ditching in water without floats

[loggerman]

can anyone explain to the procedure for an autorotation landing in water without floats and what the odds of surviving are (has anyone done it) what happens when the blades hit the water etc?

[IntheTin]

Think it depends on which aircraft. I'm sure there are different procedures for all aircraft.

[malabo]

It's been done more than a few times. Probably a few GOM guys can spill on it. I know of at least one 206 with an N1 tach failure that successfully auto'd into the ocean. Another time is was a 206L that shut its engine off in the more dramatic flare than usual to a floating pad (eng overspeed?). Everyone in both got out OK, they don't sink that fast. From a pilot's point of view, it is just a normal auto, as the belly sinks in the water put the cyclic to the right so the leading blade hits the water first, retreating blade then doesn't cut into the cockpit and helps pull the transmission backwards instead of forwards. Opposite for the Eurocopters.

A good auto with a slow water entry and keeping it upright is important. There was a 212 that did a bad night auto in the Maldives a few years back and everybody died on the impact with the water, not drowning or hypothermia.

I don't think any of the S-70 doing night ocean SAR have flotation. At least they didn't in "The Perfect Storm". Probably a few of the tuna boat robbies don't have anything either.

Malabo

[zalt]

Surely NO ONE operates offshore over GOM without floats?

[loggerman]

at the moment i am still learning in a h300c once i have my licence and would like to fly over the bristol channel ocasionally say from swansea to ilfracome i think its 20 or so miles and just wondering if i had engine failure whats the chances of surviving.

[Tailboom]

I regulary fly across the Bristol Channel and the Irish sea take a life jacket with you and a PLB and keep in contact with Cardiff or Swansea and you should be ok recently flew from Lydd to France you would n't have to worry about drowning there I think you would be run over by a container ship first !!!!!

With the Irish sea crossing unless your higher than about 3000 feet you will not be able to pick up Shannon or London Information.

[Tailspin Tommy]

Loggerman,

I hope that whatever you fly in the offshore environment has emergency or fixed flotation. I spent a fair number of years in the GOM and as an Army instructor doing autos. In the oil patch we used a B206 with fixed floats landing in the water to small lakes or ponds for practice. The military didn't have floatation. The drill was to plan the deceleration a bit higher than if landing on land (about 75 feet AGL). The altitude would also help should you miss judge you height above the waves or swells, which could ruin your whole day if you hit them while they were rising.

Without floats - I believe that after touchdown you would hold as much up collective to disipate the rotor. Wave action and/or wind dwill more than likely determine the direction you will roll. Which ever way it rolls let the rotor stop. Then exit. Consider unlocking or opening the cockpit door latch while in the auto. This is just in case you hit hard and jam the door making it difficult to open once on/in the water. The door will not flop around while you autorotate with forward airspeed.

It's been a long time since I had to think about flying offshore without floats. Not good for longevity, especially if your flying a single-engine aircraft.

Good luck

[airborne_artist]

If you plan to fly over water regularly (with or without floats) it might be sensible to attend an underwater escape course (http://www.rgitmontrose.com/training/course_info.asp?uid=12)

[Thomas coupling]

As an ex waterbird instructor with the Canadian Air Force, I have thrown an S61 at the water about a couple of dozen times for my sins.
From memory:
If the sea state is anything greater than 2-3 then you will overturn very soon after landing. That's assuming you haven't flared too hard and too long and chopped your tail off on the passing swell. This will cause you to rotate rapidly as you bring the collective in (with engines on).
Correct technique is to envisage an invisible touchdown point about 20 feet above sea level (dependent on a/c type) and plan to come to a hover before settling vertically onto the top of and at 45 degrees to...the next swell.
IF you are still able to control the a/c (say u have MGB oil leak etc) then discharge your pax prior to landing and then hover taxi away from them (avoid drift back onto them) before ditching on your lonesome. Reason for this is that WHEN you tip over, you may get trapped but atleast your pax are out:D
On ditching, if you think you are going to swipe the swell, consider swiping it with the advancing blade first so the equal and opposite newton law rips the MGB out of its housing and propels it backwards away from your seat:D
If you settle safely onto the water, I would stay inside the a/c strapped in until it rotates and sinks....obviously the doors have gone by now and when the rotors stop turning..wave goodbye to the cab and calmly release your harness and mic tel lead and swim away from the rotor diameter before inflating your jacket.
Landing on water engines off -
Flare, check level - dont worry about tail being choppped.
settle vertically.
Carry on from there.
A BRAVE PILOT WILL ELECT TO GET AIRBORNE AFTER SETTLING ON THE WATER FOR SOME TIME.

[airborne_artist]

I would stay inside the a/c strapped in until it rotates and sinks....obviously the doors have gone by now and when the rotors stop turning..wave goodbye to the cab and calmly release your harness and mic tel lead and swim away from the rotor diameter before inflating your jacket.

The drills taught in the RN dunker (http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.3249) include waiting for all moving parts to stop before exiting the aircraft. In the training environment this means counting to ten seconds before releasing straps.

[BRASSEMUP]

And make sure you have a fully charged stass bottle!:ok:

[Helinut]

Loggerman,

There are several aspects to your question, given the circumstances you describe.

Others have taken you through the "how to do the auto", and TC rightly also points out that some helicopter ditchings might not involve an auto at all. Ditchng covers a range of events: powered flight under control, powered flight with limited/little control, autorotation with and without power, uncotrolled ditching.

What equipment you should carry is partly determined by legal requirements, but more usefully should be based on a risk assessment. A major part of that will be how often you fly over water, for what duration and how far from land, in what sea/weather state, water temperatures, night/day etc etc. It used to be the case that for private flights there were very few legal requirements. I believe that has recently changed in the UK, so that you do need to carry LJs and PLBs, although not aviation certified.

If I was planning to do a flight such as you suggest over the Bristol Channel, I would always take LJs AND wear them. I would also carry a PLB (preferably one of the GPS versions). I am also a great advocate of HUET training and would recommend anyone flying a hele over the sea does one of the courses available. The ditching stats in the North Sea show a marked improvement in survival rate once the offshore workers did their survival training.

If I was planning to fly even that short distance during the winter, personally I would want to wear a survival suit. You will only last a few minutes in the water without one. You can pick up such suits at a reasonable price. If you do not wear a survival suit, then at the very least wear clothes that will give some thermal insulation when immersed.

Any personal equipment to be used by the pilot needs to be immediately accessible to him.

If you are using a small hele, there are problems with liferafts. They are bulky and can present a hazard in the cabin. They may well be difficult to get out of the aircraft too. So long as you have set the flight up so that you will have been able to make a distress call, and have a PLB or similar, you should not expect to have to spend too long in the water. For that reason, perhaps you will conclude that a raft is not needed. If you would expect to spend some long time in the water, then a raft becomes a more useful piece of kit.

There are devices that can be used to enable evacuees to breath while they exit a helicopter underwater. Those with military experience will be familair with and recommend mini-scuba sets - called STASS or HEED. As a pilot and diver I think they are great and have my own personal bottle which I take with me. However, training for STASS is really essential. STASS is generally NOT used for offshore workers - typically they are provided with and trained to use "re-breathing systems". These are essentially a plastic bag and a tube. Once underwater, you breath into the bag which allows a limited ability to re-breath the air you have expired. It extends a person's ability to swim underwater and mitigates the effect of the initial immersion into cold water.

Extend your "flight planning" to consider what will happen after a ditching. In the Bristol Channel there are various lifeboats and the Chivenor SAR helicopter. As long as you maintain comms, the alarm should be raised rapidly and SAR resources deployed without delay and with a short arrival time. (It won't feel like a short time if you are in the water though!). A PLB will improve things too. Make sure the combination of what you provide and how you operate WILL allow the available SAR resources to have a good chance of rescuing you alive and well.

The first and most important step you have already taken. This is to start thinking about it. Because you have already done that, you will improve your chances of a successful outcome. Extend that to thinking through all apsects of the ditching. This will make everything go more smoothly, should the relatively unlikely event of a ditching occur.

[loggerman]

Thanks for your replies i will try and diggest it all.
Dont suppose there are any videos of any water landings without floats around are there?
Dont want to sound stupid but what does GOM stand for?

[hihover]

Gulf of Mexico I think.

[Impress to inflate]

Think about a survival suit and look into sudden cold shock.

[Sven Sixtoo]

As the guy who does research for the guys who will have to pick you up if you ditch.

1. Get a beacon. Without a beacon we probably won't find you and you will die.

2. Wear an immersion suit. Without a suit the initial shock of immersion may well kill you. If that doesn't get you, for most of the year you will die of hypothermia in the hour or so it takes us to get airborne and reach you.

3. Wear a Lifejacket. Without it you will work hard to stay afloat, and that will use up the energy reserves that would otherwise keep you warm.

4. Do an underwater escape course. There have been numerous ditchings where the living and the dead have divided neatly between those who had done the course and those who hadn't.

5. If at all possible take a dinghy. They are available as wearable backpacks replacing your seat cushion. A dinghy increases your survival time from hours to days, and is about fifty times easier to see than your head bobbing around in the water.

Sven

[RINKER]

Loggerman Other pilots may not agree but when I,m over water carrying a liferaft I always carry a knife close to hand in case it decides to inflate in the cockpit ! .
R