Air-Berlin takeover by Ryanair?

[hetfield]

German magazine focus is speculating today about possible takeover.

http://www.focus.de/finanzen/boerse/aktien/luftfahrt/air-berlin_aid_65577.html

[oncenterline]

http://www.n-tv.de/823640.html
Rumour has it that Ryanair is after Air-Berlin. Shares have gone up 5.8% resp. 1.4%. Neither airline would comment.

[Avman]

So, the end of the world is closer than I thought! I hope this isn't true. I can't see the majority of Germans accepting the inferior service Ryanair offer in contrast with Air Berlin. They are worlds apart. Naah, this must be a wind up with an ulterior motive.

[virginblue]

Well, as its is known, after resigning as Ryanair CEO, Michael O'Leary will begin his career in the movies, playing the villain in the forthcoming James Bond movies (you know, the one with the white cat on his lap and the desire to dominate the world by all sorts of dirty games).....

[copycatz]

I wonder how Ryanair could buy Air Berlin? Ryanair's shares are dropping, and same for load factors (http://airscoop.*************/2007/07/ryanairs-june-seats-percentage-down.html)...
In this difficult situation, I don't believe Ryanair could buy the third european low-cost carriers....

[kingair9]

Posted this in the "rumours" section beforen being told there is a thread here:

Various serious German media are reporting that Ryanair is interested in a share in Germany's AirBerlin. It is supposed to be interested in the 10.8% of the total shares that Deutsche Bank is holding.

Background: After the takeover of rival scheduled carrier DBA and scheduled + charter carrier LTU, AB is now Germany's 2nd largest airline.

AB also acquired a 50% stake in Swiss carrier BelAir, therefore not only owning long-range planes (330) and rights through LTU but also through BelAir ex Switzerland. Joint fleet of the group: Approx. 90 planes of which approx. 15-20 are long-range.

Ryanair declined any comment, AB stated that they don't know - which might even be true as according to German law an institutional investor such as Deutsche Bank is not obliged to notifiy the company when it is negotiating with a potential buyer.

[kingair9]

Well, as its is known, after resigning as Ryanair CEO, Michael O'Leary will begin his career in the movies, playing the villain in the forthcoming James Bond movies (you know, the one with the white cat on his lap and the desire to dominate the world by all sorts of dirty games).....


Just have finished reading "Ryanair - How a small Irish airline conquered Europe" and have to say that if all is true, this role might be just too humanitarian for him.

:cool:

[Doug E Style]

I really hope this doesn't happen. I fly Air Berlin several times a year and their service is better than some "legacy" carriers.

[kotakota]

Copycatz ,

If you think that Ryanair cannot afford a major buy-out then you know nothing about the current finances of the airlines in question. They have huge cash in the bank.
I am not a RY lover , or employee , but I am a realist , and the reality is that Ryanair have enormous clout these days , cash wise.
I believe that AB cannot hold a candle to RYs finances , please prove me wrong and I will apologise unreservedly.

happy flying.
KK

[EGAC_Ramper]

Certainly Ryanair have HUGE csah reserves something in the lines of a billion+++++ . Personally 'd hate to see them take over Air Berlin.

[copycatz]

kotakota,

you're right about huge cash reserve of Ryanair
buying Air Berlin for the sake of buying is possible, but I talk here about sustainable business
load factors of the carriers are dropping (http://www.reuters.com/article/tnBasicIndustries-SP/idUSDUB00034520070704), so one way to compensate these drops is to get a bigger fleet
That's why Ryanair ordered around 20 new aircrafts recently
If we think about the strategy one second: Ryanair like other low-cost carriers have open routes that were the most profitable and they stimulate demands on these routes
Now that these routes are saturated, they look for new ones that are farer (risk on the business model...) and obviously these routes are less profitable
(because there were not the first choice)
So to sum up, yes Ryanair has enough cash to buy Air Berlin, but no this business model is not sustainable
easyjet business model with its networking strategy (versus Ryanair's expanding strategy) and frequent daily flights seems more solid to face the slowdown of the market

[MarkD]

I wonder will FR keep the 5 x 737-700s if MOL is not thwarted as with EI - presumably the A320s and F100s will go on the block.

[Denti]

Interesting to see this announcement in the light of the recent interest from RYR into long range operations:

SEATTLE, July 07, 2007 -- On the eve of the unveiling of the world's newest commercial jetliner, the 787 Dreamliner, The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] and Air Berlin announced an order for 25 787-8 airplanes valued at $4 billion at list prices. The order is the single largest placed by any European carrier and brings the total number of 787s ordered worldwide to 677.

Air Berlin, based in Berlin, Germany, is Europe's third largest low-fare carrier. Long focused primarily on the low-fare market, Air Berlin will add long-haul destinations, with the ultra-efficient 787 serving as the cornerstone of its twin-aisle, long-haul fleet.

Last year Air Berlin purchased German carrier dba as part of its growth plan.

"The 787 is perfectly suited for our new long-haul services," said Joachim Hunold, chief executive officer of Air Berlin. "It is hands-down the best aircraft to deliver the optimum combination of fuel efficiency, environmental performance and passenger comfort that we need to successfully grow our business and deliver a superior product for our customers. Passengers will fall in love with this airplane. The 787's many ground-breaking innovations make it a powerful tool for profitability."

On top of the 25 orders, Air Berlin is securing 10 options and 15 purchase rights for additional 787s.

"Air Berlin's order is further validation of the 787's suitability for a broad spectrum of airline models," said Marlin Dailey, vice president of Sales for Europe, Russia and Central Asia, Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "For global network and long-haul carriers, and for charter and leisure carriers and innovative low-fare carriers like Air Berlin, the 787 will be a flexible, profitable asset. The Dreamliner will be a magnificent addition to Air Berlin's growing fleet.

"Air Berlin today is making history by placing Europe's largest 787 order to date, and it will continue to make history as it leverages the 787's game-changing capabilities to evolve its business model and position in the highly-competitive European market." Air Berlin did not announce an engine supplier for its 787s.

The Boeing 787 Dreamliner provides passengers with a better flying experience and operators with more efficient commercial jetliners. Using 20 percent less fuel per passenger than similarly sized airplanes, the 787 is designed for the environment with lower emissions and quieter takeoffs and landings. Inside the airplane, passengers will find cleaner air, bigger windows, more stowage space and improved lighting.

The first 787 is on schedule for delivery to the first customer in May 2008. Including Air Berlin, 47 customers have ordered 677 787s, making it the most successful launch of a commercial airplane in Boeing history.

Further to that Air Berlin has the option in its earlier 737-700 order to switch from 737 to 787.

[RAT 5]

I hope the LoCo's who go longhaul will not configure their cabins with the same seats as shorthaul; i.e. cramped leg room and no recline. The thought of more than 2 hours in such conditions will drive pax to other more comfortable carriers. The market will decide. It could be an expensive mistake to need a reconfiguration within 1 year.

[Shed-on-a-Pole]

RAT5 -

I agree with you that extra legroom is required for longhaul, but non-reclining seats are FANTASTIC ! Reclining one's own seat MAY enhance comfort to a very marginal degree, but that is MASSIVELY outweighed by the extreme discomfort of having some selfish individual fully recline their seat into your face for several hours. It becomes difficult to read, eat or use the seatback entertainment system, not to mention the cramped, claustrophobic conditions.

Why are airlines so obsessed with reclining seats anyway? Why do they assume that passengers love reclining seats? Do they ever ask us or do any research? I know many frequent flyers who agree with me totally on this. Air Berlin and others please note: I AM PREPARED TO PAY MORE FOR USE OF A CABIN WITH NON-RECLINING SEATS. I want to use the space I have paid for to make MYSELF comfortable on the flight!

This is the one innovation which Ryanair has introduced which actually improves the passenger experience.

[dumdumbrain]

Ryanair has more leg room than most loco, 31", the main reason why Ryanair stoped having reclining seats is because pax seem to break them.

[ZeBedie]

non-reclining seats are FANTASTIC

Couldn't agree more. Reclining seat are a PITA.

[NickBarnes]

Yep Get rid of the reclining seats, had some selfish person:mad: do that to me on my last flight which was 3 hours long, probally the worst flight i had ever been on.

[egnxema]

Can I just ask? When all the seats in a cabin recline, why is it an indication of selfishness for the individual in front of me to choose to recline their seat?

If I recline my seat the space between seatbacks remains the same.

NickBarnes, get over yourself.

[dumdumbrain]

Hang on, back in the day when Ryanair seats did recline, rows 16,17 and 33 didn't, and the room is actually from the corner of the L to the back other the seat in front so it dpont actually matter if the seat in fronts goes back, on actualy leg room, but does to your overall space.

And what does leg room have to go with Ryanair taking over Air Berlin?

sleazyJet leg room 30" :*
Ryanair leg room 31" makes all the difference :)

*was mytravellite 28 or 29""? can someone pvt me

[Buster the Bear]

With all the 787's on order, the long haul brand of Ryanair?

[dumdumbrain]

To be honest I don't know how the two companies could actually work together. Different a/c, I just dont see it going to work and coming from someone who works for Ryanair. It would cost too much to change to all 737-800, and Ryanair only wants one type of a/c. So will the two work together or Ryanair just takes it's routes?

I dunno I will ask about when im next in work

Lee

[NickBarnes]

Can I just ask? When all the seats in a cabin recline, why is it an indication of selfishness for the individual in front of me to choose to recline their seat?

If I recline my seat the space between seatbacks remains the same.

NickBarnes, get over yourself.

I agree that if someone puts there seat back that you have the same leg room but apart from that it feels very close to you, and not very nice.

yeh if you recline your seat it remains the same but then the person behind gets the same problem:ugh:

why have a dig at me other people have said exactly the same thing in this thread as me.

sorry for having an opinion

[Bokkenrijder]

Ok ok...can we please stop the bickering about SEAT PITCH?!?!?!

Thank you! :)

[RAT 5]

The only reason to recline a seat is not annoy the pax behind, but because the 'upright' angle is too painful for anyone over 5'6". It has been stated, in air rage discussions, that the seat-back angle of airline seats is the same as used in interogations when wishing to deprive the victim of sleep and cause discomfort.

I have travelled on the more comfortable airlines, where their overwing exit seats do not recline as per the norm, but the fixed seat-back angle was acceptable. The discomfort to pax is not recline per se, but the amount of recline. Half the amount would be all that is necessary to avoid the back ache caused by present designs. The fixed angle would not effect the price of manufacture.

Thus, a non recline seat is OK if the fixed angle is suitable. At the moment it is not!

[virginblue]

Air Berlin's Boeing 737-800s, by the way, are sort of a different aircraft than Ryanair's. AB has what can be dubbed as "high-end" -800s, while Ryanair has the very very basic low-end model.

[Stan Woolley]

Virginblue

What exactly are the differences that make the Air Berlin 738's 'high end' ?

[CaptainFillosan]

I read today on Boeing's website that Air Berlin had ordered 25 x 787's with an add-on possibility of 15 more. Would MOL go along with that do you think? How would he utilise them? Or.......do you think he would run a mile. It is ahuge order and probably not fit for his routes.

On the other hand it may be that there was never a deal anyway!

Oh life is cruel sometimes.

[NickBarnes]

What exactly are the differences that make the Air Berlin 738's 'high end'

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5743319&nseq=9 this shows you what they are like inside:ok: