I think I am going to be sick!!

[Capt Kremin]

:yuk:

Jetstar Receives International Aviation Award For Operational Excellence
Australia's low fares airline Jetstar has won Airline Business magazine's award for Operational excellence for 2007.
The announcement was made at the 6th annual Airline Strategy Awards for Airline Business magazine as part of a gala event in London on 15 July 2007.

Jetstar was selected by the judging panel as the award winner in the Operations category. Their assessment for the award concluded:
"An outstanding execution of the low-cost/low-fare airline model within the context of an existing legacy carrier, setting the company up for international long-haul expansion".

Jetstar Group General Manager - Operations Gerry Turner was present to accept the award on behalf of the fledging Australian domestic and international carrier, which in the past year maintained profitable and growing domestic operations in Australia whilst also launching what remains the world's largest value based long haul airline operation.
Previous winners of the Operations award included American Airlines in 2004, Ryanair in 2005 and Continental Airlines in 2006.

As outlined by Aviation Business the Operations award went to a wholly owned airline subsidiary in Jetstar for the first time for any of its six award categories since the event's inception in 2002. It summarised:
"The winner (Jetstar) has executed the low-cost airline model by the book under the watchful eye of parent Qantas Airways. And not only has it rapidly ramped up its domestic operations, in the past year it has taken the significant step of introducing international services with wide body jets. Where many others failed, Jetstar has succeeded as a so-called "baby" low-cost carrier owned by a legacy airline. Mimicry is the strongest form of praise as other airlines now study how Jetstar has sustained a healthy balance between its independence from and synergies with Qantas."

The Qantas Group subsidiary Jetstar has now carried in excess of 17 million passengers since start-up and has successfully executed profitable and sustainable growth in the Australian domestic market, on some short haul international services from Australia including the trans Tasman route and to Singapore and commenced its long haul services from 23 November 2006 now serving an existing 6 international destinations from Australia. This will grow to eight overseas destinations by September 2007*, subject to final regulatory approval.
Jetstar Chief Executive Officer Alan Joyce said the award was due recognition to the commitment shown by the carrier's management team and 1600 strong workforce for the continued sound execution of an attractive value based airline product across a fast expanding route network.

"Recognition by industry peers is the ultimate acknowledgement for any organisation. This award is dedicated to the impressive work ethic and innovative approach that continues to pervade across the Jetstar organisation," Mr Joyce said.
"
Jetstar is part of two future growth brands for the Qantas Group and our performance has led the way towards obtaining both additional narrow body A320s and a fleet of 15 Boeing 787 wide body aircraft to support future growth plans.

"Jetstar's international flying business will be grown aggressively, whilst complementing further expanding Qantas international operations, whilst in the Australian domestic market the introduction of nine additional A320 aircraft commencing from December 2007 will grow domestic operations by a further 40 per cent."

The Airline Business award winners were selected by an independent panel of industry experts which included Sir Rod Eddington and Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation (CAPA) Managing Director Peter Harbison. (???!!?!!!?!??:yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:?!!?!!!!!??)Furt her details are available at http://www.strategyawards2007.com/judging.html

[B A Lert]

Me three!!:yuk::yuk::E:E

[JulieFlyGal]

Congratulations JetStar!! and too all those involved! May you rock on well into the future.

Three cheers for Jetstar, hip hip, hooray!

[morning mungrel]

I wonder when the penny will drop as to who actually fixes/pays for the f#ckups that Jetstar has. I can assure you it isn't them........:hmm:

[Buster Hyman]

They also won the prestigiuos LCC "Screw the Punter" award for the second year running!:}

(The QF FA got an honourable mention...):cool:

[Capt Kremin]

I found the sponsoring organisation of this award!:E

http://www.ram.org/misc/awards/burnsaward.jpg

[Spanner Turner]

Capt K,

"eeeexxxcellent"

[lowerlobe]

Hey Buster...."They also won the prestigiuos LCC "Screw the Punter" award for the second year running!"

Don't forget the honourable Darth who has won the "screw the employee" award for the last few years and looks like a shoe in to do it again this year and the next and the next......

These in house awards really mean a lot to other people don't they!!!

It's good to see something humorous in the daily news rather than the usual death and destruction.

[Vorsicht]

"An outstanding execution of the low-cost/low-fare airline model within the context of an existing legacy carrier, setting the company up for international long-haul expansion".

Can anyone think of another airline in this category?

Not too much competition for the award i would think.

V

[Cactus Jak]

Can anyone think of another airline in this category?

Yep. Tiger. Very soon.

[Buster Hyman]

Darth who has won the "screw the employee"

That would be the prestigious "Touch your toes for Management" award right?

[max autobrakes]

And someone please tell me just how independant do you think Eddington and Harbison are?Will that be frequent flyer miles with your vote?:mad:

[lowerlobe]

"That would be the prestigious "Touch your toes for Management" award right".....

Yep I was worried when they installed a lube dispenser and disposable gloves next to the lifts.Thats why they got those lanyards so that your ID doesn't fall off when you bend over.

[The Kavorka]

I was just wondering if all the posters on here who can JQ are QF S/O's???

Just a thought!!

[Mudflat]

no, I don't think everyone here bagging Jet* is a QF SO. You can't be seriously suggesting that it's only QF pilots that see Jet* short comings.

[Transition Layer]

The Kavorka,

Yes I like to sh*tcan JQ from time to time, and yes I am proud to say I'm a QF S/O.

But I'm sure i'd be doing it regardless of where I worked!

What are you trying to get at with your suggestion anyway?

[priapism]

I'm just glad we've got some blackhawks left !

[QF DRIVE]

Mention the word Jetstar and the red mist brigade come out of the woodwork. I will be glad when Tiger starts and there will be someone else to bag.

As the commercial says "its all about choice". If you dont like it dont use it. 17mil punters in 3 years have made a choice.

Im sure Tiger will get a run on the whinge meter when people discover that they only provide 15kg luggage. an extra $25 if you want to take up to 20 kg. an extra $25 to take you golf clubs or wheelchair. $10 to pick a seat and an additional $10 if you specificly want to sit next to someone. MEL / BNE - drop you off at OOL and bus you to BNE.

181 seats on a A320. Hold your breath and suck in your gut.

Its all about choice

[call button]

Operational Excellence? I guess the award panel didn't consider these statistics for on time departures:

http://www.btre.gov.au/statistics/images/otp_dep_annual06.gif

[aircraft]

Operational Excellence? I guess the award panel didn't consider these statistics for on time departures ...
Not that kind of "operational" but the "management operational".

For any others that can't grasp what the award was for, I will tell you, in simple terms, what the award means.

It means that Jetstar has been under management that is very capable, adept and knows what it is doing.

[lowerlobe]

Aircraft...

So on time departure is not important to an airline but management quality is?

So if One stars management is so good why isn't the on time departure?

You got it wrong about J* Asia (you didn't know they existed)

You told someone else that J* would never drop it's $15 dollar application fee and THEY DID.

If the Management is so capable and adept as you put it why then is Darths little baby J* Asia haemorrhaging money like there is no tomorro.

[aircraft]

So on time departure is not important to an airline but management quality is?I did not comment on the importance or otherwise of on time departures.

You got it wrong about J* Asia (you didn't know they existed)There are probably several more Singaporean airlines that I don't know of. I cannot recall ever making any statements about Jetstar Asia. What did I get wrong?

You told someone else that J* would never drop it's $15 dollar application fee and THEY DID.Err, I never said that either.

If the Management is so capable and adept as you put it why then is Darths little baby J* Asia haemorrhaging money like there is no tomorro.I read somewhere recently that they expect to be profitable in the near future. A loss, or a period of losses (or a period of profit), does not indicate anything about the quality of the management.

['holic]

aircraft, do you remember saying this (from another thread)? ....

The sins and/or failings of Dixon exist only in your imagination.

To judge whether he is doing a good job or not, you only need to look at the share price, but why not take note of the upward revised profit forecasts as well?as against ....

A loss, or a period of losses (or a period of profit), does not indicate anything about the quality of the management.So let me get this straight :

Profits = Management Good
Losses = nothing to do with management :ugh:

How can you have one and not the other?

[lowerlobe]

Aircraft it seems as though you have a short term memory problem so let me help refresh you…

You said this…
“
“I did not comment on the importance or otherwise of on time departures” when in fact you said….

“Not that kind of "operational" but the "management operational"…

This was in response to a graph made about on time departures.SO YES you did say that ‘on time departures’ were not the issue


Your second denial....“I cannot recall ever making any statements about Jetstar Asia. What did I get wrong?”….

This was your response to me about J* asia ..

“lowerlobe,
What is Jetstar Asia? Please forgive my ignorance and fill me in. When will they start operating, what routes, what aircraft, etc.”…….



From my post...You told someone else that J* would never drop it's $15 dollar application fee and THEY DID.

Then your third denial......“Err, I never said that either”

Again your statement is incorrect because you said to Charliethewonderdog. “From the supposed conversation:
Quote:
"hmmm well it does seem to be causing a probem, would you be prepared to apply in the future if the fee was dropped "

“Rubbish. I would bet anything she did not actually say that”

Apparently they have dropped this requirement .

Aircraft you really have to remember what you have said.Your arguments are at best nonsensical and hold hold water as well as a colander does.

[aircraft]

'holic,

I should have been more specific. Profits and share price increases do not necessarily indicate good management, and losses and share price decreases do not necessarily indicate poor management. I'm sure you would know this.

It is tempting to make these associations however, particularly in the case of the profits and share price increases and it appears that I have succumbed to this temptation on this occasion!

It is probably fair to say that the board too would judge Dixon's performance favourably simply whilst these two measures are positive but should one go negative, they would need to look a lot more closely in order to make that judgement.

[aircraft]

lowerlobe,

Very funny! Have you been through all my posts looking for statements I made on Jetstar Asia? Perhaps you should take up satirical comedy as that "statement" you quoted is actually a question. So, again I ask you, what was it I said about Jetstar Asia that was wrong?

And how is this statement of mine:
Not that kind of "operational" but the "management operationala comment on the importance or otherwise of on time departures?

This is riotous! Keep it coming!

And where/when did I say that Jetstar would not be dropping the $15 fee? My only statement on this was to express disbelief as to whether the Jetstar staff member did or did not say certain words!

Congratulations on what was quite possibly the most humourous post I have ever read on PPRUNE!

[Fliegenmong]

LL...............

I remeber clearly the "JetStar Asia? What Jetstar Asia?", after that I stopped reading aircraft posts, as it was evident his knowledge was very limited. A 15 yr old young Liberal I think someone said :D

But as the Jaded Biloer & Keg I all said this morning - dont' encourage it ny answering :}:ugh:

[lowerlobe]

Fliegenmong.....Yes you are right,my fault as I am the eternal optimist but I do learn from my mistakes and from now on will ignore aircraft.

From his posts he does resemble a 15 year old from the young Liberals.Probably genuflects every morning before a pic of Bob Menzies and little Johnny.

Whatever the case,it appears his lifts don't go to the top floor if you get my drift.

['holic]

Fair enough, aircraft. So what, in your opinion, does indicate good/poor management? Serious question.
Cheers

[Baritji]

Aircraft. Can I ask if you have ever driven anything, other than your mummys Camry?

[RedTBar]

Or are you still in a booster seat?

[aircraft]

So what, in your opinion, does indicate good/poor management?
The ability to identify threats (and opportunities), to then devise appropriate strategies to deal with them, and then to implement and follow through with those strategies.

