Lagos Airport hit by serious fire

[newswatcher]

Reported by Africa News Online:

"The entire Domestic Terminal of the Murtala Muhammed Airport, Ikeja, has been burnt down completely by fire. The mysterious fire which reportedly started at 2 a.m. gutted the entire buildings at the airport terminal, causing a loss estimated at 500 million dollars and disrupting flight operations.

Airline offices, check-in counters, banks, arrival halls and other buildings in the domestic terminal were destroyed by the inferno which many people described as "unprecedented."

Hundreds of air travellers and airline officials watched in disbelief as the fire, which could not be controlled by fire fighters gutted the buildings, destroying valuable property running into millions of naira.

Although the source of the fire could not be immediately ascertained, it was feared that an explosion in one of the offices have caused the inferno. Scores of Nigerian Airways and private airlines officials were seen watching helplessly and lamenting their plight as the fire raged on mercilessly.

An Albarka airline official disclosed to P.M.News that the airline could not salvage any of its property.

Also speaking on the fire incident, an official of Inland Bank which offices were destroyed, said the bank lost millions of naira to the inferno.

About eight fire brigade vehicles belonging to the Nigerian Airports Authority and the Lagos State government were also seen trying to put out the fire.

Private airline offices affected by the fire include EAS, Albarka Airline, Okada, Chanchangi Airline, Kabo, Bellview Airlines and others.

A detachment of policemen from the Airport Police Station were seen standing guard over the rubbles of the burnt buildings, keeping away sympathisers and onlookers.

Meanwhile, the police have arrested 6 currency traffickers and 3 staffers of the Nigeria Airports Authority in connection with the fire incident. They were reportedly picked up at the scene of the fire outbreak.

Police sources disclosed to PMNews that they suspected sabotage.The police Commissioner, Mr. Mike Okiro and the Assistant Inspector General of |Police, in charge of Zone 2 have visited the scene of the fire disaster. The Aviation Minister, Olusegun Agagu, also inspected the burnt terminal building this morning.

According to him, he is very much interested in ensuring that flight operations were not disrupted by the incident which claimed both the Arrival and Departure Halls of the terminal building.

Mr. Chidi Nnoro, President, National Union of Air Transport Employees described it as a tragedy to the nation and a loss to NUATE. Government, he counselled should set up an inquiry to probe the cause of the incident.

"Right now I don't suspect sabotage," he affirmed."

[Flypuppy]

The damage is estimated to be valued as running into tens, if not hundereds of dollars....

[The Guvnor]

Flypuppy, you talking about the official or blackmarket exchange rate for the naira? :)

When I saw this thread I was hoping that something probably 90% of those to visit Nigeria have been putting high up their wish-lists had occurred: that someone had detonated a high yield thermonuclear device over the place!

Ah well...!

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Happiness is V2 at DNMM - in the knowledge you've just burnt the place down!

[What_does_this_button_do?]

The fire service tried to put out the blaze?, how much were they charging?, or were people not paying to let the place burn?

;)

[The Guvnor]

I suspect they paid the fire services *not* to put it out!!

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:) Happiness is a warm L1011 :)

[flapsforty]

IMHO, not funny gentlemen.

[Flypuppy]

Flapsforty, if you have ever had the misfortune to visit Lagos International you would understand...

[The Guvnor]

Gimme dash!!

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:) Happiness is a warm L1011 :)

[Algol]

Good riddance to it.

Once saw a B707 skipper (a Skandahooligan)try to blow it away on his last depature from the old domestic ramp...sadly failed. Nice try though. :)

[FREDA]

Look on the bright side: There are at least a billion fewer cockroaches in the world today.

Speaking as someone pretty well aquainted with the domestic terminal at LOS I can confirm that this is no great loss.

[The Guvnor]

The Domestic terminal - which was then still the international terminal - was my first introduction to Nigeria, back in 1977.

Now, all someone has to do is raze Schiphol II (the international terminal, for those that have never been there) and we're off to a good start!

Gimme more dash!!

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:) Happiness is a warm L1011 :)

[RRAAMJET]

How much to re-style Kano Airport (N.Nigeria & an unfortunate choice of alternate) while they're at it? I visited Kano Radio HF station once when I was stuck there .... a bloke sitting miserably at an old Sony World Orbiter Radio writing ( occasional ) traffic details down on the wall with a pencil. Occasionally he would run to the window with a pair ( ?it only had one lens!) of binocs and look skyward to see if he could see anyone. Lagos was like Spacestation Mars in comparison...

[flapsforty]

Flypuppy, i've been to Lagos and Kano more times than i care to remember. And yes, easy to come up with bad stuff about both places.
Still, why gloat?

[The Guvnor]

Flapsforty - without wishing to sound racist (i'm not) or biased (ok, I am coz I lived there for 7 years in total) anything negative that happens to Nigeria is just fine by me.

I read somewhere that Nigeria is an entire nation suffering from bad karma. It is. :)

That said, I do have a couple of really good Nigerian friends - but they're the exception that proves the rule as far as I'm concerned!

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:) Happiness is a warm L1011 :)

[Flypuppy]

FlapsForty,

The domestic Terminal at LOS was hellish place even on a good day.Total destruction is probably the best thing that happend to it. I worked in Nigeria for 5 years and was only too familiar with the place. As a hostie, I guess your exposure to Nigeria was on the crew bus from the airport to the Sheraton and back, if you ever had to travel down to Port Harcourt or Warri you might have a slightly different viewpoint.
I am afraid I have to agree with the Guvnor.

[newswatcher]

The Guvnor will like this one. Needless to say it is from a "local" source!

"Fresh facts on the fire which yesterday razed the Terminal I building of the Murtala Muhammed Airport, Ikeja, Lagos emerged with the shocking revelation that the area may have been bombed by unscrupulous officials of the Federal Airports Authority of Nigeria to mask a shady deal.

An authoritative source at FAAN said that sabotage cannot entirely be ruled out given the spate of threats and petty politics in the airport in the past few weeks.

The source which craves anonymity said the illicit acts of brigandage was a measure to "cover the atrocities perpetrated by bad eggs in their bid to ensure that their can of worms is not blown open by a federal government probe of tenures of the various bosses of the parastatals in the Ministry of Aviation, including the Federal Airports Authority of Nigeria (FAAN)."

In his remarks, Mr. John Jerry Ilugo, a Traffic Operations manager in the airport told newsmen that "the general suspicion is that the building was bombed", but denied any knowledge of sabotage. A few weeks ago, a national newspaper exclusively reported plans by a faceless group to burn and wreak havoc on the airport if certain conditions favourable to them were not satisfied. In the said threat letter pasted on strategic walls in the airport, the faceless group had vowed to return fire for fire as long as events continued to be as they were. Some airline officials claimed the fire disaster was caused by electrical faults emanating from the inefficiency of the National Electric Power Authority (NEPA).

Although the actual cost of goods destroyed in the fire cannot be estimated as at now, an impeccable source at the airport placed it at about $500 million. But Mr. Lateef Shina Lawal, consultant to Sky Power Express and publisher, Nigerian Aviation Commercial News, said "the damage cannot be quantified." Neither the Domestic Terminal Manager of the airport, Mr. J.C.O. Ezenwankwo nor Mr. Sule Ozenua, the Managing Director of the Federal Airports Authority of Nigeria (FAAN) could be reached for comments on the allegations being levelled against the FAAN.

But in his response to a question, the Minister of Aviation, Dr. Olusegun Agagu said "no one can say specifically the cause of the fire." He however, assured that investigations into the inferno had commenced. Responding to a question on compensation for the stakeholders and occupants of the building like Inland Bank, post office and the airlines, the minister said "it depends on the contractual agreement they had with FAAN", adding that "the most important thing is that no life was lost."

[flapsforty]

No prob Gents. May-be I'd gloat as well in your shoes??
And Flypuppy, some hosties actually manage to get out of a Sheraton occasionally. ;)
Houdoe!

