ was looking or trying to be as big as Netjets but rather carve out its own market aimed a more price concious clients which it seems to be doing very successfully. These businesses take scale and time to build that scale and according to newsflow from EBJ they are on track to meet their targets and would have the had the backing in place before IPO to support them through to profitibility. Its well known that NetJets Europe ran cumulative losses of $212 million in its first 10 years of operation!

I would also say to you that EBJ might not be backed by Warren Buffet but according the many shareholder disclosures they do seem to be backed by some wealthy individuals.

I really do get the feeling that a lot of people on here are very nervous about how well EBJ are doing and therefore feel the need to be so vocal on their negatives when the reality is they have a lot more positives about them.

[robash]

point taken FoF - I'm certainly not saying EBJ are trying to be the size of netjets or that they are planning on making large losses for years and years - merely that they are not in the fantastic position of being able to dig into their considerable pockets of the richest man in the world.

I know who the shareholders at EBJ are and yes, they are very wealthy people, but bottomless pits they are not.

Best of luck to them all. :ok:

[plinkton]

Can anyone update us on how EBJ are doing now?

[plinkton]

I'll take it that they are quiet then...

[x933]

G-OXLS was hemmed in to the Cessna display stand at EGLF today - availability isn't good either so they must be doing something right...

[Grecian2000]

the other XLS is/has been tech, tailplane damage in flight due to an insecure engine panel allegedly. not sure if its back in the air yet

so if you have one XLS on the Farnborough static display and one in the maint' shop yes that does affect avail...but it doesnt make you any money.....!! its called being grounded.........

[twinjetter]

Grecian2000 - or perhaps it's called...erm........demurrage?

Don't think for a second that Cessna get owners to hand over their pride and joy for a week on a static with just a promise that their next purchase will come with a couple of free Cessna bomber-jackets thrown in?:)

Rope, money, for, and old.

TWJ

[x933]

5 days of daily minimums - at the least - with no fuel costs at all? Okay, lost revenue from charters but I daresay that that would be worth more than any charter revenue. Charter it in there, Charter it back out, take a weeks leave while you've got no aircraft available and your home and dry...

[Grecian2000]

Ah yes indeed, demurrage, but Farnborough comes but once every 2 years.....and only last 5 days.

Having an aircraft sitting on static once in a while is hardly a long term business plan.... or a sign of "doing something right" as was previously stated.... more a sign of..."this was negotiated as part of the aircraft purchase agreement....take what you can get....it wont need us to crew it...and its easier than selling charter....."

most other charter operators are out flying this time of year...its the conventional way of making money out of a charter operation......

[cldrvr]

I think it is a clever move by EBJ, a FAB stand is expensive. They got one paid for, their a/c paid for and a great Marketing/PR tool for a week for free. Invite brokers, potential customers and investors. If they planned this right they could have generated more business in one week talking then they could have flying.

[flybypilot]

There is such a mix of opinion here. However how does a post get so long if its all boll&%s in the first place? Seems to me that something must be wrong to generate this much heat. How long can it last?

[flyer101]

As someone who is very interested in charter/fractional flying, I too am very interested in finding out what is going on with regards to employment and future plans for EBJ.

I think any new company; especially one involved in the aviation industry with have its teething problems. But from what I can gather so far, these problems are appreciated by the management and are being dealt with in order to further smooth their operation. I think being part of a new, growing and potentially very successful company is a very appealing prospect, especially for someone like myself. So... any further insight would be greatly appreciated... :)

[tommoutrie]

we're not that new - it just seems to be the case that any problem we have gets paraded around on here. I dont think we have any more problems right now than anyone else in this bit of the market namely, it would be cheaper to fill the aeroplanes up with gold than fuel, our customers are constantly being offered great deals by our competitors (unsustainable, but great for now), and airports in europe seem to think that it should cost less to dock a cross channel ferry than a bloody CJ.

other than that, everything is peachy!!

[flyer101]

The issues sound pretty standard then! It's a shame that the factors affecting the business are the ones that no-one can do anything about! Frustrating i can imagine.

Tom, sent you a PM. Not sure if its working though; been having some network problems here recently. For some reason our internet access goes crazy when it rains!?! :confused:

[Hasher]

Well,
EBJ must be doing something right! I've just come back off my second type rating with them in 12 months... It's all good from where I am standing, very happy, we are moving onwards and upwards.

Hasher

[No RYR for me]

Does it means you fly two types or that you changed fleets?

[Hasher]

I am of the understanding that after so many hours I will be on both fleets.

All good as far as I am concerned.

[Hasher]

Don't worry yourself mate I would not employ you with that attitude!

[flybypilot]

Maybe we need a new website:

www. PPBN.com

Professional pilots bitching network!!!

To the point guys, whats going on with EBJ?

[ABO944]

Maybe we need a new website:

www. PPBN.com

Professional pilots bitching network!!!



Isn't that what this website is all about ? :}

[Phil Brockwell]

Flyby,

Getting back to the point, the year end accounts should be published this week, they should stop all the speculation, I'm sure it is a more accurate measure of performance than the number of type ratings done.

Let's just wait and see what the financials say before we decide how brilliant / awful they are.

Phil

[flybypilot]

Well said Phil, cheers! Will play it by ear!!

[theWings]

Extract of a statement from EBJ Top Brass:

Aircraft sold in fractional shares to clients are owned by Limited Liability Partnerships ("LLPs") with the fractional owners as partners, and managed by EBJ. In accordance with procedures established previously these LLPs had not been consolidated in the Financial Statements. On 30 September Baker Tilley informed the Directors that they had formed the opinion that these LLPs should be included in the Consolidated Financial Statements, on the basis that the LLPs are managed by EBJ.

Under these circumstances the Directors have agreed to prepare audited accounts for these LLPs and to include them in EBJ's Consolidated Financial Statements. These changes are estimated to take approximately three weeks to complete.

Under these circumstances the Company's shares are being suspended from trading under AIM Rule 19 until such time as the revised Financial Statements can be sent to shareholders.


Don't think the suspension is a bad thing in itself and, to be fair, protects investors. But, especially while other rumours abound, it's not a pretty picture and probably worth waiting before handing in your notice to go and fly for them....

[TSandPSintheGREEN]

Getting back to the point, the year end accounts should be published this week, they should stop all the speculation, I'm sure it is a more accurate measure of performance than the number of type ratings done.

So - any news? ANybody seen the accounts? EBJ still in business?

[silverhawk]

The delay was down to the accountants. They have published a statement to that effect and apologised.

EBJ were simply let down by a third party supplier.

[Euphoria]

I understand they have been making redundancies doesn't look good. Also why have they got the CAA in their today having a meeting with all the postholders?

[EI-CGO]

Its not unusual to have a meeting with your FOI. In fact with some FOI's its so hard to get a hold of them maybe they were throwing a party!!

Seriously, could have been many many reasons, none need be sinister.

[southernjetflyer]

New on here and was very keen to run through the latest messages about EBJ as I recently sent them a CV

Question ..............

Anyone know why CJ1 G-OEBJ and CJ2 G-EEBJ are both for sale. Both aircraft hit the market the same day. G-OEBJ is shown as owned by EBJ themselves but G-EEBJ is run by EBJ but is owned by one of there investors so I believe.

mmm wonder whats going on or anyone can throw light on the situation.

According to one of my sources I hear both were sold to them by the same UK dealer or broker but I dont know who. Not sure if they are selling them again or not though.

Thoughts ????

[Phil Brockwell]

It's not always a sign of a problem, we had rumours running about our imminent demise when we had a couple of Senecas and a Kingair for sale. The reality was the Senecas were for sale to roll the cash in them into a CJ and the Kingair owner was upgrading to a CJ2.

Airframes are a commodity, if you don't have the demand or can get a better return on a different airframe type you just roll the equity into something that your company does need, like cashflow or a different type.

The accounts are out next week, this may well just be retrenching to deal with the changes in the current financial market, smart business' will be reducing debt and overhead, it's the ones that are increasing debt and overhead I'd be more worried about.

