GB Airways

[speedmarque]

Hi

This is a big rumour among various press offices at LGW at the moment. Kevin Hattons appointment as cheif of GB has started it. Personally i think KH took a wonderful airline (BY) and let TUI ruin it before he left. Lets hope GB doesn't follow suit under his leadership.

[propaganda]

Here we go again......more rumours with no substance.

[fiftyfour]

BA can not afford to buy GB, even if it was for sale. The price tag would be £100 to £150 million. BA has billions of debts which need to paid off, there is the pension deficit to pay off, and of course they need to think about borrowing for fleet replacements 737, 767, 747 eventually etc.

[Hand Solo]

£150M is peanuts for BA and the overall debt is now lower than the cash reserves, so pension deficit aside BA is now in the black. £150M would also be a very reasonable price for all those GB slots at LHR. Still don't think it would happen though.

[speedmarque]

Here we go again......more rumours with no substance.
And the name of this website forum is.............Professional pilots FACT network? No. Wind yer neck in matey!

[Climb and maintain]

GB Airways is NOT for sale!!! Thats from James himself!

[Fly747]

GB (including BMed) would of course be a very good starting point for the BA2 I suggested over on the strike thread. Along the lines of Swiss/Crossair etc.
Don't forget Nigel that not all those who drive a jet with BA written on the side are BA pilots, you are replaceable.

[propaganda]

Speedmarque......Come on then ..Your press office connections ..spill the beans .....MORE RUMOURS then I'll wind my neck in MATEY.:}

[Major Cleve Saville]

Why would BA be interested? Four years ago maybe, but BAs shorthaul costs have come down comparatively since then so what would they be buying?
Poor routes: we no longer have the 'niche' market in Iberia that we once did. The GB Board have stood by and let the low cost operators swamp the routes that once made the money. We are hamstrung by the franchise and have to fly further for less yield to try to stay afloat.
There is no way flying an A320 or 321 for 5-6 hours with 30-50 passengers on board is going to make money. Now fuel prices are so high the operating cost of a 320 must be approx £3750 per hour. 5 times that is about £18000. Each punter would have to pay about £120 each way plus taxes for a full aircraft to make any money to e.g. Paphos. We are not full and they are not paying anything like that!
Notice the low cost carriers rarely have sectors of more than 2.5 hours. There is a sound commercial reason for that.
If you think the next BA comedian is going to be an improvement on Johnny Vegas forget it. If he was any good BA then TUI would not have let him go.
The board needs a proper strategy if they are to save this once proud airline.
I suggest: stop selling Full Service tickets at less than low cost fares in aircraft with 30% fewer seats. Oh and if the board learned some basic maths that would help, shoes and socks off if they run out of fingers. Otherwise bye bye GB.

[TopBunk]

Furthermore ... whilst LHR slots are something that BA are still prepared to spend capital reserves on, I don't believe GB have more than a very few (if any) LHR slots, and the thread started off talking about GB Airways rather than BMed anyway.

Predominately, GB operate from LGW (with a few recent MAN routes). BA (imho) are certainly not interested in picking up any LGW slots whilst our own LGW operation is itself under scrutiny once again. Until BA can get our own cost base under control (excess staff numbers due restrictive practices and massive central overheads foe example), then incorporating GB into BA would just increase the losses at LGW. BA get more out of the arrangement through franschisiing fees from GB than they would by buying it and bringing it in-house.

[Oxidant]

Well said Major C S.

[Skipness One Echo]

CRIPES and BLIMEY. GB are a small efficient and focused little outfit making a bit of money in a tough market. So obviously BA will buy them just to arse it all up. Isn't that what they do? They are like a scorpion. British Regional Mark 2

[toledoashley]

Well, with the announcement of Gary David (Managing Director) being suspended from Cadogan Holidays last week - who knows whats going to happen.

[gayrugbybloke]

Rumour has it that GB are looking to start some more new routes from Manchester. Interestingly, Moscow and Athens have been mentioned.

Any more info available?

[future_pilot17]

Not trying to be rude here or anything but why isn't this in the 'MANCHESTER' thread?!

[smith]

Coz its quite rightly in the airlines,airports and routes thread

[future_pilot17]

Coz its quite rightly in the airlines,airports and routes thread

Yes but it's to do with Manchester airport of which there is a long thread running on.

[The_Bean_Counter]

Perhaps people are interested in hearing about particular airline developments rather than wading through 10 pages of tosh about an airport and its dispute with ramp handling staff

[future_pilot17]

Perhaps people are interested in hearing about particular airline developments rather than wading through 10 pages of tosh about an airport and its dispute with ramp handling staff

Obviously so! with not one relevent answer so far...:hmm:

[GrahamK]

Obviously so! with not one relevent answer so far...

So why reply thrice then? :confused:

Anyway, can't really see Moscow and Athens, Moscow as I don't think the CX proposol for HKG-SVO-MAN is dead yet, and ATH-MAN, I think BA Mainline would rather keep them connecting though LHR.

[heebeegb]

Why don't you start by asking yourself what YOU really got out of posting that thread?

[Greenfinch]

Hey Heebeegb,

Go easy on Flapjack - despite the slightly sensationalist title to the thread, he raises some valid points that may stimulate some interesting debate.

Also see the GB pay negotiations thread........

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=212138

[Dash-7 lover]

Thought GB was profitable according to previous posts??? Maybe becoming a wholly owned BA subsidiary - would fit nicely with the BA Connect network????? The family run holding company for GB - isn't doing too well from what I hear though....

[beauport potato man]

i think flapjack made some valid points, but agree that mere speculation is sometimes unhelpful.

I think GB has a very bright and exciting future!!!

BPM

[PPRuNe Pop]

For the new people. Please, no slagging or flaming. We don't allow it. If you don't have facts don't post your best guess. It upsets innocent folk.

PPP

[HZ123]

It would not sit within the BA Connext business plan and they already make a significant loss.

[Greenfinch]

Blimey, beauport potato man - your post has been pretty drastically sanitised since you edited it - have they pulled you into the office for a 'chat' ? :D
SectorSafe, you state.....
What you post is unsubstantiated and your own opinion and observations
Surely, all posts on PpruNe are the observations and opinions of individuals and therefore cannot be viewed as 'official' ?

[beauport potato man]

just giving benefit of the doubt in the early days finchy.

[Man Flex]

Greenfinch,

"GB has a very bright and exciting future"

What does BPM know/has he heard that has so revised his stance on this matter?

[Oxidant]

FlapJack
What you post is unsubstantiated and your own opinion and observations. What you only succeed in doing is getting people's backs up (mine) and creating panic and worry to your fellow colleagues.........


Well, as JM, JH & JP (directors) are all either leaving or left (+ a senior bod in the parent travel group) & is general knowledge.
Easy & FR have done as flapjack320 says..
T&C,s have got worse (& more to come methinks)...
Two Cpts & ten F/Os have left (or handed in their notice)in the the last few months, with at least three other Cpts I know of about to do the same!
Then, either you have been asleep or are doing your best ostrich impersonation.:ok:

BTW, Remember what this forum is called!

[Craggenmore]

Two Cpts & ten F/Os have left (or handed in their notice)in the the last few months, with at least three other Cpts I know of about to do the same! Anyone know if they will be drawing from their hold pools at long last?

[False Capture]

Dash-7 lover is trying to wind-up the GB pilots as the BA Connect and GB 'products' are very different.

Just curious, when is GB's BA franchise up for renewal?

[Bootylicious]

All sounds like truthful stuff to me. People have left and are leaving. That inludes Managers. Do they know something we don't??

[Greenfinch]

Thanks Flapjack - yeah, it was a cracking night out and one hell of a send-off ! (many thanks to all who turned up).

I think you should ignore any flack you get over this thread - like I said earlier, you've raised some valid points that should stimulate some interesting debate. After all, isn't that what PPRuNe's all about ?

Cheers,

'finchy :ok:

[PRNAV1]

So I’m guessing GB is looking for replacements for these crew that have left? Any one have any idea about numbers? With new aircraft on the way too I’m guessing a few…:)

[Craggenmore]

flapjack320,

Please check your Private Message's

Thanks,

Craggs.

[Flightrider]

GB lost about £5.5m last year. Reports not yet filed but that is apparently the figure. Most of this seems to be down to the fact that they are continually trying to sell £1 for 50 pence, particularly given the crazy bulk buying rates that they give to many of the tour operators using GB flights.

[Miss Inform]

I hear that another pilot has resigned, a training captain this time...

[Oxidant]

Tis correct.