[Flypuppy]

Oyeeeboh! Geeemee mohnay! You geemee dollah! ;)

Flapsforty, why would anyone want to leave the Sheraton :)
When I arrived in Country I never wanted to leave the Sheraton and the way home I couldn't get out of it fast enough. Funny old game innit?

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Flypuppy: Cuddlier than Winnie the Pooh

[This message has been edited by Flypuppy (edited 12 May 2000).]

[The Guvnor]

Ah, Nigeria!! My best investment there (apart from an ATPL that cost me US$100) was an SSS ID card that cost US$500 - oh the fun I had with that, especially with the immigration bods! :) :)

I spoke to someone who knows these things earlier today, and he tells me that the probable cause of the fire was to cover up the very visible differences between the amount of money spent on the domestic terminal by the NAA and that *actually* spent by the contractors - the Chairman of which just happens to be related to the Air Commodore in charge of the NAA, but hey, what's a little nepotism between family members? :) :)

Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose.

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:) Happiness is a warm L1011 :)

[Secret Agent Man]

Gentlemen! I am shocked by your cavalier attitude. Surely you realize this has great international implications!

The FAA will have to change its signs at security checkpoints thoughout the US stating that now Port-au-Prince, Haiti is the only "unsafe" airport....

:) :) :) :) :)

[jet jones]

:MAD: Flypuppy, Guvnor,

I am shocked at your mockery and ignorance of the occurence in Lagos.and personally I think you both full of **** ....Guvnor you lived in Nigeria for seven years I wonder what part of it you lived in. I think you are a racist old toffee nosed bitchass that doesnt deserve a place in this forum. I bet you prefered your time on this cold damp ****ty island of a country to the time you spent in Nig..Your statement "Anything negative that happens is fine by me" How dare you?????? Africa is Africa it is different you know that everyone knows that...If you didnt stick you bitchass pointy nose in there in the first place all these crap wouldnt be happening..If I met you and you made that statement, I would smack you one and you can show your grandchildren..
As for you flypuppy you ignorant bastard...what were you expecting exactlty, servants to kiss your ass...What century are you living in matey??? Grow up and get a ****ing life ....I have never seen a bunch of ignoramus babbons as yourselves ....and yes My parents are Nigerians (surprised, Yes I know how to use a computer) Good day gentlemen..

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live to fly

[The Guvnor]

Jet Jones - I lived in Victoria Island, then because that was unsafe and thanks to the infamous Lagos Go Slows it took hours to get anywhere :rolleyes: so we moved to a compound in Ikoyi; then when that situation got too bad (we had a fleet of armoured Range Rovers and used to get in firefights on a regular basis with the local 'rogues'; some of whom killed one of our FEs and his entire family (him, his wife, and three children - 9 yo boy and girls aged 8 and 11 - the females incidentally were all raped) as they were leaving the country, robbing them of everything - including the clothes they were wearing) and finally had to move to the Sheraton in Ikeja.

Actually, I have spent most of my life in Africa - returning recently from Burundi - and I have a great deal of affection for the place; notwithstanding the fact that I have personally been shot at on several occasions and been in a vehicle that took over 70 rounds once - luckily it was armoured.

I did say that I have a few very good and long standing Nigerian friends - who share my views on the place - but by and large my fondly held view of the place is that every man, woman and child in the country wakes up eackh morning and thinks: "right, who can we rip off today?" Cynical - yes, but also reality? :rolleyes:

Your statement that 'Africa is Africa and its is different' does not for one second excuse it. Nigeria in particular is a country of extremes - the wealthy (and I mean like SUPER wealthy) military boys and their hangers on who have raped and ravaged the country for decades; and the poor (and I mean like SUPER poor) who barely have two pennies (or in their case heavily devalued Naira) to rub together. There is no 'middle ground' to speak of there. There is no excuse for theft, fraud, extortion, and genocide on a grand (continental) scale - yet that is what it seems that you are seeking to do when you say that 'Africa is different'. I would be the first to say that we in the West are wholly wrong to have historically turned a blind eye to what has been going on there - I think that we should have stopped Sankoh, for example, a couple of years back when we had a chance; I think that something should be done soonest about Mugabe before he finally bankrupts Zimbabwe and throws the country into yet another civil war; and I believe that the problems in Angola and the DRC need to be resolved in a manner that benefits the people rather than a few 'fat cats' at the top. Africa has shown that it is incapable of solving its continental problems - there were high hopes that South Africa would be able to perform that policing role, but it too is sinking into the morass of corruption, nepotism and inefficiency that the rest of the continent suffers from.

Jet Jones, if I didn't give a stuff about the people or the continent, then I wouldn't have bothered posting this. I do; and as an African, you should too. So what are *you* doing about it?

Africa! I love it deeply, but 99% of the time its enough to make me http://www.geocities.com/thehugmonster/animations/explodes.gif

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:) Happiness is a warm L1011 :)



[This message has been edited by The Guvnor (edited 13 May 2000).]

[lekkerste]

What effect is this having on operations? I've got an LOS trip coming up and would be really sad if I couldn't go.

[Few Cloudy]

Guv...........I'm beginning to think that you did it!!

[Altostratus]

Ive just spent 2 weeks in Lagos and there is a lot of truth in what both the Guvnor and jet jones have to say, yes the country is terribly corrupt but it also has great wealth in both natural resources and in its people. Africa needs to evolve a political System that is home bred and not imported from the western world or it will continue to fail. Expats who live in Nigeria know what the System is like and are only there for one reason.....THE MONEY. Most African leaders grew up in colonial times and are suffering from 'post-colonial trauma'; the shock of attaining political power which leads to a desire to want more and more unending power and wealth. As an African I believe there is hope for the continent ( just as there was for West in the middle ages), but the Western World is not blameless, in many countries an unworkable political climate was left after independence. An any Westerner who has profited from Africa should have sympathy not a superiority complex.

God dey!

[Flypuppy]

JetJones,

Thank you for your measured and reasoned response.

I worked in Warri and Port Harcourt for 5 years, and in that time I was robbed 3 times twice at gunpoint. I and two collegues were dragged from our vehicle and beaten up on the other occasion.
I bought a dog to provide a certain measure of deterance to prevent our compound from being repeatedly broken into. He was poisoned and died a slow and painful death.

A good friend of mine was shot in the back of the head at a police road block. I was friendly with young woman who was working in Nigeria for the charity Children in Need. Her house was broken into and she was raped. Friends and collegues of mine have been kidnapped. I have been subjected to varying levels of racial abuse which in one instance led to a beating which I still carry the mental and physical scars from.

I never expected servants, far less that they would kiss any part of my anatomy. I live in the same century as you do, I have grown up and I do have a life. As far as I am aware I have not insulted you, or your family. I am not a bastard, I was not born out of wedlock.

I wish you, Mr. Jones a very good day also.

[This message has been edited by Flypuppy (edited 12 May 2000).]

[Freeboot]

Your nonsense never stops, does it "The Guvnor"?

[flapsforty]

Freeboot, could you possibly consider limiting your personal vendetta against The Guvnor to the other two threads wich you have so ably effed up with your sour comments? :mad:

Jet Jones, carry on with the personal insults and prove for even those of us whom have never been to Nigeria that Flypuppy and The Guv are not totally wrong re your countrymen. If you expect to be treated with respect, start by showing some!

Getting off soap box and ducking ..............

[wideboy]

Ahhh, yes! Fond memories of beautiful downtown Lagos, Warri, Port Harcourt ... "Where are de papers? (meaning where's the dash), "You want de spare part now or in tree wiks?" (meaning where's the dash), "You want your staff treated in de hospital you must sign for her", (meaning where's the dash) and so on ad nauseam.

