EC 175

[eurocopter2]

Has anyone got a picture, drawing etc of the new helicopter
EC-175, Eurocopter has on the drawing board?

[Bomber ARIS]

Behold the jewel in the crown from Marignane........

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v508/Vfrpilotpb/DrwHeli043.jpg

[md902man]

Now that is funny:ok: :ok: :ok:

[eurocopter2]

No I think that would be a new Bell prototype wouldn't it?.
Looking old and and out of date.

[Aser]

That's all I have found , any other source of info about ec-175?

Eurocopter and China to develop heavy-lifter EC 175

by Kim Rosenlof

During a Sunday morning press conference here at Heli-Expo, Eurocopter president Fabrice Bregier quietly announced a pending agreement with China to codevelop a new helicopter. Called the EC 175, the new 22,000-pound-gross-weight helicopter will be positioned between the EC 155 and the Super Puma to compete in the heavy-lift market.

“We are in deep talks for a huge program related to the codevelopment of new helicopters…which we believe would be very good for all of our export prospects,” Bregier said. “I am very confident that we will be able to confirm this agreement in the coming months.”

Although the Eurocopter president could not say more about the new helicopter program, the soft announcement underscores the growing investment that the multinational company is making in the Chinese market. Eurocopter has already licensed a Chinese manufacturer in Harbin to produce the EC 120 Colibri for the Asian market and has secured an order for 48 Chinese-built EC 120s to be used for light helicopter training. In addition, Eurocopter will be opening a subsidiary in China in 2005 to assist in the codevelopment of the EC 175.

“We have great expertise in codevelopment, and in working with the Chinese, who produced Eurocopter products under license 25 years ago,” Bregier said. “So we know each other, and it’s safer for both sides to launch coproduction and codevelopment in a way that shares the costs and the benefits.”

Eurocopter’s 2004 global expansion included Australian successes as well, including the delivery of the first of 12 ARH Tigers to the Australian air force, and the selection of the NH90 as the air force’s successor to the Black Hawk. Eurocopter also won a contract for the NH90 in Oman.

The growing acceptance of Eurocopter as a military helicopter manufacturer is apparent as the dollar value of military orders received by Eurocopter in 2004 exceeded that of civil orders. Of a €3.24 billion (approximately $4.02 billion) order book, military orders accounted for 51 percent, and Bregier estimates that the military share of Eurocopter sales will continue to outstrip the civil market, even as Eurocopter’s share of the civil market continues to grow. In the U.S., Eurocopter enjoyed a 50-percent market share in 2004 with 147 deliveries, up 1 percent from 2003.

To attempt to penetrate the U.S. military market, Eurocopter has partnered with Northrop Grumman as prime contractor to create a version of the NH90 acceptable to the U.S. military.

“We believe that the NH90 is by far the most modern, most militarized helicopter of this category,” said Bregier. “Depending on the end-user’s requirements, and working with Northrop Grumman’s outstanding knowledge, we could manage a very good value for the U.S. Air Force.”

In the meantime, Eurocopter received a contract from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security for up to 33 EC 120s and has already delivered to the U.S. Coast Guard 12 Dauphin re-engining kits manufactured at Eurocopter’s new plant in Mississippi. The USCG’s remaining fleet of 95 Dauphins will be outfitted with the kits within the next two years.

Eurocopter has also applied for FAA certification to manufacture the AStar at the Mississippi plant. The helicopter is scheduled to roll out the first U.S. certified aircraft in July.

[Bomber ARIS]

Called the EC 175, the new 22,000-pound-gross-weight helicopter will be positioned between the EC 155 and the Super Puma to compete in the heavy-lift market.

Wouldn't this make it a direct competitor with, or possibly a successor to, the Super Puma series :confused:

[212man]

If it weighs 22000 lb it won't be called a 175: the 7 refers to the weight category in tons (i.e. it would be 7 tons = 15400 lb approx).

If you're really bored I can tell you what the 1 and the 5 mean!

[widgeon]

isnt 5 the number of engines ? EC135 , EC145 , EC155 , AS355 AS365 etc ( I guess 5 upside down looks like 2) .What are boeing gonna do now they have run out of numbers . Do I win a prize ?.

[Ogsplash]

I wonder if it will look anything like an NH90? Weight class appears about right. Lots of new technology already paid for.

Just a thought.

[212man]

Widgeon,
yes, sort of. Ignore the old AS numbers as that was a different system. With EC designators, the first number is eithe 1 for civuil or 6 for Mil, the second is the weight category and the last digit is 0 for single engine or 5 for a twin. When the weight goes into double figures they add it to the first digit e.g the 12 ton EC-225.

(Bored in LGW waiting for a plane to Marseille!)

[sammy76]

Is there a website to get some hot naked photos and details of this new EC?

[NickLappos]

My guess is that this spins on the statement made by EC about a year ago that there might be a civil version of the NH-90. This was in response to the relative success of the S-92 against the Super Puma, where the new safety features and Part 29 certification made a real dent in customer's minds. I hear that sales of the 225 and the older 332 family have been quite disappointing.

The NH-90 could be the basis of a reasonable 10 ton helo, just under the EC-225, and it would have to be fully certified, giving the opportunity to get it to meet the latest regs, thus leveling the field against the 92.

The cost to develop a brand new set of transmissions and rotors is prohibitive, so the re-use of the NH-90 systems is a neat idea. Although the civil cert of the NH-90 rotors and transmissions is not very cheap, it is probably less than half the cost of starting anew, so the price of the new helo could be kept down.
My guess is that it will have more volume than the 225, and have a close varient of the NH-90's dynamics.

[widgeon]

The work share for the NH90 transmission is with AW , whether it is true or just an urban legend I am not sure , but i was told that AW desisgned the transmission so that any increase in MGW that would make the NH90 a competitor to the EH101 would be difficult and expensive.

[Ian Corrigible]

The S-76/AS365/EC155/Bell 412/AB139 segment gets even more crowded ! :p

Another of the industry's worst-kept secrets, first touted at Heli-Expo in February. I'm not convinced over the civil focus of China's interest, though... :suspect:


China in deal with Eurocopter to develop new helicopter
Agence France Presse 12/5

China on Monday signed a cooperation deal with the European helicopter manufacturer Eurocopter for the development of a new 6-7 tonne civil helicopter.

The deal was signed in Paris during a visit to France by Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao.

The new 16-seater helicopter named the EC175 will go into development in 2006 and production is due to start in 2011, Eurocopter -- a subsidiary of the European consortium EADS -- said in a statement.

Eurocopter and the Chinese company ACIC II will each invest €300m to develop the new helicopter, the statement said.

"Production will be shared on a 50/50 basis and each country will have its own assembly line. Sales forecasts for this latest-generation helicopter call for 800 to be sold worldwide over the next 20 years," it said.

I/C

[widgeon]

I had to surrender my secret decoder ring so this is from memory .
1 means civil version , 7 = 7 tonnes , 5 = even number of engines ( as 0 equals odd number of engines) . DId i get it right ?. So the NH90 if it had been only EC product would be EC595 .

[212man]

Widgeon,
you are on the right track, but not quite.

Yes to 1 = civil, the weight and 5 = 2 engines (and 0 =1 engine.)

However, military a/c are designated 6 (now, they used to be 5 as in the 565). Coupled to that, if the weight is in double figures, as the NH-90 is, the weight is added to the 6 to keep the 3 number ident.

Classic example is the 225/725 family; it's a 12 tonne class a/c

[NickLappos]

Sounds like the old US Navy method of naming helos HSS-1 = Helicopter (H), Anti-sub (S) , Sikorsky (S), 1st model (-1) which was the H-34. The HSS-2 was the SH-3, thank God they dropped the system, else the Sea Hawk would have been the HSS-3.

By the time you decoded the name, you could have bought a book about it.

[alouette]

I think prior to unleashing any new products on the global scene Eurocopter should straighten out their lousy after sales support apart from providing distorted performance figures on some models. I hear rumours that some operator is phasing out EC aircraft because those ships were not able to carry the load as specified...:}

[chuckolamofola]

How many signed up for the head to head competitor to the AW139 (reference R&W Jan., 2006)? Has anyone committed to this aircraft yet or is it only for the Chinese market?
Chuck

[Ian Corrigible]

According to Aviation International News (http://www.ainonline.com/content/news/single-news-page/article/same-class-different-market/?no_cache=1&cHash=4cf8e4a245), "Eurocopter will start taking orders for the EC175 in February 2008 at the Heli-Expo show in Houston, Texas."

I/C

[Aser]

First concept
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_EC175_Concept_lg.jpg
Last concept
http://www.fly-net.org/aeromedia/aw139jap.jpg
:E

[HeliComparator]

I saw the EC175 mockup before it left for the States. It does vaguely resemble the 139 but its bigger - 16 seats (?) in a reasonably spacious cabin. And Joy - more legroom for the pilots than the AS332L / EC225 family! Its also got proper doors... And American engines (which is pretty amazing for the French!)

A reliable source told me not to pay attention to the 3 bladed tail rotor - after all its only a mock-up! Maybe someone broke one so they had to space the remaining 3 out...

Lets hope that having the fuel and baggage at the back does not result in CofG issues a la 139.

HC

[Aser]

Website of the new EC-139 err.. EC-175!

http://www.eurocopter.com/w1/ec175/

:E

[tottigol]

With the Chinese involved I wouldn't be surprised if a little "design borrowing" took place.
Power plants are the same as the 139's, so there's only so much you can squeeze out of performance.
Put more weight on those donkies and you are going to end up with just a bigger and heavier underpowered 155.
Let's not forget that the 139 is certified for 15 passengers away from the land of "Supersize Me".

[Brilliant Stuff]

IMHO in the pictures I have seen I find the EC-175 rather an ugly duckling.

[maxvne]

with a base price of $8 mill dollars im not suprised they sold 100 already

[Doors Off]

:{:{:{Nooo, Eurocopter, where has your beautiful aesthetic design team gone? It looks like an Mi-2 Hoplite that has popped over to Thailand for some cheap plastic surgery. :{:{

[tottigol]

Yet another Renault from France just like their Airbus products, this one made worse by the Chink participation.

[zalt]

More powerful (Canadian!) engines than the AB139 and far larger and capable machine.

Always nice to see we all live in the global village: Isn't part of the S92 made in China by the Jingdezhen Helicopter Group, with more in Taiwan, Spain etc??

http://www.verticalmag.com/control/news/templates/?a=6880&z=6

[tottigol]

Zalt, no the donkeys are the same as the AW139 (P&WC PT6s) and they have the same -67E number.
The only difference there may be a full time DEC rather than the AW139 EEC.
So I am figuring roughly the same specific fuel burn; they also carry up to 530 gallons fuel.
This EC-175 got nothing to do with the S-92, but everything to do with ch....., I mean inexpensive production costs.

[Aser]

Power plants are the same as the 139's, so there's only so much you can squeeze out of performance.
Put more weight on those donkies and you are going to end up with just a bigger and heavier underpowered 155.
Let's not forget that the 139 is certified for 15 passengers away from the land of "Supersize Me".

I don't think the 175 will be underpowered, I hope they are going to start from 7.000MGW like the 139 will be this summer or later, there is power to add a couple of pax or more fuel, as some people have said in this forum we can reduce the OEI performances for a few seconds.

The 15 pax. option in the 139 isn't very comfortable, so it's really nice a bigger cabin, if they do it right the 175 I'm sure will be another winner.

Regards
Aser

[Ian Corrigible]

Zalt, no the donkeys are the same as the AW139 (P&WC PT6s) and they have the same -67E number. The only difference there may be a full time DEC rather than the AW139 EEC.
Not true, the -67E offers a useful power advantage over the -67C at all ratings.

I/C

[tottigol]

OK, I'll go back in my corner for a while:*

[Ian Corrigible]

Hey, don't leave just yet! :E

Besides, in addition to the Renault 5, they did also give us half of Concorde. And some nice plonk. And Sophie Marceau, Eva Green, Emmanuelle Beart, Brigitte Bardot and Alizee. (Sorry, I seem to have wandered off-subject... :E )

I/C

[David Stepanek]

HC:
16 seats yes, nice cabin if it stays that size, uses a small aisle for the rear row to exit. Baggage door is high but probably manageable. Engines, well American parent, but Canadian built, they speak French there too!