Not replacing him either, so the ostrich is alive & well (sic):yuk:

[thomsonfly.com]

How many aircraft do GB Airways still have on order, and where are they likely to expand to next? The MAN hub is now over a year old, how is it doing? Does anyone think BHX will ever play a role in GB's future considering BA Connect's position there, or is there too much LCC competition?

[HZ123]

Cannot see BHX ever playing a role for BACON, GB or BA, the glory days have been and gone, the greater likelyhood is BA will dissapear from Brum altogether.

[beauport potato man]

thomsonfly

i believe (and i'm sure someone will dutifully correct me) that GB have 4 x A321's on order, the first of which is G TTIE and arriving very very soon, but i think will be replacing A320 G TTOA.

Where do GB expand to next - that's a very good question, and perhaps this'll become clearer now the ex-TUI/Brittania boss is in place as GB Managing Director.

I'm sure that any expansion will have to be on the longer side rather than staying in the 1 - 3hr sector area around europe where Easy and Ryan will strongly dominate once all of their firm orders for 100's of aircraft arrive.

GB have been slowly pulling of these LoCo routes..... the next of which will be the removal of Valencia this month i think.

Interesting times ahead methinks

happy flying

BPM

[Rumours everywhere]

According to Flight a couple of weeks ago, there are 6 x A321's on order, and 1 x A320... though it was previously talked about that these were replacements for existing aircraft, and not necessarily additional ones.

[Turroncin]

There's at least 1 extra aircraft arriving, or at least that's they were saying when they were doing recruitment for extra cabin crew needed to get the thing off the ground

[Barber's Pole Bob]

But don't forget the possibility to drop those poor performing routes.....Less routes = less planes :ugh:

[Frank Poncherello]

Next = CREW CALL :mad: :mad: :mad:

[easyprison]

Just noticed this off another website. Looks to me like BA are running a trial using to GB. If Successful my bet's on LGW going BA Connect. Why did BA sell Go again? :rolleyes:
http://www.gbairways.com/baconnect/summary/

[Man Flex]

Old news I'm afraid.

[Volmet South]

The final paragraph reads

Please note that BA Connect services from London Heathrow and London Gatwick will continue to offer complimentary food and a Club Europe cabin on our European network.

So will LHR and LGW become BACON bases or not ? This would mean that the airline finally begins to connect with the rest of the BA network although I think the full portfolio of domestic routes is a little too much to hope for but we can all dream.

[spud]

Will ID90 tickets still be valid on BA Connect ?

Please spare me the predictable replies pointing out that at such bargain prices, ID90s are redundant.

[tiggerific_69]

yes ID90s can still be used with BACON

[UPS@EMA]

Has BA regional (Now Bacon) always been purchase on board food i.e last few years???? or did it come in with Bacon????? I am booked BA from BHX to MAD and when i booked my flights BACON wasnt in the frame.

Anything????

[Cutoff]

Buy on board came about with BA Connect

[skiddyiom]

Stand by for BA Connect to take over the world! :}

skiddy

[4468]

Surely it won't be too long before GB introduce scheduled services on their Frogbusses to destinations terribly familiar to Bacon (and incidentally ex-BAR) personnel!

GB are of course a pretty slick operation, with new aircraft, and high customer satisfaction ratings. I can also easily imagine they have a cost base at least as low as Bacon!

What goes around, comes around I guess.

I suspect the only thing to save their Bacon will be BA's scope agreement. Oh the beautiful irony!!

[tallaonehotel]

Stand by for BA Connect to take over the world! :}
skiddy
Skiddy, you have been downing those funny wee whisky things again haven't you??
Get the BACON baps in for the troops on Friday and i'll make up something that we are getting A318's to replace the RJ's!

[nivsy]

Is this aircraft jinxed (some of you must be in the know) or is it just my bad luck? Twice in the last month been travelling on this machine and last Sunday saw me (and a full load of pax) sitting on board at LGW after push back for a lovely 2 hours while they sorted out computer problems - indeed a change of some sort of computer. We were towed back onto stand - No 1 shut down - started up again - shut down - APU switched off - started up again - and while kept informed on proceedings and despite being (eventually) back on gate not offered a disembark into gate seating area. Another eventful trip down to GIB with GB Airways - (and no spare sandwiches!!!!) Ooops.


Nivsy

[Dash-7 lover]

This refers more to the product than the airline in this respect. One reads this as all the GB stuff ex MAN will be BA Connect. Mr Evans always said that if anyone else wanted to come into the arena it would have to be called BA Connect. It would seem stupid to offer 2 different products out of the one ''base''. I expect the shuttle services will be next, pending approval from the unions although these are London bases. Nothing like progress!!

[Tandemrotor]

It would seem stupid to offer 2 different products out of the one ''base''.

Have you forgotten the BACON operation out of EDI?

Not to mention other destinations. Harmonisation of the product is, I would humbly suggest, not a very convincing justification!

[Dash-7 lover]

Tandemrotor.... no I haven't forgotten. EDI is a BACON base and yes we do offer 2 different products, but EDI-LCY is a prime business route. The GB airways routes are primarily for the bucket and spade brigade. I would question the future products offered by some of the other franchise carriers like Loganair and Sun-Air, but it is early days and the signs are very positive. One of the main benefits of the ''buy on board'' service is the dramatic cut in wastage and costs to the airline, while still giving the majority of customers what they want. I would imagine that as the GB routes are longer than any of BACON's then the savings would be a lot greater, and people will buy more the longer the sector becomes.

[Flightrider]

Plans afoot to lease out two A320s for the coming winter - being advertised in Airfax today.

Also understand that flying from two new UK regional airports is in the pipeline down to Tenerife.

[Tandemrotor]

Ah, now for the 'expansion' of the BACON brand!

[Mouser]

Next,
Paphos

[FougaMagister]

Interesting to see a BA franchise moving the goalposts into typical charter/low-cost territory...

Cheers :cool:

[Railgun]

They are going LO-CO under the BA CONNECT brand.

[FougaMagister]

I know that. But you aren't taking it at face value, are you? ;)

Cheers :cool:

[Railgun]

FougaMagister

What you believe them going to BA connect is all a ploy and they are really a full fair airline still :\

[heebeegb]

you need to get out more...

[EGCC]

Arrecife, Gran Canaria, Marrakesh, Malaga and Malta all dropped from MAN next winter, TFS and PFO continue. Flights starting from EMA and BRS.

[airhumberside]

Arrecife, Gran Canaria, Marrakesh, Malaga and Malta all dropped from MAN next winter, TFS and PFO continue. Flights starting from EMA and BRS.
Are they keeping theier base at MAN for two routes?

Ive read on another forum that GB will leave Seville and suspend Nantes for the winter. The low cost airlines seem to be affecting GB a lot at the moment

[GW76]

The low cost airlines seem to be affecting GB a lot at the moment
Hence the "cant beat em -join em" routine. You can hardly go wrong with TFS and PFO

[Mouser]

That's a long day for crew MAN - BRS - TFS - BRS - MAN, there must be a stop, some were along the line.

[EGCC]

Yes, apparently crews will be nightstopping in TFS.

[captainyonder]

So is it only MAN crews who will be operating the EMA and BRS flights or will us LGW guys be doing them too? I guess it would mean having to train for BA Connect onboard service down here.

[Mouser]

I've heard there,s a nite stop in TFS , will this not cost money.

[FougaMagister]

Railgun - my point is that there is more to going low-cost than merely lowering fares, flying with minimum crew and providing all snacks/drinks for sale. Any airline can lower its fares (at least in the short term), but actually lowering operating costs (and keeping them low) takes a lot more effort. The low-cost model works provided it is not tampered with; in other words, it is not a very flexible business model if it is to be successful.

That said, GB are probably better placed than BA Connect to pratice low cost; one thing going for them is that their fleet is better adapted - but flying longer sectors like TFS (meaning they won't be able to use their aircraft on 4 to 6 sectors each day like LCCs do) and having crew nightstop downroute may well make their fares higher than the competition. Good luck to them though.

Cheers :cool:

[Desk Driver]

I've just heard GB to fly BRS - TFS & EMA - TFS 3 times a week in the winter.:ok:

Plus they're MAN product will fall in line with BA connect:confused:

[Dash-7 lover]

Yep BA Connect product on all GB Airways services excluding London. Flights will be marketed as BA Connect ''operated by GB Airways'' - Just goes to show that there's faith in the new product and gives BA Connect some strength..... Check out the GB Airways website. (news services to TFS from EMA/BRS as well) Also see BRS and EMA threads.

[GW76]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=215357&page=3

[captainyonder]

Are the flights being operated by MAN or LGW crews?

[OltonPete]

That's a long day for crew MAN - BRS - TFS - BRS - MAN, there must be a stop, some were along the line.

Can anyone explain where the EMA & BRS flights originate from. Both are
shown on ba.com as "W" patterns but the MAN & LGW flights do not match at the moment (timetable not updated?).

I am correct in saying that EMA & BRS to TFS ops on the same day, which
you would think would be one 320 from MAN and one from LGW. However the timetable at the moment does not reflect this and some of the MAN/LGW's are shown as 321's.

Are there any more UK destinations planned?

OltonPete

[Turroncin]

Apparently more MAN crews will do it than London ones. They will do MAN-TFS, nightstop, then the next day TFS-EMA-TFS, nightstop, then TFS-LGW (an example)

[egnxema]

If GB at MAN is going BACON, but at LGW is remaining British Airways - surely that would cause some differences if a crew was flying (inc nightstops) MAN-TFS-EMA-TFS-LGW. :confused:

Plus - BACON is Purchase on Board catering isn't it?

Book a flight on the BA website and it states:-

Included in your fare Operated by GB Airways
Comfortable 30-31in seat pitch (76-78cm)
Complimentary food and drink to suit the time of day
Reserved seating at check-in
Complimentary newspaper available

[Dash-7 lover]

Can't see BMED taking on the BACON brand as it's LHR based but how long do we think it'll be before Loganair and SunAir joing the foray - assuming Loganair want to stay as a franchise?? Would make sense to be honest.

There must be a bigger picture somewhere, ie GB becoming wholly owned and becoming BA Connect or mainline selling BA Connect to GB????? Something big's gonna happen soon me thinks.

[tallaonehotel]

Can't see BMED taking on the BACON brand as it's LHR based but how long do we think it'll be before Loganair and SunAir joing the foray - assuming Loganair want to stay as a franchise?? Would make sense to be honest.
There must be a bigger picture somewhere, ie GB becoming wholly owned and becoming BA Connect or mainline selling BA Connect to GB????? Something big's gonna happen soon me thinks.


I think job losses will be on the cards for all of the BA Connect staff when Willy bins BACON. GB would be daft taking BACON on with all of it's problems and mismatch of a fleet.

[Turroncin]

If GB at MAN is going BACON, but at LGW is remaining British Airways - surely that would cause some differences if a crew was flying (inc nightstops) MAN-TFS-EMA-TFS-LGW. :confused:
Plus - BACON is Purchase on Board catering isn't it?
Book a flight on the BA website and it states:-
Included in your fare Operated by GB Airways
Comfortable 30-31in seat pitch (76-78cm)
Complimentary food and drink to suit the time of day
Reserved seating at check-in
Complimentary newspaper available

Not really - it would just need to pick up some alternative catering for the flight back to lgw. Alternatively, it might just go back to MAN.

As for what is says on the BA site, GB haven't given out free newspapers since February so it's not really up to date, someone should let them know! If you book at ticket for MAN flights after summer, not only does it say "complimentary food etc" it then tells you that the food will be available for purchase- ?!!

[Turroncin]

Both, but mainly MAN it seems - they'll have plenty of time on their hands after summer! :bored:

[Skipness One Echo]

Will they carry BA Connect markings anywhere? Surely not as that would be confusing as airframes are rotated.

[captainyonder]

Skipness One Echo

Reminds me of the days when GB operated their aircraft in their own colours, some with GB Airways on the side and others with GB Leisure.

[Turroncin]

Will they carry BA Connect markings anywhere? Surely not as that would be confusing as airframes are rotated.

No the planes are staying the same so they can be swapped around. It's GB Airways flying as BA Connect in the sense that there's no free food or drink.:)

[Tandemrotor]

So is BA Connect an airline, or simply a brand?

[Turroncin]

Tandemrotor

Well it's an airline, but so is GB. What GB is providing is a product, or more correctly 3 different products (ET, CE and BACON)

[Dash-7 lover]

I've been informed that BA Connect will be on the aircraft somewhere whether it's big or small lettering I'm not sure.

[Frank Poncherello]

Hi All,
Just heard a cracking rumour about 5 GB FO's. Apparently, they independently attended a Virgin selection day, and found the pilot world is smaller than they thought (they all met in reception)!!

Also heard that 12 GB FO's are in the Virgin Holding Pool,........... anyone shed any light on this?!

Think Uncle William may need to release another Memo soon, more contractors?!? Heard one contract pilot turned up drunk, one cant speak English, and not heard much on the others except they are low houred (300hrs or so)!!

Its gonna be a good summer I can tell :ugh:

[Turroncin]

Or FO's with around 100 hours experience. Or FO's who have to fly as pax as they haven't got ID's but oops they're supposed to keep it quiet i.e. disappear from the crew room only to appear at boarding. Or the poor FO who had a few problems on the 321. Happy days!

[Vuelo]

Looks like GB will be serving Salzburg twice a week from Manchester this winter too.

[bleed_air]

Heard a rumour at Gatwick that this might be on the cards...anyone know if this is the case??

[Mooney12]

Well, a captain I was flying with the other day told me Virgin were buying GB....

Not for the airline, but for it's slots.

Funny enough GB's engineering has just transferred from BA to Virgin....

Im not convinced by this rumour however

[Human Factor]

How many GB routes are actually GB routes rather than BA ones? Not sure.

[Oxidant]

How many GB routes are actually GB routes rather than BA ones? Not sure.

Routes & slots are two very different things.

[Human Factor]

Good point. However, you can't operate one without the other and if they're BA routes, they're BA slots.

[747-436]

Slots that GB use are used on BA routes but that doesn't make the slots BA slots!

You could use a slot for whatever you wanted. For example if GB wanted to it could use its slot to run an aircraft to somewhere empty for a month and then the next month use it on a route that it would operate using a BA flight number.
Not that it would but thats just an example.

[StudentInDebt]

The only reason Kevin Hatton was appointed as the MD for GB was to prepare the airline for an eventual take-over by BA. The reason they have moved the engineering to Virgin and will be moving the handling is so that when BA close the Gatwick operation they can dispose of those elements of the operation easily. Bmed will also be taken-over with both sets of pilots and CC joining the common BA seniority list. In this way BA will gain a relatively new collection of A320s/A321s which will all be based at LGW to replace the 737s. BA/GB will announce the aquisition of A330s which will operate the routes currently done on the 777, giving a mixed longhaul/shorthaul Airbus operation out of LGW.

Just gives you the HeeBeeGBs thinking about it doesn't it!! ;)

[HZ123]

Good call but from whence is all the money going to come to fund this plan. Another plan may see BA not wanting the tie up with GB anyway as the monopolistic hold that GB have on its numerous routes is fast fading, even soon to be challenged on the Rock.

[heebeegb]

You're right there SID! How you make me laugh! All good in the East?

[Latman]

BA own just two routes that GB operate, the others and the slots are owned by GB.

[Smokie]

IF BA take over GB and BMED, it will be interesting to see where on the BA seniority list the GB and BMED guys end up :E

There is a Heated debate going on over on the FlyBe/ BACon take over.
It is amazing how self important some guys seem to think they are.

I wonder if the same opinions would be held if they, BACon, were taken over by BA Mainline? ;)

[rhythm method]

I'd demand to be put at the top of the mainline seniority... If we are of such value that we are to be bought out, then show us our worth and plonk us at the top of the list! :}

[Oxidant]

BA own just two routes that GB operate, the others and the slots are owned by GB.

Thank you, you beat me to it.

IF BA take over GB and BMED, it will be interesting to see where on the BA seniority list the GB and BMED guys end up

Get real, right at the bottom (Appropriate really)

I'd demand to be put at the top of the mainline seniority... If we are of such value that we are to be bought out, then show us our worth and plonk us at the top of the list!

Nice to see someone has a sense of humour

The only reason Kevin Hatton was appointed as the MD for GB was to prepare the airline for an eventual take-over by BA. The reason they have moved the engineering to Virgin and will be moving the handling is so that when BA close the Gatwick operation they can dispose of those elements of the operation easily. Bmed will also be taken-over with both sets of pilots and CC joining the common BA seniority list. In this way BA will gain a relatively new collection of A320s/A321s which will all be based at LGW to replace the 737s. BA/GB will announce the aquisition of A330s which will operate the routes currently done on the 777, giving a mixed longhaul/shorthaul Airbus operation out of LGW.

I'll have a gallon of whatever mind bending liquid you are drinking SID.