Actually had an occasional laugh there:
Lagos Tower: "XYZ you are cleared for take-off."
F/O calls: "V1, rotate, V2 ..."
Tower (urgently): "XYZ, hold position" ???

Or the day we passed over a Nigerian Air Force heavy chopper inbound to Port Harcourt. On final approach and with clearance to land, said chopper flew straight into final from right, causing go-around. When finally on ground, military jeep drove over to us on apron and hugely smiling mil pilot, smoking cigar, leapt from vehicle, walked up, slapped me on back and leered: "Beat you!!!". Creases me up to think about it.

The Guv is right and jetjones displays precisely the type of attitude I remember during all my worst nightmares.

Hey Ho! :) :) :)

[FREDA]

You can't compare Kano to Lagos. FOr one thing Kano has a very good italian restaurant.

This mishap shouldn't affect anyone flying for BA, KLM, Lufthansa, Air France or Sabena as the domestic terminal is on the far side of the airfield. You drive right by it on the way to the Sheraton.

If I see you in the pub in the Sheraton, make mine a Chapman with a double gin thrown in.

[pigboat]

A student of speling and punctuation, I presume.

[HF8903]

In regard to what was written by FREDA.
Is there really an Italian restaurant in Kano? are the proprietors really Italian?
how is the food..etc.
Being in an aviation forum...I now have to ask if someone:
Can someone give me a visual discription of
the Lagos airport and is the service really that corrupt?

[NdekePilot]

When I flew for Rossair on a DHL contract into the lovely Mohammed Murtalla almost every other day, I used to be hacked off that we had to sit on the freight apron for hours in the humidity, with the view of the beautiful surroundings ruined by the Harmattan dust and the odd cannabilised Nigerian Airways A310, whilst they tried desperately to overload our a/c without us noticing. Now I realise they were doing us a favour....it was probably the safest bloody place to be.
The mind boggles at how long it must take to get start and taxi now!!
Yes, happiness is definately V1 at Lagos.
( Although I was pretty happy when the crew of the 1900 50 metres behind us and just below at 600ft AGL on the same ILS saw us and asked us to go around to make space for them to land/live....nice controlling)

[The Guvnor]

Don't forget the cattle (and people) wandering across the active... the 'rogues' getting into your baggage hold and chucking out luggage for their mates to run off with; the dash you have to pay to every Tom, Dick and Harry to get out of the place (the closer you are to the departure gate, the higher the demands get for the pax!); and last, but not least, that feeling of "whoops, here we go again" as NEPA fails again as you're on short finals.

Ah DNMM ... the happy-clappy brigade's proof that there IS hell!!

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:) Happiness is a warm L1011 :)

[buzz21]

Guv hit the nail on the head with his description of lagos. I flew for nigerian airways for about 1 yr(737 wet lease,83-84). i lived in ikaja(spell check?) at the lagos hilton(not a REAl hilton, they just borrowed the name) i can confirm that lagos is the corrupt,pestilential rathole that Guv so eloquently described. buzz21

[JJflyer]

jet jones... Strong words. Think what you say and rephrase please. There is hardly need for language like yours on this forum.

Perhaps it is not correct to be happy when somebody has a mishap... But you SIR are waaaaaaaaaaaaay out of line.
NASTY NASTY NASTY attitude.

JJ

[This message has been edited by JJflyer (edited 16 May 2000).]

[Feline]

Jet Jones,

I well remember - a few years back now, we had a Nigerian speaker at a banquet. He started his speech by saying, "Ladies and Gentlemen, you should be aware that a disease is sweeping Africa, and if left unchecked, it will destroy us all," (long pause while he took a sip of water and the audience all filled in the missing space), "That disease Ladies and Gentlemen is - corruption ..."

From The Economist, May 13th 2000, Page 42:
Nigeria - Making a bad cop good
One of the policemen escorting an official through Lagos shot at a car that came too close to the convoy. He missed the car but hit a young woman walking on the other side of the road, killing her instantly. The same day, May 5th, five people died when a lorry ran into four buses held up at a toll-booth by policemen demanding a 20 naira ($0.20) bribe from each driver. Youths set a police car on fire and a riot ensued...

Which seems to rather agree with some of the previous posts, so I don't think that I'll add it to my list as a desirable country for either tourist or business visits. :)

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Feline
(I Sit, I Watch, I Smile)

[jet jones]

Well, Well it seems in my absence the chieftains have decided to go to war with their oversized ignorant mouths...Just what I expected.....from your xenophobic lot. I am not one to get personal but when people like yourselves (collective noun for ignorant,self deluded homosapiens)decide it is open season on one's country of origin then I think it becomes slightly personal...Afterall, this is an aviation site and most of my post have been about just that. Guvnor, You never do you I saw your post about refugees....need I say more, you better run along to No 10 before they take over your patch..When I say Africa is different I mean, I mean people think differently and do things differently due factors such as colonialism amongst others...I do not mean the things that happen are acceptable..And corruption, isn't this everywhere??? 0k it might more rife in other areas but it does exist in this country as well and I have seen it..I know I cant walk to your average bobby and hand a tenner but in higher places...Maxwell & co I rest my case. If I was to choose between a police officer taking 20Naira and someone ripping off an entire generation of OAP's I know which one I will choose...The extremes are in the west and You are the babarians....

You people (you know who you are) talk about lack of discipline, about people being shot left right and centre what do have to say about the state of the schools in this country about how children are brought up. A neighbour of had his window smashed in on several occassions by 12 year old louts and all he could do was look on because neither he or the useless police force could nothing because these idiots were underage. Now that speaks volumes about the society in which you live...You get robbed, get beaten, at least they steal your money. What about peadophiles, rapist, muggers of the old and frail, these you would not find in Lagos because there inbred cultural respect for the elderly and the young alike...I beg you gentlemen to look at yourselves before you turn and slander another developing country (actually who coined the term developed?? The west?? surprise surprise.)

Flypuppy, I do apologise you took my comments personally but your comments had the same effect on my persona...and to be honest I dont two ****s if you were born in wedlock or if you fell from the sky the point is you dont post comments such as yours on a public forum and expect everyone to smile and agree with you well some might...Regarding your mugging and racial incident, Well I happen to have suffered the same fate as you. I was in Brighton with some friends minding my own business when these group of nothing to do raggedy ass boys came to us.. They were chatting nonesensical bullcrap as they always do but unlike yourself, I dealt with firmly and ferociously but then I had to vacate the scene as I knew when the incompetent police arrived I will be the one at the back of the van. Now is that fair?? Did it happen in Lagos ?? Well my friend you try and answer those quetions and then you may get my point and if you my friend are of reasonable intellectual capability you will know that I am not caucasian neither do I live in Lagos, Warri, Ikeja or any other city you so unappreciately banter about.

And to you flaps to 40 Is all these getting too much for the grey matter??? I dare say you did not bother to read in DEPTH any of the post of these obfuscated human beings posted. I feel I am justified to post whatever I like on this forum as it free, anonymous and it moderated by moderators and if I respond to a personal commment personally, then so be it but I wouldn't expect you to understand that, afterall you are an FA...and one that hasn't even been to Lagos....Well???

As regards my attitude, I believe its like anyone else's I reacted to a couple of derogatory commments ....and as far as aviation is concerned you haven't all the answers...there was a near miss in Heathrow the other day...I would have thought after Tenerife there shouldn't be any Mishaps of that nature in a Developed country...Care to commment Guvnor????

Good day gentlemen..

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live to fly

[VelvetStrokes]

Jet Jones

I find your prejudiced and short-sighted attitude not uncommon in people who think that the problems in Africa all stem from the 'Colonnial Western Masser' system.

It is you who should wake up and smell the dasies, the problems in Africa today mostly stem from corrupt black Africans, who make war on their own and neighbouring states, purely to keep power. We, in the west, do not force them to starve, rape, pillage and torture. We actually provide them with a considerable amount of support and funding. This is then used, mainly, not for the support and benefit of their / your people, but to fund more violence and corrupt and wealthy lifestyles.

