Prepared to work for Nothing!!!!!!

[15SQN]

Hi Guys
I am currently looking into becoming a Commercial Pilot and I intend to complete my training in South Africa.
I like to think that I am pretty much up to speed regarding the requirements to become a Com Pilot but more importantly I feel I have a pretty realistic outlook on employment from reading many of the threads and having friends in the business
A lot of people are gaining their Com in SA and looking at working in Botswana and other parts of Africa. Starting with single pistons aircraft and working their way up. This is a great approach if you are young and have time on your hands
I have another idea / thought and I would like feedback from you guys please.
Once I have completed my Com I was thinking of getting my Caravan rating and approaching a company with the following offer
The company signs me up for 2 months with no pay and after this period access my performance / attitude and see if they would like to keep me on.
Although I am very keen to fly single piston engines in Botswana I also feel I need to get a head start on my career.
I need to stress that I am by no means rich but I have been fortunate enough to save enough money to finance this idea
I know this approach has been discussed before with mixed reviews but I interested to know if there are companies, particularly in Africa, that would be interested in this proposal.
Any feedback will be greatly appreciated
Thanks
15

[JetPark]

Be careful here!! Nothing upsets the market like a Pilot who is willing to work for nothing. And why should you work fo rnothing? You have a professional (will have) qualification.:=

Training Bond - yes, work for free - no!

[SpootNICK]

Hold me back, hold me back.......Im gonna moer him!!!! :*

Work for free..........NO! :ugh:

[George Tower]

This is a great approach if you are young and have time on your hands


No.......that is a great approach if you have no respect for yourself ,your colleagues or the profession you are seeking to join.:=

Taken at face value your posts might suggest a silver-spoon lifestyle thus far, but bear in mind most guys have families to support and commercial flying is a career not a hobby.

Part of me thought you might be a BS merchant at first but having checked your previous posts I'd suggest you're misguided. You might get some stick from the guys in this forum but please take to heart what they're saying and hopefully you will change your ideas.

Rgds

GT

[Fliterisk]

This thread is going places... what a controversial post...:eek::eek:
I dont think you are misguided about anything other than your future peers, the value of money, your self respect, and perhaps life, people and and and...... You're not going to make any friends... anywhere if you go telling everyone that...

For one thing I wouldnt want to work for an operator who is happy to pay you... nothing. Must surely say something about him/her.

Secondly, I suppose it may seem like a solution and perhaps it is for you, however, dont forget that while flying may seem like lots of fun and warm the cockles of your heart for now, it will become your job and you will end up wondering why you sold your soul like that.

Thirdly, do you expect to get respect from your employer?

Fourthly, I wouldnt "employ" you for that. What interest do you have in working properly...? Money has to play a part!

Fifth... why dont you at least try and get a job with a salary? Are you that unconfident?

Sixth... EVERYONES impression must be that life has been easy for you.

Maybe you made money easily, maybe you were given it, whatever, but if you want to "fly for nothing" then spend some money on advanced training, buy an aircraft.. .whatever, but your idea isnt a great one and sounds like you are spoilt - even if you are not!

Seventh... Self respect... did I say that before?

Eigth... have you forgotten how hard it is to make money in the first place?
Th list goes on... wanna hear more?:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::hmm::hmm:

[Yossarian]

Things were obviously too quiet on the forum. Wind up alert!

[15SQN]

Guys

Before any ones get mored here, I would like to point out a few things

I am not rich and do not come from a wealthy background

I am a firm believer in exploring all options, “doing your homework” as they say, hence this thread. There is nothing worse than following path and later realising that you had other options open to you

So the reason for this thread is to get feedback from people/pilots in the business who have been through what I expect to go through one day.

This thread is purely for research and was not intended to wind anybody up or upset anyone

I would prefer you come back to me with your, as apposed to following this possible idea

15

[cougar77]

I believe this "research" have been conducted a few times before with unsatisfactory results.

[JetPark]

I would say that the "research" is complete looking at the replies up until now :rolleyes: but without being rude to the poor fellow - guess it is more ignorance than anything else.