[fiftyfour]

BA do not 'own' any of the slots or the routes that GB operate. All the slots are owned by GB under grandfather rights rules, although a few of the slots have been temporarily swopped with BA for mutual convenience; eg one GB slot at xxxx hrs swapped for a BA slot at xxxx hrs for a season to ease programming constraints. All routes within Europe are not 'owned' by anybody, and anybody can fly them, although GB cannot fly a route under the BA brand without BA giving permission, which presumably means BA cannot profitably fly it themselves. For the routes outside Europe that do require a licence from the respective countries national governments, GB holds the licence, not BA.
I know that BA pilots don't like it , but the fact is that BA(the company not the BA workforce) sold the right to use the BA brand on certain specific routes for a certain amount of time (until 2010). BA gets the money and GB flies in BA colours.
And, in 2010 BA will have to decide whether it wants a 20 aircraft airline to remain a friend or to become a competitor in its own right or possibly in partneship with one of BA's rivals.

[flyer55]

Actually I think ba own 3 routes from LGW ( Alicante, Malaga & Faro) which are operated on BA's behalf by GB ask any despatcher ! Ba buying Gb will all have to watch and see what happens as we do know WW doesnt like franchises ! So another merger :{

[In trim]

flyer55

Not sure what you mean by "BA own those routes" as all 3 are within the EU, so even if the franchise and BA permissions were to end tomorrow, GB could freely continue to operate them in their own right.

"Ownership" of any routes within the EU is irrelevant, unless of course there are slots involved if the slots themselves were to belong to BA.....but GB hold all their own slots at LGW (putting aside a few they've swapped with BA as described above) so there's no problem.

In trim.

[StudentInDebt]

I'll have a gallon of whatever mind bending liquid you are drinking SID.
Tiger Beer and you won't want a gallon of it because it is very gassey.

You heard it here first remember.... ;)

[Miss Inform]

Whatever the future holds for GB, I believe that it will include rebranding as "Last Choice".

[Oxidant]

Whatever the future holds for GB, I believe that it will include rebranding as "Last Choice".

Sorry, Air 2 bob have got there before you... & it will be "Last Resort" anyway!;)

[heebeegb]

SID, you're not drinking again are you?? Thought you'd given that up on account of it interferring with your film making. Are there any other rumours you've heard? You seem to be the one in the know!!

[StudentInDebt]

The only other rumour I've heard is that GB aren't running any command courses beyond June, apparently BA are going to be seconding their SFOs who are eligible for command to GB so they can gain their command. This is yet another prelude to the takeover, the seniority lists will be combined as they were when Cityflyer was absorbed a few years ago.

[Iva harden]

What a load a twoddle... dont think we at BA have the money to buy any one/thing...........:}

[beauport potato man]

This is great stuff.... particularly the 'merger' story!!!

I suppose we can all guess/second guess GB's plans for the future, and be sure there are changes ahead. But one thing is for certain, KH hasn't been brought in simply to 'steady the ship' for a few more years...

He knows something we don't, and i'm sure we'll all find out soon enough, but until then it's interesting to hear the speculation from gossip and rumour!!

So what happens next?

BPM

[Leonides]

It seems a little strange that during all the cost cutting that GB have at no doubt great expense prematurely terminated all the aircraft insurance's on 31st March, which all relate to Big Airways being being the Mother Company.
So much is happening so fast that you can't but wonder what is going to unfold next, Connect guys didn't see their future change until they read it in the morning papers and we know how much the company enjoy communicating with us! :confused:

[beauport potato man]

Leonides,

don't really understand how GB are going to incur great expense by re-organising their insurance.... are you suggesting the aircraft are uninsured past March 31st, or are just insured elsewhere more expensively???

The airline saved many many thousands changing handling to Aviance and engineering to Virgin recently, perhaps this "re-insurance" is just another part of KH's re-structuring of the airline...

But with GB at the moment, who knows!!!!!!

BPM

[lgw bean flicker]

i travelled through Gib the other day, and when I disembarked, the aircraft steps were painted up in a new livery,.... GIBAIR (like the old logo),.... I asked the ground agent local chap who told me it was a sticker that had gone up last week sometime,..........

If WW did utter those words, they may be his true thoughts, but they were uttered to devalue GB as a company, highlighting the possibility of a take over by mainline. They need the planes to replace the 73's. Pilots may be disposed to the Orange brigade. Equally with the Groud handling, I hear Big Airlines wants to pull shorthaul out of LGW alltoether,... so by losing the contract, they can legitimately sack a load of engineers and loaders.

I have also heard that GB will start again from Gibraltar, GIBAIR, keeping two aircraft (after the sale), and basing them down there. I hear flygib has really got up JG's nose, and is affecting his monopoly on the rock!

Interesting times ahead for you guys

The Bean

[beauport potato man]

interesting stuff, bean.

It's really unsettling being at an airline without a clear and defined future. Hope it all gets sorted out soon.

Why do i get the feeling we'll be the last to know though!!

BPM

[heebeegb]

So much rubbish. Amazing. Only SID knows what's really happening. C'mon SID give us more!!

[transmitforDF]

Don't GB only have a couple of routes across Europe? Im pretty sure its not that much.
ps. Why don't they have their own livery (just wondering):hmm:

[TURIN]

....The airline saved many many thousands changing handling to Aviance and engineering to Virgin recently.....
BPM


Hmmmmmm we'll see! They may get a better quality of service from Virgin but in the long run they will charge em for every rivet. :=

[Oxidant]

ps. Why don't they have their own livery (just wondering):hmm:

If you look in a dictionary for the word "Franchise" you may be enlightened.:rolleyes:
(Then again maybe not!)

[StudentInDebt]

With Virgin doing the engineering now expect to see an increase in ADDs. This isn't a slight on Virgin Engineering, who I am sure do an excellent job maintaining their own aircraft, but the grim reality of outsourced engineering contracts. Whatever the contract was won for the price will have been too low to cover rectifying every ADD as it occurs, instead they may well be defered until the aircraft next visits the hangar.

[take_that]

It makes me laugh how some here live in their own little dream worlds. The chances of BA buying GB or BMed are so remote. As Oxidant points out, these companies operate as a franchise for BA. The reason BA doesn't dervice the destinations with it's own aircraft is cost. BA can't operate these routes and make the profits (if some of them are?) that these two companies can. So to incorporate them in to BA would be a complete 'No Brainer'!

The nearest that you could hope to become as far as inclusion within BA would be for them to buy either the company outright but keep it operating separately e.g. like CitiExpress was. Or to invest a large stake in the company, such as 51%. Either way there would be no merging of seniority lists and no sudden hikes in T & C's. Sorry to burst that bubble but that's reality for you.

Personally though, I think that both of the above are way off the mark from WWs plans. I don't think that BA are in the market for investing in airlines at this time. I think they have much bigger fish to fry such as sorting out all the problems with the ground side of things at Terminal 4 where customers and staff are become disillusioned with the ground handling and vicariously with BA for the hours they spend waiting for bags or tugs etc. The last few flights I've operated have been delayed by 2 hours because of this. Connecting passengers just won't want to fly again with BA if this continues much longer. This inside problem has to be hurting BA, BMed and GB.

[beauport potato man]

"I don't think that BA are in the market for investing in airlines at this time. I think they have much bigger fish to fry"


In November this year BA paid 19 million euros to increase its stake in Iberia from 9% to 10%.

Not much money in the bigger scheme of things, but definately investing in airlines.

BPM

[take_that]

I was talking in the present/future tense not the past BPM.

[beauport potato man]

It was 3 weeks ago - So not that far in the past!!!

But i know what you mean.

I don't think anyone on this forum has any clue what'll become of GB next year. We can only guess....

KH and WW certainly have a plan, but i don't think for a second the Gagerro's will be happy to stand around and watch their little airline (one of the oldest around) fall down the toilet.

[take_that]

Agreed. Something will happen for sure. GB is a good going concern. There is no reason why someone would not wish to invest/merge or take over the company and thats providing the current board don't wish to continue in the driving seat. Interesting times ahead but definitely not doom and gloom by any stretch of the imagination. Likewise, nothing to say that any future plans will be made public in the next couple of months. Until the ink is dry and the company has everything in place, I think it will continue to be rumours abound for the next couple of months at least.

[transmitforDF]

If you look in a dictionary for the word "Franchise" you may be enlightened.:rolleyes:
(Then again maybe not!)


ohhhhhhhhhhhhh right i see thanks :O

[Oxidant]

Interesting times ahead but definitely not doom and gloom by any stretch of the imagination.

HMM, seem to remember similar comments just before Big Airways "took over" Dan.:hmm:

[phantom menace]

BPM,
A plan, a cunning plan......Bugger !!!!!!!! I think the great escape is about to start. It's time to dust off that CV.