Racism is evil, whether it is perpetuated by white or non-whites. I found your first post to be unwarranted and displayed an enormous chip. I'm not going to go into detail answering your biased and warped view / posting.

I assume, since your second post was fairly erudite that you have benefited from an education, more than likely in this country. You talk of extremes, but we are not murdering wholesale families, cutting limbs of children by children. Yes, we have problems, but we do not blame other countries for them.

It is time that Africans took responsibility for the problems which they and their leaders are causing. Post-colonialism is now decades out of date.

Yes, I agree it is probably time the so-called 'white immigrants' left Africa. Though, some of their families have probably been in Africa for centuries (how long does it take to become part of the country). I would also suggest they and all Western Nations take all their funding with them and stopped all aid to Africa. A harsh, but necessary first step making them see reality.

You admit to not reading the posts, but feel justified in making scurrilous and deeply offensive attacks, (on Guvnor, Flypuppy and Flaps Forty) based on your own misconceptions, having already judged everyone not of your thinking as xenophobic (a charge I level at you, with some justification).

You, yourself, appear to be racist, sexist and with extremist views. Have you thought, that only in a western democracy would you be allowed to make this type of remark. If you stood up and disagreed with the Powers That Be in virtually any non-white run African nation you would be disappeared very quickly.

One last point, since you appear to hate this country and its people and love Africa so much; why are you still here and not living in this wonderland.



[This message has been edited by VelvetStrokes (edited 17 May 2000).]

[newswatcher]

Moderators, any chance of getting this moved to a new forum, the "Jet Jones Blast" forum?

And as for calling the West "barbarians", I guess that JJ is too young to remember Biafra.

JJ, guess you should spend a little time here:

http://www.motherlandnigeria.com/humor.html

[MAX REVERSE]

jet jones.

If you feel that strongly about this "cold damp ****ty island of a country", perhaps you should consider leaving it and getting your education somewhere else.



[This message has been edited by MAX REVERSE (edited 17 May 2000).]

[The Guvnor]

Jet Jones - if you read my post where I discussed refugees (on the BBC1 Airport thread) then you would see that in cases where the need is genuine rather than economic, I strongly support it. This also applies to Africans - I personally arranged the rescue of several political refugees from Nigeria when I was there, flying them out on our aircraft to Europe. In two of those cases, the people concerned had to be bought out of Kiri Kiri.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that corruption exists on a global scale - but that doesn't for one second excuse it, does it? Whether you're talking traffic cops in Lagos extorting N20 or politicials getting £5,000 for asking questions in the House of Commons, its WRONG.

In Africa, and especially in Nigeria, it has become a way of life - as has all sorts of other crime. Everyone is familiar with the Nigerian letter scams, where someone claiming to be from NNPC, the Central Bank, Nigeria Airways etc writes saying that he has squirrelled away millions and all he needs is your account details and a few blank signed letterheads and he'll share his ill-gotten gains with you. Of course, what happens is that the scammer writes to the victim's bank - asking them to transfer the balance to a designated account. Of course, the victim is to blame - he was told directly in the letter that the money is the result of fraud. (The best one of those I ever had even had a forged stamp on it!!)

Then there's the drug culture there - Nigeria is the primary transit point for all drugs coming into Europe. The proportion of Nigerians smuggling Class A drugs into the UK, outweighs *all* other nationalities by a factor of 3:1 - and those are Home Office statistics.

When I first lived in Nigeria (Ibadan), in 1977, the Naira was worth more than the pound. Now, it's worth less than one US cent. What does that say about the government? Nigeria is - or should be - one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Instead, that wealth has been systematically raped by the elite.

I see you are benefitting from a university education here - what happened to the Nigerian universities, not good enough for you, eh? I remember when Ibadan had one of the finest universities in the world - look at it now.

You say "What about peadophiles, rapist, muggers of the old and frail, these you would not find in Lagos because there inbred cultural respect for the elderly and the young alike." That, my friend, is the biggest load of bollox I have ever read!! Incidents of rape and muggings of any vulnerable victime (young, old or anything in between) are extreemly common in Nigeria - I personally witnessed a gang of about 5 teenagers attacking an old woman, trying to make off withb the case she was carrying - luckily a number of other Mamas came along and beat the cr*p out of the teenagers. Flypuppy told you about the charity worker - whose role in Nigeria, I assume, was to help Nigerian children out of their poverty and ill-health - who was raped.

For me, the worst time I had in Nigeria was when I had to identify the bodies of one of my Flight Engineers and his family. From what we were able to piece together afterwards, they had been held up at a roadblock on the way out to Ikeja (whether it was Army, paramilitary police (the ones in the black uniforms), or criminals masquerading as any of the above does'nt make any difference - they are all equally bad) taken from their vehicle, severely beaten, and robbed of everything - including the clothes they were wearing. The FE's wife and two young daughters (aged 8 and 11 (so much for the "cultural respect" accorded to children) were raped, and had their throats slashed. I never want to go through anything like that again.

Yes, Europe has its bad apples - you only have to look at the recent Balkans situations to see that - but for sheer unmitigated evil, nothing, but nothing, beats Africa. Where else would you have animals such as those in Sierra Leone, Liberia, Angola, the DRC, Uganda, Burundi, Rwanda, Zimbabwe, Nigeria??

Tellingly, Jet Jones, I see that you have no intention of coming up with any suggestion as to how the lives of ordinary Africans can be improved. Like that charming chap in Zimbabwe, Hitler Hunzve, you expect us Oyinbo to pick up the tab, perhaps?

Newswatcher - I see that Jet Jones has already been to the hilarious site you provided, and posted the following autobiographical account about his time in these wet and windy isles:

I did not come to England to take pictures of Big Ben or tour London Bridge. I just wanted to get paid and get even
with those colonial people. With a name like Ogundele Kayode Omobrukutu, I could not even buy a bus pass let alone
open a bank account.

This is my story....

It took me 6 months to study the system, but I still could not figure out my squares and circus's. I could not travel from
Leicester Circus to Oxford Square without getting lost.

I was at YMCA (Young Money Chasing African) when I joined FRAUD (Fine Rich Africans United in Deals). It took
me 3 months to attain my ACCA (Advanced Certificate for Criminal Africans) and I needed an MBA (Major Bank
Account) to do my first HND (Heavy Nigerian Deal).

I arranged to meet this guy at Animal and Something, I mean Elephant and Castle. We were supposed to meet at
10.00am. I got there at 11.30am and he turned up at 1.30pm.

He pulled up in a Mercedes 500SL with a private number plate - 419 ADE. He was a definite Nigerian, he had it all -
leather jacket in summer, air condition on full blast with his roof and windows down whilst smoking cigar and choking on
his smoke just to impress me. Being a fellow Nigerian I was more than impressed.

He introduced himself as Adepoju Kunle Babatunde and asked me to call him Ade or Babs. He spoke with a strong
Nigerian accent but he messed the whole thing up by slanging - he sounded like a Canadian born Chinese living in
Germany and studying French.

I had not been in the country for long but I could tell that Omo(my man) was trying hard to be British.

After hanging with Ade for about 2 months I became an OBE (Opportunist Bank Employee) and specialised in BBC
(Breaking Bank Codes). Money was flowing and I wanted more so I did my PhD (Passport Handling Degree) and
became an FBI (Fraudster Bringing Immigrants).

My status....

I had a BMW 328is convertible and a Porsche 911 with a private plate - 911 OMO and living in a council flat and
signing on. I went to Moonlighting every Friday and drank champagne and danced to music supplied by DJ Pace and
Skills. I became foolish - I remember one night I spent over £1000 on just champagne at the club and had no money for
petrol so I walked home.

My downfall....

