View Full Version : Incarcerated 'tête de rotor' breaks out again
Ian Corrigible
15th Jul 2007, 02:22
Payet's third escape using helicopters, it says here (http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/news/france/20070714-France-prison-Pascal-Payet-convict-escapes-prison.html). He might want to consider taking a quarter-share in an R44. :E
Convict stages second helicopter escape
France24 (http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/news/france/20070714-France-prison-Pascal-Payet-convict-escapes-prison.html) July 14, 2007
A convicted killer who has already staged one helicopter-assisted prison break, again escaped from a French prison Saturday using a helicopter.
Pascal Payet, 43, broke out of Grasse prison, southeast France, after a helicopter hijacked by four masked men landed on the roof of one the prison buildings, said a source close to the investigation.
The helicopter landed some time later at Brignoles, 38 kilometres (24 miles) northeast of Toulon, on the Mediterranean coast. Payet and his accomplices released the pilot unharmed and fled the scene.
The helicopter had been hijacked earlier in the evening at the Cannes-Mandelieu airport.
In October 2001, Payet used a helicopter to escape from the Luynes prison in southeast France.
Payet, from the southern French city Marseille, had been serving a 30-year sentence for a murder committed during a robbery on a security van.
Two years later, while still on the run, he organised the escape of three other inmates of Luynes prison -- again using a helicopter.
Last year, he received a seven-year jail sentence for having organised the 2003 jail break.
I/C
arismount
15th Jul 2007, 10:02
Just think of all the gas money and blade hours that would have been saved if only France still had capital punishment.
SilsoeSid
15th Jul 2007, 12:15
Well, all I can say is it's a good job the helicopter was used for a relatively harmless event in a jailbreak, as opposed to being hijacked by terrorists and flown into a large crowd of people, given the location, a beach on a sunny Saturday afternoon for example!!
I wonder if any action was taken to intercept! :confused:
OK, so maybe no-one knew about the hijack from leaving the airport to the prison, but after that?
Apart from the heli being hijacked from an airport, that flight must have taken at least 30 minutes, and on the way passed Cannes with all it's western extravagances, twice, and would have been heading straight for Marseille.
Monaco is only 10 minutes flying time away and Nice a tad closer.:eek:
Still, I suppose this sort of thing, jailbreaks by heli, is harmless really and nothing too bad will happen in France anyway on the terrorist front!.......will it!:hmm:
MSP Aviation
15th Jul 2007, 16:28
The Fronsch ought to string up some telephone wires above the prisons to keep the helis out, ala Pablo Escobar in his "prison."
scooter boy
15th Jul 2007, 16:55
I'm guessing it wasn't an R22!
4 masked bandits plus pilot plus sprung gangster - sacre bleu!
SB
This is a bit more accurate - http://www.cannes.maville.com/Prison-de-Grasse-un-detenu-se-fait-la-belle-a-bord-d-un-helicoptere/re/actudet/actu_dep-425913-----_actu.html
SilsoeSid
15th Jul 2007, 22:18
OK, just to throw the discussion open a bit more, ( yes I know we are at a safe computer desk with a cup of tea, biscuits etc etc :rolleyes: )
7500 or fake a problem, what would be the best get out?
I would suspect the hijackers may be inquisitive about squawk/radio changes, but maybe a tail twitch, or power reduction thrown in might give the impression a helicopter isn't a good idea. Maybe start flying out to sea?
How do you know they aren't going to do something once you've dropped them off anyway?
Do as your told, why be a hero? Nothing to be gained at the end of the day!
Dont ever fight with a pig, you both get covered in it and the pig likes it!
also,
Never bring a knife to a gunfight.
This was all over in about 20 minutes, so you squawk 7500, and then what? It would not be too difficult on that track to be out of coverage anyway.
Fly out to sea? And then you are "out at sea" so to speak.
Get these people nicked on your account and pi$$ them off and you would be looking over your shoulder for a long time. This isn't television.
SilsoeSid
16th Jul 2007, 00:51
Do as your told, why be a hero? Nothing to be gained at the end of the day!
So lets say the hijackers want you to fly into Canary Wharf!
This was all over in about 20 minutes, so you squawk 7500, and then what?
Who's to say your hijacking won't last longer. An Apache pulling alongside you, would put a few extra thoughts in the minds of the hijackers.
Get these people nicked on your account and pi$$ them off and you would be looking over your shoulder for a long time.
How are they to know it wasn't a genuine emergency? Unless you go spouting off to the press etc how you thwarted the hijackers plans!
Polemicist is a derogatory term for someone in Italy!
We could "what if" here forever, but in response to your question.
Canary wharf - hardly an ideal target or device (helicopter) for the job.
Where are you going to find an Apache available for the job at such short notice - realistically in the UK - the next day? Turn off the TXPDR (which crims know about ) and operate LL and primary radar is going to find them - yeah right.
As an aside to the above - harking back to 911 unfortunately - never could work out how someone who supposedly had done a few circuits in a Cessna 150 could operate an FMS or contend with the energy management required to get the aircraft to where they needed to be.
This was Bastille day in France pretty good chance everybody had the day off or was down on the Croisette in Cannes waiting for the fireworks or imbibing in the 4th pastis or so.
At the time coincidentally, I was standing where I could see both LFMD and this particular lockup. LFMD TWR will warn you about the location of this jail if you fly up that way and to remain well clear. This has been done before and the guards will normally open up without warning.
