CPL training in SA

[Rach]

I'm a potential RAF medical reject (just completing EFT, but eyesight problems) and so have been enquiring with 43rd Air School in Port Alfred, SA about CPL training. Wondering if anyone has been through this system or similar ones in SA and has any advice/opinions on the training? I am also interested to hear what jobs are available in Africa for example, after the training in SA.

[Dirk]

Rach

Do a search on this (the African) forum for 43 Air School, much has been said already and nothing much has changed.

I am coming up to completion of my training here, and if I could do it all again I would choose the same place to train. I've just been on the international cross-country trip (8 days) which is part of the training program. Superb - wildlife viewing on the Chobe River, Vic Falls and Okavango Delta.
Oh and today flying back from doing approaches in East London, did a low-level inspection of a giant whale !

Everybody you speak to in Africa seems to know about 43 and the school has a good reputation. That said I will soon be joining the group of unemployed CPLs in this part of the world so time will tell if it really does help !

Cheers
Dirk

[Polar-bear]

43 Air School is one of the best schools in South Africa!!!

I had the best year of my life there.
There is a professional atmosphere there and living on the base, you eat, sleep and live flying. Being based in a small town, it is great going out at night, because you always meet up with someone from the air school and can always have a good time.

As for jobs afterwards, 43 has an excellent name which will help you a lot.
Getting a job in S.A. will be almost impossible due to being British, but there are jobs up in Maun, Botswana and in Namibia doing bush flying or charter.

From your point of view, I think the best aspect is that when you bring your pounds over here, MULTIPLY THEM BY TEN!!!

Good luck with your flying.
Hope to see you in Sunny South Africa!

[goaround7]

Rach,

FYI, officially, the South African CAA will issue a South African comm licence to SA Citizens or permanent residents only. If you're not, then you might have problems going for the SA comm.

Several schools will give you a course based on ICAO hours but you'd need to do UK JAR exams and flight test.

[Bogtrotter]

Are you sure about a South African license not being issued to non-residents? Sounds a bit crazy to me although off-hand I can't think of any SA license holder that I know who are not residents or South Africans.

[Rach]

Cheers for all your responses, keep them coming.

43rd don't seem to have a probelm with me being a British Citizen, apparently I need to apply for a Study Visa at the SA embassy. Can a license from SA mean I can fly commerical anywhere in Africa on contracts?

[Dirk]

Rach

I have never heard that SA licenses can only be issued to SA citizens. I know personally quite a few people from overseas who have finished here and got the license, so I don't think you'll have a problem there.

It is possible to fly on contracts 'up' in Africa on a SA license, if the aeroplanes are SA registered. It is also quite easy to get a SA license validated in Botswana, so you can fly there. I have spoken to a few companies over the last few weeks and none have a problem with employing UK citizens for contract work. However getting a work permit for SA itself seems almost impossible.

Yes you will need to get a study permit. Email me please and I will give you more info: [email protected]

Cheers
Dirk

[goaround7]

I used the word 'officially' because being an SA citizen or permanent res is what is stated in the CARS under requirments for a CPL.

There are of course a lot of expats flying in SA but did they validate over or scrape in under a 'grandfather clause' ? That said, there always seem to be several Irish guys doing comm subjects each time I've sat exams at CAA and they can't all be the sons of Trevor's (alleged) mates from the IRA...

I am British, with permanent SA residency by marriage but nobody told me until I came across the rule while studying for the Comm Law exam. The CATS/CARS changed a lot during 1999. I'd strongly advise checking before assuming that a student visa will allow you to be awarded an SA CPL. 43 might be assuming you want to do an ICAO course...

Getting a work permit for SA will also be a tough challenge. An SA company would have to prove that they couldn't find a local to do the job - not very credible with all the new South African CPLs looking for that first break too. If the gen on the student visa is correct, then it might allow you to work for a limited period after qualification as you can in the USA.

[Bogtrotter]

A SA license is fairly easily converted to other African licenses. As you move further north it can become slightly more difficult (or easy if the cash reaches the right pockets!) There has been a bit of a ??? about SA licenses since a few comrades were found affirmatively acquireing licenses. I'm not sure how companies like Emirate and Cathay (both previously very happy with SA licenses) now regard the SA license. Does anyone know? Other than that the SA license is as well regarded as any other ICAO license and in my opinion is exactly the same as a CAA national license.

[Wiz]

See my response on SA Work permits (http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/Forum26/HTML/000238.html)

[Rach]

Dirk,

Your email address isn't working! Drop me a note on: [email protected]

Cheers

Rach

[Rach]

Dirk,

Your email address isn't responding! Drop me a note on: [email protected]

Cheers

Rach

[ozinafrica]

What is the CAR or ANR that refers to the citizen rule, I cant seem to find it.

And by the way I hold a OZ licence plus many others, and have been issued with a SA CPL, and instructors rating! So have many others I have met here.


PS getting a work permit here, was easy, took 3 weeks in all, and is just as easy to renew. All you need is a employer to fill in the forms, or better still apply for the job seekers permit, it will be even easier, and you dont need to have a job offer before you leave home.


[This message has been edited by ozinafrica (edited 02 October 2000).]

[goaround7]

Ozinafrica,

I don't have my CARS with me as I'm in the UK at present, but the bit about requiring SA citizenship or permanent residency was in the list of requirements for a CPL, eg 200 hours TT, 100 PIC, x hours instrument flying etc. I checked with another SA pilot who was on my course who confirmed this.

It's possible it's changed again since last year or that CAA isn't aware of its own rules (wouldn't be surprised...) .

Did you have a non-SA CPL already or did you do your first in SA ? Perhaps it doesn't apply to Validations or isn't enforced unless there's a large surplus of pilots in SA ?

[ozinafrica]

For all who needs to know,

There is no requirement to be a Sth African citizen , nor has there ever been under the old ANR 2 rules.(according to the CAA themselves and also our office edition of the rules)

The current rules are online at this address: http://www.caa.gov.za/docs/regulations/part61-1.pdf


Hope that clears it all, the only restriction you can find that applies to a foreigner is to hold a instructor rating they make you take the restest and all exams and start at the bottom again.
FYI I held a Oz licence and Uk prior to coming here, and required a full licence not a validation for work, hence did all the exams and tests again and was then issued a full SA CPL.

[The Unteleported Man]

Here's the current law: (ANR 1976):


Commercial pilots (Aeroplane)

3.3 (1) An applicant for a commercial pilot's licence (areoplane) shall

(a) be the holder of a valid general certificate of competency in radio-telephony;

(b) be not less than 18 years of age;

(c) satisfy the Commissioner in a written examination, or an examination conducted in another form acceptable to the Commissioner, as to his knowledge of–

(i) aviation meteorology;

(ii)flight planning and performance;

(iii) radio aids and communication;

(iv) navigation;

(v) air law and operating procedures;

(vi)instruments and electronics;

(vii)aviation medicine; and

(viii)the technical subjects mentioned in Chapter 5 and such applicant, except in the case of a pilot having qualified in the South African Air Force, shall only be entitled to enter for or attempt the above-mentioned subjects–

(aa) if he or she is the holder of a private pilot’s licence issued in accordance with regulation 3.2; or

(bb)if he or she is the holder of a valid pilot’s licence issued by a foreign licensing authority, provided that such licence shall be acceptable to the Commissioner as the equivalent to at least a private pilot’s licence;

(d) have completed not less than 200 hours of flight time, which may include 20 hours of flight instruction time on simulators approved by the Commissioner, or 150 hours of flight time if he has satisfactorily completed a course of approved training, which may include 10 hours of flight instruction time on simulators approved by the Commissioner: Provided that the total of 200 hours or 150 hours as the case may be, shall include:

(i) 100 hours as pilot-in-command;

(ii) 20 hours of cross-country flight time as pilot-in-command, including one flight of not less than 300 nautical miles in the course of which not less than two full-stop landings at different points shall be made;

(iii)ten hours of night flying as pilot-in-command, including not less than 10 take-offs and 10 landings by night and a solo triangular crosscountry flight by night of not less than 100 nautical miles and with a radius of not less than 50 nautical miles from base, along any sector of the flight;

(iv) 20 hours of instrument flight instruction, of which not more than 10 hours may have been acquired on simulators approved by the Commissioner;

(e) pass a practical flight test within 24 months from the date of notification of having passed the required technical examinations and within the 30 days immediately preceding the date of application, and such practical flight shall be with an official examiner in–

(i)sequences 1 to 17 and 19 to 23 of the flight instruction syllabus prescribed in Chapter 4 and shall demonstrate to the official examiner his ability to perform both normal and emergency manoeuvres, appropriate to the category and class of the aircraft used in the test, with a degree of competency appropriate to that of a commercial pilot;

(ii) instrument flight, which includes the interception of predetermined radials, QDR and QDM from or to VOR and NDB stations and utilising navigation aids as applicable;

(iii)night flight;

(iv) flight planning and mass and balance problems appropriate to the type of aeroplane used for the test.

(1A) Only a candidate who is the holder of a valid private pilot's licence may enter for or write examinations referred to in subregulation (1)(c) of this regulation.

(2) The tests referred to in subregulation (l)(e) shall be undertaken in an aeroplane with variable-pitch propeller, adjustable flaps and retractable undercarriage, unless special permission is obtained from the Commissioner.

(3) An applicant who has qualified as a pilot in the South African Air Force may be exempted by the Commissioner–

(a) from any or all of the examinations and tests prescribed in subregulation (1) of this regulation except those prescribed in paragraph (c)(i) of that subregulation; and

(b) from the requirement referred to in subregulation (lA) of this regulation.



Here's from the CARs. THIS IS NOT LAW AT PRESENT

Requirements for commercial pilot licence (aeroplane)

61.05.1 An applicant for the issuing of a commercial pilot licence (aeroplane) shall –

(a)be not less than 18 years of age;

(b)hold a valid Class 1 medical certificate issued in terms of Part 67;

(c)hold a valid general radiotelephony operator's certificate;

(d)hold a valid private pilot licence (aeroplane), unless the applicant has completed the integrated training referred to in Regulation 61.01.21;

(e)have acquired the experience referred to in Regulation 61.05.2;

(f)have successfully completed the training referred to in Regulation 61.05.3;

(g)have passed the theoretical knowledge examination referred to in Regulation 61.05.4; and

(h)have undergone the skill test referred to in Regulation 61.05.5; and

(i) hold a valid night rating.

Experience

61.05.2 An applicant for the issuing of a commercial pilot licence (aeroplane)shall have completed not less than –

(a)200 hours flight time, which may include 20 hours of flight instruction time in a simulator; or

(b)150 hours of flight time if he or she has successfully completed the integrated training referred to in
Regulation 61.01.21: Provided that the total of 200 hours or 150 hours, as the case may be, shall include –

(i) 100 hours as pilot-in-command;

(ii)20 hours of cross-country flight time as pilot-in-command, including one flight of not less than 300 nm in the course of which not less than two full-stop landings at different aerodromes shall be made;

(iii)10 hours of night flying as pilot-in-command, including not less than 10 take-offs and 10 landings by night and consisting of a triangular flight of which the three legs are a minimum of 50 nm each; and

(iv)20 hours of instrument flight instruction, of which not more than 10 hours may have been acquired in a simulator.

Training

61.05.3 An applicant for the issuing of a commercial pilot licence (aeroplane) shall have successfully completed the appropriate training as prescribed in Document SA-CATS-FCL.

Theoretical knowledge examination

61.05.4 An applicant for the issuing of a commercial pilot licence (aeroplane) shall have passed the appropriate written examination as prescribed in Document SA-CATS-FCL.

Skill test

61.05.5 (1) An applicant for the issuing of a commercial pilot licence (aeroplane) shall have demonstrated to the examiner, the ability to perform as pilot-in-command of an aeroplane the procedures and manoeuvres as prescribed in Document SA-CATS-FCL, with a degree of competency appropriate to the privileges granted to the holder of a commercial pilot licence (aeroplane).

(2) The applicant shall undergo the skill test referred to in subregulation (1) within 24 months of passing the theoretical knowledge examination referred to in Regulation 61.05.4 and within 90 days immediately preceding the date of application.

(3) The skill test shall be undertaken in an aeroplane with variable pitch propellers, adjustable flaps and retractable undercarriage, unless special permission is obtained from the Commissioner.

Application for commercial pilot licence (aeroplane)

61.05.6 An application for the issuing of a commercial pilot licence (aeroplane) shall be –

(a) made to the Commissioner in the appropriate form as prescribed in Document SA-CATS-FCL; and

(b)accompanied by –

(i) a valid Class 1 medical certificate issued in terms of Part 67;

(ii)a certified true copy of the private pilot licence (aeroplane) held by the applicant or certified proof that the applicant has completed the integrated training referred to in Regulation 61.01.2;

(iii)original or certified proof that the applicant has passed the theoretical knowledge examination referred to in Regulation 61.05.4;

(iv) the skill test report as prescribed in Document SA-CATS-FCL; and

(v) the appropriate fee prescribed in Part 187.

Issuing of commercial pilot licence (aeroplane)

61.05.7 (1) The Commissioner shall issue a commercial pilot licence (aeroplane) if the applicant complies with the requirements referred to in Regulation 61.05.1.

(2) A commercial pilot licence (aeroplane) shall be issued on the appropriate form as prescribed in Document SA-CATS-FCL.

[goaround7]

Rach, Unteleported, OzinAfrica et al,

Apologies to all for confusing the SA CPL issue re. citizenship, perm res. You must be right - that requirement is completely missing from the ANRs/CARS etc. you referenced.

I was absolutely positive but must have gotten confused somewhere. As I said, the other pilot and I did Law as it was all being changed and possibly got lost somewhere.

[The Unteleported Man]

Hey Goaround don't feel bad... The ANRs / CATS / CARs etc are a complete cock-up. Anyone who claims to know what's going on is at best optimistic - more likely a liar.

[dynamite dean]

Rach i did my multi comm /if at www.flightschool.co.za (http://www.flightschool.co.za) take a peek nice place nice people we have a chap ex raf nav.on hawks doing his license with us! we attract allsorts