[I.R.PIRATE]

Simple rule in this game : do what prostitutes do.


....and they would never, ever do that!!!!!:}:*:=

[I.R.PIRATE]

Working in the aviation industry:

1. We work weird shifts…Like prostitutes

2. They pay you to make the client happy… Like a prostitute

3. You are rewarded for fulfilling the client’s dreams… Like a prostitute

4. Your friends fall apart and you end up hanging out with people in the same profession as you… Like a prostitute

5. When you have to meet the client you always have to be perfectly groomed… Like a prostitute

6. But when you go back home it seems like you are coming back from hell… Like a prostitute

7. The client always wants to pay less but expects incredible things from you… Like a prostitute

8. When people ask you about your job, you have difficulties to explain it… Like a prostitute

9. Everyday when you wake up, you say: “I’M NOT GOING TO SPEND THE REST OF MY LIFE DOING THIS” … Like a prostitute

REMARKS: The only difference is the prostitutes can take Christmas and New Year’s Eve off and they actually DO make a lot of money!!!

If you know someone in the aviation industry please shares this with them so they don’t feel bad anymore… Like a prostitute

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

""""1. We work weird shifts…Like prostitutes

2. They pay you to make the client happy… Like a prostitute

3. You are rewarded for fulfilling the client’s dreams… Like a prostitute

4. Your friends fall apart and you end up hanging out with people in the same profession as you… Like a prostitute

5. When you have to meet the client you always have to be perfectly groomed… Like a prostitute

6. But when you go back home it seems like you are coming back from hell… Like a prostitute

7. The client always wants to pay less but expects incredible things from you… Like a prostitute

8. When people ask you about your job, you have difficulties to explain it… Like a prostitute

9. Everyday when you wake up, you say: “I’M NOT GOING TO SPEND THE REST OF MY LIFE DOING THIS” … Like a prostitute """"""



Speek for your self I.R.PIRATE .
This is who are you .Not the pilots category.
Riccardo Volante

[JetPark]

Volante - what are you talking about?

This is a fun forum as well my friend - and I thought IR's quip was rather amusing - a bit of light humour and in many respects quite true :)

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm:

Well, actually, the man has a perfectly valid point which could be worth exploring in greater detail.
There might be many on the recruitment side of things who would never give this chap a job under the circumstances painted in his picture. This would be quite simply because the man is fairly obviously financially independent. Airlines absolutely detest employing pilots who are not equally absolutely desperate for a monthly salary cheque. If one does not have to have the job, the likelihood of finding it is immensely prejudiced.
The solution to this first quandary could be quite simple. Go ahead with the plan as far as finishing the type rating is concerned. This, of course, was funded by an aged relative's bequest? Having blown the inheritance from the dear little old aunt who lived in Potchefstrrom, one is devastatingly poor and must have the job to support one's mother, sister, dominie or Battersea dogs' home. Never admit to anything other than dependence hinging on the munificence of the airline's largesse.

In essence, what he is proposing to do here is no different from that which literally hundreds of pilots do up north when they pay for their own type ratings. Having put a 767 or whatever on the licence, they do in fact fly for nothing, for months on end whilst they pay back the loan taken out to fund said type rating. Certainly this pilot might be paid while flying but it is only payment on account. A realist would have difficulty finding the hair to put between either example. Each case, in its own way, is an example of the prostitution of labour.

No, what could do for 15SQN might be matters of minor importance such as work permits, residence permits or licence issue without citizenship. It is also just remotely possible that the attitudes behind an idea such as this might appear somewhat inimical to South Africans known, how shall one say, for preferring the gritty to the nitty?

As a small aside, it does occur to one that most pilots one knows cannot wait to get their legs in the air. Sadly, the same enthusiasm for wide bodied adventure, even motivated by the promise of substantial remuneration is decidedly lacking in those prostitutes of one's acquaintance, and there are many!:D

[I.R.PIRATE]

Volante --- There is no hope for you.:mad:

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

"'There is no hope for you.""
"
Of what? to be like you?

No thanks you do not even deserve to be call a pilot .
well like you say ......Pro....