[Frank Poncherello]

Too late!! I know 9 Skippers and 12 FOs actively looking already,.........


Besides, with a 6 month waiting list for an Orange interview, its no wonder people are preparing to jump ship

FP

[beauport potato man]

Too late!! I know 9 Skippers and 12 FOs actively looking already,.........

FP

WOW! i might get off the last page of the seniority now.....

[Oxidant]

BPM,
A plan, a cunning plan......Bugger !!!!!!!! I think the great escape is about to start.
It is with great regret that the escape committee has to announce that the escape has been cancelled..TFN..
DW has got stuck in the tunnel:D :D

[Bootylicious]

"The nearest that you could hope to become as far as inclusion within BA would be for them to buy either the company outright but keep it operating separately e.g. like CitiExpress was. Or to invest a large stake in the company, such as 51%. Either way there would be no merging of seniority lists and no sudden hikes in T & C's. Sorry to burst that bubble but that's reality for you."

Ummmm, actually most of us definitely don't want to be bought by BA. NO thanks!
Would much rather be bought by Virgin!

[StudentInDebt]

Ummmm, actually most of us definitely don't want to be bought by BA. NO thanks!
Would much rather be bought by Virgin!

That's a rather emphatic NO Bootylicious, why?

[heebeegb]

Most of us!!!! Don't include me in that. I think you'll find most of us would rather stay the way we are.

[seymour fanny]

BA/Virgin tie up may be the only option, there is no way GB can stay as they are. Only 15 aeroplanes and EZY and the other locos hammering them on all their core routes out of LGW, things have to change.

If it wasn't for the two a/c out of LHR with the high club loads making big money they might not be around now. The figures last year were massaged to only show a 5 million loss but it was much worse.

The pilots have just voted 90% in favour of industrial action over JH so that could be the final nail etc.

[thebeehive]

The pilots have just voted 90% in favour of industrial action over JH so that could be the final nail etc.

JH? Not Jubilee House surely?

[Rumours everywhere]

I'm another one that couldn't imagine anything worse than working for BA, and having to fly with their stuck-up, egotistical idiots they call pilots.
Also... for your information, GB has NOT ONE route which is BA's. ALL the routes which GB flies that require route licences are, and always have been, GB's own since before the franchise started.
As for us ending up with more ADD's by going over to VS engineering... you do make me laugh. Our contract with BA had endless problems... hours of delays in releasing aircraft, no spares, and engineers (some at least) that just couldn't be bothered. It maybe early days with VS, but my god... how different they are!
Just like BA loading... 2 hours to turn round a 320... what a joke. The work to rule really worked didn't it! Off we go to Aviance... always loaded, and closed up early.
Everything we hear about BA is worrying... but not for us... it is YOU that should be worried!

[StudentInDebt]

I'm another one that couldn't imagine anything worse than working for BA, and having to fly with their stuck-up, egotistical idiots they call pilots.
Now, now. This is no place for willy-waving in public, you might find yourself exposed with nothing to cover your ass :) sorry, couldn't resist - telegrams are still slow to reach us in the British East India Company
As for us ending up with more ADD's by going over to VS engineering... you do make me laugh
We aim to please. As you point out, it is early days and yes BA engineering had it's issues for GB. All I have said is this utopia will change in the future as the Virgin management tighten the screws (sic) on the contract costs.
Off we go to Aviance... always loaded, and closed up early.
Again early days and no, BA Handling are not perfect. You've had 2 months(?) of handling from Aviance at the beginning of the winter season, even Circusair can manage to get the right number of people/steps/equipment at this time of year. It is the middle of the summer 0300 arrival you want to look forward to.
ALL the routes which GB flies that require route licences are, and always have been, GB's own since before the franchise started.
All of them? Licences for LGW to SSH and DLM, EMA and BRS to TFS were all in place before the franchise started? I'm not saying they were ever BAs but I'm surprised that GB applied to operate these routes before the franchise started.

[beauport potato man]

Days after the Jubilee House deadline, along with a 90% 'against' vote from the (BALPA registered) pilots for moving there... and still not a word from the company....

We ALL know there is a plan afoot.

Not only with the withdrawal of BA engineering and BA handling at LGW, heavy rumour surrounding the franchise, but also i hear that GB will be using CTC for their airbus type ratings next year instead of BA..... (true / not true???)

I hope that the company (Bland & GB) let their loyal personnel know soon what the plan is.

I know that most the people here are fairly negative about the future of GB, but i reckon there could be a great future for the airline, given the right direction. I hope there is.

Merry xmas everyone

BPM

[Rumours everywhere]

Licences for LGW to SSH and DLM, EMA and BRS to TFS were all in place before the franchise started? I'm not saying they were ever BAs but I'm surprised that GB applied to operate these routes before the franchise started.I never said that they were in place before the franchise started... of course they weren't. However, GB still remains an Independent Airline, and therefore applies for routes itself with Government Authorities... The only involvement that BA ever has is approving GB to operate it 'as BA'.
Hi all,
have the A320/321 used on BA connect services from MAN a different seat config. to those operating with Club Europe or are they all in Y156 (A320) and Y189 (A321)?GB uses the same aircraft, whatever the base, but are just rotated back to LGW for main maintenance. The BACon flights have the converter seats in all Economy, rather than a mix of Club and Economy. The seating on most of them is being changed this winter though (thinner seats) to give an extra row.

[Iva harden]

BA/Virgin tie up may be the only option, there is no way GB can stay as they are. Only 15 aeroplanes and EZY and the other locos hammering them on all their core routes out of LGW, things have to change.

If it wasn't for the two a/c out of LHR with the high club loads making big money they might not be around now. The figures last year were massaged to only show a 5 million loss but it was much worse.

The pilots have just voted 90% in favour of industrial action over JH so that could be the final nail etc.


I believe GB to be a private company... how would you know if figures were massaged unless you are the accountant....me thinks you are talking from the place the sun dont shine..... sunshine !!.....:} But interesting about your ballot.

[Frank Poncherello]

JH signed and sealed today peeps. Drivers been told their last day is 28th Feb, and the official move is on March 1st. All done and dusted. It appears, despite the 90% to 10% margin in favour of industrial action, that the company has called the shots, and will now wait to see if the 90% stand by their word and go on strike if BALPA orders it. I hope, whatever happens, that it doesnt affect the Xmas travel plans of our loyal customers.

Their is something in the pipeline,.... something big,.... and will become news before March,... things are gonna change big style.....

I think JG is jumping ship back to the motherland,.... to start all again

FP

[phantom menace]

After all it is the Season of goodwill....to all.....

Keep the faith.:ok:

[flyer55]

Wonder if they could be merging into the Gatwick Fleet ? If they were leaving BA Franchise why would they move into Jubilee House ? If they are going to become a Virgin Franchise wouldnt they move into Concorde house at South Terminal where Virgin are based !

[beauport potato man]

If they are going to become a Virgin Franchise wouldnt they move into Concorde house at South Terminal where Virgin are based !

Sounds sensible but GB have been a BA franchise for years without sharing any office space with them. Guess they wouldn't need to share anything with VS either.

Don't think that's gonna happen though.

[heebeegb]

Absolutely no chance!! C'mon guys!!!

[Frank Poncherello]

Every rumour I hear points at a take over from BA,.... common knowledge within BA apparently,.............. GB keeping the AOC, and 2 aircraft and operating from GIB as GibAir like the old days,....

All signed and sealed for March,... mark my words!

FP

[Rumours everywhere]

Must be why the a/c steps in Gib have been rebranded from GB Airways then...
How depressing... not only going to have to stand at Z car park waiting for a bus, but having to work for BA too.
At least I can look forward to jumping in on the BA seniority list... after all we do fly the same aircraft in the same livery already :}

[beauport potato man]

At least I can look forward to jumping in on the BA seniority list... after all we do fly the same aircraft in the same livery already :}

Can't wait to see the reaction to that!! I know it was tongue in cheek....

True about the a/c steps in Gib, but not on GB Airways current name and livery but GibAir livery of old.

Perhpas they had a spare sticker lying around. Or perhaps the company's splitting between Gib and LGW and they still haven't told us.

BPM

[heebeegb]

No. completely different outfit. Remember GB routes out of GIB are traditional routes that have nothing to do with the franchise, so there is every chance that we may revert to a couple of GB Airways liveried aircraft to operate them - doesn't affect the franchise running routes from LGW,LHR,MAN,EMA and BRS. Rumour is of a stronger tie with BA (in whatever form!) from LGW with more aircraft - i hear 22.

[Iva harden]

Can't wait to see the reaction to that!! I know it was tongue in cheek....