Although a bit on the strict side, this would be my definition of good management. Of course, this definition would also apply to a wild animal that successfully competes with other animals in order to survive!

The humans that comprise the management will occasionally make mistakes. Nobody is perfect - pilots make mistakes too. The successful animal will make the odd mistake too, but whilst it remains alive to fight another day it can be said to be displaying "good management".

The Ansett collapse? By my definition, poor management. But perhaps that is obvious - is my definition too strict?

By my definition, the management of Qantas and Jetstar is nothing short of outstanding. They have made little mistakes along the way but those are to be expected. The main thing is that they have identified the threats and opportunities and made appropriate responses.

To continue the wild animal analogy, Qantas and Jetstar are not just surviving but growing and becoming more dominant.

There are some posters that like to trot out a list of mistakes that Qantas has made. This list is the supposed evidence of poor management and is almost always the same and contains about 5 items (one of the items on the list is something about an A330-200 - I can't remember the others right now).

To those posters that like to quote these mistakes as the evidence that Qantas management is poor I say: is that the best you can do? I would say that a list of 5 or so little mistakes is more like resounding evidence of good management.

[lowerlobe]

"What airline Jetstar Asia?".....Is there an airline called jetstar Asia?.....Where is it based?......Who owns Jetstar asia?.....How many planes do they have?....

['holic]

aircraft,
Yeah well, that's all a bit vague. I've yet to see anything of substance backing up your arguments.

There are some posters that like to trot out a list of mistakes that Qantas has made. This list is the supposed evidence of poor management and is almost always the same and contains about 5 itemsHow about trotting out a list of things they've done right?

Do a search on this forum. If you read past the emotion, there are plenty of very solid examples of bad management (a LOT more than 5). Worse than that, their handling of the APA takeover has the potential of seeing criminal legal proceedings against them, if the government or a group of shareholders decide to push the point. Is that good management?

Believe it or not, we as Qantas employees have a greater vested interest in seeing Qantas survive than the board does. We were here when they arrived, we'll be here when they've gone.

Considering we are the ones who are seeing and living Qantas' "outstanding" management, maybe you should pay a little more attention to what we have to say.

[Capt Kremin]

How is this for good management aircraft? Remembering that the principle responsibility of management is to make a good return for the shareholders.

*Identifying several areas of a business which are undervalued.

*Decide to invite a private equity bid which will install you as a partner and gift you one percent of the total value of the company.

*Don't tell anyone about it.

*Publicly run the company's prospects down to ensure the share price remains low.

*Tell the staff the same thing, whilst running active campaigns to casualise the workforce and destroying morale.

*When the bid arrives, make mealy mouthed utterances about how you are going to give away your 60 million bonus, whilst saying nothing about the 170 million that you will recieve when the company is refloated, plus your salary and bonus. (conservatively 250 million in total).

*Whe the bid falls through, have the utter gall to pretend nothing has happened, that you weren't actually trying to fleece the shareholders of what rightfully should have been theirs, and then try to bare-face it to the staff as well.

Does that sound like a good way to manage a company? Does that sound like sound management, ethical behaviour? Or is it the criminal behaviour we all suspect?

You sir, are an.....:mad:

BTW

FOG

[Capt Kremin]

Check out Westaway's comment right at the bottom.... :yuk:

http://www.dailymercury.com.au:80/localnews/storydisplay.cfm?storyid=3752024&thesection=localnews&thesubsection=&thesecondsubsection=

[neville_nobody]

So if Jetstar's standards are up there with Qantas Group, how come the Qantas Regionals and Mainline do more simulators than Jetstar?


Qantas Group only if it suits them.........:mad:

[Keith Myath]

Hello Nev,

Jetstar Line Pilots do 4 sim sessions per year, 16 sim hrs per year, 4 days in the sim per year, any other way you cut it it's the same amount of sim check and training (mainly checking) as Qantas Link (eastern) or Qantas Mainline are required to do. Talk to some of the other people outside the Qantas Group and you may also find some similarities between sim programs. Just because it is different to the way Qantas does it, doesnt mean that it is worse.

Question to Nev,

Sunstate Pilots do 3 sim sessions per year, does this make them lesser pilots because they do one less sim session than Eastern, or better because they meet the standard in one less session?

[Condition lever]

Lowerlobe - can you tell me if Virgin log their on-time departures based on the same criteria as every one else (namely J*)?
Once you have worked that out perhaps you might admit how myopic your comments on this topic are.

[hotnhigh]

Passengers applaud as pilots beat storm

16.10.2007


AS a violent electrical storm buffeted their Jetstar flight over Mackay on Friday night, Kim Ainslie grasped her daughter's hand and tried to assure the tearful 19-year-old everything would be okay.

In truth, she was just as scared as her daughter  despite having flown hundreds of times in all manner of aircraft as a former member of the Royal Australian Air Force.

Kim, 46, and Tiarna Ainslie, both of Andergrove, were among 149 passengers aboard flight JQ890 from Brisbane to Mackay which moments earlier was forced to abort, at the last moment, a landing attempt at Mackay airport after lightning struck the runway.





Passengers were then forced to endure a terrifying 25 minutes of uncertainty as the pilots repositioned the 177-seat Airbus A320 for a second landing attempt.
The plane finally landed around 7.30pm.

"It's the scariest ride I've ever had  and I've had more than 300 flights all over the world," said Kim, a real estate agent with Ray White.

"When it took off again I did fear for my life.

"We were very, very scared  and I'm sure 80% of the passengers on board were the same."

Kim said the passengers erupted into a round of applause when the plane landed safely.

"I believe there were definitely moments of danger," she said. "Thank you so much to the pilots."

Tiarna said the quick-thinking pilots could have saved their lives.

"When we were walking out I told the crew to tell the pilots they did an excellent job," she said.

Jetstar spokesperson Simon Westaway confirmed the plane missed an approach because of poor weather.

"We're a Qantas group airline and we adhere to the most stringent safety standards," he said.

[AlJassmi]

Oh my God, a go around! Hold for 25min while the storm passes, then land. Why is this news??

[bored]

who the hell is JulieFlyGal?? bless her naive 18yo cotton socks!

[Captain Sherm]

Hmmmm....and the reasons for that award might include:

a) pleasant place to work

b) plenty of new shiny jets to fly

c) choice of many bases

d) wide-body opportunities after a short time on the 320 (A330 and 787 to come)

e) reasonable earnings/lifetsyle package

Gee....what else could there be? Would it really be more fun to sit in the back seat of a 744 and moan?

[OhSpareMe]

Would it really be more fun to sit in the back seat of a 744 and moan?

Yeah it was. I sat in the so-called 'back seat' of the 744 for a few years and thought it was one of the best jobs that I had ever, ahem, landed. You would never have heard me moan about it. However, it (the back seat role)did end eventually.

(and I took home 160K not including super for the privilege):ok:

[The Kavorka]

Ohspareme,

I think your need to look at your figures...ther is no way you "took home" 160k....you would have needed to earn around 280k for this...:uhoh:

unless you are the highest paid s/o in history!!!!!!!

also you must have been pretty senior to make this kind of coin!!

[OhSpareMe]

OK you got me. It was a 'gross' figure. (Well I sort of took it home, except I was waylaid by the ATO to hand over some of it).

However,in the interest of accuracy I checked it, and it was only $159,300.87 in my last full year as an SO. Certainly not moaning about that one!:ok:

[QFinsider]

It was a great way to learn all about heavy jets. S/O's are involved in all aspects of the operation. They have saved many a potential embarassing situation. Have certainly been thankful they are there on many occassions. Coming from a GA background and finally getting in and earning a good income was a dream come true. Unfortunately there exist those who denigrate the position, those people usually haven't done the job.

