Training routes and costs in the USA

[tingtang]

Hi All

I’m seriously considering going out to the States to get my FAA CPL/IR (both with ME and SE ratings) and I already have my JAA PPL. However, I’m trying to cost it and it’s pretty hard. Some schools state fixed fees for courses on their websites (eg. Naples, Fly Aviator), whilst others just have hourly costs only (eg European-American Aviation).

I suppose for the part 141 flight training it is relatively easy to give a cost since individuals basically start with zero hours and if they pass the training in minimal time, they pay the fixed cost on the website. However I have almost 100hours of flying so there is no point in the part 141 so I will have to go along the part 61 route.

Has anyone who has had experience with this able to shed any light and provide any advice (except for the obvious like don’t pay all your money up front!)? Are training costs across schools in general comparable?

Are schools willing and able to give estimated quotes and provide rough ideas of training timetables?

Any help and insights appreciated.

Will

[Rob's Dad]

Will

I would recommend the following basic Part 61 criteria when trying to cost the licences: 20 hours for CPL, and 37 for IR of which 20 can be sim. I think the ME course is min 10 hours then you do 1 x assymetric ILS and you have a MEIR. From personal experience I'd add at least 30% to those figures, and consider doing CPL on ME to get you used to it prior to MEIR test. But then I would also advocate doing everything in the UK as I found cost and time wise the US was not all it was cracked up to be - although I did get lots of hours in the logbook - and you shouldn't underestimate the challenge of flying a different class of aircraft in a different country to a higher standard than you have flown before.

Best of luck.

RD

[NH2390]

Beware of any school which gives 'fixed' fees. Their charges for going over minimum hours can be higher, and I know Ari-Ben Aviator in particular has a number of extra charges, for things like books and fuel(!) which most other schools include.

[tingtang]

Thanks for the info above guys. For information, below is what I’ve had as one offer for a training programme in the US as a progression onwards from my JAA PPL:

- FAA IR (SE)
- FAA CPL/IR (ME)
- FAA CPL (SE) (add-on)

Doing everything ME enables me to convert to a JAA CPL/IR (ME) more easily when I return to the UK.

Any thoughts on the above programme?

Will

[Rob's Dad]

Not sure I follow that Will. Why would you do a ME CPL then a SE add on? Most people I know did SE IR, SE CPL, ME conversion finishing in a assymetric ILS which gives you (in FAA land) a ME CPL/IR. I did both CPL and IR on ME for similar reasons to the ones you suggest.

I agree doing ME CPL makes conversion in UK easy, but as for IR, sadly not from my experience. You would think holding a FAA CPL/IR and being able to fly a 'N' Reg aircraft anywhere in the world would make the JAA IR conversion a doddle, but most will tell you the FAA and JAA IR are very different (mainly due to use of NDBs, en route segments, and strict comms in latter and that you can fly the same test route over and over in the US). Seems to me that the FAA see the IR as a safety issue and encourage every PPL holder to complete the IR, whereas the IR in the UK is seen as a professional qualification and is deliberately tough in the theory that if you can fly a ME aircraft in IFR single pilot then you can definitely fly in a multi-crew, fully automated, environment. This makes the courses very different beasts.

No one I know who has trained in the US has completed the IR conversion in the minimum of 15 hours: if you expect 25 hours conversion plus the 45ish in the US for the IR then the 50 hour (post CPL) IR course in the UK becomes more attractive.

[tingtang]

The programme I described was given to me from European-American Aviation.

Their only complex a/c is the DA42 twin star and since the initial CPL needs to be in a complex aircraft, I would have to start with the ME CPL and then do the SE add-on if I was to train with them. They did say that it can be done the other way around, as you suggest.

However, so far I really like what I have seen about their school and they seem to have very high quality a/c and have been helpful in providing advice. Anyway, completing as much time as possible in ME a/c can't be all that bad (apart from the cost!)??

I understand the difficulty in completing the JAA IR conversion. However, I currently only have approx 100hrs flying and need 250hrs for the FAA CPL so completing the FAA IR before the CPL will give me a huge boost in hours whilst doing something constructive. Good argument?

Cheers

Will

[Rob's Dad]

Seems a plan Will - exactly the arguments I used to justify my selection of FAA training. What I meant though was once you have a ME CPL why would you want to convert it to SE unless of course you want to get a job (assuming you can get a green card) flying SE aircraft on FAA licence. If you don't want to do that, the SE conversion is just extra cost when you can convert your ME FAA CPL to SE JAA CPL should you wish to do so. Although from what you say I suspect you would end up having so many ME hours that it would only take 5 or so to convert your CPL so may as well do a JAA ME CPL (which, I think, unlike the FAA version gives SE rights in Europe?). Good luck with whatever you choose.

[B257]

Say if i go down to florida and do one of the advertised jaa courses is there much to converting said licence to a jaa atpl ?
Is it worth the hassle or should you pat out massive money in jerez or the likes ?
Also what about S.A as an option does anyone have any ideas ?
Thanks in advance !!