View Full Version : 101 Sqn Merlin engine in car!
I know this sort of thread has been done before but I've just been making notes on the history of a 101 Sqn Lancaster, DV302 SR-H, that flew 121 Ops in WWII. It seems that when it was scrapped in '46 the port inner Merlin was obtained by a Lancaster pilot named Mackenzie Hamilton and used to replace a Kestrel engine in a 1930s Rolls Royce competition roadster. Apparently the car was sold in 1990 for £48,000 but the trail runs cold there and all the googleing in the world turns up nix!
With 101 Sqn celebrating its 90th Anniversary this month, a silver model of Lancaster DV302 SR-H was commisioned by the 101 Sqn Association and presented at the recent all ranks dinner at Brize. It would be fantastic if the Merlin car could be located, maybe an offer of a run along the runway at Brize (if not flooded) might tempt the owner to go public?
Any petrol heads out there seen such a beast doing the rounds at classic car shows?
airborne_artist
23rd Jul 2007, 14:56
Try the para titled Automotive in this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Merlin
"Around 1990, Jameson [Paul Jameson] began work on a third Merlin-powered car, using a genuine 1930s Rolls-Royce chassis, but this vehicle remained uncompleted at the time of his death."
An authority on RR cars and an owner of an RR-powered Hurricane is Peter Vacher. I've PMd you his email address.
I did note the ref to this car but it appeared to be a new build (or unbuilt) rather than an established vehicle from the 1940s. With all the details from the original referrance I was supprised that no pictures of it appear on the web.
I have contacted mr Vacher and will hope for the best.
airborne_artist
23rd Jul 2007, 15:31
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/archive/index.php?t-33608.html
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24727
http://www.pprune.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-138230.html
Thanks, been there as well but no real joy. I did find a picture of a possible contender but no data on it. The registration appears to be GH 8803. Could this be the car? There are a couple of short films on youtube of it fireing up and it sounds good. Sorry, but I am unskilled in the art of posting pictures on Pprune. Maybe I should email it to Beagle!
GeeRam
23rd Jul 2007, 18:16
Most of the 'Merlin' engined home build cars that I'm aware of that have existed have not actually been Merlin engined. They have been Meteor powered rather than Merlin powered. The Meteor being better suited to this purpose, being the non-supercharged version of the Merlin made from less exotic and cheaper materials for use on Tanks and other armoured vehicles.
However, in the USA, supercharged RR and Packard Merlins have been trashed a plenty, in both Tractor Pulling events and Hyroplane racing over the years.
Cpt_Pugwash
23rd Jul 2007, 20:36
I seem to recall reading that the original maroon Beast was burnt out, I think in Sweden. Perhaps it was rebuilt with the yellow body carrying the same registration that may now be in Marbella.
Here's a grainy pic of a machine with two ex-Shackleton Griffons, used in the UK for tractor pull events.
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x176/ExINASty/Aviation/LangportJul07005small.jpg
NutLoose
23rd Jul 2007, 23:31
Do a search of utube there are some films of a Rover SD1 ( cringe) with a merlin or Meteor ( the tank equivelent in it running...........
As for the car, try contacting the Rolls Royce Heritage trust at Derby or one of the other bases
see
http://www.rolls-royce.com/history/heritage/offices/derby.jsp
other possibility would be
http://members.lycos.co.uk/pwgrieve/
ShyTorque
23rd Jul 2007, 23:40
At the Goodwood Revival last year I spoke to a chap standing next to a 1930s Bentley chassis which was being rebuilt with a Rolls Royce Meteor engine. It looked fantastic in blue!
chevvron
24th Jul 2007, 10:57
Jameson also built one with a Griffon (complete with supercharger!). It was rear engined and tested at both Blackbushe and Farnborough in the late 70s/early 80s.
A2QFI
24th Jul 2007, 11:14
My recollection is that John Dodd's car was Meteor powered. Further background is that he was an automatic transmission specialist, at a time when many prestige cars used bought in GM Transmissions. GM's main parts depot was/is in Antwerp and if your GM transmission car broke down in mainland Europe JD would swing past the depot and then come to you, in the Beast, to effect repairs. Link to RR powered cars here
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?p=499613
Secretsooty
24th Jul 2007, 21:10
John Dodds original "beast" did indeed perish in a fire. The second "beast" used a two-speed Allinson transmission and was in use in Spain for some time when John moved there after all the silly court stuff.
I remember reading a feature on that car in a 1970's "Street Machine" magazine as a yoof! I was totally awestruck by the sheer size and mind-numbing figures at the time. I seem to remember it idled at some ridiculously low rpm, and changed into second gear at around 80mph.....!
I read somewhere recently that the car was allegedly being used in Spain by his son, but I've heard no other reports.