[chopperkie]

I.R Pirate is absolutely right!We are all just to ashamed to admit it!And that is true!!:ok:

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

that is not true.I.R Pirate is absolutely wrong

[Avvy]

Boy can i see this going round in circles. I.R Pirate im with you on that one.
Little bit of humour never hurt anyone....well almost anyone.:ok:

[Shunanny]

Ouch.

I.R P. you hit the nail on the head ................and it hurts...some:\


Young?chap, who wants to fly for free..a big NO NO.
Why sell your soul for free when you can at least get something for it.

Or do you not trust your abilities?

I lest school 3 years before I got my first job..HARD but worth the wait.

I still have my dignity intact.

Where there's a will......... fill in the gaps:ok:

[flaps 15 3 green]

Are you a slave? Would you like to be one? With comments like that you're sure to be on the band wagon soon enough! Do you bend over when people ask?

[cougar77]

IRP
I with you on this one too....the way we work is similar in nature. :D

[SIC]

Volante - get a life - and while you' re at it why don't you look up " sense of humour" somewhere. And then despair - cause its something you will never have.

15 - This is obviously a cheap wind up by you. Lots of guys have done what you propose and it might or might not work. But I can guarantee you you will not get positive comments about your plan for prostitution here - rather go and ask the slimeballs who 'manage' aviation companies - they are obviously the one's you want to get screwed by. So why ask us?:cool:

[JetPark]

Good comment there SIC. I think he is winding everyone up - he's got to be - he can't be serious. If he is - he's in trouble and sure has a lot to learn. But then we all learned along the way and thank heavens for a sense of humour which is what gets most people through life.

This is a fun thread. Have you got anything else for us up your sleeve when this one runs out Volante?

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

This is a fun thread."""
Good JetPark go back to the strato.. where you belong and get some helio so you can have more fun and stop to be the sokker it is just disgusting.


get a life """
SIC I got your life at the moment , Why shall I have to have another one ? this is fun.Any time you get back to me in this forum I get your time ... your LIFE.

Another question
Why you .... worry about me and do not help that guy that is looking for an answer?
Tell him how you Guys did you get you firstjob.How much did you sock....despite other pilos? How many others piots did you STAB on the back and destroy their carrer in aviation in orther for you to get your JOB?ID PIrates is the Master on this matter .
This is FUN real fun
Sincerely Riccardo Volante

[I.R.PIRATE]

The fun Ritardo, is trying to figure out what on earth you are trying to say.

Luckily there are language proficiency checks on their way, so I wont worry too much about having to try and decypher WTF you are trying to say in the air. If your spoken engrish is anything like your written word, you are a hazard to aviation and need to be banished to outer mongolia.

[helldog]

Riccardo, where is your sense of humour? Mate in the past you have said some really stupid things, I always gave you the benefit of the doubt and figured that you were just upset at not being able to find work. I thought somehow deep down you might just be a decent bloke. But no you have once again a proven to be miserable :mad: My last bit of advice to you is dont take yourself so seriously, grow a sense of humour and stop giving people sh!t for no reason.

[JetPark]

Volante, my dear friend, you posted a question and to which I made the first reply. That was the answer to your quest for advice. If you then read what follows, you will see just how nicley I had put it originally but yet you continue to make a fool of yourself despite all the other responses to your post. Have you not yet got the message? But, like I say, it's fun anyway. Sadly, these days, I get little opportunity to remain in the stratosphere as the business end of my business keeps me on dear mother earth. I did give advice - 30 years of it my mate. I shall continue to take a look at your responses - helps me get over the last account I got from the maintenance guys on my aircraft.:eek:

[Deskjocky]

Volante, I would suggest you skip across to the fly Africa forum, perhaps they will have an appetite for your special view of the world.:rolleyes:

[passionforflying]

