Want to be a Police Air Observer?

[jayteeto]

http://ww1.northumbria.police.uk/ePolicing/Web/WMS.nsf/VacanciesContentDocs/VAC008171?OpenDocument
A lot of crewmen have asked if they could do this job. Genuine jobs here, but be warned if you are interested, there is a catch. Because they will make you a PCSO, when the aircraft is off-line for servicing or weather, you will be walking the streets. All for 20 grand!! Traffic Wardens are PCSOs in some forces, so that is how they see your expertise. Even with a mil pension, this is poor.

[J.A.F.O.]

That makes me mad.

If you pay peanuts you know what you'll get.

To recruit fresh from the streets for an Air Observer is questionable, to recruit at that level of remuneration is asking for problems.

Northumbria - you've got it wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

[jayteeto]

Just thinking a bit about it and the light bulb has come on!! Just like many contractors, the wage + a police/mil pension will equate to a normal PCs wage. I know it isn't strictly a mil thread, but I thought it may interest some of you who are leaving.....

[charliegolf]

To recruit fresh from the streets for an Air Observer is questionable

Aren't WSOps recruited that way?

CG

[SilsoeSid]

Where is the problem?

In the mil you used to be able to recruit an observer off the 'military streets'. Train them to operate in different types of aircraft all over the world, having probably never flown in one before the course.

They were trained to operate winches and to be abseil instructors/despatchers/gunners/heli teli operators. Could map read to such a level they could get you from A to B via Z Y & X at below 250ft using a combination of maps generally from 500,000 to 50,000 within 1 minute of a designated ToT.

They could take command of a battle group on the Canadian Praries, including coordination of fast jets, artillery fire and anti-tank assets. Look after casualties in a casevac role including patient care involving drips in places such as Belize, Brunei or Kenya and direct troops to incidents within both urban and rural areas such as the part of the UK across the water.

Not forgetting that these observers, were also trained to fly the aircraft back to a safe area and execute a safe and unhurried landing should an unfortunate incident to the pilot occur. (claiming 1.5 Capt en route of course!)

He was also a qualified fuel operative, signaller and role equipment specialist. Not bad for a 3 month course and a bit of on the job training.

As for the PCSO bit in the advert, the observer described above was, when not flying, also expected to be able to perform tasks such as leading a section into a firefight or patrol the streets of that part of the UK across the water, perform guard duties, driving duties, peel potatoes and pan bash!


As AIDU said, "The selection procedure made sure that the right people were appointed."
If the Ts&Cs are right they will apply, however I feel JAFO may have a point!

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

At least you get the chance of one day saying "Right Tinkerbell ... You're nicked" :ok:

[gijoe]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhh!

I don't think you can - all I think you can do is hold until your plod mate has come aliong and hope that 'chummy' doesn't club you and run off in the meantime.

G

[psyan]

The only reason for recruitment of non-police for this role is to save the cost of the PC in the air. The current salary max after accreditation is paltry and I feel they are unlikely to get any takers worthy of note. However, they might be aiming for retired - soon to become retired PC's who were recently in the role.

[gijoe]

...and that is exactly what happened at Hampshire a few years back when they did the same thing. Don't forget that these jobs must be advertised and the whole process gone through even if a totally suitable PC would happily retire into the job.

There was one serving guy offered job at Hampshire who later decided that he couldn't afford the move from Kinloss to Gosport if the salary was £19k...

g

[pigsinspace]

They were trained to operate winches and to be abseil instructors/despatchers/gunners/heli teli operators. Could map read to such a level they could get you from A to B via Z Y & X at below 250ft using a combination of maps generally from 500,000 to 50,000 within 1 minute of a designated ToT.
They could take command of a battle group on the Canadian Praries, including coordination of fast jets, artillery fire and anti-tank assets. Look after casualties in a casevac role including patient care involving drips in places such as Belize, Brunei or Kenya and direct troops to incidents within both urban and rural areas such as the part of the UK across the water.
Not forgetting that these observers, were also trained to fly the aircraft back to a safe area and execute a safe and unhurried landing should an unfortunate incident to the pilot occur. (claiming 1.5 Capt en route of course!)
He was also a qualified fuel operative, signaller and role equipment specialist. Not bad for a 3 month course and a bit of on the job training.
As for the PCSO bit in the advert, the observer described above was, when not flying, also expected to be able to perform tasks such as leading a section into a firefight or patrol the streets of that part of the UK across the water, perform guard duties, driving duties, peel potatoes and pan bash!

I hope you don't think thats an average Loadie?