This may be a situation of smoke without fire, or we may find out next week that there's an inferno, let's wait to see shall we, if losses have increased in line with turnover then it becomes obvious that the model does not work, however if a company doubles turnover and has cashflow problems then they are just like every other growing business in the world.

[African Drunk]

Are those 2 aircraft not part of the fractional program?

[dc9-32]

Yes they are in the fractional program.

EICGO - I heard there were more than one FOI's visiting. Something is not right here and for the sake of the employees, and there are some cracking ones, I hope it pans out but I'm not sure the money men will pour funds in forever.....:ugh:

[Euphoria]

Does anyone know when these accounts will finally be produced. Interesting to note that whilst the rest of the market is dropping like a teenagers bo**ocks, they have maintained a steady mid 90p. All a little odd, especially the fact that the accounts issues were only recognised on the day they were due to be submitted.

If memory serves, Monday will be the 3 week mark since shares were suspended. I can only assume that if they are not made public on Monday, dark days lie ahead.

I would love to stand corrected as it is never nice to see other pilots lose their jobs, especially the way things are at present.

[Euphoria]

Monday is here. Do we finally have accounts? Seems not.

[Phil Brockwell]

Euphoria,

Share trading was suspended, this means that they are not being traded, therefore no share price - if you can't buy or sell them they have no value.

Am I not right in thinking that the .9 share price is just under a penny, not a pound?

I can't he;lp thinking it a bit premature to expect the accounts to be out by 08:04!

Phil

[littco]

Just out of interest is EBJ listed on the AIM stock market?

Only reason I ask is that the price quoted on AIM will be the value of the last trade. I would also imagine with a small company like EBJ that a very large number of the shares are owned by owners, employees or close members of both. As I doubt they would sell their shares the price will remain fixed regardless of how the company is doing, Thus suspension can occur.

[African Drunk]

I have just heard they went under 10 mins ago. Anyone got more info?

[mrskytec]

I think they've closed the doors for good.

[Arkwright]

CJ2 mate of mine got a call on his mobile whilst in the aircraft and told not to get airborne from Biggin Hill at 1700 local.

EBJ obviously hung on as long as they could......just hope they manage to pay the outstanding expenses owed to almost all their crew.

The very best of luck to all their loyal crew now looking for work.

Arkwright.

[southernjetflyer]

Anyone any knowledge of who the chosen Administrators are ???

[twinjetter]

Operations were indeed suspended today.

I'm sure there's more mileage in this story yet; but hijacking the thread slightly, if anyone has any vacancies for good Bizjet staff (both in the air and on the ground), now's the time to step forward.

PM me and I'll pass on as appropriate.

Great to work with all of you - I really truely mean it.

Steve Finch
Operations Manager
European Business Jets
(I'll miss that sign-off)

[flexy]

Steve - Send me a PM...

[Flintstone]

Steve.

PM on it's way to you. I have a cunning plan, PQ has my phone number.

[vickipet25]

I'd just like to wish all the ground staff and aircrew of EBJ the best of luck they have all been truely professional to the end best of luck guys and girls.

Any OP's jobs PM me.

[Pilot2/b]

To all my friends,

Thanks for the great laughs and good times at EBJ! Your all a good bunch of people and I will truely miss you all.

Halfway through a Pilot Sponsorship which is no longer! Can anybody help??!!

Thanks guys Adrian

[Chinchilla.612]

Anyone know of any jobs going for CJ flight crew?

Direct answer on here, or PM welcome.

Cheers.

[mrskytec]

It's been a hell of a journey, but I will miss it. This has been a complete shock; despite all the signs, I thought we were doing the right things and it would pull through. We've all been working very hard and it was becoming a very professional operation.

Still hanging on in there to see what happens now, but in keeping with the survival instinct- job prospects welcome:

Nick Ross
Deputy Quality Manager
European Business Jets!

[Hasher]

Hi All
I have a CJ and an XLS rating, CRMI Line, C of A test pilot authority, need a job to feed an 5 month old boy! Willing to freelance as well as settle in to the right job, got a CV to send if anyone wants it?