Greed and selfishness inevitably led to my downfall. I got involved with a CIA (Cash Investing Asshole) and we did a
couple of GMTs (Good Money Transfers) but he later turned out to be a CID (Cockroach in Disguise). I was under
surveillance and I did not even know.

I left the NHS (Nigerian Housing Scheme) early that morning with about 12 different cheque books to go and do my
business. They followed me unto the high road and it was then it hit me that something was wrong.

I could not leave all that evidence in my car so I started chewing my cheque books. I ate 8 before they pulled me over.

They read me my rights and all that crap and all I could say was - OGA, water please!

------------------
:) Happiness is a warm L1011 :)

[jet jones]

Velvet,

Some good points made but I am at pains to explain that I am not in support of some of the things African leaders get up to and I am even ashamed at some of the things they get up to, but that does't give anybody the right to be derogatory and it will a sin of the highest order if I ( a person of African decent )did not enlighten the ignoramus amongst us. Regarding my education, I did my secondary education in Africa and am I glad I did, with the state of secondary education in this country. I was taught mainly by English men who were dedicated to the cause and I can bet my bottom dollar, I wouldnt have received that kind of education in this country except if I went to Eton. I have benefited from University education in this country and I am still doing so with my Msc. why shouldn't I, this country is well renouned for its tetiary education system I wouldnt dream of going anywhere else...I like most white Africans was born here so like you I have the right to the best education possible..However, unlike my white bretheren, I exercise diplomacy, I see other homosapiens as equals, I do not dominate or exploit. Examples south Africa and Zimbabwe...3/4 of the biggest therefore most profitable farms are white owned...why ???? In a country where they make 1-3% I say amazing..Now the truth they are probably better managers..but crap politicians...When you reap reward from the soil you give back so as to keep reaping..Now before the ignoramus amongst jump on the band wagon, I do not condone the way Mugabe is going about things. It is people like him tha t give Africa the bad name it now carries about like a plague.

Regarding posts, You have your facts wrong. I am an avid reader of this forum and I have at no point in time stated that I do not read posts...I am also an avid contributor as my number of posts suggest and with your defence of these people, I do not know and I do not wish to make their acquaintance. The only thing I have to go by is the way they present themselves on this I stress PUBLIC forum. I have had step down low and dirty to their level as that is the only language they will understand.(I refer to the Guvnor's recent stereotypical bullcrap) So I hope you can understand the nature of my responses...Lagos will not speak for itself. It is people of my generation that can right a wrong and begin to make any changes no matter how small to rectify the self inflicted disease that has a grip on the dark continent.

Guv - Take a step and look at your recent post. It is obvious you are an old biggoted racist imbecile. You are incapable of coherent logical presentation. How in the blazes did you become the CEO of a company? Well maybe you are your only employee or maybe your delusionary state is worse than I first thought.. You claim to know and my name for that matter..If I was born in London and I dont know where Oxford circus is then....Any your stereotypical psychbabble does not suprise me as only a man of your intelligence will have such vocabulary...But I have to say it was funny I almost laughed at your pathetic attempt to have a sense of humour.

Good day gentlemen.

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live to fly

[JJflyer]

Again you manage to do it jet jones...
How about trying not to call people names and keep your posts civilized.

What good you had in your post is completely overshadowed by your foul language.
So instead of throwing words out of your piehole, hit the start button get the little brain running at warp speed and think what you say.

JJ

[jet jones]

Newswatcher,

I do apologise for the denigration of your post but alas, you the Guvnor and flypuppy to
blame for their derogatory comments. I came into the thread to learn about what happened in Ikeja only to find you know what. Whilst I was not alive when Biafra took I know as much as anyone alive except for people who really lived it ...that is what history is for. It was like any civil war, comparable to what your forefathers did to the scots/Irish...or the verbal Northern farmer southern yuppie situation.

Max Reverse: Why should I miss out on what is arguably the best educational system because the Wx is indiferent. It is no secret my friend that it hails in may ....but I know where I will retire....

Good day fellow aviators/enthusiasts

[flapsforty]

Jet Jones,
Both Velvet and The Guvnor have most ably addressed some of your points. From reading your last post I get the impression that you haven't bothered reading all the posts in this thread before you jump in fists flailing, so I'm wondering if those of us answering you are wasting their time here? But perhaps Velvet and The Guv', like me, enjoy a bit of sparring just for the sake of keeping up our argumenting skills? And perhaps you just pick those bits out of other people's posts that you can use to fuel your apparent rage at white Europeans, instead of risking having to face the fact that we are in fact none of us the racist monsters of your fantasies?

And to you flaps to 40 Is all these getting too much for the grey matter???

I'm certainly no Einstein, but as this thread contains neither advanced technical discussion nor complicated scientific argument, I feel it's within the range of my mental capacities. (I also try to get my prepositions right :))


I dare say you did not bother to read in DEPTH any of the post of these obfuscated human beings posted.

Unlike your good self, I did bother to read the other posts on this thread. Which lead to some discussion between The Guv, Flypuppy, and myself. And you know what? We managed to disagree without stooping to personal insult. As to the contributors being "obfuscated"; I would like to say that while I haven't agreed with everything written here, most posts have been clear, well reasoned and polite. The same can not be said about your posts, and more's the pity. (for you, not us)

I feel I am justified to post whatever I like on this forum as it free, anonymous and it moderated by moderators

Can't argue with feelings, but wouldn't you say that making use of something which is both free and anonymous carries with it certain responsibilities, rather than a freedom to abuse it?

and if I respond to a personal commment personally, then so be it but I wouldn't expect you to understand that, afterall you are an FA...and one that hasn't even been to Lagos....Well???


post 13 on this very thread, made by me:

Flypuppy, i've been to Lagos and Kano more times than i care to remember. And yes, easy to come up with bad stuff about both places.
Still, why gloat?

You wouldn't expect me to understand something because I'm an FA?
:)
First of all, I am a woman, I am a wife and a mother but I have worked for almost 20 years as a flight attendant. I've traveled the far corners of the earth, I've seen more beauty than most people ever will and I've served thousands of travellers over the years, which has taught me the humility I lacked as a teenager. During all those endless night stuck in a metal tube at 35.000 ft, some passengers have shared with me their ideas, thoughts, feelings, sorrows and achievements. And by sharing their lives, they've enriched mine. I feel privileged that I can live and work the way I do.
Working as a flight attendant has also taught me to deal with the rudeness, arrogance, ignorance, maliciousness and pure evil some people feel free to display on an aircraft. This has given me the ability to remain pleasant, polite and un-ruffled in the face of even the worst d!ckheads.
Which is the reason you Mr Jetjones, just make me smile.................... :)

[OneWorld22]

This "discussion" is far too heated guys. jetjones, you're just going to have to quit with the personal insults if you want to make a good argument. I know you're angry because you're passionate about your country and I respect you for that. We're all the same, we all get hot under the collar when someone else from outside attacks our the country where we were born and raised.

You do have valid points to make, just tone it down.
And sorry Guv, I have to tackle you on the assertion that the worst and most evil things happen in Africa. It was only 55-60 years ago that a wealthy, extrememly cultured and well educated population of a large European country, tried to wipe out an entire race of people just because of their religion. Where in the history of this planet has their ever been a more vile or evil act??

[Self Loading Freight]

Flapsforty --

<applause>

R

[The Guvnor]

Flapsforty, who were you with in Nigeria, BCal/BA? You didn't join in any of our wild nights at the Sheraton bar, did you, where we did the Seven Dwarves around the lobby floor - usually after the Hash!

OneWorld22 - you are of course absolutely correct. I was just trying to cover the post colonial times. Indeed, I watched with perplexity, horror and outrage a documentary the other night on C4 with some geeky American whose primary interest in life seemed to be to invent refined methods of killing people try and justify that because he coundn't find any hydrogen cyanide residue inside brickwork of demolished buildings, there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz.