15SQN,

hmmm.... flying for nothing...? I believe this has been answered now in this thread. Though, to be honest, a similar question seems to follow you during your whole aviation career..... eg. shall I pay for my next rating in order to maybe speed up my career.....? I am convinced most pilots have asked themselves this question several times during their career, so in a way the same thing really.
But this is not why I am answering to this thread. I think it might be rather tricky to get yourself a work permit in S.A. if you aren t South African. I remember to have answered you to another thread a while ago when you were asking about caravan rating and job opportunities in Botswana.
The same should apply for South Africa I'd assume. It's probably rather unlikely that someone would hire you ( paid or not) to fly their caravan until you ve got around 1000 hrs simply for the fact that the insurance costs to cover you will be too high.
Unless you start on the right hand seat of a caravan. In fact there are plenty of jobs on ZS registered aircraft going at the moment doing contract flying in neighbouring African countries.
Starting salaries might be slightly better than in Botswana.
So you might be able to "queue-jump" the little pistons you don t seem to like, but unfortunately there is no way to "queue-jump" these essential first 1000 hrs of experience. And I do believe, building this experience as single crew , especially in little "elderly piston aircraft" will put you ahead of the queue in the long run. Also remember, Multi crew on the caravan has been debated for a long time and you'll definately will have to sit on the right hand seat for a very long time in order to log enough hours for your next higher license as correctly you can only count half of them towards it.
I ve done both, the contract flying and the Okavango Delta in Botswana. If you ask me, take your money so you can top up your salary if you have to and have a most phantastic year in Botswana and gain enough experience, so that after a year, the choice is yours.
Good luck.

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

passionforflying ,
That is a good post ,good answers,realistic and intelligent.I am with you.
Regards
Riccardo Volante

[15SQN]

Thanks PFF:D
I agree I think this has been answered and I appreciate all the responses here. It is a huge commitment leaving family and kids behind to pursue a dream and perhaps there are no short cuts in this line of work
I guess a more positive follow on from this thread would be something like “where are you now in your career, how did you get there and if you did it again would you change your approach and how” but perhaps we keep that for a rainy day
Thanks to all who responded

[SIC]

15

When I was doing my com there were no work and we were all despondent. However through determination and never doing any flying for free or paying for a rating ( I did pay a bond - partially - when I left one company for another ) I have gone from single pistons to a major airline in six years. In that time I instructed at several schools, worked for two charter companies and a corporate and am now in my third airline job - hopefully the last one. I sent easily a hundred CV's over this time and flew an average of 900 hours a year for the last 5 years.

That is how you do it.

[cargodoor]

I would never work for nothing. There are however the companies out there that you can get jobs with at your stage that pay you to fly their caravan (if that is the aircraft you want to try and start your carreer on). If you have a SA com then maybe try something like FEDAIR where i think you will be right hand seat on the van for a while and then move to the left. If you go to somewhare like maun you will start on the 206 and then move onto the van in about a year or so any way and you will have logged all PIC time single engine.

In my small opinion i would go for the PIC time in maun. you will get bonded in maun but if you fulfil your contract you won't have to pay a cent and you will get paid a salary and you will come out of there with about 2000 hours, all single PIC time with some turbine hours in the logbook. Not such a bad deal if you look at it in comparison to wanting to work for free. do the research though and see what works for you. read PFF post, it makes a lot of sense.

CD

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Paying to fly for a company like Fedair merely opens the door for companies to further screw pilots. Want a job? Then pay us. Oh, and when your money runs out (or even before then) the next guy in line gets your job, and in the long run you've made a company very happy by maximising their profits but you've screwed yourself and your mates.

RV

Opposable thumbs giving you a little trouble, boet?

Full throttle, dry tank...:rolleyes:

[mc001]

I can see guys can get very aggressive on this site, or maybe i should say passionate!

Unfortuantly I cant answer the question will an employer take you on if you offer your services as I only fly for fun but i thought I would add to the debate.

I cant see why the following scenrio is not valid.

Pilot A - leaves school, enjoys life at 21 finishes comm, does instructors for a couple of years, the goes to a charter in africa flying C182 for another couple of years and moves on etc, lifes good.

Pilot B -same passion as flying as pilot A, marries young, has a child, works in job he used to like, is 28 and hates his proffession (let say plumbing proffession). Still has a mortgage, wife and child. Convinces wife flying is a passion and finnally she agrees he can spend their savings on the dream. Pays for comm, is 29 and desperate for a job. has 50k left in the bank of savings, still has to pay all his bills and so far is not silver spooned as some might imply.