Lots of love
PM's very welcome
Hasher

[Duck Rogers]

Sad news indeed. To avoid people's details getting lost can I suggest making use of the stickied thread at the top of the forum? As I've said before I will only cull posts there after two or three months. Anything posted here will inevitably drift downward.

Good luck all.

[tommoutrie]

It is now!!

Look on the bright side. Most of us came in with not much experience and have moved our careers on an awful lot. Personally, I've had a great laugh and got an awful lot out of EBJ.

Ride it out - weak management, poor cash control, and a particularly poor economic situation caused this collapse but it won't last forever. Keep flying if you can but if you have to take a break, do something useful so that when the economy picks up you can show employers that you're not a pillock. If anyone wants a chat, I'm on my personal number 07916 134536.

One good thing has come out of all this - I've shredded that bloody purple tie!

Lots of love

Tom

[coefficientoflift]

Big shame about EBJ,

Hope all you crewed her fleet and offices get sorted out in quick time...

C of L

[TSandPSintheGREEN]

See that GOROO still flying today - EGKB - EGPH... Positioning for good?

[HS-125]

Was G-OROO operated by EBJ or owned? Maybe it was positioning to another airfirled from request of the owners?

[African Drunk]

If the company is kaput on who's Insurance, CAM and RVSM are they flying?

[Phil Brockwell]

The company is in administration isn't it

[twinjetter]

Administration?....in a word - dunno.

Seem to be in limbo-land at the moment. Any hard facts appreciated.

Best regards, one confused EBJ Ops Manager sat at home with LOTs of conflicting and confusing info.

[cambioso]

Dear EBJ staff,
I'm so sorry and sad to hear about your demise. I know how you all worked so hard, continuously, to keep going in such difficult times.
It was always a pleasure to work with you all (Ops and crew) when I "starred"(?!) for you occasionally.
Rest assured that good guys are never out of a job for long in our Bizjet world......and you are all good guys!!
If there is anything that I can do, or help with (references etc) please don't hesitate to call or PM me.
Best wishes, and the very best of luck,
Jeremy Cooke

[Flyer2008]

HS-125,

G-OROO is not owned by EBJ was only operated by them.

[merlinxx]

Good luck chaps & chapesses. Tomorrow is another day, as they say "same sh*te, different day". Allot of us have been there, but we're still around. Keep the faith:ok:

[Flintstone]

Hopefully those of you going to Heathrow on Sunday will come away with some good news.

[Pilot Positive]

Truly sorry to hear about the demise of EBJ - you guys were a good bunch of blokes.

If I can help in any way possible I will post here for you.

Onwards and upwards :ok:



Pilot Positive

[Hasher]

Wow, how wrong was I!?
Thought we had problems and was always told it was going to be alright!
Funny old world, this is the third company I have worked for which has gone under... Ace Aviation, Club 328 and...

Still this has opened a few doors for the ex pilots and ops staff, onwards and upwards...


Good luck everyone

Paul

[tommoutrie]

its you - you're the ******* jinx!

love you man..

tell you what - we all feel a bit screwed over but you want to speak to some of the clients! I spoke to one earlier and guess which of the seven dwarfs he was...

I'll give you a clue..

he wasn't happy..

[Phil Brockwell]

Tom,

I'm guessing he was Dopey if he paid up front?

Phil

[Hasher]

Very funny Vic.
;)

[Chinchilla.612]

Tom,

So he wasn't "Happy", but might have been "Dopey"?

Sure he wasn't the often forgotten 8th Dwarf..."Been screwed overly" ?!

Any updates mate?

Phil.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Zia

Not having a go at you per se, hope all you ebj'ers get sorted as soon as possible, but you know as well as I do that your last post is wrong and a little naive however right or wrong that particular comment is....

Good luck with the future

[Duck Rogers]

Ladies and gentlemen, this is a public announcement.

Feelings are running high which is perfectly understandable. If the allegations of non-payment of salaries and 'stringing along' of employees are true then someone owes you all an explanation, preferably accompanied by a few cheques.

Some of you clearly need to vent your spleens, better out than in and all that. While this is great for your blood pressure the personal comments need to be kept in check and I would ask those of you who have named and shamed to revisit your posts and reconsider them if only for my benefit as I am the one who will be asked to justify them if the lawyers come knocking. I could of course just edit them but nobody likes a bully ;)

Many thanks.

Duck.

[Arkwright]

Facebook group? Either I'm going mad, or its been removed.........
Can anyone help with a link please?

[Arkwright]

Surprised its been removed.......it's not like the posters could be sacked like the Virgin crew have been! :}

Still, if there were libelous posts, probably best to remove it from the public domain.......

How are you CJ pilots doing? How many of you are likely to end up at Bjets?

[JonDyer]

We made the Facebook group private because it is a forum for us to share information that may (or may not) lead to action against the former directors of EBJ.

We don't feel comfortable being used as public entertainment.

It is a deeply frustrating and depressing business to have an employer crash and burn when the whole world is facing financial hardship. We, the employees, worked bloody hard for that company. If our manager and the directors hadn't been so offensively arrogant and comprehensively unlikeable then many of us would have probably have gone on working for nothing. Most of the 48 staff are still unemployed.

We wouldn't work for them because we pleaded with them for the best part of a year to listen to us and they ignored us and continued driving the company into the ground. They borrowed money from employees and ordinary creditors alike. Their response when asked to return it was essentially- put up with it or leave. They bounced cheques on suppliers and employees indiscriminately -they simply did not care. At the point we were told it was over - the bailiffs were only days away - they hadn't even bothered to pay the rent on our offices - they owed back rent of about £40,000.

Now Deary has gone to ground and Messer and Quigley are hawking the remnants of their fleet to other AOC holders (one of whom is a convicted fraudster himself) hoping for a chance to repeat the whole shabby scheme again.

They are fools - and we in our turn were fools for letting them fool us.

We have no desire to be a spectacle any further.

If you have something useful to contribute, PM me and we'll talk.

Jon

[dc9-32]

They are still running - but they can't hide forever :mad:

[JonDyer]

As I said on the other thread: the reason that people like these are able to thrive in this industry is that employees fear the consequences of speaking out.

My background is from the Building Industry, where as everyone knows, there are a fair number of cowboys. No one fears them, they operate on the margins, the majority of people in the industry would be happy to see them driven out.

In aviation we hide behind anonymity - concerned about the apparent 'reach' of people who merit no such fear or respect. Two of the three I am talking about were sacked from previous positions - and the other one has no previous experience. They are nobodies and nothing to fear - and they have proved that by the inept and amateurish manner in which they burned through £6m in three years.

DC - I know you, and I'm sure you have your reasons for staying as DC - but you've got a lot of useful information locked behind that pseudonym that could help ensure that these individuals can't find work in this industry. It's evident that lots of people contributing to Pprune have met them before and yet still they can find finance and opportunities.

Surely it's time they were stopped?

I know 45 people, all at least £2000 out of pocket, that would agree with me, and I have a list of other creditors that runs to over £1 million that might take a slightly tougher line.

Things are difficult enough at the moment in this industry without these three taking part of what little investment there is and sacrificing it to their seemingly boundless vanity and ego.

[dc9-32]

JonDyer

".....but you've got a lot of useful information locked behind that pseudonym that could help ensure that these individuals can't find work in this industry...."

Do you need anything from me or shall I just observe :confused:

[JonDyer]

Check your PMs.

[littco]

Guys

Having been in your situation this year as well, I well understand your situation.

Out of curiosity have you all filled in your insolvency wage claim forms and statutory redundancy forms? Assuming an administrator has been appointed!

I managed to claw back just under half what I was owed, although still a kick in the teeth was better than nothing.

[tommoutrie]

as far as anyone can tell there is no administrator. Nobody has a scooby doo whats going on. The structure of the company is unclear and nobody can tell which bit has ceased trading. All that the employees know is that the doors are locked, the computers have gone (we don't know who has got them), none of us have been paid, the customers have been dropped in it, and there is a feeding frenzy for the fallout business. None of which appears to have come off yet. It's all a bit of a bleeding mess! It appears that Peter and Nick are hoping to start trading under another companies AOC. Some aircraft have flown privately, others appear to have been moved. It's all a bit bizarre..

big issue anyone?