Also, I should have included on my list South Africa - for their senseless and inhuman apartheid policies. How many Einsteins, Beethovens, Michale Jordans et al did they lose out on through their discriminatory policies? We'll never know - and unfortunately the new government seems to be intent on doing exactly the same thing.

However, in answer to your questions of where on this planet there has been more vile and inhuman acts that the Holocaust then looking at the past 50 years, I'd say the USSR, Cambodia, Nigeria, DRC/Zaire, Rwanda, Burundi, Chile, Nicaragua, Angola, Bosnia and Sierra Leone.

As Stalin said: when one person dies, it's a tragedy: when a million die, it's a statistic.

------------------
:) Happiness is a warm L1011 :)

[VelvetStrokes]

One World 22 I doubt very much whether Jet Jones is passionate about his country. He is passionate about presenting his point of view. He has insulted, offended and villified people he only sees through his bigoted and racist mindset. He then blames others for his composition.

I have a suggestion, but I doubt whether Jet Jones will take up my offer.

Take all the white people in all the African nations and repatriate them (those who were born there, those whose parents, grandparents and great grandparents were born there and those who have worked hard to make a life for themselves and their offspring). We will leave all their belongings and possessions and just uplift them from their roots going back possibly centuries.

In return, we repatriate all the Africans born and bred here, often going back decades. We return them to their origins, and let them fend for themselves. Leave all they have worked for and possess. No aid, no support and definitely no returning to Western Democratic freedoms.

I would find this offensive, as I find what is going on in the African states offensive.

I can only thank god, that I and my friends are colourblind when it comes to people. Jet Jones you are judged not on your colour, but on your attitude. I could not even tell you which of my friends are white, black, non-white, red, blue, yellow, pink or little green martians, because to me it truly does not matter.

One world 22, you think that the life of one person is less than the lives of millions. Why? Why is Hitler to be considered worse than Idi Amin, or other African leaders who have seized power and then massacred hundreds of thousands of people. How many people have died in Africa of stavation, torture, war, famine and all the other ills which could so easily have been avoided in a bountiful and beautiful country.

Jet Jones attacked without provocation Flypuppy, The Guvnor and Flaps Forty, in the most objectionable manner.

He then screams foul, because they have the audacity to respond. He picks and chooses which parts of the posts to answer and because he can allegedly dispprove some parts, all then are false in his opinion.

It is not people like Mugabe who give Africa a bad name, it is people like Jet Jones. Those intellectuals who claim to love Africa, but want to live elsewhere.

Jet Jones, I give you a challenge - return to Africa - fight for a better world in which all Africans can live as equals. Come back in one year or five or ten (if you are still alive and healthy) and lecture us on the ills of the western world. I can assure you we will once again give you a better and more courteous hearing than you give us.

Evil will flourish, because good men do nothing. Good men do nothing, because they are afraid of upsetting people like Jet Jones, who has apparently contributed nothing of any worth to African Society. By his own admission he lives here and is being educated here. He displays, though an appalling ignorance of British history.

Jet Jones, please don't claim to treat all people as equals, you display not only hypocracy, but an amazing arrogance (as well as forgeting what you wrote). You denigrated a very hard-working and initially sympathetic person in Flaps Forty. Why, because you felt it was okay to put down someone you considered inferior ie a female FA.

The only thing that is superior about you JJ is the chip on your shoulder. Arguably the largest I have ever encountered. Once you put it down, you may discover that the western society you so despise is actually a lot more tolerant than you deserve. Which is why you are able to write unpleasant and ill-conceived postings in safety and comfort. Because matey we spent a long and costly war fighting for freedom. It may be history to you, it is to most of us. But we still value something you seem unable to grasp -

WHETHER OR NOT WE AGREE WITH YOU, WE WOULD STILL FIGHT TO THE DEATH TO GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO SAY IT


I wish you well, but feel that in the end we all get what we deserve. Remember, we reap what we sow.

[Flypuppy]

I do not wish to enflame this thread any further.

Mr. Jones at no time did I insult you. Your reactions to all that has been written here have probably done you more harm than maybe you even realise. I am sure I don't come out of this looking too good either, and maybe some people do find my comments offensive, but we were talking about a poorly built building that would appear to have been deliberatly set on fire. Can you imaging the comments that would appear on this self same forum if The CAA offices at Gatwick went up in flames one night?

If any of my comments offended anyone who reads this forum, with the exception of Jet Jones, I offer my unreserved apologies to you.

I shall take no further part in this discussion.


[This message has been edited by Flypuppy (edited 17 May 2000).]

[The Guvnor]

JetJones - sorry, I missed your response tom my earlier reply there. I am afraid you need to brush up on your English old chap - or as Flapsforty suggests, you don't read the posts properly. The tongue in cheek item I appended to my posting was lifted from the site to which Newswatcher kindly provided the url (and which I thoroughly recommend you visit in order to lighten up - and before you go on about how it was created by wrinkly old racists I'd say it's definitely written (along with the story I posted!!) by Nigerians!). This was made clear by my saying "Newswatcher - I see that Jet Jones has already been to the hilarious site you provided, and posted the following autobiographical account about his time in these wet and windy isles:".

Incidentally, are you admitting that your name is Ogundele Kayode Omobrukutu, perchance?

I note you "exercise diplomacy" - this is obviously the same type of diplomacy demonstrated recently by commander of the Nigerian UN contingent in Sierra Leone. Are you by any chance related?

You asked why the majority of farms in Zimbabwe are white owned (the majority of the balance being owned by cronies of Mugabe). The reason is simple. These are commercial farms, and provide 80% of the GNP of Zimbabwe - without the commercial farms, the country will be even more bankrupt than it is already. The delared intention of your fellow diplomacy student, Hitler Hunzve, is to operate them on the basis of collectivisation - a discredited system tried (and failed) by the Soviets. (Of course, the decent farms will go to cronies of Mugabe...)

I showed my post to a Nigerian friend of mine, who happens to own a number of companies there (and here) and is a pretty serious financial player. His reply (and description of you) is unprintable (largely because the PPRuNe system would reduce it to asterisks) but the gist is that it's people like you that give Nigeria a bad name; that you should lighten up and if I want he can arrange for guest quarters for you in Kirikiri next time you visit the place.

Want to take him up on his kind offer? :)

------------------
:) Happiness is a warm L1011 :)

[VelvetStrokes]

Flypuppy, I'm with you - this too shall be my last posting - I would have edited mine, but felt a new one would serve.

Jet Jones the only person who comes out of this badly is yourself - and think on this
Only those who have a surfeit of mire can spare any to throw. You received back only what you dished out and then in moderation. The fact that so much came back is a measure of what you threw.

Flypuppy, I doubt anyone was offended by you and I seriously doubt that Jet Jones has been offended.

Nuff said - I too have lived in different climes and been subjected to different cultures. I treated them with interest and courtesy and learnt from them. But it made me realise that the British (on the whole) are an extremely tolerant people



[This message has been edited by VelvetStrokes (edited 17 May 2000).]

[FREDA]

HF8903,

There most certainly is an Italian restaurant in Kano. It's called Il Castillo and the food is pretty decent. I particularly recommend the Scallopine al Limone (unless you have an ethical problem about veal) and the pizzas.

Rumour has it there is an italian lurking somewhere in the kitchen but I never met him. It's more likely to be a Lebanese business. It's probably the best restaurant in Kano although the Palace chinese restaurant is pretty good too. There used to be a good indian too but it's really gone downhill. Kaduna has a nice indian, but the tribal violence can really ruin your appetite.

[Jetlegs]

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif Totally Amazing Thread! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif

"From under which stone
did Jetjones
come crawling?"