My real reason for the post was your comment on three bladed tail rotor. Do you have a concern? I though it was an interesting (design/concept) mockup. The blades have a quite a large cord and I would imagine three blades would be easier to balance or have less vibratory loads. And hopefully less, dare I say tail cracking issues. Would three produce less noise too?

I too have concerns on CG. Big engines, big tail, big baggage compartment and of course all the new avionics up front will be light.

And we too placed an order 10 +10.

[206Fan]

Didn't know ERA got a 225, looks swell in the paint and i like that 1H's glass panel, nice, cheers for sharing!

Heli-Expo: Eurocopter books commitments for 111 EC175s By Graham Warwick ([email protected])
http://adserver.adtech.de/adserv%7C3.0%7C289%7C1061324%7C0%7C277%7CADTECH;loc=300;key= key1+key2+key3+key4;grp=%5Bgroup%5D (http://adserver.adtech.de/adlink%7C3.0%7C289%7C1061324%7C0%7C277%7CADTECH;loc=300;key= key1+key2+key3+key4;grp=%5Bgroup%5D)

Eurocopter has left Heli-Expo in Houston, Texas with letters of intent for 111 of its new EC175s (http://www.eurocopter.com/w1/ec175/), having opened the show by unveiling a full-scale mock-up of the 7t-class, 16-passenger helicopter.
The European manufacturer says 13 different customers signed letters of intent to buy the EC175 during the three days of the show. These included launch customers Bristow Group and VIH Aiation of Canada, both oil and gas operators.
Other commitments came from the UK's Bond, Denmark's Dancopter, France's Heli-Union, Era and Halvorson Group of the USA, India's Global Vectra, New Zealand's HNZ, Belgium's NHV and Pegaso of Mexico.
http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getAsset.aspx?ItemID=21687
© Eurocopter

The Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6C-67E-powered EC175 is being developed jointly with China's Harbin Aviation Industry Group (http://www.avichina.net/newEbiz1/EbizPortalFG/portal/html/ProgramShow.html?ProgramShow_ProgramID=c373e9069a92ad048fee8 fe2656ff061). First flight is scheduled for 2009, with European certification expected in 2011.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPPZfqTDDF0

[David Stepanek]

HC,
You are right, but we Americans like to think we are the only Americans, when the truth is the term does encompass our continental friends both North and South.

Interesting comments on the tail rotor, I remember someone mentioning to me while I was at Sikorsky that they could think of no helicopter that went to production with the same tail rotor and/or tail stabilizer/configuration that was original to the design concept.

Cheers,
Dave

[maxvne]

Mac's in the UK are saying $10 million dollars for this heli eventhough they have been launched for $8 Million, does anyone have a contact company in the US where one may be able to order this heli

[widgeon]

EC have always had Euro pricing and USD pricing for the longest time it was cheaper to buy in Europe , with the sagging dollar the pendulum has swung the other way. If you want to fly under N reg in UK you may be OK to buy in USA and fly in Uk ( or other Easa country ) . If you want to transfer to UK register you may find EC less than co operative. But if the diff is 2 mill for sure is is worth looking into. Plus of course the ones for the US market will have reverse main rotor direction :rolleyes:

[turboshaft]

Would McAlpine really price in dollars? Sounds like a fishing expedition to me.

[maxvne]

Yes they have and will give a price in Dollars but in no way will they match the price thats given in the US.
No fishing expedition here

[turboshaft]

So who was the source of your US 'base price'? No disrespect intended, but I think someone's screwing with you (either EC or Philly). No way would they price that bird at 8 mil base.

[maxvne]

It came from EC I couldnt believe it either and thats why we contacted Mac's in UK for the real price. I will keep you posted on what the outcome is and how much we end up paying as we are looking for a VIP fit out.

[chopper2004]

More of my pics

Picture #1 (http://photo.ringo.com/255/255745509O811543922.jpg)

Picture #2 (http://photo.ringo.com/255/255745630O937263565.jpg)

Picture #3 (http://photo.ringo.com/255/255745563O743010325.jpg)

Picture #4 (http://photo.ringo.com/255/255746384O299139738.jpg)

Picture #5 (http://photo.ringo.com/255/255746458O668864071.jpg)

[Capt Hollywood]

A few of mine, apologies for the delay in posting them.

EC175
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n197/danodwyer/2008%20Heli%20Expo/21.jpg

[skadi]

The airframe of the first prototype is beeing delivered from China to Marignane/France for completion. First flight is planned for the end of 2009.

http://www.eads.com/web/pressdbdata/de/1024/content/OF00000040950509/2/87/42344872.jpg

skadi

[gwelo shamwari]

anyone heard anything more on the expected EC175????

[GoodGrief]

I hope they are going to start from 7.000MGW

If EC sticks to their philosophy the max weight you can expect from an EC175 wil be 6999kg.

The second digit gives you max t/off below x metric tons.

EC120=1800kg
EC130=2800kg
EC135=2910kg
EC155=4920kg

[Ian Corrigible]

From AIN (http://www.ainonline.com/news/single-news-page/article/eurocopter-ec-175-quietly-makes-first-flight/)

Eurocopter EC 175 Quietly Makes First Flight
December 8, 2009

The Eurocopter EC 175 medium twin helicopter made its first flight on Friday at the company’s headquarters in Marignane, France, according to a source close to Eurocopter. Another source–a Eurocopter official–told AIN that the first flight was the culmination of almost one month of ground tests.

The manufacturer will stage an official “maiden flight” on Thursday next week. The program milestone is thus taking place on schedule, as it had been planned for “late in 2009” since the middle of last year.

Eurocopter recently disclosed the EC 175’s radius of action offshore–270 nm at ISA+20–and a top cruise speed of about 135 knots. The company also announced the main gearbox’s capability to fly for 30 minutes after total loss of oil.

Targeted primarily at the offshore oil market, the EC 175 offers 16 passenger seats and competes with the AgustaWestland AW139. The Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6C-67E-powered rotorcraft is a 50-50 joint program with China’s Avicopter, where it is known as the Z15.

EASA certification is pegged for 2011.
I/C

[Brian Abraham]

From Aviation International News

The Eurocopter EC 175 medium twin helicopter made its first flight on Friday at the company’s headquarters in Marignane, France, according to a source close to Eurocopter. Another source–a Eurocopter official–told AIN that the first flight was the culmination of almost one month of ground tests. The manufacturer will stage an official “maiden flight” on Thursday next week. The program milestone is thus taking place on schedule, as it had been planned for “late in 2009” since the middle of last year. Eurocopter recently disclosed the EC 175’s radius of action offshore–270 nm at ISA+20–and a top cruise speed of about 135 knots. The company also announced the main gearbox’s capability to fly for 30 minutes after total loss of oil. Targeted primarily at the offshore oil market, the EC 175 offers 16 passenger seats and competes with the AgustaWestland AW139. The Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6C-67E-powered rotorcraft is a 50-50 joint program with China’s Avicopter, where it is known as the Z15. EASA certification is pegged for 2011.

[skadi]

Today was the "official" first flight and presentation:

Eurocopter, an EADS company (http://www.eurocopter.com/site/en/press/Eurocopter-celebrates-the-maiden-flight-of-its-new-EC175-helicopter_648.html)

Eurocopter stellt EC175 vor - dynamische Flugvorführung in Marignane - FLUG REVUE (http://www.flugrevue.de/de/zivilluftfahrt/fluggeraete/eurocopter-stellt-ec175-vor-update-1115-uhr.16408.htm)

Maidenflight was on Dec. 4th, today was already flight no. 7

skadi

[photex]

I guess the design team took the day off. That has to be one of the ugliest helicotpers I've seen in a while.

[ppng]

Go to the Eurocopter website for close-up footage of the 175 performing for the cameras today.

And some other Eurocopter stuff (anyone looped an S-92 on camera Nick?)

The 175 has Pratt & Whitney engines, tail rotor from the EC665 Tiger, autopilot from the 225, and will carry 16 pax. (and women don't like the way it looks). That's all I know, except it is so f-ing quiet in the air that you would not even know it was there unless someone pointed it out.

[Ian Corrigible]

(Somewhere in Marignane, circa 2008)

"Okay gents: so how are we going to avoid the engine bay heating problems that the other guy's been having?"

"Well, I have this nozzle I took from an old Harrier jump jet..."

"That'll do nicely lad, get welding."

:E

I/C

[212man]

I'm glad to see it's got a decent tail rotor, and not the spindly thing shown on the mockup!

[skadi]

I'm glad to see it's got a decent tail rotor, and not the spindly thing shown on the mockup!

...and they put it on the other side!

Ok, it wouldnt win a beauty contest, but i think, the view out of the cockpit seems to be better than in other machines of this class.

skadi

[GoodGrief]

Looks a bit like an MI-2, doesn't it...?

[HeliComparator]

There's some video of the "Official" first flight on EC's website at
Eurocopter Event (http://www.eurocopter.com/webtv/)

Watch out for the EC225 doing a torque turn at minute 53. Last time I did that with passengers, they complained I had spilt their G&Ts

HC

[skadi]

And they even looped the 225, very impressive.

skadi

[HeliComparator]

So they did, I hadn't got that far! Now all we need is a posting of an S92 looping video (best to check your feet first!)

HC

[Brilliant Stuff]

Very impressive that Loop.:ok:

The 135 vid is also good IMHO, but I gave up after that since the streaming is so jerky.

[9Aplus]

streaming is so jerky
on East side stream is 100% OK :confused:

[libecciu]

Ec175 Celebration Airshow - VidoEmo - Emotional Video Unity (http://www.vidoemo.com/yvideo.php?i=eHdFd2N3cWuRpRXhGaG8&ec175-celebration-airshow) :ok::ok:

[heli1]

Not taking away the credit to Alain de Bianca for an impressive showing of the EC175 after only 5 flight hours....up to 140kt etc but Jacque Laar's last flight as a Eurocopter test pilot in the EC225 almost stole the show.You had to be there to see the crowd's reaction.They loved it .
However this loop was outside the flight envelope and ,but for his imminent retirement at the end of December ,one suspects would have been a sacking offence !!

[JohnDixson]

Anyone know what the cant angle is?

Thanks,
John Dixson

[heli1]

Cant angle??..looked about 15-20 degrees to me .

[Ian Corrigible]

From the photos it looks to be about 17°, a few degrees less than the Hawk.

I/C

[Sikorsky]

And some other Eurocopter stuff (anyone looped an S-92 on camera Nick?)

In 1968 a Sikorsky testpilot rolled and looped a CH-53A, do they need to prove it again ?

VC2E8RJE3Jo

[heli1]

Very true Sikorsky ,but not at a public airport in front of spectators and at relatively low level.....

[Aser]

Fantastic display but,
Isn't the 225 a customer aircraft (sonair) ?
What about the FM limits in the 225?

:confused:

Regards
Aser

[HeliComparator]

Aser
There are no specific bank angle, pitch attitude or g limits in the EC225 Flight Manual, however there is a para in Section 2 (limitations section) that says:

4. Restrictions:

The following are prohibited:

- Acrobatic flying


So, you are not allowed to do handstands, juggle 3 balls in the air or swing on a trapeze whilst flying, but there is no mention of not doing loops.

Just as well it didn't say:

- Aerobatic flying

otherwise he would have been very naughty...

Sikorsky - since the S92 is technologically very similar to a 1968 CH53 A then no, as you say no point in doing it again.

HC

[helirider]

Some pictures...
http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab151/helirider_photos/EC175%20flight%20show%2017%20Dec2009/01EC175.jpg

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab151/helirider_photos/EC175%20flight%20show%2017%20Dec2009/03EC175.jpg

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab151/helirider_photos/EC175%20flight%20show%2017%20Dec2009/04EC175.jpg

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab151/helirider_photos/EC175%20flight%20show%2017%20Dec2009/09EC175.jpg

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab151/helirider_photos/EC175%20flight%20show%2017%20Dec2009/10EC175.jpg

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab151/helirider_photos/EC175%20flight%20show%2017%20Dec2009/07EC175.jpg

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab151/helirider_photos/EC175%20flight%20show%2017%20Dec2009/08EC175.jpg

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab151/helirider_photos/EC175%20flight%20show%2017%20Dec2009/06EC175.jpg

[helirider]

One more...:)
http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab151/helirider_photos/EC175%20flight%20show%2017%20Dec2009/05EC175.jpg

[Ground flight]

Check this out :)


http://www.eurocopter.com/site/docs_wsw/RUB_1064/Directions-for-use.pdf

[Phoinix]

When we took TR training for 135 we asked our ground training instructor, what it the EC definition of aerobatic maneuver (also a limitation for 135, like 225). He replyed; a maneuver not more than 90° of anything (meaning pitch and bank).

