European flight plans

[Broomstick Flier]

Good day,

I've been trying to find an answer to this for some time and wasn't very lucky neither on the EuroControl website nor on the ATC section of the jepp manual, perhaps the local experts can shed some light...

I'm needing to know how long ATC flight plans are valid after the EOBT, 60 min? 45 min? 15 min? What are the deadlines for making a DLA/CHG? And off course, with how much advance, in regards to the planned EOBT, the plan has to be filled?

I understand that some countries have differente policies regarding this and as I mentioned, this is not easily found.

Well, maybe I'm looking on the wrong places :ugh:

Thanks for any inputs!


Best regards,

Salz

[Sid Starz]

30 mins I believe?

[LB1985]

From what I know, a flightplan will become active 15 minutes before the EOBT and expire 15 minutes after the EOBT.

[spitfire_sl]

Ive had instances where id forget to delay the flight plan and putting in a DLA message still worked even after 1 hour after the filed take off time. But i was alway taught it was valid for 30 minutes. Dont know about the CHG. I believe with Eurocontrol you can file a flight plan 4 days in advance.

[Broomstick Flier]

Thanks so far folks,

Indeed 30' rings a bell here, but I still think there are at least two contries where it's only 15'

In fact, one can file a flight plan with 5 days in advance with Eurocontrol

Cheers

Salz

[Buzzz]

If you have been issued with a CTOT (restricted slot) then you have a -5/+10 minutes window. You also have to take into consideration the taxi allocation.

For example if you have been issued with a 12:10Z CTOT and at an airport with a 15 minute taxi time allocation, your window to request engine start is between 11:50Z & 12:05Z.

With an ETOT (unrestricted slot) I believe its technically -15/+15 minutes, however I beleive at several locations they go on -30/+30 minutes.

Cheers,

Buzzz

[Buzzz]

With regards to how far in advance you can file flight plans with EuroControl it could well be 4 or 5 days, however a lot can change in those few days.

Aside from the fact that you won't have any valid weather forecasts for accurate alternate selection, there could be any number of NOTAM's or airway closures which could result in FPL suspension on the day of operation.

Buzzz

[Chilli Monster]

Flight Plans in the IFPS zone (Europe) require a DLA to be put in when the aircraft is running more than 15 minutes later than it's EOBT.

HOWEVER - Don't (as I've seen done) DLA the plan if the aircraft is running slightly late and is on a CTOT (even if it looks like it'll just miss its -5/+10 minute window there). Liaise with ATC first - that 5 minute delay could change into an hour and we might be doing something in the background to get your flight away.

If you want to depart more than 15 minutes earlier you're meant to cancel and re-file. The problem with this is that your departure clearance is actually issued (from the UK centres anyyway) 20 minutes before EOBT. Cancelling means suspending the clearance until the new plan is in the system. So, from a practical point of view, don't do the above unless you want to go more than 30 minutes earlier than the original EOBT.

Flight Plans can be filed up to a week in advance (used to be 96 hours)

[plans123]

CM,
I was always under the impression that if the flight was ready to go early, a Ready Message would suffice, rather than go through cancelling your plan and re-filing, which could on a bad day in effect delay your flight by becoming subject to a CTOT.

[Chilli Monster]

Plans123

Ready messages are there to try and bring forward a CTOT - nothing to do with the FPL EOBT itself. You cannot submit a Ready message if there is no CTOT and the flight is not subject to flow regulation.

[plans123]

Cheers CM, thats me told, should have paid more attention in CFMU procedures 101!!! lol :ok:

[easyDays]

This thread just sums it all up…
We need a JAR flight dispatch licence urgently to educate these sorts of things. If the basics are misunderstood then how is the whole industry meant to function. Yes the answers are on the CFMU site but without training how are people to know what to look for..:8

[Celestar]

Well .. I have all the licenses required and 10 years of dispatch experience and I still can't give a firm answer to the question .. :)

[routechecker]

Actually the "lifetime" of FPLs in IFPS is EOBT+Total EET+3 hours.
E.g. a flight from Barcelona to Manchester, with a EOBT at 10:00, flight time 02:01, will close in IFPS at 15:01.
That means that technically the AO can send a DLA/CHG well past the EOBT, which will be accepted and distributed.
So, in principle ATC systems must be able to accept updates well past the 30 min nr.
Still, as mentioned before ,AO's have to update their EOBT if delaying more than 15 min.
Failure to do so, in areas where Flight Activation Monitoring is enabled, will entail an FLS at EOBT+30 min if nor reported airborne.

rgds

[Broomstick Flier]

Thanks for the very informative answers folks! :ok:

[Kain_74]

you can find an answer to you question here :

http://www.cfmu.eurocontrol.int/cfmu/gallery/content/public/userdocs/docs/handbook_atfcm_11a.pdf

there is a quick reference guide

rgds
Kain

[Broomstick Flier]

Kain

Vielen Dank!

Gruss,

BF

[crjlover]

tecnically it should be valid -0/+15 (at least italy and germany). But many times they didn't ask to update the FPL till +30 or even +45 (specially in germany).

[ralle72]

@crjlover:
that may be correct but when not updating your iobt you will recieve a nice little FLS (flight suspension) telex faster than you think:rolleyes:

[crjlover]

It depends from where you leave. You get a FLS after: IOBT + TAXI + 30 minutes. That means that in EDDM you will get a FLS at IOBT + 50. Normally we update earlyier but should we forget to do....

[ralle72]

@crjlover. same with us.
you know how it is:
heavy ops and/or suddenly ending important ebay auctions.
and before you can say knife you´ll get the fls :O

[benftima]

a very nice discussion ,
the cfmu hand book is clear and you have to update your fpl in 15mn after eobt for all ifps zone .
a little problem still existing is when we loop a CTOT and the aircraft is ready whthin 5 minutes more than the window -5/+10 +10 we can a great delay and passenger are o/b and it will be problem for both the company and atc and parking , sometimes we get new big ctot 10 mn before taxiing . ...

but i ve seen the cfmu book and i ve liked this paragraph:

Can I ‘freeze’ my slot?
No. However, if the CTOT received is acceptable,
then a DLA message should be sent to IFPS using
the following formula :New EOBT must not be later
than CTOTminus taxitime minus 10 minutes.
Example : EOBT 1000, CTOT 1100, but the flight
cannot go off blocks until 1025. The taxitime is 15 minutes.
Calculation :1100 – 15, minus 10 = 1035.
The new EOBT must be earlier than 1035,in order not to
trigger a revised CTOT. (http://www.benftima.4t.com/rich_text_3.html)