[Hasher]

I'll have a copy please Tom...

[Chinchilla.612]

Tom.....Paul......this is my Big Issue corner.......move along now :p

[JonDyer]

So,

A few of us (about 16 or 17) got together today to exchange information about the behaviour of our ex-directors and Peter Quigley. A lot of information came out, some of which can be reproduced here.

We know that they are out and about again today trying to piggyback someone's AOC so if you're thinking of doing business with them - just to let you know:

1. EBJ stopped operating owing the bank £871,000+ - I saw a letter confirming that from our bank, dated the day after we "went under". Think about that for a moment - aside from the £1m they owe other creditors they also owe the bank £870,000. I expect they would claim that they believed we were still solvent at that point....

2. We've got a letter to Quigley, dated six weeks before we stopped trading instructing him to remove the steep approach supplement from our OPS manual because: "as you know it infringes our copyright because it is a verbatim copy of the submission written by [name of author] ... and we have never granted you permission to use it.” I guess it goes without saying that at the point we ceased operations – 21st October (5 weeks later) Peter had made no attempt to modify the manual.

The letter also refers to an “embarrassing” error made by EBJ when Peter submitted the manual for publication still carrying references to BMIBaby and the operation of Boeing 737s. It seems that he sourced the text of the EBJ corporate Citation 525 operations manual from an airline that flies the 737.

Needless to say we hadn’t paid the company concerned – hence the letter.

3. We have e-mails from a handling services card, and a fuel card supplier – both instructing Nick Messer to cease using the cards and collect them in for return. This they ignored.

On 7th October the fuel supplier sent a statement telling Messer that we were £73,000 over our limit (£32,000) and that they had had more than one direct debit rejected. They threatened a stop on the account if we didn’t settle up immediately.
Nick Messer wrote back (24 hours later) stating that the accounts would be settled ASAP and in return obtained a 48 hour delay on the credit stop. This earned EBJ an extra two days to fuel the aircraft legally. Naturally we didn’t clear the balance and the supplier wrote again on 10th October saying that we had to pay £45,000 that day to avoid a stop.

On that day Graeme Deary wrote an e-mail to the ops staff stating that “the cards will work until 12!” I wonder why he wrote that?
In the end we continued using the cards right up until the end 12 days later. At no point were the pilots told that the cards were stopped (there’s an e-mail from Messer admitting they were on stop but making no mention of telling crews) thus dragging us into their nasty little conspiracy.

4. Removed. Reflected on, thought better of it. 3 will have to do.

As the days go by so more and more comes out. These are indeed interesting times.

[merlinxx]

How strange that the name Barralet crops up once again:mad:

[Gimise]

Does anyone know the company that is dealing with EBJs insolvency please?

[dc9-32]

My understanding is that they are not dealing with anyone. The 3 at the top, and we know who I'm talking about so won't name names, appear to have just closed the door leaving money owed to customers, creditors and staff alike but now appear to have the balls to be starting something new. Well, one of the 3 at least appears to be doing this.

Quite how the ex staff of EBJ feel about that is anyone's guess.

The above may not be fact, but, it's what I heard from a reliable source very recently.

[tommoutrie]

no winding up order in place - nothing has changed. None of the creditors (including Barclays) are currently forcing administration because there are absolutely no assets whatsoever. No shares in aircraft, no customer goodwill, no brand to sell, and they haven't ever paid rent on the offices that they occupied for a year so there won't even be office assets. All computers in the office were mutilated in an attempt to hide any wrongdoing and most of the financial files have been taken.

Most of the staff have been left completely high and dry - they can't even make claims from the government because the company hasn't officially made them redundant.

I'd still like to know who Silverhawk is so if anyone knows please pm me.

Tom

[solent]

mate of mine still looking for a new job having been laid off...nothing out there at the moment...last l heard bookajet were taking all the charter aircraft tho the hangar talk is another operator was going to extreme lengths to try and get the planes on there books....hope all the guys are sorted soon crap time at the minute.

[Flintstone]

Amazing Solent. All that in one breath ;)

[x933]

From what i've seen G-HEBJ was very quick in going to Air Charter Scotland and has already done quite a few charters with them. Bookajet advertising G-OROO and G-CROO out of Luton / Farnborough on Avinode. Had heard that some of the ex-ebj aircraft weren't going back on to the charter market (G-OXLS/G-NMRM?). We shall see...interesting times.

[twinjetter]

Any ideas about the disposal of the remaining three aircaft?

I'd expect G-EEBJ to have followed the ROO aircraft, but any news on G-OEBJ and G-GEBJ?

Tom - is no-one forcing the Administration issue? (not even the tax-man etc?)

You know what I'd really like........ a P45. That's all I ask. Any suggestions from anyone as to how I extract one out of the company?

What a state of affairs.

Steve

[Flyer2008]

Twinjetter,

G-EEBJ was not owned by EBJ but was just operated by them. This aircraft is currently on the market for sale. G-OEBJ is also on the market for sale but I believe it currently cannot be sold due to issues surrounding debts owed on the aircraft in the form of landings etc etc. Not sure how correct this is but heard from a very good source that this is the current situation on the a/c. Its also in pieces in maintenance. G-GEBJ is currently undergoing a potential change of registered ownership with the CAA.

Hope this helps.

[tommoutrie]

thats not correct - EBJ have no stake in GOEBJ or GEEBJ. Maybe it saves time if we clear this up by stating that EBJ have no shares in any of the aircraft that were operated by them at the time of their demise. There is confusion over where the money from GHMMV went. I think the inland revenue will be the only agency that will be able to answer that question and it will take time.
I suspect that GOEBJ will be for sale very soon and there is no charge over the aircraft in respect of landing fees etc. Everyone on here should remember that it is the owners who have taken the biggest hit. EBJ had a really nice group of clients that it treated appallingly by allowing engine and parts contracts to fall into arrears and be cancelled, by not paying money owed to owners for charters that were performed, and by generally acting in a thoroughly arrogant and irresponsible way with other peoples money. The staff have also been left completely high and dry as has been discussed in this forum already.

Always on the end of the phone if anyone wants information regarding this

Tom
07916 134536

[Flyer2008]

Tom,

I appreciate your comments. Yeah I know EBJ have no stake in G-EEBJ mainly as I supplied this aircraft to the current owner so i'm more than aware of the situation regarding ownership of this aircraft.

As for G-OEBJ this aircraft is currently advertised for sale on the market. Once again this aircraft was supplied to EBJ via myself but obviously I cannot comment on its current ownership situation which you have kindly cleared up.

At the end of the day I think we all just hope and pray that those who have suffered as a result of the demise of EBJ manage to come through all this mess at the end of the day. Lets hope that ex members of staff manage to find something soon.

[Hasher]

What does that mean?

[First.officer]

G-CROOK ?? hope that was a typo ! G-CROO isnt flying at the moment with ex-EBJ crew or otherwise to my knowledge

[x933]

G-CROO available out of Luton from the Bookajet stable. Comeandgettit!

[tommoutrie]

Chaps

I don't know exactly whats going on and I don't work for Bookajet (I don't work for anyone currently) but I don't think GCROO is flying at the moment because I think its in maintence at Gamston. It is likely that Bookajet will take on some ex EBJ crew because they are the most likely company to manage the aeroplane at the moment and there are EBJ crew type rated and ready to go who really need jobs.

The crew and the owners have been completely screwed over by EBJ - the owner of this aircraft lost a fair chunk of money because of the way that EBJ managed itself and I think its very unfair for people on here to have a pop at the crew or the owners over this sorry affair. The aircraft is owned outright by the private owner and nothing to do with EBJ so be sure that you separate the affairs of the owners and those of the former management.

Tom

[Hasher]

A little bird told me that the aircraft are no longer going to bookajet!

[solent]

heard the same, dont know who to but, who else is there LEA, Hangar8?????

[Arkwright]

My money is on Hangar 8 :ok:

[AussieAndy]

All hail the jet taxi - Times Online Rich List (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/specials/rich_list/article1558653.ece)

I just did a quick search on google and found this article, an interesting read and quite a laugh with hindsight...