[victor papa]

It does not seem that Eurocopter is too preturbed with rolls and loops-they pretty much seem to have done it at airshows and in public with most of their types. If you go to dailymotion.com and search ec 130 1 you will see the test pilot doing it effortlessly and repeatedly in the 130 of all things:D:ok:

[Peter PanPan]

From Rotorpad:

Eurocopter confirms contract with Héli-Union for 4 EC175 helicopters


Friday, 24 June 2011 15:12
Source: Eurocopter 0 Comments (http://www.rotorpad.com/offshore/eurocopter-confirms-contract-with-heli-union-for-4-ec175-helicopters.html#comments)
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http://www.rotorpad.com/images/stories/pr_photos/2011_06/euro_106_thumb_medium350_232.jpg (http://www.rotorpad.com/images/stories/pr_photos/2011_06/euro_106.jpg)Héli-Union is extending its long-standing relationship with Eurocopter by ordering four EC175 for offshore oil and gas missions, continuing this worldwide helicopter operator’s tradition in pioneering the introduction of highly capable new-generation rotary-wing aircraft.
The contract signature was officially announced today during Héli-Union’s 50-year anniversary celebration, which was held at its Toussus-le-Noble maintenance center near Paris, France, and included a fly-over of Eurocopter’s no. 1 EC175 prototype.
“The EC175 order builds on a highly successful five-decade relationship with a very unique and important customer, and Eurocopter looks forward to continuing our partnership as Héli-Union expands its oil and gas operations into new regions of the world,” said Eurocopter President & CEO Lutz Bertling. “As with many of Eurocopter’s other products, Héli-Union provided valuable input during the EC175’s development, and we will continue to benefit from its expertise once the helicopter is in service.”
With deliveries of these new seven ton-class helicopters to Héli-Union beginning in 2013, the EC175 will introduce a new level of operational flexibility and comfort for international offshore oil and gas transportation services, as well being available for search & rescue missions.
“The EC175 will bring enhanced operational capabilities and unmatched passenger comfort for Héli-Union’s oil and gas operations,” explained Héli-Union Chairman & CEO Jean-Christophe Schmitt. “Eurocopter has been a key partner in our company’s success during the past 50 years, and our new contract marks an important step in the next chapter of our operations.”
Héli-Union currently operates a young fleet of some 30 helicopters, which includes Eurocopter,AS350, EC145, AS365 and AS332. The 18 AS365s in its inventory make Héli-Union the world’s second largest civilian operator of this type, and the company is preparing for the introduction of an AS365 N3/N3+ flight simulator at its training center in Angoulême, France, as well as the introduction of two EC225s in its fleet.
During the past 50 years, Héli-Union has operated almost all of Eurocopter’s product line, and was among the first customers to introduce the SA330 Puma in the civil version, the SA313 Alouette II, the SA315 Lama and the SA360/SA365 Dauphin. In addition, Héli-Union has worked closely with Eurocopter in enhancing the overall and operational capabilities of Eurocopter’s products thanks to the company’s operational experience in a full range of challenging environments.


Follow Eurocopter’s presence at the 2011 Paris Air Show with regular updates on the company’s special events website: http://events.eurocopter.com (http://events.eurocopter.com/).
For exclusive content and latest news, download Eurocopter’s iPad & iPhone apps on: www.eurocopter.com/apps (http://www.eurocopter.com/apps).

About EC175
Eurocopter’s twin-engine EC175, made with customers (including Héli-Union), for customers, appears to be the perfect 16-passenger helicopter for oil and gas operations. It provides a mix of proven and advanced technologies for excellent performance and reliability in a full range of missions, with a high level of comfort.
About Eurocopter Malaysia (www.eurocopter.com.my (http://www.eurocopter.com.my/))
Eurocopter Malaysia was incorporated in 2002, and is the only helicopter manufacturer with a comprehensive network of maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) service centers in Malaysia. With a workforce of 130 employees and presence in Subang, Miri and Kerteh, it provides a broad spectrum of services, ranging from scheduled and unscheduled maintenance, aircraft modification (retrofit, painting, interior refurbishment and customization), as well logistics support (spare parts, repairs and overhaul).
Eurocopter Malaysia backs its support offer with its inventory, 24-hours’ service, highly skilled workers and efficient logistic services. Eurocopter Malaysia has in its stable some 20 small and medium enterprises. The company is also an authorized training centre which provides a range of services for customers, from standard training to customized courses.
About Eurocopter (www.eurocopter.com (http://www.eurocopter.com/))
Established in 1992, the Franco-German-Spanish Eurocopter Group is a division of EADS, a world leader in aerospace, defense and related services. The Eurocopter Group employs approximately 17,500 people. In 2010, Eurocopter confirmed its position as the world’s number one helicopter manufacturer in the civil and parapublic market with a turnover of 4.8 billion Euros, orders for 346 new helicopters and a 49 percent market share in the civil and parapublic sectors. Overall, the Group’s helicopters account for 33 percent of the total worldwide civil and parapublic fleet. Eurocopter’s strong worldwide presence is ensured by its 30 subsidiaries and participations on five continents, along with a dense network of distributors, certified agents and maintenance centers. There are currently 11,200 Eurocopter helicopters in service and some 2,900 customers in 147 countries. Eurocopter offers the largest civil and military helicopter range in the world.

[Aser]

SAR,
look at the radar, now Crab can replace his Sea King... ;)
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/270619_10150244528303739_556613738_7232093_7770061_n.jpg

Regards
Aser

[Epiphany]

At last, just what we have been waiting for - a larger AW139 with no Italians.

[heli1]

Aahh but the new AW189 will give the EC175 a run for its money!

[Epiphany]

I'll still take the EC175 and no Italians.

[eurobigchopper]

You should find it on Helicopter EC120, civil helicopter, colibri helicopter - Eurocopter, an EADS company (http://www.eurocopter.com/site/en/ref/Overview_56.html)

[tottigol]

Everyone has his limitations, I'd say.:cool:

[dascanio]

Tottigol,
I agree with you!

And I hope that the ones that bought the 540 AW139s sold until now, think the same...

[76ranger]

Has anyone seen how the cowlings open on the 175? Looks like 2 pieces, fwd and aft. I am guessing they slide, but I am wondering how the fwd one can slide if an upper WSPS is installed. Just something I wondered when looking at some pics.

[squib66]

Some more performance data is emerging.

In releasing EC175 enhanced performance specifications today, Eurocopter announced a baseline payload/radius-of-action capacity with 16 passengers at 135 nautical miles when configured for offshore oil and gas missions, out-performing any medium-lift helicopter on the market in terms of competitiveness. This represents a 30 percent performance increase compared with the initial performance baseline. For longer-range missions, EC175 can transport 12 passengers to a radius of action of 190 nautical miles.

In addition, Eurocopter has launched the development of a 18 passengers configuration option, aiming at carrying those 18 passengers to a radius-of-action of 100 nautical miles.

On he programme generally

The EC175 program is progressing well, with first deliveries targeted in late 2012 following certification in the offshore mission configuration with the enhanced performance.

Ongoing testing continues to validate the EC175’s rugged design, including cold and hot weather trials, bird strike tests, and gearbox operation for 30 minutes after loss of oil.

Two EC175 prototypes have logged more than 270 flight hours to date and industrial activity is continuing – with the first two serial aircraft being assembled at the Eurocopter’s Marignane facility in France.

EC175 exceeds operational targets with 30% performance increase | Helihub - the Helicopter Industry Data Source (http://www.helihub.com/2012/01/06/ec175-exceeds-operational-targets-with-30-performance-increase/)

[lowfat]

If the sales blurb is like the other eurocopters I will wait and see what it will actually do.... If you know what I mean?

[squib66]

How cynical!

I was rather hoping one or two PPRUNEsters are currently 'comparing' the type to its spec and able to comment;)

[Variable Load]

I think lowfat's comment is based on history and he is expressing scepticism.

Cynicism is simply too easy when discussing ECF :E

[Colibri49]

Being slow-witted, I can't quite see the point of the EC175 when compared against the EC225. I mean, 100 NM radius with 18 pax, presumably returning to base with 45 mins fuel remaining. Really....and?

With the same 45 mins fuel remaining, the EC225 routinely carries 19 pax, and has radius of action of 190 NM. (Arrogant yawn).

Wherever the EC175 might be intended to operate, it doesn't seem to fit a niche operating to Northern North Sea decks from Aberdeen. Even the S92 can't hold a candle to the EC225 when comparing load carried versus range versus fuel consumption.

Climb the EC225 to FL80, it does that smoothly and easily, reduce the lever to a division below MCP on the FLI to maintain the average 145 kt TAS, the fuel consumption drops to below 590 kg/hr, increasing the radius of action to 210 NM. An easy 10% gain!

And so for specific fuel consumption per passenger and effective range, the EC225 is the clear leader. I rest my case M'Lud. (Smug smile).

[EESDL]

Is there an Oriental version of the 225? If the answer is 'no' then I can only assume that is why the 175 has been conceived - massive market and massive opportunities?

[switch_on_lofty]

What is an Oriental Version? One that is produced on the Orient or one with special features? If so what would those special features be?

[bigglesbutler]

#5 and a #12 maybe?

Sorry couldn't resist

Si

[HeliComparator]

Colibri, I think the point is that the 175 is a lot cheaper to buy and operate, so if you don't have 19 pax, and your installation is not that far offshore, it might be a better option.

[HeliHenri]

Hello,
You're right HeliComparator, there's a market for this class of aircraft.
that's the reason for exemple, why Bristow has signed for 6 AW189 (16 seats as standard with the option for a high density 18 seat layout or an ultra long range 12 seat configuration).

[Colibri49]

Looking at the cabin in the EC175, it would seem that if they're going to offer an 18 seat option, the pax would all have to be 5'6" Orientals weighing 140 lbs (10 stone) max, and their consequent baggage allowance would be a shaving bag plus a spare pair of underpants.

To be cheaper to buy and operate, I guess those costs pertaining to the EC225 would have to be factored by something like .66 for the EC175. But I wonder whether Eurocopter could afford to offer them for that.

Does anyone know what the asking price is?

[EESDL]

Colibri49 - I think you've found the 'Oriental' version.
If China had been involved with 225 production then we would probably not be seeing the 175? Would have brought the purchase price down/operating costs but it is a large chopper IMHO and I have not done the market research!
If I've learnt one thing in rotary world - that must be never to believe blurb of PR department!!
Wish AW all the best in its battle with EC to produce the 'default' medium lift chopper as competition can only be good news for operators and passengers alike.

[chcoffshore]

I see NHV just placed a order for 10 at the Expo!

[FreeLanderII]

can any of you guys give a feedback on the latest on the 175:)

[Shell Management]

The Eurocopter EC175 is making progress toward certification. :ok:

Transport Canada has already certified Pratt & Whitney Canada’s 1,775-shp PT6C-67E turboshaft.

EC has now revealed the precise mtow for the helicopter: 16,535 pounds.

The radius of action, for two pilots and up to 16 passengers, is given as 135 nm (oil and gas configuration, JAR OPS 3, fuel reserves 30 minutes plus 10-percent contingency fuel, ISA conditions).

[Dry wretched thunder]

Hi,

just looking for any info thats on offer other than a company website. Our operation is looking at going onto EC 175s next year, can you offer any info you may have on them, good or bad. What similarites do they share with its brothers and sisters. Any expierience with them etc etc

thanks

[HeliComparator]

AFAIK the first aircraft has yet to be delivered, so it would seem unlikely that anyone has any operational experience of them yet.

[Pittsextra]

saying Eurocopter has finger trouble is controversial!!

[Check Ball]

Can't keep from asking myself, who might fancy a helicopter designed, build, tested and certificated by french and chinese. Would the same guy buying such a helicopter also buy a french-chinese car for his wife and children?

[Pittsextra]

you mean a bit like fitting Chinese steering components to a London Taxi....

[HeliHenri]

CheckBall Can't keep from asking myself, who might fancy a helicopter designed, build, tested and certificated by french and chinese

Maybe the same who fly the EC120 (Jointly designed, developed and assembled by EC,CATIC and Harbin). :rolleyes:

And by the way, you should know that EC is not French but German, French and Spanish so you're free to insult the French if you like it, but please, don't use the name of EC for that, except if you hate the German and Spanish too. :ugh:
.

[Check Ball]

Well Henry,
Correct me if I am wrong, but the German side of Eurocopter is called ECD and the spanish part is nothing more than a Subsidiary, So EC could very well be confined to the gallic part of that company.
As opposed to your reply, my posting was not meant as a personal insult, rather as a comment on the outstanding quality of craftsmanship these two great nations are known for. Also I believe that all developments are done in Marignanne, France, and not in Spain or Germany.
Here is something to think about for you: Critique exercised to a certain manufacturer, lets say a french one, does not necessarily mean that this critique covers the whole nation and every individual of that nation.

[HeliHenri]

Well Check Ball, you seem to be very precise so yes, you're wrong : the spanish part is not "nothing more than a subsidiary", it's a full part of EC called Eurocopter España (thank's for them).

Sorry, I miss understood your point : just a critique exercised to a certain helicopter manufacturer isn't it ? So why did you speak about car manufacturers in your first post and "great" nations in your second ?...:ugh:
Anyway, happy that you're only after the French and Chinese (mind, you don't know them well…), the German and Spanish don't deserve it.

And if the 120 is not amazing, it's quite a good aircraft. God, how is this possible ?!!! :rolleyes:

Return to the topic : about the 175, it flies, that's all we can say at the present time.
.

[Ian Corrigible]

just looking for any info thats on offer other than a company website. Our operation is looking at going onto EC 175s next year, can you offer any info you may have on them, good or bad. What similarites do they share with its brothers and sisters. Any expierience with them etc etc
As HeliComparator says, none delivered yet. Your operation might want to touch base with the launch (http://www.eurocopter.com/w1/jrotor/76/ec175.html) customers (http://www.eurocopter.com/w1/jrotor/76/ec175%20(2).html), most of whom have been involved with the program through the CAT process and will therefore have first-hand knowledge of the type.

Regarding commonality with other EC types, as posted previously (http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/281966-ec-175-a-3.html#post5386274) the 4-axis AFCS is common with that on the EC225 and the tail rotor is reportedly derived from that on the Tiger. The 'Helionix' avionics suite will also be common with that on the EC145 T2 and other unspecified future models.

I/C

[Brian Abraham]

Pilot report should you be interested.

http://www.ainonline.com/sites/ainonline.com/files/pdf/pg-36-37-38-39_d1_v5.pdf

[Grenville Fortescue]

Eurocopter showcases EC175 helicopter's executive and VIP versions - Eurocopter showcases EC175 helicopter's executive and VIP versions | The Economic Times (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/slideshows/spending-lifestyle/eurocopter-showcases-ec175-helicopters-executive-and-vip-versions/slideshow/20244984.cms)

[Outwest]

The Eurocopter EC175 is making progress toward certification.

Transport Canada has already certified Pratt & Whitney Canada’s 1,775-shp PT6C-67E turboshaft.

EC has now revealed the precise mtow for the helicopter: 16,535 pounds.

The radius of action, for two pilots and up to 16 passengers, is given as 135 nm (oil and gas configuration, JAR OPS 3, fuel reserves 30 minutes plus 10-percent contingency fuel, ISA conditions).

Interesting to note that PW has 30 sec (1991 hp) and 2 min (1771 hp) OEI limits for -67E as opposed to just the 2.5 min (1632 hp) limit for the -67C (AW139)

I wonder what the MGB OEI limits will be, will they be able to use the full 1991 hp?

Any guess what the fuel burn will be in cruise? Would 450 kgs be a reasonable guess? If so that should give about 4 hrs fuel. I understand that the 189 is undergoing a fairly major design modification as at present it only has about 3 hrs fuel.

[chopper2004]

At Heli Expo in Vegas a few months back see the Bristow machine :)

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/longranger/IMG_8773_zpsd1ea6fa1.jpg

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/longranger/IMG_8875_zpsba684f79.jpg

Cheers

[heli1]

Chopper ..not necessarily. This machine is being retained by Eurocopter for add on certification testing for some time to come. It may be a wolf in Bristow clothing!

[Anthony Supplebottom]

Looks like the Airbus AH175 ;) is to complete its flight testing by the end of the month.

Flight Global (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/ec175-nears-end-of-testing-milestone-390476/)

[Sanus]

Does anyone know if the sliding door can be jettiisoned? From the pictures I have seen if it is open it appears to neatly block the rear row escape windows. This follows on from the discussion on the recent L2 ditching and survivability/escapement through sliding doors.

I'm sure EC (AH!) have thought this through - at least I hope so.

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

SANUS

I will get some information for you it's just not to hand right now. I flew the machine in the picture in Louisiana. It's a stunning helicopter and the windows are huge. Visibility from any seat is like sitting in the pope mobile.

It's DAFSC is based on EC225 but with significant further features like co-ordinated Groundspeed turns and Flight Path Angle approaches.

Absolutely no vibration. Stacks of power. Multilayer display technology. No switches, gauges or lights in the O/H panel and no quadrant.

One Bristow's Training Captain called it a "Magic Flying Carpet"

[Ian Corrigible]

Does anyone know if the sliding door can be jettiisoned?
Yes.

Airbus AH175
No; existing product designations (AS350, EC175, etc.) will be retained after January 2014. Future designation methodology (e.g. for X4, X6, etc.) tba.

I/C

[PhlyingGuy]

It'll be interesting to see how popular the EC175 is once it's (finally) certified. I've heard of a lot more orders and interest for AW189s than I have of 175s.

[terminus mos]

The certification process of the EC175 has been successfully completed. On January 27, 2014, the European Aviation Safety Agency’s (EASA) Internal Safety Committee formally approved the recommendation of the EC175 Project Certification Team to grant the EC175 with EASA type certification.EASA will officially issue the type certificate in the coming days.



Interesting that the 1st production EC175 is no longer in Bristow colours with the red having been removed. Does this mean that Bristow is no longer the launch customer?

[Ian Corrigible]

More likely to do with Eurocop...Airbus Helicopters not wanting to upset other customers/prospects during the type's recent Asian tour.

Though interestingly Flight (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/new-identity-new-fortunes-for-company-formerly-known-as-395319/) reports that UTair, NHV and Heli-Union will be the first to get their aircraft, possibly due to follow-on O&G certification.

I/C

[helicopterray]

I heard today that Bristow is no longer the launch customer. They're going with Agustas.

[LambdaF]

Hi,

just looking for any info thats on offer other than a company website. Our operation is looking at going onto EC 175s next year, can you offer any info you may have on them, good or bad. What similarites do they share with its brothers and sisters. Any expierience with them etc etc

thanks


Several prospective customers have already flown the prototypes to get a feel. I think the pilots were even interviewed afterwards. Definitely during last year's demo tour. Perhaps even before.

[Phil chopper]

Hello Everybody,

Did you know EC175 just got its EASA certification ???

I just discover it

http://easa.europa.eu/certification/type-certificates/docs/rotorcraft/EASA-TCDS-R.150_EC175%20-01-05022014.pdf

For AW189, it was clearly mentioned in the media, but not for EC175 ...!!

[HeliComparator]

EC175 was in Aberdeen today and those nice chaps at AH gave me a shot in it. Very nice to fly and quite a few interesting ideas on the MMI. Seems a pity that there is not that much interest from the big 3 operators.

[obnoxio f*ckwit]

I thought it was not proving a hit with the UK offshore operators because it is too big for much of the SNS, and suffers in range/payload for the NNS.

[212man]

HC, I flew it last month, and was also impressed by some of the new features.

I had heard it has the same gearbox as the EC225?
I don't think that's true....

[PhlyingGuy]

They're having to increase their MTOW already because the AW189 is eating it's lunch and the Bell 525 is right on it's heels.

Airbus missed the target on this one: Airbus Helicopters Increasing EC175 Mtow by 660 Pounds | Aviation International News (http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ainalerts/2014-05-20/airbus-helicopters-increasing-ec175-mtow-660-pounds)

[Lonewolf_50]

PG, as far as I can tell, 525 has not flown yet, EC 175 first flew in 2009.

How does that put pressure on the 175?

AW 189 first production model flew in October 2013, and it looks like the order book is getting entries ... I can see how that may give the EC 175 team pause.

[Ian Corrigible]

I had heard it has the same gearbox as the EC225?
Not true: the EC175 has an "all-new main gearbox (http://www.eurocopter.co.za/Product15_149.aspx)" (the 225's box would have been significantly oversized for the 175). The confusion is probably caused by the fact that the 175 uses a similar emergency lube system for its 30-minute run-dry capability (hopefully with correctly spec'd pressure switches).

To paraphrase Rowan Atkinson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke_(sketch)), the EC175's main challenge has been its timing. Had the aircraft met its original certification goal of 2011 it would have enjoyed a market lead. Instead, a 3-year certification slippage (surely due in part to the use of only two prototypes, vs. five for the AW189) meant it became available at exactly the same time as the 189, despite Cascina Costa's product having been unveiled three years later.

I/C

[HeliComparator]

HC, I flew it last month, and was also impressed by some of the new features.


Yes some good ideas. I am thinking of doing a bit of a write up to put about, did you do same?

[PhlyingGuy]

It's a smaller aircraft than the AW189 (apparently now potentially going from 16,500 up to 17,180 vs. 17,900+) and that's probably why they're rushing to increase the MTOW... because it didn't have the capability required by the major operators.

I'm sure it'll do ok, but my guess is with the delay that they had, as Ian said, it's given time for the AW189 to get into the market. That aircraft has the performance that offshore guys want and I predict it will eat the EC175's lunch (70/30 split).

The 525 is reportedly going to fly at the end of the year, but we know the track record with these size aircraft and schedules. Not sure what operators are going to hold off until that certifies, but it's also a bigger aircraft according to their site... so maybe the EC175 plays the short/medium offshore and VIP role, whereas the others do the heavy-duty lifting.

[Lonewolf_50]

PG, thanks. It appears that in the range/payload/size mix, doing the detailed market analysis to see how a given helicopter fits into what the operators need, and then meet the cert requirements, looks to be as much art as science. :cool:

[212man]

it's given time for the AW189 to get into the market. That aircraft has the performance that offshore guys want and I predict it will eat the EC175's lunch (70/30 split).

It will be interesting to see the detailed (accurate) figures. The 189 has 1780 kg of fuel vs the 175's 2100 and the CT7 is thirstier than the PT6, so I'm not sure the 'lunch' will be that easy to eat...

[skadi]

Youtube vid of the scottish promo tour:

_zFmieqU0QQ#t

skadi

[tottigol]

I seriously doubt that the CT-7 is thirstier than the PT6, especially considering tgat the PT6 on this Chinese product is at the upper end of its thermodinamic design.
The 189 shall not have a significantly higher fuel cosumption than the 139, and a considerably lower SFC.

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

The EC175 with the Test Pilot Alain D-Bianca and Flight Test Engineer Michel Oswald spent the last three days putting big smiles on the faces of the Aberdeen Helicopter community. It was an incredible three days of flying.

You know what? It was just nice to be in Aberdeen and happy about helicopters for a change after all the **** the community has been through. We all got into this because of the love of flight and flying machines. The EC175 is the most sophisticated helicopter on the planet. True I am biased but so what! The people who built this machine and Alain and his crew deserve credit for what they have achieved.

If you were lucky enough to fly her or in her in the last few days you know!!

If you still like round gauges. She's not for you!!

Maybe the armchair experts can take a break and at least let us enjoy the birth of a new helicopter and the joy it brought to so many in Aberdeen this week.

PhlyingGuy - if you could only see the extreme measures that are taken to prove and expand a flight envelope and the time it takes to achieve it you would certainly not characterise it as "Rushing" Maybe visibility is rather poor from your armchair.

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

Ananke, sales of the EC225 have never been stronger.

However as you seem to think we can cram a vast object like the EC225 MGB into an EC175 airframe maybe you are not the font of wisdom you are trying to be.

The EC175 has two pumps on separate shafts because it also has a de-clutch system to drive the accessories. It is a completely new design especially for the EC175.