[maxdrypower]

Speaking as a police observer , it is entirely correct that these jobs will probably already have been filled more than likely by seving / retiring officers. As a copper and an observer If im on the ground for example in a pursuit I want a copper whose done just that above me , if Im in the air I dont wanna be working with bloody cso's . This is pretty much the way of it and how officers on the ground feel , if ya wanna be an observer join the police do your time then do it , youll get paid a lot more and youll have repsect of your peers unlike professional pedestrians cso's . Civvy observers doesnt work never has probably never will . I could evidence all this but whats the point ,
It is all very well to say that alms etc are taken and trained from scratch , this is true , however how many ground or air trades in the RAF expect every time a helicopter comes into view the ALM to know exactly what they do and what their thinking , if you know what Im getting at? When an ASU arrives officers expect the aircrew to know exactkly what they will be doing and exactly how to help them , if you have never been in a TPAC operation high speed pursuit or Public order situation how are your going to get officers on the ground managed correctly ?, simple your not, but hey I could go on all day , non police officers in any operational role is a mistake and this has been proved time and time again but as it saves cost they do keep trying , should have stayed in the mob :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:
And yeh a pcso can do nothing whatosoever when he comes across mateyboy kicking seven shades out of someone , they are a complete and utter waste of space , my own force offers the pcso job to those that fail the police recruitement , and that is an unbelievably simple test these days
Take a wise word from one who left a possible aircrew job in the mob to be a cop , DONT its ****e , yeh the mob maybe ****e but you just wouldnt believe how bad the police force is stay well clear

[J.A.F.O.]

Many of the above points are very valid but to draw any comparison between WSOps of whatever variety or AAC Crewmen and Police Air Observers is very wrong. There is a great deal of training involved in the military roles - not so with the police; a month or so and it's over to you.

As Max said observers are expected to take control and know exactly what needs to be done but, I'm afraid you're wrong about civvy observers not being able to do it, Max.

Charlie and AIDU - I see your point but as I said above the military training is far longer and much more in-depth; Suffolk didn't quite recruit from the streets, both of their civvy observers were already police staff within the force and one had seen more pursuits than any bobby. Your other points though, AIDU, are incredibly perceptive.

Personally I feel that recruiting civvy observers is fraught with dangers that the management may not see but the operational officers - both on the ground and in the air will find blindingly obvious.

Max, most officers on the ground wouldn't know whether they had a civvy, PCSO or bobby talking to them - as long as they receive from the aircraft what they need then it really doesn't matter but how you can recruit from the streets, teach someone how to give that service and be an air observer all within a few weeks I don't know.

[maxdrypower]

JAFO, Good points but unfortunately the troops on the ground would know who was up there very quickly , you cannot train a non police officer to walk talk and think like one . Police staff perhaps , Although Im not sure about your reference to a a member of staff having seen more pursuits than any police officer , how did he manage that Police Camera Action ???:}:}
I would say that the air observers course is a course that is ample for the job a trained experienced police officer needs to do . The course is short because the stuff that really matters is the stuff learnt during the years policing the street , I canot imaginre how you would train someone fromscratch to do it I dont think you could , at the ned of the day trainig in the poice nowadays is so bad and so substandard these recruts have enough on their plate just learning how to stay safe ,
Jaf , we could go on for hours here , T.J.F as they say

[mystic_meg]

at the ned of the day trainig in the poice nowadays is so bad
clearly :hmm:

[mlc]

"Take a wise word from one who left a possible aircrew job in the mob to be a cop , DONT its ****e , yeh the mob maybe ****e but you just wouldnt believe how bad the police force is stay well clear"

As an ex-RN bod, now ARV Sgt, couldn't agree more! I could spend all day telling you why...but you'd just get bored! :}

And as the great Peter Kaye would say.."I've seen the future..PCSO's"

[J.A.F.O.]

Max

I agree with you about the training - it's good enough if you've got some experience to back it up but if you walked in off the street having earned all five stars at McDonald's but fancying a change of uniform (and a drop in pay given the advert that sparked this off) it wouldn't be enough and I think if any force were to recruit someone ab initio, as it were, give them PCSO training and then an Air Observer course they would be short-changing everyone on the ground and in the air through no fault of the PCSO/Observer.

One of the police staff recruited by Suffolk six years ago had spent the previous dozen or so years as an advanced driving instructor with Suffolk, so - I guess - he was fairly up to speed on that side of things, if you'll forgive the unintentional pun.

Being JAFO isn't rocket science, it ain't some dark art but it probably needs a mix of experience, skills and training that it would be difficult (perhaps not impossible but difficult) to impart to a fresh out of the box PCSO.

[maxdrypower]

Yep AIDU That is pretty much par for the course . Our unit used to send potential candidates to OASC until they realised it was a waste of money. Now they do an in house exam and several flight tests , which to be fair if you dont have the aptitude you wont do very well. However certain scores are already written prior too , if you get my drift , ethnic minorities and women , but thats the police all over everybodys equal but some are more equal than others , you know I'm sure Ive heared that somewhere before??
Meg , I was tired and type fast incompetently , thank you for your well thought out addition to the subject , I'm sure you had to take out significant time from your obviously fulfilling and gratifying life , well done you .

[mystic_meg]

thank you for your well thought out addition to the subject

No problem, mind how you go now, and get that tail light fixed too.. :ok:

[maxdrypower]

you think with a u/s tail light your going anywhere sonny think again !:}:}:}:}:}:}

[J.A.F.O.]

Well they advertised the job in the East Anglian Daily times and those that were short listed were sent to OASC for testing

It was advertised in several other places, too and those that were tested at OASC sat the same tests as Police Officers had sat the year before.

including an ex phantom back seater who fancied the challange

Three questions - And? So? What?

The police candidates were put in the back of SAR cab[/

No, they weren't.

and were flown about a bit

No, they weren't.

handed a map

No, they weren't.

and were asked to navigate to a given grid

No, they weren't.

I'm not entirely sure what the point of your post was but it was stunningly innacurate, the applicants for the Air Observer job with Suffolk were subjected to the same selection tests as police officers.

I hope the rest of AIDU check their facts a little more thoroughly prior to publication.

[maxdrypower]

Yeh got me that one too JAFO, an ex phantom back seater fancying a challenge???? I cant see the challenge for him , aside form the boredom of going 400kts slower, Ive never known the police to pay for an SAR heli to assist them in doing something they are more than equipped for themselves and in a specifically role equipped bird to boot , hmmmm thinks

[maxdrypower]

Yeh only been doing it ten years what the hell wud I know , how bout yourself ? I say again why would the RAF need under any circumstances need to provide a helicopter to a force that already has one . Please do me the honour of telling me which force this was and the dates I will give the UEO a ring and find out then we can post a definitive response .

[chute]

Maxdrypower, as a serving CSO for over 2 1/2 years I'm disappointed with your poor attitude towards Police Staff colleagues.

I appreciate the CSO role and other civilianised posts are contraversial, but there are many Police civilians working hard & gaining excellent results across the UK. There are good and bad in any job, please don't tar us all with the same brush.

"I dont wanna be working with bloody cso's . This is pretty much the way of it and how officers on the ground feel"

"...youll have repsect of your peers unlike professional pedestrians cso's"

"non police officers in any operational role is a mistake"

"And yeh a pcso can do nothing whatosoever when he comes across mateyboy kicking seven shades out of someone , they are a complete and utter waste of space"

I have earned the respect of my peers, I am a professional.

In my operational role I have gained results in areas that Police Officers alone had not previously suceeded in, this is no mistake.

When I occasionally come across mateyboy kicking seven shades out of someone I risk assess, challenge or tackle them, co-ordinating resources to effect an arrest. If it's unsafe to do that, I wait for backup and act as a professional witness, as many a PC has done in the past. I'm not powerless, I've made dozens of safe arrests, and summons which have led to convictions.

Im not disputing that being a Police Air Observer is a challenging job that requires skill & an indepth knowledge of many areas of policing and aviation. In such a critical role we need people who know what they are doing.

Time will tell whether civilian Police Air Observers are effective...or 'just a waste of space' as you have labelled CSOs.

[maxdrypower]

So long as you feel your doing a good job then youll be happy wont you . So how does a cso with no powers of arrest, arrest someone ?????? and you summons for what S5 littering parking ???? well theres a proud mother
You may be professional but at what ????? We managed very well without you and I am more than happy never to work with them . Sorry if that upsets you but you are public reassurance and policing on the cheap .I would rather have one newbie cop than ten CSO's but we are in a performance driven society and the public would rather see Mrs Miggins pavement clear of dog **** and Oh so rowdy 10 yr olds than burglars and car thieves off the streets . If you want to help so much why dont you join the police , or like all our CSO's was that option taken from you ??? The newe police recruitement model is possibly one of the simplest selections procedures ever devised , those that fail are offered CSO what does that tell you.I wont respond anymore to this thread as it is not about cso's v police . Just turn up do your job but if your happy doing it , its your happiness that counts