[JennyB]

The smugness in that article was quite nauseating, how the world changes so quickly

[deskjockey101]

Its not the article thats the problem its the way NM has treated the people around him. Everyone can be forgiven a little hubris when promoting your company to a journalist, but not when the short term future of good people and the long term future of the industry depends upon them.

[Privatejetbroker]

notice GCROO & GOROO are being offered on avinode now by Hangar 8 in the form of Rooney Air (the owners)

Maybe bookajet didn't want a charter ally named after one of their MD's!!

[x933]

Seems that the CJ2 is piggybacking off Hangar 8's AOC and being sold by the inimitable AB.

Be interesting to see if the XLS does any flying in the near future - Hangar 8 don't have XL/XLS on their AOC, the EBJ one is suspended and Rooney Air don't have one. Caveat Emptor...

[Phil Brockwell]

I've always found it a poor omen when the owners ego does the livery.

[EI-CGO]

Hold on a minute, shouldnt aircraft being offered on Avinode be operated on the back of an AOC???

Surely Hangar 8 need to clarify just exactly how they intend to operate an aircraft that is not on their AOC.

[Phil Brockwell]

Avinode states that it is operated by Hangar 8. They don't need to justify themselves other than that to Avinode, however the CAA has to be satisfied that H8 have operational control.

[chai ja]

Any news on liquidation of company? Where have the management gone?
No correspondence sent to my address, any news on redundancy letters/p45s????

[tommoutrie]

nothing at all. I've never even had a redundancy letter. No P45, no nothing. I think HMRC will send in the boys fairly soon. Another week or so perhaps.

[Chinchilla.612]

Tom,

You've not even had a redundancy letter yet?! Mine came in the post the other week......luckily I get on quite well with our postie as the address was incomplete and there was no postage stamp!
As for HMRC going in soon, do you think that will really make any difference anyway though?

Otherwise, all set for Christmas mate?

Phil.

[tommoutrie]

No I haven't and the only difference it makes is that it may be needed for the industrial tribunal.

And no, I'm not set for christmas. I am unemployed. Dear Santa, please can I have a job for christmas. Perhaps you have a left seat opportunity going on a sledge in a couple of weeks. Will bring some biscuits as I'm used to providing my own fuel.

Tom

[Chinchilla.612]

Tom,

You want a left seat job with Santa.....you'll be lucky lol.....right seat at best on something that complex my friend :p

[hedgehopper]

Hope the liquidatior is keeping PBK Dog as one is a customed?

[private-jet]

Thought id throw some meat on the bones seeing as you lot have nearly knawed them to the marrow.

I have been speaking to the CAA through all of this and thaks to flying club members playing snicth had emails from the SRG at the CAA.(All sorted within 2 mins of the email).

Hangar 8 AOC encompasses All C56X and XLS requirements and has been posted on Avinode to generate furure enquiries and not to offer it sooner than its legally available.

Aircraft available from Fri this week if you want it?

Stop munching on here like old ladies got a question you know where to find me or contact me throught hangar 8.

Merry christmas
Andy (inimitable) Baker.

[avfuelman]

And then in English please........

[x933]

The CJ2's a flier. The XLS will be on Friday. Though, given the speed at which the CAA moves and the proximity to chrismas the precise Friday could be the basis for a fun Christmas / New Year sweepstakes...

[Hasher]

We are eating the Dog for Xmas...

Things are bad....:(


Hasher

[shed loads]

Hasher,

Remember a dog is not just for Christmas, with careful planning there should be enough left over for Boxing Day.

[Chinchilla.612]

Hi all,

Just wondered if anyone had heard any news on what is going on with EBJ recently?

I heard a rumour that they were still trying to find backing and start operating again........anyone else heard similar?

If they're not, it would be nice for someone to finally have the decency to admit defeat and declare the business bankrupt. At least then we can put our claims into the redundancy payments office and get SOME of our salaries paid to us!!

It seems rather unjust that the directors can simply close the front door and walk away from everything without any comeback or consideration for their staff.

Chinchilla.

PS. Sorry for the rant.....could just do with some of the £24,000 they owe me.