Ananke, if you want to join the professionals try to meet the minimum criteria for entry. More than one braincell being a start!!

DB

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

How about some simple new rules.

1. If you have flown the EC175, or flown in it, please let us have you opinions. Good bad or ugly!!

2. If you have not flown it, or flown in it, ask as many question as you want but save the uninformed half baked opinions for the pub!

Jeez. DB

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

Ananke, sorry maybe I "heard" you only had one brain cell!

I suggest if you want to write about a project as complex and important as a new ME-IFR helicopter you ask questions rather than make dumb statements that clearly demonstrate how little knowledge you have OR that you are pursuing a more sinister agenda.

DB

[212man]

i am reporting you to the moderator.

That's you told DB! Not sure how Ananke is pronounced but I can imagine it would fit into Cockney rhyming slang quite well......

Back on thread - did any of the BHL AW189 pilots in Norwich get to fly the 175? Their views would be particularly pertinent:ok:

[terminus mos]

Does the nosewheel self castor to centre when the oleo extends? It looked slightly skew on the first take off in the video.

I will be interested in its REAL range and payload / fuel burn over the next couple of years. My operations needs lots of fuel due distance and lack of alternates.

[cyclic]

DB

Did you get bullied at school? Made to wear shorts when all the big boys were in long trousers?:ok:

I heard the 175 has the cockpit from the Bolkow 105 and the tail rotor off the Wessex? It can lift 600kg on ISA days and that it is so quiet that you can't hear it coming until it has gone past.

[tottigol]

Oh boy it seems as if DB is under a great deal of pressure from his masters to have the 175 accepted for what it isn't.:E

[PhlyingGuy]

There are many pilots, mechanics, engineers, analysts, etc. on this site. We all have different views and preferences, but we're certainly not sitting in armchairs.

There are tons of posts about various other aircraft where we talk about their pros and cons (i.e. V-22, EC225, S92, etc). So when we talk about the EC175 and some of its failings, understand that just because you may be getting a kick out of that aircraft, the rest of us have opinions of our own.

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

Phlyinguy. How can you possibly accuse me of trolling when you write the drivel that you do!! The prime purpose of every transport aircraft is the deliver maximum payload. There is no rushing involved. It is a clearly though out technical process to certification.

You are free to express your opinions as we are free to discredit them when they are complete fictions like "rushing" to increase the MTOM. Have you even seen the EC175? I suspect not.

212 An - sadly the Norwich 189 Chief Pilot did not make it. I do not know anything about the 189 or the 139. I can only vouch for the 175.

[tottigol]

DB, since you are so knowledgeable about the 175, can you tell us what is its BOM (or Operating dry weight) in the OGP configuration and how nany does it seat in THAT configuration. That would be a good start towards credibility.
For everything else I am getting a sneezing fit, because I am severely allergic to bull****.

[212man]

can you tell us what is its BOM (or Operating dry weight) in the OGP configuration and how nany does it seat in THAT configuration.

4,603 kg and 16, according to ABH.

I assume that everyone with an opinion has read this: http://airbushelicoptersinc.com/images/products/EC175/EC175-TechData-2014.pdf

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

212 man thanks for helping me out with that one. It beggars believe that these guys offer an opinion with diddly squat knowledge and then retrospectively ask for it.

What the hell is "BOM" ????? Does he mean DOM!

I just had two PMs from a stone cold Dork, (you know who you are) to which I replied, followed by his last PM asking me not to reply!! Have I entered some kind of parallel universe.

[Papabair123]

I would suggest you stop making DUM comments and show some respect DOUBLE LOUGY. I think we all know what tottigol meant. In any case, I'm not surprised by Double Bogeys' attitude as it reflects Airbus Helicopters customer service ethics which is :mad: to say the least. Bottom line, AW189 will rule as the AW139 did and still does! End of story!

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

Pababear have your ever flown, seen or studied the EC175?

I hear the AW139 and AW189 are fine ships. Sadly I have never had the chance to fly either and as such would not do AW the disservice of being rude about their product. I am sure AW engineers are justifiably proud of the efforts and rightly so and they do not deserve a person like me, ignorant of their efforts, making stupid uninformed statements or untruthful claims about their helicopters.

Now if people like you followed the same rules I would not feel the need to rein you in now and then.

Come on! Are you informed or are you the mouthpiece Ignoramous as your last post implies!

DB

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

212 Man the TechData you linked is out of date now. The new MTOM being 7,800 kgs. This provides 16 Pax with a radius of action with 30 minute IFR reserve of 170 Nm.

Alternatively, the maximum fuel load (with standard tank fit) permits 12 Pax with an approximate radius of action approaching 280 Nm.

To put this in contact, the EC225 with a full 19 pax has a radius of action of 190 Nm without the forward tanks.

All in all it is a pretty capable offshore machine and an outstanding SAR ship.

However the real progress is in the cockpit and sensing systems. Exceptional redundancy and state of the art AFCS.

The reviews in Aberdeen were outstanding!

[terminus mos]

How many pax can the 175 carry with CAP 1145 implemented but without re breathers (it may take sometime to get everyone trained)? More or less than a 189 or even 139?

DB are you saying radius ie. 280 out and 280 back with 12 pax? That's a long way. Do you know what the fuel burn rate is in real life at 5000 DA? 260 radius is my requirement.

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

TM - I do not have enough personal experience to answer your Q but will find out. My calculations are based on:

155 KIAS, 2000 kgs full, 30 min reserve, 490-510 kgs/hour burn at a cruising altitude. She is a very fast helicopter.

Is your requirement straight out and straight back?


DB

[Bravo73]

The reviews in Aberdeen were outstanding!

How is the order book (compared to current orders for the AW189)?

[Ian Corrigible]

How many pax can the 175 carry with CAP 1145 implemented but without re breathers
Based on the requirement that pax "be seated next to push out window exits (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP%201145%20Offshore%20helicopter%20review%20and%20annexes% 2024214.pdf)," presumably 10 for the EC175:

http://i.imgur.com/Cyj2HdG.jpg (http://airbushelicoptersinc.com/images/products/EC175/EC175-TechData-2014.pdf)

...vs. 8 for the AW189:

http://i.imgur.com/FvePKRD.jpg (http://www.agustawestland.com/system/files/brochures_new_product/aw189_0.pdf)

(But will this interim CAP 1145 requirement ever actually be implemented?)

Interesting to note from their respective Tech Datas that the cabin volumes for the two aircraft are near identical: 424 cu. ft. (plus 82 cu. ft. baggage hold volume) for the 175, vs. 396 cu. ft. (plus 85 cu. ft. baggage volume) for the 189. It's going to be interesting to see how these compare to the 525: the Relentless minisite (http://bell525supermedium.net/interior) used to show a cabin volume of 390 cu. ft. for the 525, but this figure has now disappeared, with Bell quoting only a baggage hold volume of 128 cu. ft. and an unspecified "best in class cabin volume." Perhaps Bell is reviewing its cabin dimensions to offer something better justifying the 'super medium' label? The 525's external dimensions certainly seem bigger.

How is the order book (compared to current orders for the AW189)?

Airbus Helicopters claimed "total bookings for 48 EC175s (http://www.airbushelicopters.com/site/en/press/Two-customers-sign-up-for-the-VIP-version-of-Eurocoptera-s-EC175-twin-engine-medium-class-helicopter_1087.html?iframe=true&width=700)" last September, since when they have also announced six for LCI (http://www.airbushelicopters.com/site/en/press/LCI-orders-six-Airbus-Helicopters-EC175s-becomes-an-EC225e-launch-customer-ordering-15_1118.html?iframe=true&width=700), six more for NHV (http://www.airbushelicopters.com/site/en/press/NHV-orders-six-additional-EC175s-from-Airbus-Helicopters_1114.html?iframe=true&width=700) and two for CHI Aviation (http://airbushelicoptersinc.com/news_press-release/2014/2-25-2014-Heli-Expo-CHIAviation-EC175.asp), with Pegaso (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/mexico39s-pegaso-looks-to-bolster-ec175-order-book-393977/) also claimed to have converted two options to orders. So perhaps 64, assuming that the 16 additional orders weren't conversions of options included in the 48 figure, and assuming also no additional unannounced orders.

By comparison, AgustaWestland claims orders for approximately 130 AW189s, "including options and framework contracts." (http://www.agustawestland.com/news/kaan-air-orders-one-aw139-and-one-aw189-vip-configuration-turkey)

I seriously doubt that the CT-7 is thirstier than the PT6
Interesting question, totti. The CT7 has a 10+ year advantage in terms of baseline technology and a better growth path (to at least 2,638 shp), but engine thermodynamic performance tends to be better at the upper end of the power spectrum (i.e. the 'part power' SFC problem). Then there's the new-generation Turbomeca Ardiden, selected for the Chinese AC352 variant of the 175, which is claimed to offer a "10 to 15 percent reduction in fuel consumption compared with current engines in this thrust class" (http://www.safran-group.com/site-safran-en/press-media/media-section/article/ardiden-3-ready-for-takeoff?11077).

I/C

[212man]

...but engine thermodynamic performance tends to be better at the upper end of the power spectrum (i.e. the 'part power' SFC problem).

Exactly....:ok:

(Commonly referred to as Part Load SFC - PLSFC)

[Bravo73]

Airbus Helicopters claimed "total bookings for 48 EC175s (http://www.airbushelicopters.com/site/en/press/Two-customers-sign-up-for-the-VIP-version-of-Eurocoptera-s-EC175-twin-engine-medium-class-helicopter_1087.html?iframe=true&width=700)" last September, since when they have also announced six for LCI (http://www.airbushelicopters.com/site/en/press/LCI-orders-six-Airbus-Helicopters-EC175s-becomes-an-EC225e-launch-customer-ordering-15_1118.html?iframe=true&width=700), six more for NHV (http://www.airbushelicopters.com/site/en/press/NHV-orders-six-additional-EC175s-from-Airbus-Helicopters_1114.html?iframe=true&width=700) and two for CHI Aviation (http://airbushelicoptersinc.com/news_press-release/2014/2-25-2014-Heli-Expo-CHIAviation-EC175.asp), with Pegaso (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/mexico39s-pegaso-looks-to-bolster-ec175-order-book-393977/) also claimed to have converted two options to orders. So perhaps 64, assuming that the 16 additional orders weren't conversions of options included in the 48 figure, and assuming also no additional unannounced orders.

By comparison, AgustaWestland claims orders for approximately 130 AW189s, "including options and framework contracts." (http://www.agustawestland.com/news/kaan-air-orders-one-aw139-and-one-aw189-vip-configuration-turkey)




Thanks, I/C.

It sounds like the 'industry' has spoken (so far).

[roundwego]

TM - I do not have enough personal experience to answer your Q but will find out. My calculations are based on:

155 KIAS, 2000 kgs full, 30 min reserve, 490-510 kgs/hour burn at a cruising altitude. She is a very fast helicopter.

Is your requirement straight out and straight back?


DB


I think your TAS & FF figures are a bit optimistic. Also, you make a statement regarding the new MTOM being 7800kgs. Is it not the case that this is a projected MTOM increase estimated to be certified towards the end of 2016? Your post gives the impression that 7800kgs is the current MTOM.

I suspect you will be nearer 145kts and 540kg/hr at that weight.

[tottigol]

Damn! Unless Airbus Helicopters just discovered the formula for antigravity at 7800 Kg AUM the 175 shall be another overgrown 155.
Forget PC1 and perhaps PC2e as well. Hold on, I am having another sneezing attack.:E

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

Roundswego - having flown it with 15 pax and two crew one week ago my last statements stand at 3,000 feet + 11 degrees C.

Tottigo - once again have you flown the EC175. If not your statements are uniformed rubbish!

DB

[tottigol]

Way to reply DB, you clearly provide exact technical facts and not a series of well picked numbers that provide a convenient partial truth.
I don't need to fly the dam thing, the laws of physics and aerodynamics apply to all helicopters.
15 pax and two crew, at what total weight, how much fuel onbard, how much did the passengers weigh and what was the fuel flow at what IAS.
Those are the numbers that I want to see, everything else you provide in this forum is MARKETING.
In this world of competing products, a partial truth is worth the potential loss of sale of hundreds of helicopters.
By the way what are your motivations.

Never mind, I saw your profile, another former pilot turned sales rep.

[HeliHenri]

Those are the numbers that I want to see, everything else you provide in this forum is MARKETING.
In this world of competing products, a partial truth is worth the potential loss of sale of hundreds of helicopters.
By the way what are your motivations.


Hello tottigol, you're absolutely right.

But where are the figures you are requesting when you say two pages before on this thread : "The 189 shall not have a significantly higher fuel cosumption than the 139" ?!
Strange statement (marketing) in fact when few days before on the 189 Bristow thread, you say :" Fuel burn is actually comparable to the smaller 139 as well."

The 189 has increased is fuel consumption in two weeks ?!

What are you motivations and who are your masters (as you used this word with DB) ?

.

[tottigol]

I have flown both extensively. The fuel cruise burn charts are available. The 189 fuel flow is within 15 Kg/hr even though it is considerably heavier.
Henry, you are playing semanthics while we arecstill waiting for real numbers for the 175.

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

TOTTIGOL - I am a CURRENT pilot, TRI/TRE on heavy Airbus types.

I work for Airbus. At Airbus we do not critise other manufacturers helicopters as we recognise the huge effort that goes into making a new helicopter. What we do is explain our helicopter capabilities to potential clients and hope we can meet their needs.

I have personal experience of the EC175 but I am not a test pilot or a marketing man. I happen to believe the EC175 is an exceptional helicopter in its own right. I have absolutley no idea how it compares to other manufacturers types.

I described what I saw in flight. As you seem obsessed with mass and airspeed decay I suspect you have not flown a very modern EC type like 225 or 175 because if you had you would realise there is vey little difference in the MTOM airspeeds than when empty.

My motivation is to make people aware that our helicopters are well thought out competitive machines with some really sharp safety features especially in the avionics.

I know you have not flown it and yet you still sound off on this forum as if you are informed. You are either unintelligent, ignorant or attempting to spread disinformation in support of other types.

If you are a helicopter pilot shame on you because no matter what badge a helicopter wears, they are all outstanding flying machines and do deserve your delusions however poorly the are intended.

Go ahead. It's crystal to all on this forum!

[SpeedbirdXK8]

one sighted using Northrepps Airfield north of Norwich doing a demo flights the other probably for Bond; the airfield tried to take photos but Airbus were too cunning and kept to the far corner of the field.

[tottigol]

Look pal, I do not want to change this thread into a slugging match. I am just going to state once and for all that aerodynamics and physics are unflexible, you can improve on them, but going faster at hevier all up masses requires more power, and when you go over a certain threshold your fuel flow rate increases drastically even for modest speed gains.:=
I have never said the 175 sucks, perhaps it does, perhaps it does not.
What sucks for you is that in your job, and considering the professional forum attendance, stating half truths and keeping a similar attitude is only helping the competition.

Have a nice day.

[Papabair123]

I think we are settling with power guys on this thread and need to get speed back on track...I believe everyone here agree that both helicopters mentioned are great in their own right...We can go on and on for ages talking about their performance and get really subjective over it , but the fact of the matter remains the same. That after years of research into the growing market demands in terms of finding a versatile multirole helicopter, Operators have favored (for reasons best known to themselves) the AW189 over the EC175 by a milestone (which is evident in the Total Booking Order). So, Agusta Westland yet again rule the market I'm afraid, which is no surprise for the majority of the world except the fair few. Which brings me back to my earlier thread...:ok:

[tottigol]

I have not criticized the 175, nor have I compared it to the 139 or 189 (HH brought those two threads over here out of context to try getting back at me:D).
What I was trying to obtain are real numbers and not the polished version for the shirt and tie beancounters, the beancounters do not fly the aircraft but they will expect you to fly it the way THEY are told and to get the performance THEY are told.
Those valuable folks flying out to the Oil and Gas production and discovery structures are quite larger and normally carry more gear than skinny corporate type ogling over a fancy cabin interior and oohhing (my term) over a smooth ride, I can make an out of track 412 fly smooth.
That is why the number of passengers is relative and why the PAYLOAD is what counts, same as speed meaning fuel flow.
You can put as much polish on as you wish, but those are the figures that count to get the job done offshore.
And I didn't need to call anyone names to point that out, did I?
So remember Mr. Whatsyourname that YOU represent Airbus on this forum, why I represent myself a possible customer who now shall probably look at the whatever it is competition because of YOUR attitude.

By the way, a quick google search found this article:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/airbus-helicopters-mulls-strategy-for-higher-weight-399566/

So, it seems somebody is lying and it ain't yours truly.

[roundwego]

Roundswego - having flown it with 15 pax and two crew one week ago my last statements stand at 3,000 feet + 11 degrees C.

DB, Your observed figures are more optimistic than those obtained from RFM Sect 5.4.

Can you tell us what the projected North Sea Empty Operating Mass is (fully equipped, including aircraft library, tie downs etc etc but excluding crew and fuel)?

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

Roundswego APS for offshore between 4500-4600 kgs dependant on options taken. Max fuel 2050 kgs. Fuel is left behind with 16 pax but the radious of action at the new MTOM is good at between 170-180 nm.

The real progress is in the Helionics which takes the cockpit one great leap into the future with no Systems Gauges displayed to the crew during Normal operations. Active trend monitoring does the job for the pilot. The AFCS also packed with safety features that protect the envelope and is a natural evolution ofthe EC225 AFCS.

Passengers, operators, unions and pilots all impressed with the open airy cabin, huge windows and exceptionally smooth ride.

It's a fantastic helicopter to fly and every passenger who flew in her on the Demo Tour loved it.

I am sure there are n umbers and parameters that when manipulated cynically will make the old girl look lame but you cannot hide quality and it shone through in spades last week.

DB

[Bravo73]

Passengers, operators, unions and pilots all impressed with the open airy cabin, huge windows and exceptionally smooth ride.

It's a fantastic helicopter to fly and every passenger who flew in her on the Demo Tour loved it.

Something's not quite right though.

The beancounters don't seem to be going for it (64 vs 130). Is each airframe much more expensive than an equivalent AW189?

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

I think we must be a little pragmatic and maybe accept that the issue with the EC225 MGB has probably had an impact. Hopefully as the new shaft enters service and things stabilise the EC175 will have its day in the sun. I never forget that the EC225 has still not hurt anyone but the Insurers!

DB

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

TOTTIGOL just for you Sir;

MTOM - 7800
APS. - 4600
16 bears - 1600
2 pilots - 170
16 bags - 160

Total 6530 empty fuel mass
Fuel 1270 kgs
Burn average 480 ph
Cruise speed average 155 KIAS
30 min reserve 220 kgs

Leaves 1050 fuel burnt at 480 ph mass average in fast cruise 155 KIAS = 340nms or 170 Nm Radius of Action.

I am being kind at 10 kgs per man for the bags but harsh with 16 fat bastards at 100 kgs each. In my 1/4 century of offshore experience I reckons we could generally be 200 kgs better of with a normal average load which will see her radius of action sniffing at 200 Nm.

All I have stated is on the Airbus website and in 212 mans posted link.

My personal flight experience, 17 POB at the MTOM supports the data in the glossy brief.

Now try to be gentle and deal in facts!!

Apologies it took so long but been a bit busy.

[terminus mos]

Why do all "bears" weigh 100kg when all pilots only seem to weigh 85kg? In my experience, they all weigh the same.

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

I dunno.

They are just numbers to hang our hats on.

Maybe I can get names of some offshore workers, weigh them and make a proper list. Would that help TM?

[roundwego]

DB, I thought you said you were a pilot. I think you are a salesman. Look at the RFM. Airbus probably haven't got the figures in the RFM for mass above 7500kgs which has not been certified yet but at 7500kgs (which would be about the half way mark out to your mythical 170nm) the RFM is giving a TAS of 151kt and FF of 540kgs/hr (SFC=3.576kgs/nm) at just below MCP. These are taken from the 3000'/0c graph. At the Recommended cruise setting, the figures are 145kts/515kgs/hr (3.552kgs/nm). Going up to 6000', the figures improve to 3.483kg/nm at MCP and 3.243kgs/nm at Recommended cruise. How do you get 155kt and 480kgs/hr which would give a SFC of 3.097?

[tottigol]

DB, you insist on pushing 7800kg as AUM, however the EC175 was certificated under EASA at a max weight of 7500Kg.
Further weight increases require supplemental certification paperwork and time, so me thinks you are selling vaporware.
Also the number you are boasting for cruise are not matched by the RFM, perhaps you ought to review some figures, or stop lieing in a forum of professionals.
Before you go on a tantrum again and start calling people names, I suggest you review your numbers.
You started by calling those 30 minutes an IFR reserve, that did not really make much sense. Now you caught ghe mistake and made those into a VFR reserve, slightly vloser to reality. 10 kg of bags per passenger happens only in your North Sea dreams, try that in the GoM and you'll be leaving passengers behind to carry the bags, it already happens in the 225.
I have not quite made it yet to the ISA +20 charts, want to guess what I'll find there?
Oh yes, the airy interior and the smooth ride.

[PhlyingGuy]

And how much the passengers liked their free joyride and dinner in Aberdeen. :D

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

TOTTIGOL

1. The IFR reserve at holding speed.

2. Helicopters burn fuel as they fly (you might have noticed) you therefore take an average between them listed figures. You are using values at the MTOM.

3. The cruise speed at 7500 is 156 KIAS. I have seen it with my own eyes.

4. The MTOM will be certified at 7800 kgs very soon. At 7500 the published radius of action Auth 16 oil and gas pax is 140 mms. At 7800 this will increase to between 170 and 200 depending on the mass of the pax. These are mathematical facts.

5. There are very few baggage bumps in an EC225. You are fantasising.

These figures are available in the public domain.

You are making yourself look desperate. Keep trying!

[HeliHenri]

.

Does anyone know when will be the first delivery? (not talking about the first commercial flight).

The last official statement from AH few days ago is not very precise : "Airbus Helicopters will begin EC175 deliveries later this year to the first customers"

So June ? December ?

.

[Bravo73]

I think we must be a little pragmatic and maybe accept that the issue with the EC225 MGB has probably had an impact. Hopefully as the new shaft enters service and things stabilise the EC175 will have its day in the sun.

In the same way as the AW139 tail rotor problems have had an impact on AW189 sales, eh?

There's no avoiding the issue that, at the moment, in the eyes of the operators, the aircraft doesn't seem to make as economic sense as the AW189. What is the approximate price per airframe, please?

[Margins]

DB

I'm pretty sure that EC175 is an exceptional helicopter as I'm sure that AW189 is an outstanding chopper.
I figure you look a little biased on Airbus product and very marketing oriented.
Please also consider some more aspects of your fantastic chopper if compared with the 189:

Usefull load: EC175 2600 kg; AW189 2900 kg

I think we must be a little pragmatic and maybe accept that the issue with the EC225 MGB has probably had an impact. Hopefully as the new shaft enters service and things stabilise the EC175 will have its day in the sun. I never forget that the EC225 has still not hurt anyone but the Insurers!

Run Dry Capability:
EC175 Land as soon as possible within 15 minutes
AW189 Land should be made within 50 minutes

[tottigol]

I am not fantasizing DB, I fly in rhe GoM and can tell you that you normallly don't carry 19 passengers and their bags, because there is not enough baggage space.
At what power setting was the aircraft cruising at 156 KIAS.
You don't fly ariund making holes in the sky in IFR, you go the alternate, and THEN you add your 30 minutes in normal cruise, if you are a pilot you ought to know that.



Stop being insulting, you are desrespecting a whole lot of experienced off-shore pilots.

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

TOTTIGOL, I have flown in GOM, in the EC175.

EC225 -I do not know what loads you are being asked to carry out there, but in the rest of the world 19 pax and their bags for normal crew change flights in an EC225 is no problem!! There are about 150 UK 225 pilots who would agree with that. The baggage hold takes 350 kgs of bags. I personally have never had a bulk out in an EC225 but it happens occasionally especially demanning and up manning when personal tools are involved.

The only offshore pilot I am pissing off is you as you continue to trash a helicopter you have never ever flown and I probably doubt you have seen and I continue to confound you with simple facts.

My motivation to sing the EC225 and EC175s praises is clear and it is very nice and easy because both machines are outstanding helicopters.

The big Q is what is your motivation. What is your vested interest in trashing helicopters other than those you fly. I do not trash other helicopters. I stick to what I know. What exactly is your problem?