These are hardened crims - cunning as a $hithouse rat.
If cornered these people will take the next step - you (the pilot) are now currency in the whole deal as a hostage.
The guy that was extracted was doing time for murder. If he gets another 30 years on top of the 30 years he is doing whats the difference? He doesn't have anything to lose and all to gain.
I repeat - this isn't television!
SilsoeSid
16th Jul 2007, 09:03
So RVDT, what part of my "OK, just to throw the discussion open a bit more, ( yes I know we are at a safe computer desk with a cup of tea, biscuits etc etc :rolleyes: " was the most difficult?
In regard to your Apache comment, I'm sure you are aware of the QRA aircraft http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,,2124266,00.html for just an event, yet clearly not aware of the Apache on standby 'somewhere' within the congested zone, ie actually in situ where the hijacked aircraft would likely be flying towards. An Apache is as capable in achieving the aim as a Tornado! :ok:
LFMD TWR will warn you about the location of this jail if you fly up that way and to remain well clear. This has been done before and the guards will normally open up without warning.
So what happened this time? Was everyone in on it? :suspect:
If cornered these people will take the next step - you (the pilot) are now currency in the whole deal as a hostage.
Hence my fly out to sea action, ditch the aircraft because of the emergency!
How are they going to take you hostage from that?
As for your repetetive "this isn't television!" comment, unfortunately thats where terrorists get their ideas from, so our actions could reasonably come from the same source. Script writers spend months getting the right outcome for the plot.
Watch tv and learn RVDT, may I suggest MacGyver ;) :cool:
http://img.youtube.com/vi/brjuhXQXFJA/2.jpg
34 and 61 sec points
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=brjuhXQXFJA
Then of course there are the thriller books, like Floodgate by Alistair MacLean. But according to you that sort of thing is only a story in a book, so no worries... right!!
http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/images/n4/n23876.jpg
Amsterdam Airport - the best in Europe - had disappeared. The wall of water was the work of FFF - an Irish terrorist group who want to force Britain's hand.
Your Sidness - sounds like you may have OD'ed on the tea and bikkies!
In regard to your Apache comment, I'm sure you are aware of the QRA aircraft http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/...124266,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,,2124266,00.html) for just an event, yet clearly not aware of the Apache on standby 'somewhere' within the congested zone, ie actually in situ where the hijacked aircraft would likely be flying towards. An Apache is as capable in achieving the aim as a Tornado!The tea and bikkies must be giving you the same hallucinations that George and Tony have regarding a military response to urban terrorism. Thats the upside of terrorism - it works! To see what doesn't work - watch the news on telly.
So what happened this time? Was everyone in on it?Read: "This was Bastille day in France pretty good chance everybody had the day off or was down on the Croisette in Cannes waiting for the fireworks or imbibing in the 4th pastis or so."
Hence my fly out to sea action, ditch the aircraft because of the emergency!
How are they going to take you hostage from that?Won't need to after they hold your head underwater for 10 mins if you have survived the ditching!
I take note of your taste's in the media - I'm sure the perps in this case probably share them.
SilsoeSid
16th Jul 2007, 11:29
Won't need to after they hold your head underwater for 10 mins if you have survived the ditching!
On that assumption RVDT, once you have delivered the package to its destination, they will do you in anyway.
At least if you ditch, chances are you will know what is going on and know how to operate the door jettison. You should get out ok!
Once in the water and the hijackers survive, perhaps they will realise that they need to try and survive. A few miles out to see I would have thought survival would rather kick in as opposed to trying to kill the person who in their mind has just saved them from a helicopter crash!
Don't forget, If they try and hold your head underwater for 10 minutes, they are also in the water. They do not have the same stability as when that sort of thing is done in films with baths or washbasins. The person doing the holding has to have a stable base or they go down aswell!
This isn't the movies you know. ;) :rolleyes: :p
Helinut
16th Jul 2007, 12:17
Sid,
I would be very wary of believing what you read in the newspapers - especially when you know something about it yourself "Intercept in 6 minutes over London from Lincolnshire" - I don't think so..............
The transit time MIGHT be 6 minutes but all the other bits need adding in too.
As pilots, I wouldn't speculate too much about this on here - some potential uninvited future pax might be listening.
I think as ( in this case ) there were 5 of them and one driver the time to reach the consensus would have been about a week prior!
5:1 or at best (worst?) 2:1 is still going to hold your head under water.
We are not talking about a bunch of tooth fairies from the bottom of the garden here.
This is the second such occurrence in Grasse and there was one in Sydney a while ago. In all cases the pilot and aircraft were left unscathed. They are not interested in wasting time dealing with things like the pilot or aircraft and are more interested in keeping the upper hand by constantly changing the game.
They know about your Apache, but they also know it takes time for it to mobilise and find them. Simple - remove that opportunity.
On the day there were two Alpha Jets on the tarmac at Nice (with all the plugs in) and these guys if they were on track flew within 5 miles of Le Luc / Le Cannet where more than one EC665 Tigre, amongst others, is known to reside.
With respect to your Eurofighter scenario - even if you did know which way they went could the radar pick out a helicopter at 100' doing 80 mph over the M1? Considering the traffic is moving of course!
SilsoeSid
16th Jul 2007, 15:37
I think a helicopter has a better doppler signature than a mondeo on the M1, if thats the system you'll be using to hide yourself in the transit RVDT.
Think of the blades! :ugh: