View Full Version : The EU bans Indonesian carriers

B A Lert
29th Jun 2007, 02:32
The EU is banning all Indonesian carriers as from Sunday. I wonder if the Australian Govt will show similar courage by imposing a similar ban in the interests of the Australian travelling public? The following article appeared in todays The Australian:

EU bans Garuda on safety grounds

GARUDA and the other 50 Indonesian airlines will be banned from flying to the European Union from next week after EU air-safety experts deemed them to be unsafe.

The decision comes after four recent crashes in Indonesia, including one in Yogyakarta in March that killed 21 people, including five Australians.

An EU official said Indonesian authorities had failed to provide adequate safety assurances.

The Indonesian Government announced on Monday that Garuda and AdamAir, which lost a Boeing 737-400 passenger jet on New Year's Day, had had their safety ratings upgraded after a three-month government safety audit.

Under European rules, passengers must be informed if an airline is on the list of banned carriers and can demand reimbursement or an alternative carrier for tickets bought in Europe for flights that do not enter EU skies.

"Once more, the EU black list will prove an essential tool ... to prevent unsafe airlines from flying to Europe and to inform passengers travelling worldwide," EU Transport Commissioner Jacques Barrot said.

The European air safety experts deemed the ban to be necessary after finding "serious" failings in maintenance, operating, certification and administrative standards, an EU official said on condition of anonymity.

Indonesian authorities also left repeated European requests for information unanswered until just before the experts met on Wednesday. Even then, they could not answer basic questions such as how many aircraft Indonesian carriers had, another EU official said.

Buster Hyman
29th Jun 2007, 02:36
The EU is banning all Indonesian carriers as from Sunday
Do they get worse from Sunday?:confused:

29th Jun 2007, 02:45

It would have been worse if the Australian Tax office had been making the decision.

They would have made the ban retrospective from last year.......

Condition lever
29th Jun 2007, 04:01
Where's EWL when you need him????

29th Jun 2007, 04:14
Where is EWL??? I was thinking the same thing.

Has he been banned or something?:uhoh: Appears not, last post was 30/4/07.

That is 2 months......very out of character.


29th Jun 2007, 05:39
Do they get worse from Sunday?
It's the time zone difference.

I wonder if the Australian Govt will show similar courage by imposing a similar ban in the interests of the Australian travelling public?

Absolutely not, that would make us "racist". :rolleyes:

29th Jun 2007, 06:47
We wouldn't want to upset our trading partner and neighbour...would we?????

I wonder if they would have the same concerns about us?

Zapatas Blood
29th Jun 2007, 06:51
So Garuda banned after one recent accident but China Airlines not banned after many recent hull losses (last 10 years).

Me thinks its very political. If only the Indo's exported as many computer chips and electronics as the Taiwanese did. Or Koreans.

29th Jun 2007, 07:01
Besides, Guess which airspace Australian carriers have to fly through to get to Europe. Long doglegs around it.

Roller Merlin
29th Jun 2007, 07:23
ABC radio interview this PM advised that none of these airlines, Garuda included, fly to Europe. However this determination is really to advise European travellers against flying on these carriers and to take alternative routes with other carriers if available (eg: to Bali via Singapore not Jakarta). Interesting to see how the OZ government beaurocrats sensitivities will deal with this one!;)

29th Jun 2007, 07:41
Interesting to see how far backwards on the commercial front Garuda has come over the past 15~20 years. Long / medium haul fleet now just 3 B744 and 6 A330 with a few dozen 737s of various marques making up the balance. No more US, NZ or Europe and much reduced service to Aus and near Asia(Bali problem I guess). Website is slow and crappy as well but probably not such a big deal for Indon outbound customers (or maybe it is and that is part of the problem).

29th Jun 2007, 08:58
Zapata, that was the 8th ( i think ) hull loss since they've been operating.
Korean and some of the Chinese have already been threatened with: no more A/C and no more insurance if they did'nt fix their lot ( which, to their credit, they did something about )
It's about time somebody did the same with the Indonesians.

Eastwest Loco
30th Jun 2007, 12:46
Hi Squawk and CL.
I am about, but still recovering from a typical Travel Agent's holiday to Bali.
8 nights Bali and 5 nights Mersey general hospital on return with cellulosis and a flagelate in the blood. Not Balis fault - all mine. A Travel Agents holiday is like a mechanics car - never goes right. Hell of a way to lose 25 kilos.

Flew up and back on GA and they were good as gold. Good straight line stuff I guess but we did have to do one of those scary turny things on the way in to DPS.

As GA had been warned that they were deficient in their procedures,I can only assume that any delay in implimenting protocols has been caused by high ranking officials dodging any implication in the no doubt massive slings of Rupiah or USD's involved in allowing the Airline to avoid the regulations.

It is interesting (and tragic) that the EU also banned TAAG Angolan Airlines from their airspace. TAAG responded by killing at least 6 people in the hull loss of a 732 at M'Banza Congo perhaps confirming EU fears.

Best all

30th Jun 2007, 19:03
Quote "So Garuda banned after one recent accident but China Airlines not banned after many recent hull losses (last 10 years)."

I think you will find that CAL has made many changes to improve safety over the last few years including mandatory CRM, and new maintenance contracts with the airline manufacturers. It is very rare that I fly a CAL aircraft with any DD items outstanding unlike my previous airline (euro low cost carrier). As I understand it the Capt in the indonesian 737 incident was told to go around 3 times by the FO but chose to ignore him. This is the sort of thing happening still at several airlines around the world and unfortunately it takes international pressure to change, or a string of accidents as has happened here.

Zapatas Blood
1st Jul 2007, 01:54

Airlines such as Korean and China Airlines have far worse safety records than Garuda in recent history but they belong to countries of strategic importance to western interests.

1st Jul 2007, 02:16

It might be worth checking out the source documentation at:


This site contains not only the list of currenly sanctioned airlines/operators, but more important, the background on the whole 'banning' process.

Note that the current published list doesn't include Indonesian airlines, though I suspect it is in an annext to legislation, and has yet to be included in the printed list available at the site above.

Note also that airlines have the right to challenge the listing if they believe they are in full compliance with ICAO rules and regulations. I suspect Garuda will be quick to challenge.

Eastwest Loco
1st Jul 2007, 06:08
How Freudian is that???

WELLCONCERNED's valued post had an ad in its border.

Garuda Indonesia google ad pushing airfares and package accommodation.

I do not know if it appears that way to others but it gave me a grin.

best all.


1st Jul 2007, 06:14
China airlines 10 A/C lost, Korean 9,and Garuda 9, whats 1 A/C between friends ?

Not taking into account that both China and Korean would have more of one type than Garudas entire fleet ( eg Korean - 44 x 744 )

Next part of your unsubstantiated argument.............:hmm:

3rd Jul 2007, 01:41
I just put something in the general news forum: EU insurance companies have now announced that your cover is invalid if you use a local Indonesian carrier now. Thus you fly (say) SQ to SIN then CGK and get GA for an onward connection, and any incident is not covered.

Apparantly, travel agents in the EU are asking passengers to sign a declaration tha they will not use Indonesian carriers during their holiday.

Zapatas Blood
4th Jul 2007, 04:26

Hence my comment "in recent history".

Garuda has a better safety record than Korean or China Airlines (especially when including China's subsidiaries) in recent history.

If you include an airlines entire history then American and United would be amongst the worst but they would never be banned from EU airspace.

4th Jul 2007, 13:17
Do any Indonesian carriers actually fly to Europe?

It's easy to ban them if they don't!