:)

[normal_nigel]

You can take the person out of the bush but not the bush out of the person. If you are tribal thats inbedded in you and you cannot get away from it. national borders don't necessarily matter.I have no experience of West Africa but lots in east Africa, although I suspect that there's little difference except that Nigerians are generally less civilized (going from friends experiences in aviation and oil).
Africa in the modern era is a hotbed of corruption, violence and pillage, not by big bad whitemen but Chieftans and corrupt leaders controlling the state and the money. Mugabe is a prime example. I recently saw him return from dinner. 10 police cars 18 bikes 2 armoured cars an ambulance and 3 limos. Land reform ? My **** . palm greasing and obscene corruption.

Nigel

[jet jones]

Amazing,Amazing, Amazing......

Not one bad word against against the Guv's stereotypical regurgitation...Velvet, I take it this is acceptable then....welll just as I expected.

Flaps - I read your post with interest and I am delighted for you. However you cannot blame my post because I was merely reacting to the iniatial post which did not seem logical to me. Your post said I was being overly abusive and at no point in time did you comment on the post by the Guv or flypuppy. You claim to be flexing your argumentative skills but to me, every argument has to two sides to it. You concentrated on one side. That is both unfair and illogical hence my reply. You are probably a better than your first post potrayed you to be but you contributed to a debate at crucial point and your post was, to say the least biased...To call me a racist would be a waste of time because only people like the Guv can have the dedication, resource and time to hate so much. I have neither the time nor the inclination to waste my precious time on such subversive matters such as colour...besides my girlfriend of many years happens to be caucasian.

oneworld- Haaaa you are breath of fresh air. I agree I have gone over the top with my language at some point but it was merely a bait to get the Guvnor talking. I was beginning to lose faith in this forum as it increasingly looked like everyone had a one track mind(the inability to see an argument from more than one side). Thanks for reminding the gov that worse things have happened in his backyard.

Velvet- I like the indirect way you put your points across. Quite logical but with that hint facism just to drive the point home. Notice I havent accused of being anything than yourself. I wish you wouldnt question my passion for my country of origin (I use of origin because although I wasnt born there my skin is slightly darker than yours, and my extended family still lives there so there is a connection). What you dont understand is, this is not about you or I. It is a lot bigger than that. It is about a country I care about, a country I wish to prosper. So dear friend the day I turn a blind eye to derogatory comments like the ones promulgated by our obfuscated friends will the day I cease to exist as an individual. Now I might strike you as someone with no sense of humour, someone who cant enjoy a harmless joke but I refer to Flap's amazing post in Jetblast I quote " A trip with the captain". I thoroughly enjoyed it as it was a good read with a good measure of realism. It verged on the border of fantasy..I laughed and shared my laughter with friend who laughed even more but there was nothing funny about the comments mentioned above they were slandarous and even insulting to any who had anything to do with the country. If a person who wanted to go to lagos came on this site they would have been seriously turned off. No matter how bad the country, it does not need negative and ill informed projections of its affairs especially at a crucial stage of transfer to diplomatic?? rule.

You question my knowledge of British history, now, I dont know how much you know but for me reading about the past of this isle has been somewhat enjoyable yet intriguing. I went on a little tour of cornwall and the surrounding areas and i was aghast at what I discovered, the treachery, barbaric laws, incest and even bravery of individuals that confronted me at Bodmin jail amongst others. One is almost forced to draw the conclusion that you taught us all we knew...Now this leads nicely into your argument about "Colonial Masters mentality" from your last post. I say to you look at what is happening in Angola (French), Sierra Leone (British)There is a new term brewing and it is called a PROTECTORATE... You see I love the english language it is a direct representation of the English, how perfect a match can you get. With the knowledge of it that I have I can say things and then not say them depending on who is listening and how they listen....amazing isn't. Now what is a protectorate..?? I hear you say...Foreign legion, stabilise province, return to democratic rule and then leave...Leave??? But then all the goodies Diamond in the case of Sierra Leone.. Now I call it Neo-colonialism. you know, a newer version of the old. so you r lovely idea as much as I like it, will never work the west would never leave the dark continent(too many goodies and all the choas might come back to haunt anyway) African leaders will probably never learn and those of us over with a bit of grey are too busy learning how its done from to you to leave... so in the real world, you will have to go way back to your forebears, you know, the guys with the ships and bibles and tell them to stop and leave the guys who wear leaves well alone. You gloat about how white africans have lived and toiled for centuries and in reciprocation you many decades about Africans living on these isles what delusionary arrogance you depict. My ancestors have toiled these land and beyond for centuries but not for their benefits but for yours and mine. You mention the freedom you fought for but how many African/jamaican/indian lives were lost fighting for this same freedom you mention how quickly you forget how quickly your fathers have forgotten. Lord Kitchener was exemplary example the jamaicans had beg to fight for the queen but they wont let them and even when they were allowed in they were used as transport for the white troops on the frontline.. Oh no we couldnt possibly let the Germans see us using inferior aid.(British pride/tolerance???) And then blurted the words provocation ....I wasn;t provoked..Are you serious?? My name wasnt mentioned personally but what is Lagos is mine because if I am asked where my parents are from I would Lagos....Is like me calling all northerners stupid. I dont know where you are from but if you were from Yorkshire I'm sure you will be offended. It is nonesensical to say I dispise the West. I live in it..I have a cacausian partner..I believe you are the hardliner with a suttle camoflage but I am not fooled nor am I blinkered. I am glad I have recieved I have received all the responses that came my name. I am neither shaken nor stirred and I shall continue to reply as I see fit as my underlying ideology dictates.

Flypuppy- I know i deserve no apologies from
you. You probably wouldnt get one from me either and to me it just proves your shallowness of being. But I do hope next time You will keep such denigrating and radical views to your living and not a public forum. I guess that is why we have political correctness and gummtion as Logical thinking human beings.

And to you Guv I am short of words....Your friend.....well does he really exist?? or is he deliusionary?? if he does exist, then the world is not safe...two of you....two comopanies....poor souls working .....oh gosh!!!!!! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

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live to fly

[This message has been edited by jet jones (edited 18 May 2000).]

[flysundun]

Guv, Velvet, flaps, puppy, it is absolutely clear that the moral argument is yours, game set and match. So take a deep breath, no I mean a really deep breath and don't reply. As an aside I wonder whether jj has ever been to Nigeria.

[bateleur]

This thread is surreal ...

Because a terminal burned down
we’ve had the spittle-spraying insults
the quietly reasoned responses
and details of the best Italian food in Kano.

Love it.

Now, how about a discussion on the safest way to get petrol out of a pipeline?

[Jack The Kipper]

Tell you what JJ, old chap - if the Portuguese find out that the French are messing around in Angola they're going to be seriously pi$$ed off.

I think quite a few of your other sweeping statements are a long way wide of the mark too. Hope that doesn't make me a racist colonial oppressor.

Pip pip!

[jet jones]

UMMMM now that it seems things are a little quiet, I can say I have made my point and we can all take something away from all of these. flysundun, whoever made you a referee?? Are you F.A qualified?? (opps was that funny)Damn, I am beginning to laugh at my own jokes..... On a more serious note I doubt if the Guv will take any notice of your Tai chi breathing techniques you see my friend, it can be an uncontrollable urge in some persona's to divulge nonesensical crap.
On a closing note, I hope no one has taken personal. Its been a great debate where I have had to put forward my point of view sometimes heavily....so folks next time I post an aviation related question I hope we can all be diplomatic enough to answer the question as asked.....

Gooday gentlemen.

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live to fly

[FREDA]

Is that it? I never even got to mention the Thai place in Maiduguri!

[JetBok]

Hey! Jetjones!!

If anyone like you came up with stuff like this in South Africa in the good old days we'd give you a REALLY GOOD DAY, hey!!

In the meantime, the Guv, Flypuppy, Flaps and so on are worth a million of you, boet!!

Oh, and one last thing... http://geocities.com/r337m0nk3y/dvv/boid.gif

[jet jones]

Haaaaaa, Jetbok my dear friend where have you been???? My guess from your profile is you are a hardline south African Redneck....
By the good old days I guess you mean apartheid south Africa when you segregated the Niggers....I am sorry the honey has stopped dropping, I bet you are feeling the pinch now. Tell me how does it feel to share a restaurant with an African in South Africa???? If you can answer correctly and logically then I shall continue this thread, failure to do so means I will not waste precious time on the likes of you, rather I will get my bully boys to deal with you in the language you understand. So fellow logical diplomatic and fair PPruner's is this guy out of line or what????? I shall expect this guy to be cut down to size by the time I return, failure to do so will be very very dissapointing to say the least....somehow this isn't funny anymore....velvet, your name comes to mind...do the right thing.

I rest my case....

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live to fly

[JJflyer]

JetBok.. I like the last face there.

And to jetjones again... you didn't just cross the fine line not just once but on every post.
This thread didn't turn me away from Nigeria but visiting there did. Unfortunately then I didn't have a choise then but as now do and I choose not to go there.
And when you said that nobody ever commented Guv's post. Well take your eye in the hand and read through post again as I commented his writing.
This is not a colonial or racial issue. Issue is that you have a bad attitude bad manners and uncivilized way of writing and thus you are badly in the need of a good @@S whopping.

JJ the Colonialist

[Was that for us?]

We all know that Jetbok is really THE GUVNOR
so he isnt a Redneck at all and his experiences in Africa, well the above crud says it all.

[Was that for us?]

We all know that Jetbok is really THE GUVNOR
so he isnt a Redneck at all and his experiences in Africa, well the above crud says it all.

[212man]

God, I can't believe I've missed this thread till now. Great stuff!

Bet I'm the only one here to have actually seen the terminal while it was still smoking. The nice thing was that plane spotters can now look straight through to the apron, from the road, with nothing to block their view.

According to the press, "services will continue as normal"! I think the irony was lost in that statement.

I'm going back up there on Wednesday, by which time, no doubt, work will have begun in earnest to repair the damage. Or not.

Personally, I'd put money on it being Julius Berger, keen to start work on the new domestic terminal which they are going to build.

Keep up the good work Guv, Flypuppy et al.

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Another day in paradise

[V1 Rotate]

:rolleyeyes:Guv,
Did I read you right in your post of 12 May. Did you buy your ATPL from Nancy by any chance http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif
V1 Rotate

[The Guvnor]

Freeboot ... sorry, Wasthatfor us ... unlike you I don't hide my identity! No I am not JetBok.

V1 Rotate - Nope, Nancy is the girl at CAA Pretoria - mine cost US$100 from a bod at the Ministry of Aviation, Lagos. Actually, I'm pretty sure that Nigerian licences would still cost dash even if they're kosher!! :) :)

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:) Happiness is a warm L1011 :)

[Was that for us?]

THE GUVNOR
How can you critisise "Fake ATP's in one forum and admit to buying one in another.
So I guess it was OK for you as your very special or what?

[The Guvnor]

WTFU - I can criticise because unlike most people, I have indeed been there, done that and got the T Shirt - so I can see that what seemed like a jolly good wheeze at the time could well have had serious consequences.

There's only one way to do things - the right way!

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:) Happiness is a warm L1011 :)

[Was that for us?]

THE GUVNOR
WOW do you really mean that, I mean its so gallant of you.

[Was that for us?]

THE GUVNOR.
After what date did you adopt this philosophy
of only doing things the right way?

[V1 Rotate]

Sounds Like we're all getting off the point here Guys. I believe that the main enemy of our industry in Africa is the good old FACTOR KILO
V1 Rotate

[Was that for us?]

V1 rotate
Whats it your saying?

[CargoRat2]

V1 Rotate,
BWAHAHAHAHA :)

[ehwatezedoing]

A curious thread here. Sorry, I'm late on it.

I just wanted to add for all, if you remember how many centuries were needed to build countries in Europe !? ...huh !?

And that most of the border in Africa were draw on a map in Europe few decades ago without any regards for all those "ethnies" relationship. A bad beginning don't you think !?.

Do I know what I am speaking about ???
Certainly not everything but a little, I'm a caucasian raised in Africa and kicked out from here, thank you Chad!, much better than a AK hole in the head. I learned a lot with them, yes!...a lot of nice things, much more than my kids in front of "Pokémon".

But,sorry JJ, I will never, never put my sweet a$$ in Zaire or Nigeria. Only hard dictator can hold all this madness (and I'm not sure about it).....

sad but true...


[This message has been edited by ehwatezedoing (edited 24 May 2000).]

[props_are_for_boats]

Well if you do not know about the " K " factor, then you have obviously never lived South of the equator!!!!!

[ehwatezedoing]

And you don't need to be south of the equator to get some of them pointed in your face my friend!!! :rolleyes:

[jet jones]

Just out of curiosity gents, what is the K factor?

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live to fly

[The Guvnor]

Regrettably, Jet Jones, it's an example of the sort of racism you (incorrectly) accused me of.

Care to answer the points I raised in my various posts yet?

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:) Happiness is a warm L1011 :)

[Was that for us?]

Oh I get it you refer to that awful word used by the Arabs to descibe a heathen
_._ ._ .._. .._. .. _._ I hope no ones offended chaps.

[V1 Rotate]

GUVNOR,
Not Rasism. ETHNIC REALISM!!
V1 Rotate.

[the wizard of auz]

J.J At the risk of sounding like some of those really long nasty names that you call people,
(oh, who gives a 5hit) JJ you're the example of why your godforsaken ****hole of a country (not the one you were born in) is such a godforsaken ****hole of a country.
and as for using your precious time, what else would you be doing?. Organising your "bully boys"? as you put it.
I'm not a racist or ignorant as you're about to call me (you seem to repeat yourself alot)but surely the facts speak for themselves, and the above mentioned place is like it is because thats how people like you (although not as educated(Hmm I like white education even though they're all really bad people))made it.
You could go over there and get rich at your peoples expense with all them big words that you learnt in the system you so obviously hate, like all the others before you.
if you were over here and carried on like that, you would get taught a few lessons and they wouldn't be english lessons either.
Pi55 Off You Clown!!!!.
How is it that most places with a worldwide reputation for rape,murder,extortion,theft,ECT to the degree that most of these African countries are, are always governed by wealthy indigenous people whilst the population starve.
take out the people that are enterprising enough and do a bit of hard labour (suprisingly enough, usually white and providing the majority of the places income) and these places would consume themselves in the corupt and evil way they see as the normal way to do things.
P.S.JJ, you can call me all the stuff I know your going to call me and I dont give a flying **** cause I'm still a much nicer person than YOU. :)
You might notice that Im not being politicaly correct, but A: who gives a 5hit. B: thats how I see things and I only call it as I see it.(names never killed anybody) Its a shame more people don't do it like this then we all know where we stand instead of hiding behind bull5hit political correctness.

[This message has been edited by The wizard of auz (edited 27 May 2000).]

[Gunship]

G' day Ladies and Gents (sit down jet jones). Well talking about the "K" Factor : The guy that sorted out the airport building. Please have a go at Connakry and a few others in West Africa. We sure could do without the bribe and corruption (open) in Africa. Well all the best fronm the South. As jet jones will probably inflict me into apartheid as well. Well cheers all and cheers JACK (jet jones). http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif

[Skybiter]

C'mon guys, don't encourage him. JJ's alligator mouth will just outrun his chipmunk brain and start the whole sorry cycle of abuse off again. Maybe it's time to put a lock on this thread or what?

[The Guvnor]

I wonder if he got the jumpseat on the Virgin flight he was after - and if so, what the VS crew thought of him in real life? I have to say that he sounded (fairly) sane and reasonable on some of the other threads. He claims that he's just proud to be Nigerian and he's defending his homeland.

In that case, why's he still here?

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:) Happiness is a warm L1011 :)