Given the projections for the industry at large and indeed the company in particular, it would seem that there are many opportunities for those who meet the standard. Each to their own, but for me I think it is better to be rewarded financially than spend time denigrating and undercutting each other.

[OhSpareMe]

And what do Second Officers actually do?

The same as you mate - crew an aircraft. And I sincerely hope you do find out one day.

SO's are an integral part of the operation. The aircraft doesn't (read can't) go without them on long haul routes. Not unless the operator wants to employ 2 x Capt and 2 x FO (or 1 x Capt and 3 x FO). The fact that they don't handle the aircraft below 10,000 feet does not make them some sort of a lesser being. I am with QF Insider on this one - those who denigrate usually have not done the job.

It was a great job. I came out of GA and was extremely grateful for the opportunity. A couple of years as a SO will not hurt you. I saw it(and continue to see it) as a valuable period in which to see how it is done, and as equally important on some occasions - to see how not to do it! And it allowed me to partake of one of my favourite pastimes - cruising around the world whilst being paid for it!:ok:

If one wants to shun the SO job in favour of the much vaunted 'window seat' with another outfit then that is their prerogative. But I think they are arguing from a position of ignorance.

[Capt Kremin]

OSM is correct. S/O's allow QF to crew it's longhaul flights cheaper than it's competitors. BA or United uses 2 captains and 2 FO's for its ULH flights, QF gets away with 1 Capt, 1 FO and 2 SO's.

Many people forget this. As well as the fact that by definition, SO's get overtime on just about every sector they do. Hence the good pay.

[Jet_A_Knight]

Something you guys cannot accept is that it does not suit everybody to go in an international airline as SO or whatever and spend extended periods away from a home life that needs attention etc etc.

Stop buying tickets on yourselves - it might be difficult, but try to excercise just a little imagination and understand that not everyone wants what you have.......or even think there's anything special in whatever it is that you do.:hmm:

[Poto]

Something you guys cannot accept is that it does not suit everybody to go in an international airline as SO or whatever and spend extended periods away from a home life that needs attention etc etc.

Stop buying tickets on yourselves - it might be difficult, but try to excercise just a little imagination and understand that not everyone wants what you have.......or even think there's anything special in whatever it is that you do.

Jet dude- Not one of the posts referring to the S/O role were in any way giving that job a "I am better than you" spin.

In fact are, between Karvorka and The Sherm- who both have rather abrasive posting styles- if we all didn't know better, one would believe that J* was the best job in the world on the most sophisticated contract ever written.

Now on a 'contract' to 'contract' basis between all the Australian airlines operating jet rpt, the J* one sits at the bottom. End of story. If personal life choices are the reason you prefer to work under the J* contract then that IS your prerogative. However Having many mates at all the majors, I am yet to meet one who will say the J* star deal is the better deal.

:ok:

[blow.n.gasket]

Keith you wrote:

Line Pilots do 4 sim sessions per year, 16 sim hrs per year, 4 days in the sim per year, any other way you cut it it's the same amount of sim check and training (mainly checking) as Qantas Link (eastern) or Qantas Mainline are required to do. Talk to some of the other people outside the Qantas Group and you may also find some similarities between sim programs. Just because it is different to the way Qantas does it, doesnt mean that it is worse.

How are these Sim sessions structured?
Is it a 2 day session every 6 months?
Is the first day a practice session with the second day assessed?
No problem really as this is how many airlines run their licence renewals.
Care to comment on the amount of initial training given to new starts especially when one considers the rapidity of promotion and the general reductions in pilot experience levels that all airlines in Australia are now having to deal with.

[UAL Furlough]

United uses 2 captains and 2 FO's

Not true, United uses one Captain and 3 F/O's and not too many years back they used one Capt., 1 F/O and 2 IRP's (international relief pilots/SO's)