Desperate for job still some money in the bank, wants to convert on a caravan and start his career he ask employers for work expierence and he will finanicially support himself. He clocks up the hours which makes him more marketable. Company either gives him a job seeing hes' a good egg, or ..

Job come out, most have 100hrs carvan. Pilot A doesnt have but pilot b does. Why is their an issue?

This doesnt mean he devalues himself like quoted, practical and dedicated and finnally his career take offs and passion resumed.

Does anyone remember work experience and apprentiships?

[Solid Rust Twotter]

The difference being that Pilot B is selfishly depriving someone of a salary by paying for his hours while working. In the long run he screws himself and the industry in that it becomes unnecessary to hire crews if you can get low time cojoes to fly for free, and even pay for their hours.

At the end of the day with 350 hours TT and 100 in C208, you're still a low time cojoe that is unemployable because the next low time cojoe is happy to pay the company to have your job. If you do get a job, the T&Cs will be severely reduced because they're doing you a favour by paying you when they can get someone else for free.

As for garnering any respect from your colleagues, try elsewhere. Any self respecting chief pilot with the crews' interests at heart will hesitate to employ someone who is willing to screw his colleagues to shortcut the system.

Cause and effect...

[mc001]

If the flying industry was a chivalrous industry I would agree. With friends in the industry I see them getting screwed by their employers and not coming from the industry it looks like they are abused by their employers.
It looks like respect takes a back burner by the cheif pilot. It a simple question 100TT on type X or no need to apply. Dont you agree? I am assuming this is for insurance etc.

[putt for dough]

pay as you go = a no no:=

[Solid Rust Twotter]

You'll notice I wrote "...self respecting chief pilot with the crews' interests at heart...". A company man who thinks shafting the crews is OK will probably have no problem with the damage it does to the industry. Just remember, Pilot B will also be part of that industry with it's ever eroding T&Cs, said erosion to which he has in no small measure contributed.

As for having 100 on type, why should they hire that person when they can get someone with zero on type who will pay them to work for them? 100 on type means nothing. You're still deep in the monkey hours while the next person is excluding you from employment by paying to do the job you want.


With friends in the industry I see them getting screwed by their employers and not coming from the industry it looks like they are abused by their employers.

They're getting screwed because employers just have to kick over a rock to find a dozen pilots willing to shaft their colleagues in this manner. The only winners here are the employers as long as crews are prepared to succumb to these practices.:ugh:

[ugflyer]

Check this out. Never ever accept to work for nothing. WHY?
Companies will get the idea that there are people out there willing to work for nothing and as a result will have very bad offers for pilots. And if anyone turns down the offer, the airline or operater will let you know that they can find someone to work for free.
Result is that it will turn around and bite you in the butt. Once you have your rating and experience, you will go up for a job interview with other applicants, but guess what? The other applicants will be willing to work for free. AND THEN YOU ARE SCREWED!

Later

[ZS340]

Hi 15SQN,
May I offer the following advice.
Ignore all cyncal,nasty, "smart" negative posts they are made by a small minority.

By all means come to SA and enroll with one of the reputable schools.

Plan A

Step 1 CPL
2 IR
3 C206/210 Type rating
4 C208 Rating
You should be able to get a job in the right seat of caravan

Plan B
Step 1 CPL
2 Grade 3 instructor rating
You should be able to get a job at a flight school

The afforementoned assumes that you are able to obtain the neccessary work permits.

Plan C
In the not to distant future legislation (NEW PART 61 CARS) will come into effect whereby a prospective carreer pilot will be able to:
Enroll at an approved training organization
Study and pass the ATP examnaions
Be issued with a student pilots licence
Be issued with a night rating
Be issued with an instrument rating on the student pilots licence
After 150 hours be issued with a CPL
Then from the time that the instrument rating is issued you will have 5 years to achieve the hours require for the issue of the ATP.

