View Full Version : SYD alternates

27th Jun 2007, 12:15
What would be a good widebody alternate for SYD, e.g. A330/B767? MEL & BSN are obvious but can Canberra be used, and is Richmond available to civvies? What do QF do, as carrying MEL/BSN fuel all the time must be expensive.

Capt Fathom
27th Jun 2007, 13:03
Australian operators don't carry alternates as a matter of course.

If the weather is fine, alternate airport required only if the weather is below the Alternate Weather Criteria? (400ft cloud base / 2km vis, something like that)

Probably Brisbane, Melbourne, Adelaide for widebodies. Canberra, and maybe Williamtown for 737's, A320's, B767's etc.

Richmond, Nowra, East Sale plus all the above available for Emergencies.

27th Jun 2007, 13:39
We (EK) are required to carry alternates. Our policy on SYD is to carry Canberra as a "Technical" alternate (i.e, if SYD weather is good, so we don't expect to have to use it), or MEL/BNE if the SYD weather is crook.

Yusef Danet
27th Jun 2007, 14:02
Canberra's runway has recently been extended and upgraded, and is suitable for 747s. Generally if a weather alternate is required, intl flights use Mel or Bne which have better pax handling capabilities. Richmond is not used, although RAAF Williamtown, which serves Newcastle, 150km north of Sydney, is a possibility, and sees daily 737s and A320s

Feather #3
27th Jun 2007, 15:19
BSN?? Sounds great given the mileage involved with everything else....where is it??

G'day ;)

27th Jun 2007, 16:06
Busselton. Long way to go, though. You may as well use Perth.

27th Jun 2007, 17:05
Thanks very much for the sensible answers guys

27th Jun 2007, 21:55
Be warned, nominating mil or civ/mil airfields without thorough research is asking for trouble.

Like This - Do That
28th Jun 2007, 04:07
Be warned, nominating mil or civ/mil airfields without thorough research is asking for trouble.
Yes ... you'll need PPR ... that'll force the duty officer to put down his or her cuppa and biccies. Good lord, the humanity!

28th Jun 2007, 06:35
Richmond, Nowra, East Sale plus all the above available for EmergenciesThe operative words being "for emergencies." Short of a time-critical emergency, the RAAF and Navy would not be welcoming.

Where something really needs to be done is Perth. I suspect the LCNs at Pearce and Gin Gin are far too small to take a 777/747 without it causing a lot of damage to the runways and taxiways, so either of these fields could only be considered as a last ditch alternate in a very time-critical situation.

However, given the cost of fuel these days (and the cost of carrying it), the sums must surely add up by now to it being worthwhile for all the major users of Perth to throw in some money towards extending KAL by 500 metres and sticking in an ILS there. Learmonth and Adelaide are a very long way away, and I'd hate to think what it costs the users of Perth per annum to carry Adelaide as an alternate, as can sometimes be the case on days when the island destination option isn't do-able.

man on the ground
29th Jun 2007, 12:22
The need/desire for ATC and RFF are also considerations. The aerodrome/rwy physical capability to take the acft isn't the full story, except in an absolute "no other option scenario". Most militray bases, out of hours, don't have any RFF.

A west coast example from a couple of months back on a weekend has PH fogged in and a foreign international wanting to park at LM. Changed his mind after being told descent would be OCTA, CTAF broadcast etc, and the only RFF capabilty was the local CFA boys, and it would take 30 minutes to get them there.

Rousing customs/immigration/qurantine for international diversions to 'other than normal' locales can also be a challenge. This can result in the crew being told they must keep the pax on board until the lads arrive. That's assuming there some ground handling capability there, including a set of steps that can reach the door.