any hope

[bobfly386]

:cool:doing my atpl grounds age 46.Just woundering is there anybody else as young as me out there doing same.
Hope to go instructing or some kind of flying job.
Just love flyinghttp://www.pprune.org/forums/images/infopop/icons/icon14.gif

[boogie-nicey]

Sure you'll get something but what, where and when..... Flight Instructing is becoming increasingly attractive with the current 'drought' of people leap frogging this step onto the airlines. Even flying Turbo-props are a possibility if you can bag yourself some multi time or better still some line expereince.

At the end of the day it always comes down to the individual's circumstances.

[Happy Wanderer]

Bob,

I'm not in a dissimilar position to yourself - age 44, young-at heart, career-changer, PPL passed last October, just waiting for my final Mod 2 ATPL exam results (with Bristol GS), off to California a week on Monday for a month's hour-building and starting my CPL in early Sept. I have every intention of achieving a FO position, be it regional turbo-prop, charter/corporate market or LCC.

It does very much depend on individual circumstances as B-N rightly says. I'm going at this full-time, fortunately have the £££ to fund training (up to SSTR), my family's support and no major distractions (ie kids!) to get in the way. I did a lot of thinking before I embarked on this road and had circumstances been different, I'm not sure I'd have done it given my age. If you go for it, commit to drawing up a written 1-page training plan outlining all the steps req'd, measurables and time frames and try to stick to it.

The job market at the moment is very buoyant. There's an article in this weeks Flight International which makes interesting reading for anyone considering a career as a pilot, particularly via the FI route. Worth getting holding of a copy or accessing the 'flightglobal' www (if you can find the piece). The folllowing is an extract:

....the European instructor shortage may be worse than that being being experienced in the USA. UK carriers in particular are taking guys straight out of training with as little as 250hrs flying because the demand is so great. Then 'they're all being sucked upwards' as airlines at the bottom of the industry lose pilots to bigger carriers.

Newly licensed pilots with barely 200hrs instruction - 150hrs in the air and the rest on simulators - are getting jobs as FOs on Airbus and Boeing narrowbodies (says Earp). Moreover, airlines are hiring pilots at age 40 and 45, which never used to be the case. The result is 'people aren't looking at instruction as a career any more'.

Clearly the older you get, the more deep thinking you need to do re the '+s' and '-s' of going down this route. It can absorb a hell of a lot of money and age prejudice unfortuantely seems to exist among the larger carriers. If your head and heart seem to be saying the same thing, then maybe it's worth a shot. But do your reasearch, plan it down to the nth degree and network like mad.

I wish you the best of luck.

HW

[boogie-nicey]

Happy Wander, that seems like a good plan and with the SSTR will no doubt help in the search for that all ellusive first job. However it's important not to loose sight of the fact that aviation is global and you can search for opportunities outside of the UK, who knows you might like it 'over there' ;). The LCCs are the ones who seem to be subject to alot of abuse and blame with regards to the modern day ills of the industry. However by inducing a degree of dynamicism they're also the ones who've given some of the mature wannabes a 'chance' and sometimes in life that's all that's required. Don't think you're alone I know of quite a few people in their 30s/40s who are "going for it" so you're not exclsuive in that sense. However it's not their age that raises eye brows but the distinction of those with a plan and those who are just drifting through and hoping to catch anything that might come their way. Realistically you should have plan and whilst aiming for it if something should come your way fine take it but don't aim for luck, that's just not effective. After all those who state that they're happy doing some glider towing for the rest of their lives, career or just for fun are delluding themselves and sound more like children who promise "this is the very last time they'll ask for it", yeah right.

I made a plan like everyone else before initiating training but I was also conscious of the fact that I shouldn't get drawn into the specifics. The reasons for this are quite simple the market changes and the goal posts shift so you might be aiming for something that no longer exists at the end of your training or is no longer viable. (A bit like doing DIY put the structure together by slotting everything into place and then insert the screws, once it's all put together you can then tighten the screws at the end of the job ;)) - sorry couldn't think of a better example. :p

BEST of luck !

[Happy Wanderer]

BN, you're quite right of course - all plans (particularly career ones) need an element of flexibility built into them. I just think that a pretty fixed time-based plan is req'd whilst training - particularly so when studying for the ATPL exams - otherwise things can and do drift as you say.

Approaching the plan in 'work mode' also tends to keep you focused and timescales short; I would imagine that potential employers would tend to look more favourably at someone who has completed their training in as short a timescale as possible, rather than a stop-start approach. I guess this risks getting into the integrated v mod debate, so I'll stop there!

I will keep options open re overseas jobs as you suggest - Mrs HW seems quite keen on anything that would help escape the UK weather ;)

HW

[bluepeely]

Gentlemen if thats your dream ,live it. Better to try n fail n all that.

[wbryce]

I would reckon you would have a good chance with turbo prop operators on the basis that your not going to run away at the first glimpse of a shiney jet job.

[Happy Wanderer]

Oh, I don't know......;)

HW

[pilotmike]

Happy W and Bobfly386

I wholly agree with boogie-nicey's excellent advice.

I posted on a similar thread called "Dear Deidre - What should I do?" last week, with an example of what is possible. I will copy my previous post, for information, with the integrated v modular specific content cut:

I know of an airline pilot who decided at the
age of 42 to change career, and he started studying - hard!

Having bought the Bristol GS ATPL distance study course in mid October, he sat the first module of exams in December, than passed the second module in February. All 14 exams in under 4 months. By May, just 6 months after starting, he had CPL with night rating and Multi rating, and by July he had IR as well. By early July he had MCC with 20 hours on B737-200 sim.

It took him just over 8 months from buying the groundschool course to being employable as an airline pilot. Now where can an integrated course achieve that? Yes, he worked very hard, but the point is that he set his own pace, and achieved a life-changing career move in less than 1 year - and for very little over £20,000.

Now at the ripe age of 43, just 18 months after deciding to invest the initial £2,000 or so with Bristol GS, he has a cracking jet job as FO with an excellent airline, with very good career prospects.

OK, so he had a head start by having already completed a PPL with the required hours, but these can be gained in 3 or 4 months if you have aptitude and commitment. So it is possible to be a qualified airline pilot, ready to be employed, in just 1 year from starting out.

Believe in yourself, set goals, and check out all the options. With hard work and commitment, it is possible to become an airline pilot in just 12 months, for an outlay of under £30,000.

This simply goes to illustrate what is possible - so keep aiming high, whilst keeping realistic at the same time.

Many will tell you that age is a significant factor in getting that first job, and rightly so. But never overlook that one person's 'has been' is another person's 'solid employee with 15 good productive years to come.'

Older newbie FOs can be attractive to airlines who wish to keep their pilots after investing in their training. I think the problem is with certain airlines who expect the pilot to pay for everything, including their training, rendering them little more than disposable resources. These airlines have a very high turnover of young pilots who pay to get started, get disillusioned, then leave for greener grass elsewhere. But there are many other airlines who specifically recruit older FOs, with the specific intention of keeping them for some years to come.

Very best wishes in your quest for your goals. It can be done.

PM

[captain_rossco]

daaaaaaaaaaaaamn this is a fine thread, at last some cracking contributions from those in the know!
I knew the Prune wasn't all about having to answer questions for 17 year olds!

Regards
CR

[bobfly386]

thanks guys
what a great bunch you all are
where there's a will there's a way.onward and upwards:D

[FlyerPhilec]

If you are going into it with your eyes wide open then "Go for it"

I am 37 next month and am off down the modular route in December.

I do have the distraction of a 7 year old daughter but even she is behind me on this one.

Finances might be a problem as I will probably need to keep enough set aside for a TR at the end of it all.

Someone a lot cleverer than me once wrote:-

"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all"

Just be careful and have a back up employment plan (if not FI) while you are waiting for that elusive first job.

Phil

[Happy Wanderer]

Hi Adi,

Many thanks - kind words.

My back up plan? I suppose at the moment it just extends to 'I could go back to doing what I did before', but I don't really want (or plan) to ;)

HW