Virgin Interviewing round 2

[VH-ABC]

Just got the second round of mass (i expect) emails from VB with interviewing conducted in August sometime. Recieved the mass email a month or so ago, and couldnt make any of the times available. Did they not fill their quota last time?

[piston broke again]

Where's mine?

[otta here]

Anyone know whats invoved with the new interview process???
Thanking you (:
now

[mention1]

Yes I got one too. Not sure what the interview process is now-a-days!

[aero979]

did anyone get an email who had just multi piston time? or do you need multi turbine time just to get a look in? or multi crew? what are they looking for?

[Going Boeing]

To improve our conditions is is essential that all applicants refuse to pay for their endorsement - either money upfront or by salary sacrifice after employment. Providing an endorsement is an airline responsibility. More than ever, this is the time for everybody to stand together as you now have many options if you refuse to pay.

[Going Boeing]

JM

I was fortunate enough to establish my airline career prior to "pay for your endosement" was ever thought of. It doesn't affect me and I could simply ignore it, but, as those who know me can confirm, I have a genuine interest in bettering a profession that I am proud of. It's the new generation of pilots that will have to wear the consequences, so I'm simply urging that everyone take a long term view of their careers and use the current abundance of employment opportunities to send a strong message to JQ, DJ and QantasLink that the "pay for endorsement" concept is not acceptable.

[jack red]

To improve our conditions is is essential that all applicants refuse to pay for their endorsement - either money upfront or by salary sacrifice after employment. Providing an endorsement is an airline responsibility. More than ever, this is the time for everybody to stand together as you now have many options if you refuse to pay. ..........................and if you don't tick the "I'll pay for endorsement" and "I'll go to any VB base in Oz" boxes....................you will not be invited for an interview. :=

That's the state of play for the time being. Not saying the supply & demand scenario won't change things in the future but..... are you feeling lucky guys......well are you? :ok:

[Capt.G.G.2Shoes]

Anyone here find out yet if they got in from interviews this month??

[goddamit]

christ...nice thought to get everyone not paying for an endorsement, I agree, but in the real world no one looking for their first jet from GA is going to do that. Unfortunately that is the times we live in, & only the mindset of the management can change it. While you're at it you should ask all applicants to say no to the job unless they'll get at salary of 240k as well. Its just as far fetched as the endorsement cost subject. Hopefully it will change in time. But if one guy refuses, sure as s@it the next guy will take his place, & in 5 yrs timee the poor bastards who refused may still be flying their barons. cold comfort...

[knackeredII]

only the mindset of the management can change it

And what's going to change management's mindset? They are not going to do it themselves. If you continue to accept the status quo, then the status quo is what you will continue to get! It's your mindset that needs to change before management's will.

[galdian]

knackered
Note your location is Asia, please correct if required but suspect you are either out of '89 or An demise, if so you came through a system that essentially no longer exists and from which you benefited and good luck to you.

goddamit has it correct, he is dealing with his career in his time in the prevailing real world.

Ain't right, happy to join in and "point fingers" at those who have initiated or championed "pay your own endorsement" schemes (previous posts have shown my amazement at a certain ex CP, once staunch unionist now proven staunch Capitalist.)

I apologise if you are indeed a recent arrival in Asia and did not benefit from the "traditional" airline environment in Australia.

Enjoy the game! :ok:

[Gnadenburg]

Maybe it's better for established pilots to have newbe's pay for their endorsements.The profession becomes less attractive and market forces come into play.

[galdian]

Gnads

Geez haven't seen your moniker for yonks - been on sabbatical or something??

Nice lateral thinking (or gentle stirring of the pot, whatever your preference) - as usual! :D

[Whiskery]

There is truth in what you say Gnadenberg. I don't believe it should be the "norm" for pilots to pay for ratings and I am sure this will change as demand overtakes supply.

[Lodown]

The airlines have a bag of bones. More than enough bones to go around all the dogs, and they throw out just one or two to start. The young pups tear each other to bits to get a taste. Meanwhile, the smart dogs, know if they just keep their desires in check for a little while longer and stand back from the melee, there’ll be much juicier bones coming for everyone and they’ll be able to pick and choose and fill their bellies while the once-desperate pups are nursing their wounds and out of the competition.

[knackeredII]

galdian,

Don't quite get what point you're trying to make.

The problem as I see it, and it it's a big one, is that troops have become conditioned in Oz to accepting paying for your endorsement as the norm. Whether or not I'm from the 'traditional' system is irrelevant. What's relevant is that management is screwing the staff because they can. Do they pay for their on the job training once in the company? I think not! Do the secretaries pay for their improvement courses whilst on the job? Do the baggage handlers pay for their training after joining the company? Do the LAMEs pay for their qualifications and tickets as they earn them? I think not!

So why do we feel that we should be paying for ours just because they say we must?

You misunderstand me. I'm not asking individuals to say no. I'm just asking you to see that this is not the norm. This is an abomination brought on by exploitive management practices which are a product of the times and confined to only a few countries, it is certainly not the norm elsewhere.

Management practices of the last 10 to 15 years has all been about taking money from the pocket of workers and lining their own pockets with the proceeds. I've been around long enough to observe the different approaches of different generations of management and the current generation is by far the worst.

Don't get me wrong, galdian. I'm on your side.

[Gnadenburg]

There is truth in what you say Gnadenberg. I don't believe it should be the "norm" for pilots to pay for ratings and I am sure this will change as demand overtakes supply.

I expect it to fall over everywhere but Australia. Domestic flying will be further dumbed down.

Inflationary pressures will possibly be felt first in less glamorous places such as the regionals- anecdotal suggests this has occurred in Europe.

Geez haven't seen your moniker for yonks - been on sabbatical or something??
Nice lateral thinking (or gentle stirring of the pot, whatever your preference) - as usual!

The first few years in an airline were the financially formative ones. If you compound paying for the endorsement it's unfortunate without going into specifics or missed investment cycles. Too bad. So sad I suppose.

Trouble is, the same guys that get attracted to the meagre returns of low cost aviation will in the future probably behave like coolie trash on the open market.

Did you know some of your former colleagues are sexing up their EK packages with fanciful numbers including million dollar retainers?

Professional due dilligence should be an encouraged topic of discussion in Virgin Blue.

[goddamit]

knackered & others, I agree...my previous quote about management mindset must change will happen over time, & it will! As competition for desired candidates increases so will the package attractiveness. It can never be pressured on the individual. Most these days will see a lifestyle improvement beyond their own history in aviation if they score their job. In other words they could see a command on a jet within 8 yrs. A few yrs ago that figure was as low as 2 yrs. Times are very good for the up & coming these days, however this will all slow down soon enough & then the tide will turn with improved conditions again(including the edorsement paying). Its not right to pay for training, but let's put in financial terms for discussion. I spent about 100k in my training over 8yrs prior to the majors. This included everything & self funded. Many share my experience here. Another 25k(or 25% more) for a near guarranteed jet command within a few years is not a high price to pay. Salary increase will pay for this within less than a year. A small price to pay.
However yes it is not right to have to pay for it, the company should, but these are the times we live in, & the market is still competitive. Just the hours looked at is dropping. Oz will be a country involved in the MCL. I shudder at this thought but for all ATPL holders out there this could lead to better packages for holding an ATPL rather than th MCL.(sorry for deviating from the topic). Again this is yet another time to live in we are yet to experience.

By the way good luck to all guys /girls going to interviews.

[DirtyLaundry]

Anyone notified if successful or not yet??

[SIUYA]

godammit...............

my previous quote about management mindset must change will happen over time, & it will!

Correct observation I'd say. :ok:

With demand for pilots now becoming greater than supply, crew T&C 'packages' are going to become one of the big drivers of cost for ALL airlines, whether they like it or not.

If airlines aren't recognising that fact now, and that the cost of attracting and retaining sufficient numbers of pilots to keep their aircraft flying is very soon going to be a key structural driver of overall costs in their business models, then their continuing to treat pilots' T&Cs as an opportunity to make what they presently seem to regard as an easy and low-level cost-reduction or cost-stabilisation measure in the mistaken belief that supply of pilots is going to remain greater than demand is inevitably going to become very damaging to them indeed.

And it's going to be sooner than management realises if they look at the projected demand for pilots worldwide in the next ten years.

If the mistaken belief remains firmly 'embedded' in management attitudes that supply of pilots is going to remain greater than demand, then it will probably prove fatal to them. :ooh:

[VH-ABC]

Got a reply, and have sim/interview scheduled. Have 6000 hours, 2000 jet and said no to paying for endorsement.

[galdian]

VH-ABC
Congrats on the interview, hope all goes well!

Now not being negative but believe any improvements in T&C in general will be achieved by a thousand cuts rather than a single large leap, would be interested to hear after the event how your declining the endorso cost went down or whether they play dumb ("..what, you said no, we missed that as EVERYONE always says yes, well you're here now and we DO have an offer but it will be at your cost...so what's your answer???) and/or what carrots/inducements (both good and bad) they put forward.

Of course as I have said before put your best foot forward, go for it with all your heart and effort and if offered a position - THEN you have a real decision to make, as such both an enviable and unenviable position.

Best of luck! :ok:

[pilotshorvath]

20th July 2007:


Got a reply, and have sim/interview scheduled. Have 6000 hours, 2000 jet and said no to paying for endorsement.


So VH-ABC, how did it all go?