Refuelling with patient on board air ambulance

[pointer41]

Kindly help with the issue of "refuelling with a patient on board an air ambulance." The rules (91.07.13) state that an aircraft must be evacuated when refuelling, but also makes provision for the exception. The problem is that sometimes the refuellers (this was a bit up north) did not want to accept that the patient remained in the aircraft during refuelling.

Plain common sense tells me to do the things least likely to kill the patient, but can anyone point me towards promulgated procedure / law, or expand on 91.07.13? Part 138, Air Ambulance Services, does not adress the issue.

Any ideas, did I miss stuff in the CATS & CARS? All I could fall back on was Cdr's discretion.

[Contract Dog]

dont quote me here but I think there is a provision if the pax seat belts are undone (hard when you are tied to a stretcher) and the doors are open and there is a fire truck standing by.

Dog

[diesel862]

During my time with a LJ45 operator flying broken body flights we were advised that we can do refuelling with appropriate fire coverage ie parking and with a fire tender on location at all times - although it was always avoided unless an operation diversion happened.

Vince

[pointer41]

Thanks, it happened once when the specific aircraft we had, did not have the legs required. Thus, hopefully that situation can be avoided in future, but talking to guys I did discover that there is a piece of paper you can have to allow refuellers to look the other way: a $100 note! :}

[sidestick driver]

In the airline world, we are allowed to refuel with pax onboard, and for this matter, even with patients, however, various rules need to be applied.
Seat belt sign off, and extra door is armed and manned by a cabin crew, the door must free of obstacles etc....A few things come into play, even sometimes you need to a have a fire truck near by.
Considering that at times that it can take 35 minutes to refuel 100 tons, and longer for more, these also cause problems for terminals and turn arounds, so it is a calculated risk, entirely up to the Captain.
These rules are governed by airlines, airport authorities, etc...most limiting of course applicable.

[Gerund]

Part 138 does address the issue.

SA CATS 138.04.2 requires the Manual of Procedure to contain specific policies and procedures regarding, inter alia:
'Refuelling with medical personnel and/or patient on board'.

So, the first stop in such a case is the Manual of Procedure.
SA CARS 91.07.13 cannot be overidden unless the SACAA grant an exception and any such exception would be referred to in aforesaid Manual of Procedure.

I would have thought that most Air Ambulances are not using aviation gasoline or wide-cut type fuel. If they are, get a new medivac policy! Accordingly, it shouldn't pose any problem refuelling with a patient on board, or indeed any passengers, just refer to the Manual of Procedure for detail.

Of course, if the refuellers refuse to refuel, without patient disembarkation, there is little one can do apart from using normal diplomacy.

[Toppled AH]

Pointer 41, not sure what your experience is flying outside SA but in Africa things can and do deviate from the norm, yes the law stipulates alot of things that should be done but sometimes crews must make decisions that "bend the rules" slightly in order to get the job done quickly and as safe as possible.

The law also says passengers can be on the a/c while refueling but seat belts must be turned OFF.

Besides have you stuck exactly the ALL the rules that is mentioned in the law.

[chandlers dad]

I flew medivac for over 15 years and we had this pop up many times. If there was a fire truck in the area they would "stand watch" while we were refueling, and the patient was unbelted and oxygen was discontinued until the operation was completed.

Some people just do not understand that the SOP cannot be followed everytime, and a medivac flight is one of them.

CD