Lets start by establishing just how informed you really are:

1. Have you ever flown the EC225

2. Have you ever flown the EC175

3. Have you ever seen either an EC225 or an EC175.


Now I will wager a fiver you refuse to answer at least two of those questions. Please also do try to be honest. I will know if you spit out a pork pie.

Lets see how much substance there really is behind Tottigols vitriolic postings.

PS I do not understand your strange statement about the IFR reserve. To be clear, this reserve is for holding not for Flying to the alternate. Maybe you yanks do it different to us in EASA land.

DB

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

Silence from TOTTIGOL. Guess all four "No's" then!

[tottigol]

DB, I am not desperate, I am not trying to trash any aircraft, I am trying to get some honest answers from you and you are not giving them.

If you are familiar with this:
NCO.OP.126 Fuel and oil supply — helicopters, then you'll know that the 30 minutes apply only if you don't need an alternate, given planning for all possible eventualities is unrealistic, however generally speaking if you go IFR is because the WX is crappy.

I have not flown in any Eurocopter product but I am very familiar with them, as a matter of fact they share the ramp with what I fly.
We do not bump passengers in the 225, but the baggage SPACE not the weight, is extremely limited considering what the passengers carry in the GoM, if you deny that, than you do not know how operations are carried out.

I am quoting you:
2. Helicopters burn fuel as they fly (you might have noticed) you therefore take an average between them listed figures. You instead are making them up as you go.

3. The cruise speed at 7500 is 156 KIAS. I have seen it with my own eyes. Yet, when asked you do not provide a power setting and an altitude, perhaps you were in one of the passenger seats? Or perhaps you cannot correlate IAS with TAS?
156 KIAS are well above the published recommended cruise charts, the numbers on those charts are TAS.
Also on page 51 of the technical data the speed mentioned to achieve those ass numbing ranges is BEST RANGE @ 5000' rather than the eye popping 156 KIAS?

Perhaps, since it's PUBLISHED you ought to read this:
http://airbushelicoptersinc.com/images/products/EC175/EC175-TechData-2014.pdf before you make assumptions in a qualified forum.

4. The MTOM will be certified at 7800 kgs very soon Perhaps you'll be interested in listening to what your company has to say about that.
At 7500 the published radius of action Auth 16 oil and gas pax is 140 mms. Only thing we agree on, but NOT at 156 KIAS, much less.
At 7800 this will increase to between 170 and 200 depending on the mass of the pax. And so shall the fuel burn, but you omit to say that.
These are mathematical facts. Your own mathematics.

You are still pushing numbers for the 7800 Kg certified max weight of the 175, numbers that DO NOT MATCH the ones in the published material, you refuse to answer simple questions and you continuously change your version with regard to the increased gross weight.

So I am going to post a link AGAIN, hoping that you read it and notice the wide differences between your version and the official position of AIRBUS:

Airbus Helicopters mulls strategy for higher-weight EC175 - 5/21/2014 - Flight Global (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/airbus-helicopters-mulls-strategy-for-higher-weight-399566/)

Also here:

EC175 Info Center (http://ec175.airbushelicopters.com/w/en/home.html)

2016 is not soon.

You seem to be very confused with regards to the process required to increase the gross weight in an airframe that has already been certificated at a lower one, a process that involves the certificating authority and not just the OEM. Perhaps you ought to consult with Bell on this matter.

Then you go on telling us that 7800Kg performance is the same as 7500Kg even though NONE OF THE CHARTS IN THE RFM EVEN MENTION 7800Kg but clearly show that with ever increasing weight the cruise speed moves to the left of the graphs, do you think we're stupid?

Also, recommended cruise speed is NOT IAS but TAS, so you have to understand that when you go to the ISA+20 and say "I saw it with my own eyes cruising at 156 KIAS", that is a statement that on its own has no merit, because it does not consider what power was being used at the time.

I am not desperate, I am a very experience helicopter pilot who takes his aerodynamics and performance figures rather seriously, and I am rather amused that AIRBUS allows an individual as unprepared as you to represent them in a public forum.

Now go spread your bull**** somewhere else, I've had it with you.
You can keep the five of whatever currency of your choice.

[terminus mos]

DB

Maybe I can get names of some offshore workers, weigh them and make a proper list. Would that help TM?

Thanks for the offer but no need, as I said, in my experience, they all weigh the same and our POB system has data on several thousand "bears" and all of our pilots and statistically "bears" and pilots are no different. We therefore use the same weights for everyone for planning purposes but it always amuses me that OEMs think that pilots are smaller than "bears".

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

TOTTIGOL you have never flown a Eurocpter product and yet you spout off as if you know it all.

You have been outed as a cad and a Bounder. Spouting off about aircraft that you have never flown, no nothing about (sorry, you seem to have been on the same aerdrome apron) and yet feel the need to discredit them based on your Half baked theory's taken only from a book. Truly an armchair warrior.

I have spoken only of aircraft that I know, fly and instruct upon.

Sorry mate but you are full of it.

DB

[Bravo73]

You would appear to be getting pretty aggressive, DB. And yet you still haven't answered my question:

What is the approximate price per airframe, please?





And yes, I have flown plenty of EC types.

[tottigol]

I would like to apologize to the fine individuals who attend this forum regularly. I allowed a lesser individual take the best of me and drag me into a slugging match that I had no intention of starting.
I provided a less than optimal display of myself over the last two days, as a professional I should have not acted in such a reckless manner.

DB, go on continue with your fairytale life, I however suggest you attend a pilot aerodynamics refresher as soon as possible, because your ideas are very few and well confused, unless of course my initial theory of antigravity proves correct.

You are selling a load of bollocks to whoever is willing to spend 20 million Euros based on an airy cabin and a 20 minutes smooth ride, even the numbers provided by your employer do not support your made in the sky facts, funny part is you do not know the numbers on the goods you are pushing!

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

TOTTIGOL I well appreciate your epiphany. I on the other hand I have done nothing wrong. I have only written from first hand knowledge of the helicopters that I know extremely well (EC225) and the EC175 which I know as well as one can flying it before it is in service.

One thing puzzles me though. I am not a test pilot but I do have a formal qualification in aeronautics. Whilst I accept that in terms of performance there may be slight advantages the one type has over another, all the manufacturers are well capable of exploiting engine and rotor designs to almost maximum effect.

It should be noted that the EC175, the AW139 and the AW189 do not sit in the same MTOM class. They occupy different places in the market especially in offshore where deck mass limits play a part.

Therefore it is not easy to compare like for like and I suspect this is a challenge for the operator as to which machine will meet his needs better.

For AIRBUS a huge amount of effort has gone into the integration of systems and the HMI to provide maximum safety for the crew and passengers.

However, I do not think we can underestimate the need for helicopters that at least pass a nod and a wink to the offshore passengers. It is easy to forget in the rarified atmosphere of Fuel SFCs and Cat A Charts that in fact the mission is to transport our fellow human beings, in comfort, as they simply go to their work. In this respect the EC175 is a massive step forward. While TOTTIGOL you may dismiss the "Airey Cabin" "Enormous Windows" and "Exceptionally smooth Ride" as trivia, to AIRBUS these are the things our customers asked for and on the recent demo tour it is clear from their comments that we have delivered. One very prominent Offshore Union Leader called it "The future of Offshore Transportation" the head of the HSSG said "It is clear Airbus have listened to the Industry"

TOTTIGOL - I have no interest in sparring with you I simply will not sit idle while you and your like spout uninformed rubbish about our helicopters. In so far as you being dragging into a slugging match, NO SIR, you have been caught out once and for all having finally had to admit that your only knowledge is that which you have taken, twisted and manipulated for reasons you still fail to explain, in a poor attempt to discredit the EC175. That is unprofessional, unfair and a terrible example to all who now understand how little you really know.

BRAVO 73 - I apologise but I do not have a clue how much an EC175 would cost as this is not my area of expertise. However, if you really want to know for a genuine reason I can put you in contact with the Sales team who can help. PM with your details and I will IMMEDIATLEY pass them on.

[212man]

While TOTTIGOL you may dismiss the "Airey Cabin" "Enormous Windows" and "Exceptionally smooth Ride" as trivia, to AIRBUS these are the things our customers asked for and on the recent demo tour it is clear from their comments that we have delivered. One very prominent Offshore Union Leader called it "The future of Offshore Transportation" the head of the HSSG said "It is clear Airbus have listened to the Industry"


And, for a sense of balance, that is exactly what AW have done too, with the 189 and its large windows and 'skylight' ceiling lighting (see page two here http://waypointleasing.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/M-11-0134-AW189-brochure-ONLINE.pdf). So, I think the message is getting through to the OEMs (well, some of them....)

[cyclic]

TM

I have been doing my own little statistical survey with regards to passenger weights. Each flight, I take the manifest and have a little flutter with myself as to whether I will be the lightest person on board (NS is dull). Generally, over the last year I would say that in 8/10 flights discounting the very small folk, the P2 and some of the ladies, I am generally the lightest on board. I'm 6'1" so not that small. Obesity is a ticking time bomb for this country and particularly in Scotland. Building an aircraft to house obese passengers isn't the answer although a spacious aircraft both front and rear is a good thing. The employers and the personnel have a real responsibility to put a brake on this health epidemic. I have worked offshore so I know the temptations and the pressures that make the lifestyle a pretty unhealthy one and I'm not saying this doesn't apply to quite a few of the crews as well. Sorry to interrupt the slanging match...

[Ian Corrigible]

What is the approximate price per airframe, please?
Pricing for any large rotorcraft varies significantly depending on configuration and support package, but as a guideline NHV's original order (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:w_BcTeIB_iAJ:events.eurocopter.com/en/article/belgian-nhv-places-significant-ec175-order&strip=1) for 10 aircraft was "valued at close to 150 million Euro," so in the region of EUR 15 million ea. equipped.

The AW189 is similarly priced, based on recent contract announcements (IRO €12.2M baseline, €15M equipped). AW's pricing is traditionally very competitive, with the AW139 baselined over $1M below the smaller S-76D.

I/C

[Bravo73]

Pricing for any large rotorcraft varies significantly depending on configuration and support package, but as a guideline NHV's original order (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:w_BcTeIB_iAJ:events.eurocopter.com/en/article/belgian-nhv-places-significant-ec175-order&strip=1) for 10 aircraft was "valued at close to 150 million Euro," so in the region of EUR 15 million ea. equipped.

The AW189 is similarly priced, based on recent contract announcements (IRO €12.2M baseline, €15M equipped). AW's pricing is traditionally very competitive, with the AW139 baselined over $1M below the smaller S-76D.

I/C

Thanks (again), I/C.

I thought that the AW189 might have been considerably cheaper to purchase than the EC175. This might have (partly) explained why it is currently outselling it 2 to 1.

But it's not. So, there must be something else that explains why the industry is tending to choose Italian over French in this case... :confused:

[Ian Corrigible]

AW have been extremely smart in marketing to the thriving lease market (e.g. LCI (www.lciaviation.com), MAG (http://www.milestoneaviation.com) & Waypoint (http://www.waypointleasing.com)). The company has structured its cross-fleet sales deals so that the lessors can enjoy significant flexibility in which aircraft they actually end up taking -- for example, an agreement is made to buy $100M of 139s, 169s and 189s, but the actual ratio of models taken is left negotiable until end-user customers are secured.

I'm sure the success of the 139 has also helped its bigger brother!

I/C

[tottigol]

Has anyone been able to download or acess the Airbus Helicopters EC-175 performance data brochure lately?
Either I am having trouble or they removed everything but the first four pages.
Also, any news regarding the "soon to be certificated gross weight increase"?

[212man]

Has anyone been able to download or acess the Airbus Helicopters EC-175 performance data brochure lately?

Yes, it is rather truncated! (But still has the old page numbers at the bottom.)

[tottigol]

Yes, I suspected it wasn't necessarily my defective browser.
Were you able to download it in its entirety before Airbus put the cloaking device into action?
Thanks.

[nowherespecial]

Also worth bearing in mind 2 things:

1. 189 is selling like hot cakes because so much of the tech from the 139 is coming with it therefore the ac is very similar to own and operate, thus fleet compatibility is similar and therefore cheaper. Despite being new, it is not seen as new owing to tech crossover.

2. 175 is brand new and no one likes to buy the first ones. Being second to market has absolutely not helped either.

IMHO, the 175s cavernous windows will be a hit with the increasingly generous offshore workers but will not be the commercial hit the 189 is destined to be. If AW can retrofit larger windows (I know they are not bad already) then one of the main selling points (of the 175) goes away.

[HeliHenri]

.
Airbus Helicopters delivers the first new-generation EC175 rotorcraft :


"A double-handover ceremony today marked Airbus Helicopters’ first deliveries of its new-generation EC175, with two of these 7-metric-ton category rotorcraft provided to NHV for oil and gas missions in the North Sea."


Helicopter manufacturer, aircraft helicopter military, colibri helicopter - Airbus Helicopters (http://www.airbushelicopters.com/site/en/ref/Press-Releases_310.html)

.

[Ian Corrigible]

Henri,

Still no news on PT2 having flown in China? Airbus certainly took the hard road in certifying with only two prototypes, vs. five for the AW189/AW149.

Amusing to see an unnamed 'Airbus Helicopters official' break rank recently and express frustration with the Chinese partner: "An Airbus Helicopters official recently attributed part of the EC175's delay to problems with Avicopter, which has a 50-percent stake in the program." (http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2014-12-02/avicopter-unveils-new-light-twin)

I/C

[HeliHenri]

.

Hello I/C,

Well, As you know, AH doesn't have to worry about his Chinese partner, China will buy 1000 EC175 (Airbus Helicopters and China’s Avicopter the helicopters business unit of AVIC, today signed a joint agreement for the production of 1,000 new generation EC175/AC352 rotorcraft / Paris, France, March 26, 2014). :rolleyes:

Who can believe that ?! :ugh:

.

[Ian Corrigible]

Isn't the SOP to 'borrow' one aircraft for a couple of weeks, return it (with all the tolerances mysteriously altered) and then proceed to build a local knock-off? :E

http://i.imgur.com/mVmDjtQ.jpg

I remember Bell Helicopter pulled no punches back in 2007 when it described its fury at having been used by its one-time 430 fuselage supplier Hafei Aviation (now part of Avicopter) as an unpaid training college. Something along the lines of the Bell CEO noticing that there was a completely different group of technicians working on the fuselages each time he visited the Chinese plant...

I/C

[NHV]

DFIfFJqAw8g

[Ian Corrigible]

I heard today that Bristow is no longer the launch customer. They're going with Agustas
Bristow more than triples H175 orders (to 17 aircraft) (http://bristowgroup.com/bristow-news/latest-news/2015/bristow-more-triples-h175-orders-secures-support-s/)

I/C

[chopper2004]

Airbus Helicopters (http://www.airbushelicopters.com/website/en/press/Hong-Kong%E2%80%99s-Government-Flying-Services-acquires-seven-H175s_1827.html)

Cheers

[noooby]

Is there any info anywhere on how many 175's are actually in service?

Usually on the end of order announcements and OEM will tack on a paragraph about how great their machine is and how many orders there are, but AH seems to have left that out of their 175 announcements.

[Self loading bear]

Airbus states on their website:
18 on final assembly line
69 orders
If you look at Helicopter History Site (http://www.helis.com) you see only 4 production serials.
Of which 2 demonstrators and 2 NHV.
Last update of this list March 2015.
I do not know if helis.com is accurate but i cannot Google any other deliveries.
Something amiss??

SLB

[offshore gezza]

2 are with NHV in Den Helder and the 2 "demonstrators" also belong to NHV.
I am visiting the production line tomorrow and looking forward to flying it.

[Self loading bear]

Gezza,

Enjoy your flight.
Will you be flying it as a job later on as well?

As i am just a SLF i have enjoyed being a passenger in PH-NHV lately.
Quite comfortable.
I saw that the pilots had some small screen error in the moving map feature.
(Something with re scaling the icons when changing radar distance)
I am sure it will be sorted out.

I did see that the demonstrator which went to Brazil and Mexico is in NHV livery
(Serial 5003 F-HCEI)
I did not know that the demonstrator 5001 is also destined for NHV.

Is the pause in deliveries since May a planned non-event or a production problem?
I have read that Airbus aims at 23 aircraft a year.
With stated 18 current on the line the output would have to run up to 1 in 3 weeks very soon?

Does somebody have an order list with serials assigned to clients likewise i can find on the web for the AW139?

SLB

[Rigging Pin]

Here they come!

HeliHub H175 to start UK-based offshore operations (http://helihub.com/2015/10/05/h175-to-start-uk-based-offshore-operations/)

Even though the company who might have lost the contract is keeping it's mouth shut, it sure looks like NHV has won it.

RP

[FC80]

Does this aircraft have any icing clearance whatsoever yet?

[Variable Load]

Does this aircraft have any icing clearance whatsoever yet?

Judging by the way NHV are operating the EC175 out of Aberdeen this week it hasn't. With a cloud base of about 900 feet and marginal vis they have been departing and arriving special VFR. That was until last night when they were refused a special VFR clearance into the zone. A climb into icing conditions for an ILS must have felt very uncomfortable for the crew.

Let's hope they don't have an accident due to commercial "enthusiasm" to keep their new customer happy.

[Ian Corrigible]

Does this aircraft have any icing clearance whatsoever yet?
Limited icing clearance reportedly expected this year (http://www.aviaport.ru/news/2015/03/26/331699.html), following trials in the Alps last spring (http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2015-04-13/airbus-helicopters-performs-h175-engine-removal), with full icing clearance following in 2018 or 2019 (http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2015-05-25/soft-launch-airbus-h175). So based on the delays traditionally associated with de-icing systems, more likely 2019...

I/C

[Never Fretter]

Surely no one would start an offshore contract 1 Jan in Scotland without at least limited icing clearance?

[HughMartin]

Surely no one would start an offshore contract 1 Jan in Scotland without at least limited icing clearance?

The S76 operated for many years out of Aberdeen on long range flights very successfully without any icing clearance.

They will probably have to come up with some new low level arrival and departure routes though.

[Variable Load]

Hugh,

Indeed the S76 did. I can remember a particularly cold day when based in Sumburgh, with all the BIH S61s not flying as there was no way to comply with the limited icing requirements to the ESB i.e. very low cloudbase and no positive band of air.

You can imagine the head scratching that took place when an Aberdeen based Bond S76 fuel stopped to/from the Heather :ugh:

Perhaps that pilot now works for NHV?? ;)

[G.mcn]

anyone know something about NHV's 175 stuck offshore in the dutch sector?

Rumour has it, that the a/c is stuck offshore since last friday afternoon with MGB chip warning. Following, Airbus is not allowing to ferry the a/c back to maintenace facility on NTO/without passengers since "large particals" where found on the detector. Airbus wants to fly in inspector(?) or a/c has to be lifted/brought back by boat to the beach.

Anyhow glad that crew took proper action and safety measurments where in place to detect failure in time.

[Apate]

No NHV fanboys willing to dish the dirt? Well there's a surprise!

[The Sultan]

Waiting to see the crane hoist of shame photos. Hard to believe the operator would accept a Airbus inspector's word after Norway.

The Sultan

[Never Fretter]

Waiting to see the crane hoist of shame photos. Hard to believe the operator would accept a Airbus inspector's word after Norway.

The Sultan

No shame in being cautious, only in unprofessional anonymous sniping.

[Nescafe]

unproffesional

Oh, the irony.

[Never Fretter]

Oops!:O Corrected!

[minigundiplomat]

How did the EC175 demonstration tour of West Africa go? I'd be interested in how well it travels..

[nowherespecial]

I hear Tullow have 2 in Ghana and one is badly broken. With a different problem to the broken one in Aberdeen w/ Chevron.

Great when it works is what I hear. Which is not very often.

[Self loading bear]

I hear Tullow have 2 in Ghana and one is badly broken. With a different problem to the broken one in Aberdeen w/ Chevron.

Great when it works is what I hear. Which is not very often.

NWS,
Please tell us more

SLB

[nowherespecial]

SLB, that would be telling....

I'm waiting to hear Airbus' explanation for customers...

[Greeny9]

Both 175 in Ghana serviceable and flying daily.

[EESDL]

Both 175 in Ghana serviceable and flying daily.

Never let a rumour get in the way ..

[Tango123]

How are the two NHV 175 doing in the Tullow contract in Ghana?

Heard that it was up for tender....

[industry insider]

PHI has won the Tullow contract in Ghana with 2x S-92s. Although mostly remaining in the USA GOM, PHI does bid internationally but is very selective about which work and tender to bid and which ones to leave alone.

[Tango123]

Thanks for the update, ii

Must be a huge blow to NHV, since they have just spend lots on the shift from the 155. How many pilots are then out of a job, 20-30? Unless NHV can use them (with the 175 rating elsewhere)?

Can I asume that PHI have enough already employed pilots with experience on the S92, to fill in the new contract?

[tottigol]

Those are likely to be N registered S-92s, so an FAA certificate and relative TR may be appropriate.

[nowherespecial]

II is right. NHV lost the contract but sent the 175s as a hail mary sales pitch to Tullow. It didn't work and PHI will show up later this year.

If the NHV 175s are ADS-B equipped, they should show up on Flight24 (the S92s and 189s already do). That they are not at all for the last 3 days of last week (I don't have all day to check every day!) says that with Tullow's project coming on line, NHV are back using the N3s and the 175s are broken again.

Anyone?

[Greeny9]

Both 175 in Ghana serviceable and flying daily.

[EESDL]

175s on Esbjerg contract
Is this additional work or just taking the place of defunct 225s?
Understand NHV boys n girls are being asked for a 2-year bond - not sure where NHV think they will run away too within 2-years?

[nowherespecial]

NHV starts H175 operations for Maersk Oil out of Esbjerg - Vertical Magazine (http://www.verticalmag.com/press-releases/nhv-starts-h175-operations-maersk-oil-esbjerg/?utm_source=vertical-daily-news&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=vertical-daily-news-08-23-16)

'with whom it has a long standing relationship' to me suggests this is not new work but plugging a gap with the new aircraft.

Let's see if we can get Greeny9 to use his Jedi mind trick again 'all is well, these ac are perfect, serviceable and flying with 100% no issues ever at all'... :cool:

[Self loading bear]

Last week 16-17 Aug I saw OO-NSF flying from Den Helder. This is one of the aircraft originaliteiten stationed in Aberdeen. Looks like they are swapping out machines?

SLB

[skadi]

First H175 delivered to Mexico

http://www.helis.com/database/news/h175_pegaso/

skadi

[heli1]

So is there one or two H175s at Esbjerg ....the press release is confusing as it refers to H155s too!

[piperpa46]

More than likely they are plugging the gap from the EC225s. NHV/Dancopter were flying 3 of those which has so far been replaced by two EC155s. On top of that Maersk has been using Bel Air AW189s and AW139s since April.

[piperpa46]

Looking at the schedule Dancopter is flying it looks like they only have on H175 at the moment. There where no helicopters offshore, the hangar was empty and OO-NSI had just landed at 17:15 today.

[EESDL]

http://www.verticalmag.com/press-releases/airbus-helicopters-launches-flight-test-campaign-h175-public-services-configuration/?utm_source=vertical-daily-news&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=vertical-daily-news-10-12-16

[spinner79]

Has Airbus recived certification for Lips on the H175 yet?

[PlasticCabDriver]

It has a clearance for flight in limited icing conditions. Such flight requires installation of the Winter Kit (some blanking over the intake grids, plus some adjustments to the engine internally), Windscreen Heater, Ice Detector, AC Alternator and the horizontal stabiliser protection plate.


If that's what you mean by LIPS, then yes, it's certified.

[spinner79]

I wasn't aware it was already approved for flights in known Icing conditions. i only read in verticalmag.com That Airbus was hoping to get the approval in the end of 2016. But I haven’t seen any Easa document regarding approval for flight in limited icing conditions yet. Witch is why I asked ☺ PlasticCabDriver: would you know where I could find the EASA approval?

[obnoxio f*ckwit]

Flight Manual Supplement 4.

[spinner79]

If you look at the type certificate for the H175 issue 2.
It is not approved for flight in icing conditions.

https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/TCDS_EASA_R150_AH_EC175B_Issue_02_18Dec2015.pdf
quote.
11.
Operating Limitations VFR day and night
IFR
Non-icing conditions

So there must be a type certificate issue number 3 with limited flight in icing right ?