It is not an easy road. It is not an impossible road. It requires dedication and a passion for aeroplanes and all matters connected to aviation .

Do not let the cynics put you off. In africa we have a saying:
How do you eat an elephant?...... slowly one bite at a time.
South Africa is an awesome place to commit aviation. Weather is generally good. Lots of unrestricted airspaces. Great people.

Yes, like any other place on earth we have the negative aspects.However as a prospective pilot one has to learn to manage the risks.

Whatever you do NEVER work for nothing.

Cheers

[Contract Dog]

brokenkneecaps.com

Dog

[whodunnit2]

To those of you thinking of flying for free,

I remember thinking exactly the same thing when I started out. I had a job working as an office boy for a charter company but I was desperate to have a flying job. I had a comm and a promise that I will get my chance. I'll never forget reading about a 206 job up in Maun but you needed 300 hours and I had a fresh comm - oh the desperation. I wanted to call up and say, hey how about if I fly for free! I didn't though.

I stuck at it and eventually got my flying job, now not that many years later I'm only a year or three away from command on a widebody. Now I can't believe that I even contemplated flying for free.

Hang in there and follow some of the good advice blokes like 340 have given.

Whatever you do NEVER work for nothing.

W2

[flyingoose]

cause of sh:mad:t like this we get Raped in the industry!!!! Which is absolute HogWash!!! Thats why there are CPL pilots working for R2000.00 a month which in my opinion is wrong!!!, the unions should put a stop to crap like that and really earn their money!!!!:ugh:

[ZS340]

Hey Hey !! take it easy....the kids just asking a question.
"Flingnoose" do you eat with the same mouth that you speak with.

If you presented that kind of attitude and language on my flight deck, the standby would be called out before you completed the Before Start Checklist to the line.

Sheezz.....the industry is really scraping the bottom of the Barrel. What ever happened to the "officer and gentleman"

[cochise]

Sad to say, but I think that Unions are a thing of the past. Companies will do anything now a days to get rid of unions, including shutting the airline down and re-opening under a different name. It's a big fashion going on in the caribbean at the moment, hence the exodus of pilots to the middle east and africa.
I watched my father's generation at the top of their games when you worked for a couple companies in your lifetime and it wasn't uncommon to have guys fly for 39 years with the same airline and retire. Those days are gone, it's now up to you to see about yourself. Everyone has individual contracts and packages. It seems like they're trying to break the spirit of the pilot. If there's one thing I've learned about this industry it may not be that people will work for free but someone will always be willing to do it for cheaper! :ugh:
SO, DO NOT SELL YOURSELF SHORT!

[mc001]

Its good to see positive and informative posts from the differnt views. We deff know why not to fly for free :)

[flyingoose]

Hey 15SQN sorry about getting worked up about this topic,bad day at work! its just that its a situation that affects loads of us in SA, with companies taking advantage of this low pay or no pay situation regarding flying!, Many of us have gone through what you going through regarding that first job but its no excuse to work for nothing otherwise the industry is going to carry on the way its been taking advantage of people who have spent hard money and hard working hours to get a CPL only to realise that they going to be paid absolutely nothing!! Any how good luck with that 1st job and hope you do not have to go through what some have had to put up with:ok:! with regards to ZS340 you probably sitting on a cushy job at SAA and have never had to do hard flying for crap money! Easy to talk when you sitting at airways not affected by this situation! By the way wrong attitude"my flightdeck",good CRM:ok:!

[extreme P]

Better than working for free is flying a 757/767 as Captain for $5000USD/month for Ethiopian. Simply stunning and embarrasing.

[B?]

I agree with all that say nobody should ever work for free, screws everthing up.

BUT: Aren't all full time employees, airline or otherwise, doing the odd charter/instruction screwing somebody else that make a living out of freelancing,(building hours). ???

I know there is a lot of guys earning double salaries and more just because insurance company's req high time left seat guys which are't always available but from airlines, ect.

I suppose it is a bit of a moral question every man must decide on:" Do I earning R 50 000 a month do it AND is there nobody else QUALIFIED that NEEDS it." :confused:

Just wondering about all the screwing????

[chuks]

I remember once hearing from one of our "legends in his own mind" about how clever he had been paying for his own HS-125 type-rating, since this allowed him to jump the queue for getting on the type from the Twin Otter.

I got a bit huffy and told him he was just a whore. Then I had a quick re-think and said that, no, he was giving it away and ruining things for his fellow hard-working aviation whores, people like me. "I sell it and you are here giving it away! Where would we be if we were all expected to do our own type-ratings?" "Screwed" is where, of course.

He did get on the 125, yes. Then a funny thing happened: all the people he had climbed over and shat upon caught up with him and basically paid him back in his own coin so that he ended up back on the Twin Otter. When I met him again he was not quite so chirpy about the choices he had made. Then he died in a Twin Otter crash, which brought that little soap opera to a sudden end.

One very odd thing I have noticed is that people give you respect according to what you are paid. I don't know why that is; I feel like the same person I was when I was on good wages but now I find these little piss-ant people coming up and expecting me to kowtow, as if my self-respect had gone along with the good pay. Lucky for me the obvious solution came along, to take a better-paying job. Otherwise I was going to be stuck with a permanent conflict between who I am (or perhaps just who I think I am) and who people think I am, not a recipe for happiness.

To work for nothing would suggest that you would be treated like scum. From a start like that how would you expect to get to a position of respect? That crummy beginning would hang on you like a North Korean suit. You would always be known as "The Guy Who Worked for Nothing," and aviation is a very small world.

[SIC]

Quoting 340:

"If you presented that kind of attitude and language on my flight deck, the standby would be called out before you completed the Before Start Checklist to the line."


My my - bet you're a real pleasure to fly with officer. :\

[DIVESAILFLY]

To placate the whining pilots who already have cushy jobs and are to stingy to invest in their own future - yeah those of you who sit in Vans, King Airs and the like, bitching about high Airline salaries and having to work as an admin clerk hoping to get a flight :{- there are a few other alternatives you might want to investigate. They are by no means cheap, but it will give you a leg up in an otherwise difficult industry.
Go to www.atpflightschool.com (http://www.atpflightschool.com) for a look-see. It basically involves paying to fly as a co-pilot in the States to build time and experience in an airline environment. So that when an airline eventually hires you they don't have to spend time training the bush pilot out you. Personally I fail to see how washing a/c or working as an admin clerk is any better than flying for free (at least it's flying). I personally followed the so-called "honourable route", but now regret not having followed the "dark side" as my career would have been much further along. So good luck in whatever path you choose - get in now as hopefully there will be a great shortage of pilots soon! (Yeah right):}
PS: If you fly for free for a limited time it allows the company to pay the rest of the pilots more - so a win-win really!:D:D

[Contract Dog]

Utter BS, it allows the company to pocket more cash! it will not go to the other crew. To advance your career by bying hrs! where does it end? flying a 747 for free to build up heavy time? We work to get money to buy food to get energy to go to work again and maybe invest a bit too!

Dog

PS, Kingairs are paying a lot better than airlines :cool:

[DIVESAILFLY]

More cash - buy more airplanes.
More airplanes - more jobs.
More jobs - More pilots.
More pilots - less grumpy contract pilots.

King Air do pay more than some airlines, but hell are the pilots grumpy and greedy.
:}

[Solid Rust Twotter]

More cash = buy more 4x4s, holiday homes, mistresses and so on.

More airplanes due to passenger demand = more jobs but you won't get paid for them following the route you suggest.

More jobs = more pilots required but conditions being eroded due to twonks prepared to fly for free/pay for hours.

More pilots = flooded market with even more twonks prepared to fly for free/pay for hours thus value of crew reduced, therefore more erosion of T&Cs.

[DIVESAILFLY]

So why not start up a company that actually pays the pilots huge salaries with great benefits flying the brightest and newest equipment on the market? That way you'll have ALL the best pilots in the country working for you and you'll make the millions so that you too can buy a few new cars and holiday homes.:} Or has SAA beaten you to the line.
Or maybe put something in to get something out?:eek:

Then again flying a Twotter is much more fun than flying an A340.