True about the a/c steps in Gib, but not on GB Airways current name and livery but GibAir livery of old.

Perhpas they had a spare sticker lying around. Or perhaps the company's splitting between Gib and LGW and they still haven't told us.

BPM
BPM.... sounds like you are well informed GBite.....are you staying or moving to another not so distant LGW operator.....:}

[flyer55]

Remember, both lots of crew have to be ballotted on it if it is likely to be a takeover and GB joining into The Gatwick fleet ! If GB crew know something they maybe a good idea to share !!

[Rumours everywhere]

Thought it was more like the other way round... BA Gatwick joining the GB Gatwick fleet!
And why would you need a ballot? I'm sure you haven't ballotted over the sale of BACon!

[beauport potato man]

BPM.... sounds like you are well informed GBite.....are you staying or moving to another not so distant LGW operator.....:}

certainly likely.... but not the orange one you may be hinting at!!

[flyer55]

Well i think it will be the other way but crew will be ballotted at GB if it was a Takeover/ Merger thats what happened at Cityflyer ! What is the latest on this !

[Rumours everywhere]

Geez... another ballot paper... we're getting good at these!

[lgw bean flicker]

The company knows exactly what the pilots think,...... they say the management are a blinkered RAF flying club, but they aint stupid,....

Its a shame going down the ballot route is so long winded,.....

Personally I think the big announcement will come out before the result of the ballot is known,.... and then you guys will be clamouring for what you can get,.... (ie Jubilee House will slip into insignificance relative to the big announcement),.........

Good luck to y'all,.........

The Bean

[beauport potato man]

beanflicker

...sounds like you know roughly what the announcement is!!!

Doesn't sound good, yr post suggests job cuts etc - so any chance you can let us know to stop some unnecessary 'clamouring'?

BPM

[radarman]

Aircraft steps at LXGB repainted due to politics following the Cordoba agreement. Now the airport is 'joint use', it was deemed not acceptable to have the steps painted in the colours of one of the airlines (GB Airways). It would have upset the delicate sensibilities of the Spanish.

[ops-away]

Seems the press down in GIB have got hold of this story - and used this forum for its quotes!! (q.v. rumour mill!). www.panorama.gi (http://www.panorama.gi), click thru to "last weeks headlines" (21st Dec). Two different stories, one about pilots threatening action and the other about the future of GB.. Also the front page of the printed newspaper on 21st Dec was entirely dedicated to this story. Full page pic of a GB 320 departing in front of the rock and the headline "Changes in the air as GB Airways pilots threaten strike".

Also heard from a couple of drivers (who are being laid off) the company offered them the basic one week for every complete year as redundancy - or two weeks per year if they sign their life away and promise not to go to an industrial tribunal! Shallow or scared?! :D

[Frank Poncherello]

What a load of drivel!! almost as much as what came out of JG's mouth (apparently),...... who was quoted as saying that the rebrand of the steps in LXGB was nothing to do with local politics, but a rebranding of the Ground Services, into a separate company, to promote and market them separately.

Is he really that stupid to think that just because a set of steps is painted a certain way, that Iberia do not know who they are paying their Handling charges to?!

C'mon guys,... and gals! Wake up and smell the Cawfee,.... this is rebranding of the whole Gib operation,........ 2 planes down there pretty soon,........ (notice how the Summer schedule is pretty vague and nothing is being mentioned about that anywhere),....... I know a memo came out outlining the proposed schedule for the Summer,...... can anyone do any sums to work out if it seems logical relative to the proposed number of planes at LGW (it might give a hint as to whether one or two planes will disappear South for a while),.....

Just a thought

FP

[Major Cleve Saville]

Heard from a reliable source that easyJet are determined to eliminate/obliterate GB by chasing them off their profitable destinations,
Already happened to a greater or lesser extent on AGP FAO VLC ALC LEI MJV PMI RAK and now CMN (via MAD) etc etc. They know BA just cannot compete so no GB presence on these routes means no BA competition as well as one competitor (with any marketing clout) less.

If just two airframes are retained for 'GibAir' at GIB who will fly them?

I seem to remember operating B737-200s for a Gibraltar based company, great fun (the joys of Bar Jimmy, the Picadilly and the Rock Hotel) , however the competition was Air Europe and then Dan-Air. JG seniors proud boast was he had seen off 17 competitors and there was money in the bank to see off more. In those days there was no airport agreement, no FlyGib, no Iberia and no easyJet snapping at the heels.

If the Gaggeros think that they will save face in the Gibraltar Chamber of Commerce by once again being the 'local airline' I hope they are prepared to dig deep to fund it.

I am also sure competition in ground handling would impact a nice little revenue stream for our Gibraltarian benefactors!!

I agree it is time to wake up and sniff the cawfee I can't help thinking that the owners of GB and its employees are blind to the realities of commercial life if they think anything can be salvaged from the wreckage of the Johnny Vegas years.

If the airline does fail/significantly downsize following industrial action or the threat there-of guess who will be blamed for the airlines demise!!

[egnxema]

A couple of GB/EMA questions...

How is he TFS/EMA/TFS route ding, from GB's persepective?

With BACON going to FlyBE soon, what is the obboard product going to be on the EMA route?

Any GBers heard about any future EMA routes?

Thanks

[lotuselanse]

.....So the airbus 320's are having thin seats fitted,(same as the new BA A321's) making way for TWO extra rows, Club E. seat pitch reduced to 33" with a max number of seats 20 (four rows).....airbus 321's even more seats squeezed in, max number of seats in Club 25 (five rows) - except the Heathrow a/c...... oh, and the wet lease of an Excel 737-800 configured for 189.... (same as Ryan) coming in May and G-TTOA back to the lease co....
We had enough issues last summer with scruffy G-BUSJ (BA 320)
what is going on?...

[flyer55]

We will all have to wait and see !

[heebeegb]

beanflicker
...sounds like you know roughly what the announcement is!!!
Doesn't sound good, yr post suggests job cuts etc - so any chance you can let us know to stop some unnecessary 'clamouring'?
BPM

Do you really think any announcement will come through pprune? Just chill - if there is to be one, we'll hear when we hear!

[beauport potato man]

Do you really think any announcement will come through pprune? Just chill - if there is to be one, we'll hear when we hear!

I'm not stupid - i know nothing will come through pprune, just was interested to hear what they knew.

Thanks though, i'll chill now.

[bmibaby.com]

What are the chances of GB Airways going it alone without British Airways, or just working with BA as a codeshare partner and reverting to using the GB Airways brand? They have an excellent niche route network as mentioned in another post across the Med basin and offer a service standard which in my experience has often surpassed mainline British Airways - with routes from MAN & the regions no longer fitting in with BA's strategy.

[Cyrano]

ATI is reporting that BMed is in discussion for the sale of a majority stake to a group of investors including a Lebanese firm (M1 Group) for STG30m, with the expectation that a proposal will be put to the existing BMed shareholders this month.

IIRC the standard BA franchise agreements provide for the franchise to lapse in the event that there's a change of control of the franchisee - I imagine there are some interesting discussions around that point at the moment, since BMed's value to an investor is very linked to its BA franchise (I'm not saying that it's got no value on its own - clearly it does, in terms of slots, fleet, etc., but losing the franchise would hit its revenue and hence the value of the firm). Whatever the current Waterside view on franchises, I'm not sure, pragmatically speaking, that BA mainline would be in a position to replace BMed in the short term, so I could imagine BA choosing not to terminate the franchise despite the change of control.

Any thoughts?
C.

[Rainboe]

I think it would be naive to assume that BA has not been aware of every step of the progress on potential change of ownership of one of its franchisees. It has all the control over the situation it could want. There has been some direction recently on its attitude to franchises, and I would think it is happy to let nature take its course. But it plays its cards very close to its chest. We can do nothing but speculate.

[Lucifer]

Looks like they are safe for the time being.

Daily Telegraph:

The Mikati family is poised to invest approximately GBP 30m (EUR 44m) to rescue British Mediterranean Airways (BMED), the UK-based airline, the Daily Telegraph reported.
The Mikati family, from Lebanon, have agreed a GBP 3m (EUR 4.4m) bridging loan for the loss-making airline, and will later this month invest approximately GBP 27m (EUR 40m) into the company.
BMED's board yesterday signed an agreement regarding the deal, the report continued. The family of Wafic Said, the Syrian private investor, controls close to 50% of BMED shares, the report said. However, existing investors will be left with very little after the refinancing, which will repay a substantial amount of the GBP 8m (EUR 11.8m) loaned to BMED by Said. One unspecified source quoted in the report said that BMED has become a problem for Said.

