ADF training BFTS, 2FTS and after

[Z_Dice]

Hello all

This is my first post so i don't really know i this type of questions have been posted before i have done some searches but couldn't find it.

I am just about to go to NEOC in mid July and then to BFTS and i am really close to finishing my CPL(about 10 hrs) is there any point on getting it done or i should wait and get it later, because i heard its hard to convert ADF licenses to civilian ones.

And is there any one that are going through BFTS and 2FTS that have any info on what to study prior to going to those places i have heard there is a CD going around for BFTS any info will be greatly appreciated

[BluntM8]

Hey,

Welcome to Proone. I'm not Aussie, so forgive me if I can't answer the specifics, but my advice from my own experience (RAF for a reasonable time now) is that you shouldn't try to second guess the training system. They will teach you what they want you to know at the rate they want you to learn it. If you get the CD then you might end up maxing yourself out prematurely, or teaching yourself the wrong things. Let them teach you at the rate they want to. If you have free time, then use it to wind down, you'll probably need it. Do some phys or something! :)

That said, I'd get your CPL done before you start if I was you, because once you start there won't be the time to get it done, and you may never get around to it. In my experience, I've got a license, but I don't maintain it - too much flying at work!

hope this helps

Blunty

[Aviatophobic]

I was going to ask a very similar question re: EFT in the UK. Hopefully in the not-too-distant future I'll be headed there (depending of course on what the nice people doing the selections say), and was wondering if it would be wise to read up on flying theory or even continue doing lessons up to the point of going solo and maybe beyond? If that's not such a good idea, is there any preparation you can do that might help?

Thanks,

Aviatophobic

[BluntM8]

Maths. Specifically times tables. That might make 0.01% of a difference. All my previous comments apply. Remember, you've got to get through IOT first. You can't be too fit. Practice running 1 1/2 miles, then doing 2 mins of press ups and sit ups right afterwards.

Blunty

[airborne_artist]

The UK military flying training system is 100% geared towards students with no previous experience. The aptitude tests at OASC do not test flying knowledge, they test for a base of abilities in numeracy, reasoning, information handling and co-ordination that have been shown to be needed before EFT commences.

You are far better off spending your time getting fit, and going gliding if you want to get airborne. Powered flying is very expensive in the UK, and really a waste of money if you are hoping to join as a pilot.

[Aviatophobic]

OK, that all makes sense. Since I passed my AIB I've taken to running like a thing possessed simply as a way to deal with the waiting! I just want to make sure that when I get there I give myself the best possible chance of coming out on top.

Thanks (again!) for the quick replies,

Aviatophobic

[havick]

FINISH your CPL... At least you will have some sort of civvie qual as a backup if you dont make it through course..

Otherwise good luck and have fun running around the quarterdeck and EMA (early morning activities) on NEOC

[Arm out the window]

Not bad advice to finish the CPL seeing as you're so close.
A couple of hopefully relevant points, though (see CAOs sect 40 for details):

1. A graduate of an Aust military flying school who's had wings awarded is eligible for a civilian PPL - CASA will just issue it on sighting the relevant paperwork and charging their issuing fees.

2. A graduate of a post-wings operational conversion course is eligible for CPL in the same way.

3. Hours accrued in military flying including instructional, instrument, night etc all count towards civil qualifications and ratings, HOWEVER, you're not eligible for ratings to be issued automatically and there are certain requirements such as flight tests, IREX and so on to be fulfilled when and if you want to convert your military quals to civilian ones.

4. Following on from the previous point, something you may want to think about during your military career is getting civy qualifications such as instructor and instrument ratings not long after you've done the military ones - then you can do renewals fairly easily and keep them ticking along as you go.

These are all small points that can be easily dealt with later, really, and the best advice when you start is to get stuck into the military flying without getting too caught up in other agendas - you do some really great flying at times, and get lots out of it as long as you put in.

If you do have civy quals, though, you may as well review how you're travelling with respect to those every now and then, and it can be handy to have an idea of what hours and experience count towards future ratings and endorsements so when you show CASA your log book after 20 years (they'll probably have been through 6 or 7 name changes by then) you've got some idea that the cryptic "SCT-GF" entry from 2008 really meant "low tactical formation" or whatever.

[oldpinger]

Z- Drop me a PM, got a fair bit of info for you

Oldpinger

[evilroy]

See if you can get hold of the PAARM - Professional ADF Aviators Reference Manual. That's on CD.

There are also some notes, produced by BFTS / 2FTS, on the respective aircraft but wait until you are issued them. They can change, and in general it's not worth trying to do a pre-course study of them.

[havick]

Pre-course study can often go against you, particularly if you are learning checklists.

If someone hands you a book with all the checklists, they will be close to the ones that you will be issued at the start of course, but wont have any ammended items in them. Hence you will always remember what you learned first, so learn the right stuff from the start.

If anything just keep up to date with meteorology, some aircraft systems stuff (ie how your static instruments work, errors of ADF's and VOR's etc etc..) basically all the stuff that you generally braindump.. So when you go through groundschool you can concentrate more on the actual flying aspects than cramming for the groundschool exams that you will generally forget the content minutes after.

My 2 cents worth.

[Z_Dice]

Hey guys Thanks allot for the answers.

I have went to speak to CFI from my school about my CPL and he said that i have another 30 hrs to go until i can do my test because i was on the 150 hrs course and because of the inconsistency in my flying i cant be on that course any more and i now have to do the 200 hrs course. I hope i can complete my CPL between the NEOC and BFTS or just do it some time on the weekends that i can take off.

And guys is there any way to prepare for the 2FTS may be going to do some Arrows in some school in a baron or may be Yk 52 i heard there are ex military pilots that teach aerobatics in QLD and newcastle just to get some stick experience because i heard that most of the guys go bust in 2FTS.

[havick]

Don't bother doing any flying BETWEEN courses... It will just teach you bad habits.

Just worry about getting through the next thing in front of you, which is NEOC. It's the easiest course you will ever do, but it will drive you crazy being treated like a 5yr old.

And then worry about passing BFTS, by prepping the next flight ahead. Don't to get too far ahead of yourself.

[Avtrician]

Z_Dice,

at BFTS and 2FTS, its head down, bum up. Listen to your instructors, and fly how they tell you. If you want to fly your way, you will end up back in civvy street going for your CPL.

I am not a Flying Instructor, but I have been working at Pearce for a long time. I have seen a lot of folk with a PPL, even with Instructor ratings, fail the course.

Good luck in your endeavours.

[L J R]

P A Frozo,

I was in a similar situation some years back when ADF dudes got the CPL eligibilty on Wings form Macchis.

I had a CPL with no aircraft type endorsements on day one. A week later after some twin time, I got a Twin Endorsement - and used the 'Card' to fly miscellaneous twins on a friday afternoon. It was aprox a further 3 years later when I did a civvie instructor course that I had to get the <5700 KG Single Engine annotation (Something you need to fly the Cessna 150 - the bug smasher that the Instructor Endorsement was performed in). So overall I was qualified to fly Civvie Twins for 3 years LONGER than the C-150.

....as well as the 'Retractable, Pressurisation, Constant Speed Prop, and Aeros....' ticks. Even funnier was when I had to show logbook proof of a night Navex to get the civvie NVFR rating. I showed them an entry as an F-111 pilot (Capt) flying at night from Pearce to Amberley with an ILS at the end - which by the was was less scarry than actually Flying NVFR from North Viet Archerfield.

[Z9991]

See if you can get hold of the PAARM - Professional ADF Aviators Reference Manual. That's on CD.

There are also some notes, produced by BFTS / 2FTS, on the respective aircraft but wait until you are issued them. They can change, and in general it's not worth trying to do a pre-course study of them.

Would you know how I could get a hold of a copy?

[just another jocky]

Would you know how I could get a hold of a copy?
You do know the last post before yours was 12 years ago? Just checking.

[Chris Kebab]

...good spot JAJ; just read this whole thread without realising myself. Dying to know what happened to Z_Dice now!