Like the DVLA site. Fed in reg GH 8803 and came up with Rolls Royce first registered in 1930, which fits the description of the 101 Sqn Merlin car. The photo looks right (still can't work out how to put it on pprune and cant find the website I got it off anymore!) Just suprised that there isn't more about this great looking car on the web.:bored:
Might try a call to Top Gear or summit like that.
GeeRam
25th Jul 2007, 12:29
I seem to remember it idled at some ridiculously low rpm
Indeed, 120rpm seems to be the figure stuck in my memory cells......:confused:
' afternoon men!
Please type slowly, ageing rockape on parade.
Some of you may be familiar with a 27 litre Meteor powered SD1 that has been spotted lurking in Rutland. Its a 25 year project that is nearing fruition and everytime I see it, it makes me want to cry with laughter. That though, would be completely unfair to the chap who has built it, and the car. Its a work of art, genuinely, a piece of automotive genius and a measure of what made Britain once great.
I was lucky enough to be in it last year at the Goodwood Festival of Speed when we took it up the hill. I was unlucky enough though, not to be wearing ear defenders at the time. Here is a (shabby quality) vid of it being fired up in the workshop and one of it being mapped initially. Turn the volume and bass up..
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8247949944477077608
http://s63.photobucket.com/albums/h158/ppcrover/?action=view¤t=e5427b4a.flv
Cheers,
Al.
I think I've found the car with the ex-101 Sqn Merlin with the help of a rolls expert Peter Vacher(thanks for the PM AirArt). Its called the Handlye Special and it still exists! It will be doing runs at an MG Club show in August. It is the one reg'd GH 8803 and does look the mustard. Not a modern custom build but a genuine re-engined 1930 competition roadster. Although some references say it has a "Spitfire" engine I hope the true provenance of its Merlin will be equally appreciated. 121 Ops is a fair record for a Lanc and if this is the last piece of SR-H DV302 left then I think GH 8803 is more than just a classic car, its a memorial to all the many brave aircrew who flew SR-H. :D Just got to track down the owner and see if he will let us borrow it for the Tansor crew!
Double Zero
25th Jul 2007, 19:39
There was a 6-wheeled job boasting a 'Merlin' at the Dunsfold field day/s, late 70's - early '80s. May be able to dig up some photo's.
It was red, and looked a bit like a Capri as someone mentioned ( possibly of another vehicle).
I think it did a high speed go on the runway, not sure after reading this if it was a Merlin or Meteor - having heard of the overheating problems with true Merlins in aircraft, one wonders...
The chap who built it also had a great deal of hassle from Rolls Royce ( it had a replica radiator to suit ) - the same thing happened to the full ( human ) size replica of Lady Penelope's ' FAB 1' of Thunderbirds fame.
Now at a museum in the Lake District - ' cars of the stars ' or similar - Rolls Royce tried to buy it just so they could crush it !!!
Considering RR cars section flog things like a mobilised brick, I reckon they could do with a sense of humour implant...
This was another trackday car that divided opinion.
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n239/thrust_01/5fb28f12.jpg
Charlie in the Rover, sitting well back.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i263/summer06_2006/103d168f.jpg
Charlie is an engineering genius, an aviation nut and a very nice chap to boot.
Updates: Charlie was still having a go at the loss of the Harrier this morning, the Rolls has had a roof chop since then and the Rover did get the Invasion Stripes for the trip to the Ring. The Ratty Rolls returned 8 mpg and the Rover, a highly respectable 16 (on lpg).
Double Zero
25th Jul 2007, 22:25
D-Day stripes - definitely - and a few swastika kills on the side wouldn't go amiss...
If in Bavaria a baseball bat with a nail through it, or similar gesture of greeting, may be necessary if faced with the wrong types. :bored:
Boxster
28th Jul 2007, 22:43
RS30, sorry to disappoint you, but you haven't found the car you're looking for. This other car does exist and looks a peach, but is a "modern" custom. I'll explain..
RB, who I've been a casual acquaintance of for years has been building it for, must be, nearly twenty years. I was motoring past his place tonight just as he was unloading it from a trailor after a show. I stopped and said hello. It now has a silver arrow appearance body on it, which has been his dream for many years. Made by an old craftsman who used to bend metal for Coopers, I think. It actually has a Hurricane engine in it. A fact recently unearthed by Rolls Royce. The Merlin came out of the 'plane in 1941 and was put in a tank. From there ending up in the car. The chassis is indeed vintage, which I suppose is why it flexes! Knowing what a perfectionist RB is, I'm sure he would have beefed it up a bit. I usually have a camera on me but didn't this evening, but as he's showing it again in two weeks, I could photograph it then. It was running a bit rich on four triple-choke downdraft Lambo carbs. Years ago he told me it had a two speed dragster gearbox.
Testing has taken place at Brooklands and Duxford and this revealed a lack of brakes, soon to be modified. Among other things, RB intends to hill climb it, probably at Shelsley Walsh. One (very) old boy who saw it said he remembered watching it race on the banking at Booklands, RB let him keep his fond memories.
So, it's not a genuine re-engined 1930 competition roadster, but does look it.
Good luck with your search.
Boxster
28th Jul 2007, 23:12
http://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?image=konsul0117uz.jpg
http://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?image=konsul0121rm.jpg
http://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?image=konsul0132qp.jpg
http://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?image=konsul0141nq.jpg
http://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?image=konsul0158oy.jpg
That one sounds as good as it looks.
Here's a couple of Griffons driving in close formation:
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c186/twin_charged/zwolle%20tractor%20pulling/P1060441.jpg
If tractors are a litle too muddy for you, might I suggest this? The Donau Ring meet organised by Audi (this one in in 2002) is a classic meet for NSU bikes & Auto Union / Audi cars. This Auto Union Grand Prix Type C car 'only' has a supercharged, 16 cylinder, alcohol fueled, 6 litre engine, but the sound is breathtaking. The video is 67Mb but has been cut down from a 1.6GB original. It would be best to DL the video onto your hard disk and watch it and make sure you have full volume and full bass. Watch out for the engine meister moving the bystander with the umbrella out of the way. In fact, watch the chap with the brolly jump when it lights up properly.
http://www.wilsonlogan.com/movies/DR-040502-V16-startup.mpg (http://www.wilsonlogan.com/movies/DR-040502-V16-startup.mpg) 67Mb
http://www.wilsonlogan.com/movies/V16-startup-best-bits.mpg (http://www.wilsonlogan.com/movies/V16-startup-best-bits.mpg) 17Mb
http://www.wilsonlogan.com/movies/DR-040502-drive-bys.mpg (http://www.wilsonlogan.com/movies/DR-040502-drive-bys.mpg) 24Mb
Thanks Boxster, just back from my hols and saw your post and PM regards the Handlye Special. It does appear to be a modern custom build thus doesn't fit the description of the Lanc engined motor.
I wonder if it was purchased by a collector in 1990 and sits in a shed under a sheet somewhere. It does seem odd that such a car can just dissapear from public domain. I think I may have run this one into the sand, pity.:(
Somewhere out there is a 1930 competition roadster re-engined with a Lancaster's Merlin in 1946 and sold in 1990 for £48,000! Anyone got an email for Clarkson?
The late XV105
17th Aug 2007, 16:13
(Tangent)
...changed into second gear at around 80mph.....!
Admittedly with rather more RPM than a Merlin or Meteor to play with (try 13,000 and more), but something like the current model Honda Fireblade sports bike will easily top 100MPH in first gear. As an aside, machines in this class will reach that 100MPH from rest in about six seconds having covered less than 150 metres in the process. :eek:
(/End of tangent)
The late XV105
17th Aug 2007, 17:27
It would be best to DL the video onto your hard disk and watch it and make sure you have full volume and full bass.
Duly done, subwoofer and volume cranked up.
Made my day, and brought back memories of seeing a demo run by a Type C (this one?) at the Salzburgring as it was then called, back in the eighties ('86?)
Thanks Al R. :ok:
Glad you enjoyed it. I'll have to sort out my Goodwood video.
The Rover is scheduled to be on Fifth Gear on April 1st (no, honestly). This morning, she was looking good - Bruntingthorpe hadn't seen such a fast taxi in quite a while.
Mission: To reach 160 mph in under 2000 rpm.. etc.
apriliadriver
20th Mar 2011, 12:02
I went to the auction where the Rolls that is the subject of this thread sold. On close examination, there was no proper transmission and the car was then, and I think always had been, a non-runner.
As I peered under the bonnet I was joined by another interested party, Alan Clark. At that precise moment he was meant to be in the House of Commons on the front bench supporting Tom King on the launch of the post-coldwar Strategic Defense Review, which he had greatly influenced, much to Tom King's fury.
Typically Alan Clark had decided he'd rather be at a car auction than with the boring twerps in the HoC.
Neither of us could fathom the car and Alan, who had intended to bid, was rather put off by the amount of work needed to make it a runner. It was all pretty shabby and neglected.
After the auction, the car disappeared and I have no record of who bought it. The previous poster is correct - definitely not the Handlye Spl.
Nick
TURIN
20th Mar 2011, 21:44
I remember reading a feature on that car in a 1970's "Street Machine" magazine as a yoof! I was totally awestruck by the sheer size and mind-numbing figures at the time. I seem to remember it idled at some ridiculously low rpm, and changed into second gear at around 80mph.....!
I've still got a copy of that edition of Street Machine.
Is it worth owt? :)
<<bump>>
On tonight, so I've been told. :ok:
Marham69
1st Apr 2011, 22:14
I actually saw this beast on the move under its own power.... c 1975 outside the BP HQ Building in Moorgate London.
Was a 'normal' front and back E-type with lengthened chassis in the middle to accommodate Merlin. Awesome sound amidst the concrete canyons.
Was definitely a 'runner' but I am not sure how far it would have travelled. :-)
Gerry