[Yak97]

So if Bmed are owned by a combination of Mikati (Lebanese) & Said (Syrian) how will they get on with JAR-OPS / EU legislation regarding majority EU ownership? (Article 4.2 of the Council Licensing Regulation).

[Dan Air 87]

I don't quite understand this. Why is this good news for BMed???

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I think they mean it is good news for BMED because they are running out of money, you can not keep losing money unless you are an airline in the USA.
I think the figures in the Telegraph was £10 million last year and £20 million this year, l am talking loss.
The article said that the ownership will have to be worked out so that the Airline stays British, due legislation.:uhoh:

[aeulad]

In the papers today, investor to invest 30 million in BMED. Good news for all. The franchise is safe, and has been for a long time.

Regards

Mike

[EI-BUD]

see link below
http://www.uk-airport-news.info/heathrow-airport-news-040107b.htm

[Lucifer]

Is this website full of bitter idiots like a123? I don't know why I bother posting something that I would have thought would have been of great interest to those working there, as their future is assured when the airline's future had been in question.

As noted, the foreign ownership question would have to be addressed somehow - it is currently within the rules, and I presume that going forward the acquirers have thought about how to structure it.

[bacardi walla]

I think they mean it is good news for BMED because they are running out of money, you can not keep losing money unless you are an airline in the USA.

How about Italy :confused:

[BMEDbus]

This is all good news for BMED, after a hard year from rising fuel costs and the Beirut closure.

We have been told to expect a few changes, perhaps adding cargo a/c to the fleet and more new routes to SE Asia. Hopefully the money will be used wisely and our new routes will help the airline to return to profit next year.

It’s a great company to work for and nice people to work with, including the ex RAF types!

Here's to the future :ok:

[flyer55]

But will it still remain a BA franchise !

[flyer55]

Any news on what is happening at GB Airways and their future ?

[flyer55]

Any news on the status on GB Airways and their future as a franchise for BA?

[memphisbelle]

GB Airways to take over all short-haul operations from BA at LGW to be phased in commencing March 2007. 9 new aircraft and big recruitment drive for new pilots to take on all this extra work.

[Ivor Fynn]

Is this just rumour or from a good source? If true when can we expect an official announcement?

Ivor

[memphisbelle]

Announcement coming soon. New summer timetable reflects this already.:ok:

[newbagr]

athis is a bog joke!!!!!hahaha well if that is true then why did ba recruit so many new entrants????there is no way that all the shortaul operation will be handed to GB.Could they cope anyway? And how does the summer timetable reflect this???

[tristar500]

Interesting to read a newspaper article yesterday (financial page well known nationwide publication - not the SUN...) that BMED are being lined up by a group of Lebanese business men for a takeover?

Claims that BMED losing cash very quiclky - more so since the troubles in Beirut last year, and that a group of local business men are planning a takeover...

I know that WW wants out of ALL franchise deals so maybe this story isnt too far off the mark.

[brighton_rocks]

Announcement coming soon. New summer timetable reflects this already.:ok:

Utter bol****s unless you can provide proof as the timetable clearly states BA not "operated by GB Airways" :suspect: :rolleyes:

[EI-BUD]

BA are bound to be finding the going tough at LGW. There always were questions raised about the performance of the LGW operation. EZY have a great set up there.

But if BA give up there LGW business its a very sad day. Willie Walsh had led the shaping up of EI to enable it to compete against FR at DUB. Now I am not suggesting BA should be low cost but BA should get there costs in order on short haul and make the LGW business be robust and competitive.

Alot of routes esp Long haul are moving to LHR. A friend of mine who works at LGW said that she feels that its only a matter of time until BA LGW no more and she said she will be at LHR!!!

BA is enjoys the benefits of its presence at LHR, I wonder will LHR be just a attractive in 15 years as the other London airports grow and LHR continues to get congested both by road and air????

In my view BA needs to be robust enough to take on its rivals on short haul and make a profit on same, namely on LGW routes.

I remember the sad day that Dan Air went under, it was very sad, as i really like them. I would be horrible to see BA leave LGW too , although the brand would still be there in franchise , the BA presence would not.

[heebeegb]

I really don't know. What do you reckon flapjack? I hear a new story every day. Best bet is to wait and see what actually happens rather than speculate. I've been as guilty as anyone of that, but i really am not sure which way it will go.
Think I'll just sit and wait to hear now.

[Off Stand]

There is no room at LHR for anymor long haul routes. As previously posted, none of the US routes can go anywhere at the moment.

[flyer55]

Ivor good point and if it is true when they going to announce it and what going to happen to all 1300 (approx ) BA LGW Crew and all those flight crew on 737's! I personally think its a rumour from galley fm !! But you never know !

[EI-BUD]

There is no room at LHR for anymor long haul routes. As previously posted, none of the US routes can go anywhere at the moment.

Completely agree with you Off Stand, as it stands the US routes can not move but over the last few years many Caribean and Long Haul flights have been transferred, and it remains to be seen what will become of Willie Walshs request for mixed mode operations at LHR???
He forsees an increase in movements.

[aeulad]

Just on the subject of BMED and the franchise. I don't know who started this tosh about BA not wanting franchises. With BMED, that is certainly not the case, although I cannot speak for GB. Our company chief exec recently stated at a company forum that WW was happy with the KJ franchise agreement.

Regards

Mike

[Park Brake Released]

I posted a while ago asking if anyone knew any more than I did regarding GB ending it's franchise position with BA, and whether BMed might follow.

I appologised at the time if these rumours upset some people who commented on my posts.

Well it now seems that BMed have moved first. - A vast improvement for the flightdeck (providing they move to BMI mainline Ts & Cs). Good luck to all involved.

I personally have heard no further info on GB and am just wondering if anyone else has?

Virgin doing GB engineering - maybe a Virgin Sun reappearance? - BMI moving into Gatwick? - Can't be Flybe this time?

[flyer55]

Has gone very quite !

[Maz11]

Who knows whats gonna happen with us, just too many rumours going around bout this.

We believe something big is going to happen in March, as for what, thats what we're all guessing about.

[Iva harden]

From what I hear from mates at GB the company is making money and performing ok.....still rumours about something big in March, nobody seems to know what...........:}

[airhumberside]

Do GB own their LHR slots?

[flyer55]

Will be interesting to see what happens and also what happens with the routes BMED are doing and what will happen to them ! Will BMI keep some of the routes and will BA keep some as well !

[Barts]

Recieved info today that BA and GB have a new agreement on ground operations lasting up until April 2008.
The only area excluded is aircaft loading which will continue with Aviance.

That date marks another important moment,( or should I say, the most important moment, so we keep being brainwashed with) in that T5 opens for business!
What a coincidence, not a 12 month contract or 2 year one, a contract of exactly 14 months. Thats 419 days 7 hours and 9 minutes from this post.

So does that mean WW is giving gatwick one more year to meet the SHIPIG targets? Or is Waterworld looking to snatch the most profitable longhaul routes and dump SH gatwick on GB doorstep?

Lets face it we can read into so much but none of us have any idea what the future brings for both BA LGW or GB.

Lets hope its nothing like whats happened in the regions.

[flyer55]

Well Gatwick Fleet is making money , so why give it all to GB at LGW ? What about the crew on Gatwick Fleet? Im sure alot of crew dont want to work for a Franchise and give up a Mainline Contract !

[Dash-7 lover]

Flyer 55 - I keep reading that BA LGW is making money but why do I hear on a monthly basis that it isn't and from one source or another that it's next for the chop? When people say it's making money does that include GB's operation?

[flyer55]

The Gatwick Fleet is making money and has been for the last few months and does not include GB as it is a franchise where as Gatwick Fleet is a mainline fleet .

[False Capture]

Why did GB open a base at MAN towards the end of 2005? Do the GB directors want to break away from the BA franchise? Alternatively, do they think BA doesn't want to renew the franchise with GB?

At the end of the day GB are securing new markets in case they are no longer a franchise partner.

The difference between GB and BMed is that BMed had to be rescued by BMI whilst GB will probably survive on it's own due to a bit of foresight by its directors.

[TheGorrilla]

I heard it was WW that wanted to end the GB franchise. Following a sour grapes meeting with GB he reportedly said "we'll see how you lot manage on your own".

:hmm:

[Major Cleve Saville]

Foresight/GB Directors some mishtake shurely? Aren't we loosing money. New routes - act of desperation they will never make money. Manchester base: 4 years too late - Monarch/Jet2 took the market.

GB: the last franchise, loosing money - all looking good. Maybe 'Britsh Midland Airways' will buy them too. That'l please Slippery Bill!!!

[Railgun]

It all depends who you speak to as to if gatwick is making money. The staff think it is then management say it is not.

[IB4138]

So, GB's site no longer directs you straight to BA's.

Similar layout and colour to Virgin, that is the only common factor and there are many other sites with a similar layout.

The former event may be more telling.

[TartinTon]

Nothing new here apart from a new design of the website.
GB Airways have never redirected you to the BA site apart from booking
and schedules. The only difference is now you have a fastbook panel on
the GB site instead of being sent straight to the BA homepage.

[memphisbelle]

News just out that GB to give BA their slots at LHR in return for all the work at LGW. Feel sorry for the BA guys who'll have to move to LHR.:rolleyes:

[Skipness One Echo]

30+ 737s worth of crews moving to ( jolly busy ) Heathrow.
Is that right? Surely some mistake.

[thebeehive]

Way too much would be moving to LHR in return for what LGW would get with such an agreement.

I think someone enjoys fishing :=

[Frank Poncherello]

I've heard the same, from numerous numerous sources, and I left the company a year ago!!

Could they move some Airbus down from LHR to LGW to help the transition? Or would BA skippers fly GB planes if there is a shortfall of skippers?

Interesting times ahead for ya's,..........

Still cant book a Gib-Madrid flight yet. I hear nightstops starting in May, with a base opening in Sept. FlyGib will only exist on paper by the year end,.... they can get an AOC but no aircraft!!

[memphisbelle]

I think you'll find BA have about a dozen 737's at LGW. GB have ordered anither 9 A320's to take on this work.:ok:

[BCALBOY]

There are c 33 737-300/400/500s @ LGW.

[yachtno1]

I don't think BA LGW crew are on a mainline contract !:eek:

[yachtno1]

BA Have 5 300 series 9 500 series and 18 436 series makes 32 i think ..:confused:

[Pizzaro]

Have they got any further plans for Manchester?

[flyer55]

BA lgw crew are on a BA PLC mainline contract as it includes NSP !

[memphisbelle]

I'm talking about the amount of 737's actually BASED there! Comes from BA engineers themselves. There would be nowhere to park these antiquated aircraft at LGW. Sorry guys, face up to reality...... BA shorthaul at LGW is history.:ok:

[BCALBOY]

Given strong views expressed (and negative ones at that ) abt BA SHL @ LGW ,I have to say I am really surprised @ apparent lack of knowledge ,Memphisbelle appears to have of BA's Operation @ LGW !

BA do have 33 737s dedicated and based @ LGW...10 x 735s,5 X 733s and 19 734s. They don-t op anywhere else other than to/from LGW.

IF you get hold of a BA Timetable ( hard these days ) or look at the T/table on BA.com you can work this out yrself.

11 a/c nightstop away fm base every night @ ABZ,EDI,GLA,MAN,JER,NCL AMS, BLQ ,GVA,MRS,and TLS.These operate the 1st flight of the day fm
these cities to LGW. It takes a further 16 or 17 a/c to op the 1st wavw of
departurers fm LGW between 0625 and 0800 in the morning.
Add in a/c on maintainence and standbys and you-ve got yr 33 a/c.

Given that the operation is nearly three times as big as you seemed to think , I think this undermines yr authority to express some of the views you do . Seems like based on emotion rather than facts.

I don-t know who the BA engineers are who told you there are only 12 a/c based @ LGW- they are either giving you duff gen or they can-t count ! :)

[memphisbelle]

Sorry guys, I'm only going on what the engineers said. GB definitely getting 9 more aircraft and the deal with BA to be announced on March 1st.:ok:

[heebeegb]

Are those 9 new aircraft A380's Memphis?

[Man Flex]

Nine additional aircraft, at say a modest five crews per aircraft, would mean an additonal forty five crews or ninety pilots!

If it is to be announced on 1st March then when will this massive (recruitment) expansion begin? Or has a deal been struck that will allow BA (airbus) crews to be temporarily seconded to GB.

Probably.

[flyer55]

Thats interesting as havent heard that from engineers but have heard GB want to do their own thing. Regarding SH @lgw GB cannot operate on a Mainline route their is a clause between the pilots for BA (balpa) and BA . The other thing is ba wouldnt give up all those slots at LGW if they did easyjet would go head to head with lhr on routes !

Interesting though that GB handling contract with BA (new contract) only 14months until April 2008

[Rumours everywhere]

Errr... let's go a couple of years back.
How do you think Easy got so big, so quickly at LGW??
Nothing to do with BA chucking in a load of slots back into the pot when most of the longhaul disappeared?? Not passing them to GB for example to help protect LHR and LGW from Easy.
From what I am hearing... longhaul and domestic LGW will remain. Both crewed from elsewhere. Alot of the remaining routes will be completely dumped, and a select few will be taken over by GB. Probably why they have just recruited 40+ new F/O's.
Don't be nieve and think just because you are 'mainline' (after all the years of LHR completely disowning you) that you will have any protection. That would be incredibly short sighted. Things are changing - even at mainline!

[yachtno1]

Memphis deffo 33 737's based at LGW. We do have enough space for them !:p

[lotuselanse]

Lets not forget that a lot of the 737's are due to be returned to the leasing co's next year...around the time of T5. Some of them will be 20 years old!! (i.e 737-300 G-LGTI) to name but one... and there are NOT a lot of spare new(er) aircraft around.... even to replace the A320-100's that B.A mainline are removing from service at LHR.....so it is no wonder that we are making educated guesses about the shape of LGW next year.:bored:

[flyer55]

Their is nothing to sayy that BA wont extend the leases on those old 737 3oo & 5oo series aircraft !

[tristar500]

Brace, Brace, Brace...

A330 for LGW Longhaul and A319 for LGW short-haul incl domestic... Maybe giving the whole LGW operation to GB, maybe not...

(Makes a bit of sence since T5 LHR is going to be 'containerised for all luggage' - A319s are not containerised)

Cabin crew already 'Mid-fleet' at LGW and the flightdeck would be next, flying both types - not entirely impossible

GB Airways will 'inherit' A319s from 'up the road' LHR, and BA Mainline will take GBs A320s and position them at LHR :ok:

I have heard this line of thought from various people, from LHR and LGW both ground and aircrew alike...

Lets see what 01MAR GB announcement brings :O

[lotuselanse]

A bit like GB airways extended the lease on G-TTOA???!!! I don't think so.... BA doesn't generally keep a/c past 20 years, the interiors of the 737's are scruffy and are having only minimal work.... lets remember, it's the leasing company that owns the aircraft. NOT BA.!!! any lease extension would need agreement from BOTH sides (see G -TTOA as above, SIX YEARS or NOWT!!) Nice thought about the A319 fleet, but have a look at the MTOW / RANGE, how does that fit for SSH, Canaries?? Interesting that BA have placed an order for 4 more A320's... but are retiring 5 (G-Bus*) A320-100's and the remaining Caledonian batch that are A320-200's are also approaching twenty years old... So if we do our sums, that's 10 A320's; 33 737's and probably 12 767's all for the scrap yard in the next few years... Thats a LOT of Metal to replace.:bored:

[HZ123]

LHR already purchased many 1000 ;s of A319 bins as we speak but good rumour anyway. At present BA has trouble raising credit for a Shorts 330 let an A330.

[flyer55]

Cant see it happening regarding the Airbus 330's which was rulled out in the recent announcement about the order for 4 777 200 ers. BA do own some of their 737's the 436 (400) and the rest are lease hold .

Who knows what is going to be announced on 1st March ( if the announcement happens)

Their is even rumours going round that BA LGW getting 757's or 321's from LHR for the summer so you never know !!

[merlinxx]

Gettings a wing from the 8th AAF BG south of the river

[yachtno1]

Sorry Merlin can you explain that last statement ! :)

[Ivor Fynn]

The announcement won't happen on the 1st, bad news will only be announced on a Friday so the 2nd it is!!:ugh: :ugh:

Ivor

[MaxAOB]

I reckon this 'big announcement' talk is all blox. If there is a 'big announcement' this week i'll eat my tea! :zzz:

[Man Flex]

Jubilee House, new rostering system (check-in, check-out, roster changes now automated - welcome to the 21st century) and now a switch from the BA flight planning system to Jeppensen!
As long as there isn't any announcement about why all these changes are necessary so immediately (ie this month) there will always be speculation.
Morale is at an all time low. The management think the pilots are bluffing on a Royal Flush...

[yachtno1]

When is the move to JBH due Manflex?

[Man Flex]

Now scheduled for 12th March - Oh joy.

[yachtno1]

It'll be a fair treck up from X or Z must add a half hour to the report times :eek: