CPL or IR school closeish to Derby?

[Simon150]

Hi All,

I have just done my ATPL exams and am looking to start either my IR or CPL (not sure which to do first yet) in the UK. I am fortunate that I am working at the moment so would be looking to do either part-time, at least to start with.

The problem is that I have looked all over the net and can't find anywhere that runs CPL or IR courses close by, although I know that there are many schools that may not feature high in the google results for whatever reason.

I was going to take some time off to do my IR with Aerodynamics in Malaga, but I understand that they are struggling at the moment with management and aircraft availability (twin particularly) so have decided to spend the extra cash and do it "all UK".

OK.....I have put together a list of airfields that are within reach:-

Tatenhill
Derby
Leicester
East Midlands
Peterborough/Sibson (just)
Nottingham
Syerston
Sheffield (just again)
Netherthorpe
Hucknall
Retford/Gamston

Unbelievably, none of these airfields appear to have an FTO that can offer either CPL or IR. At least I can't find any FTO on the net.

Derby do offer CPL on the net but when you ring up, they are not ready to start the course yet - date TBA awaiting aircraft and instructor.

Does anybody know any different???? :ok:

[BlueRobin]

Why are you not considering Halfpenny Green?

[Simon150]

Hi,

Since I was hoping to do the course part time, evenings and weekends etc. at least to start with, I would like the school to be within an hour or so commuting. I live in derby, and I think the airfields above fit within that criteria.

I did my PPL with HPG and I think they are great, but its just a little to far away from home to be considered in the first pass. If nothing comes up with the airfields detailed, then I probably will have no option but to travel the extra distance.

[BlueRobin]

I personally would advocate unemployment, or if your employer allows a career break from CPL/IR onwards. Otherwise, your choices are severely limited due to the way schools roster courses. There's an assumption you'll commit full-time, a CPL course say last 4 weeks whilst the IR last 8 weeks. You might try On-Track at Wellesbourne for the CPL if P-T study is necessary.

[MIKECR]

Check the CAA website for a list of suitably qualified FTO's, you'll find all you need to know there. And BlueRobin is right, you'll struggle to find somewhere to do the training P/T, its really a F/T commitment and schools expect you there Monday to Friday 9-5. Expect 3 to 4 weeks for the CPL and 5 - 6 weeks for the IR.

[BlueRobin]

Standards Document 31 (search it) on the CAA website will tell you where as Mike says. A few friends live up Derby/Notts where and there is a lack of commercial schools in that area for such a large population mass. If I had lots and pots of money, I would consider setting up a school at East Mids.

[dom462]

Try http://www.cloud9aviation.net/

I believe I saw an advert in pilot magazine a few months ago saying that they were setting up at Leeds, Gamston & Sheffield and offering all types of training. Don't know much about them I'm afraid! If you do give them a call, please let us know.

[captain_rossco]

from what i've heard, id avoid cloud9 aviation, theres a thread going about them on this page, and numerous others if you do a search.

[moggiee]

Why are you not considering Halfpenny Green?
Indeed - only about 1 1/2 hours from Derby, maybe less.

Simon 150 - As for evenings and weekend training, you will be VERY hard pressed to find an FTO that will do it that way. After all, as has been said above, it really is a full time commitment.

We have had students try to do it part time and it just doesn't work - they lack the continuity required to make a decent job of it and so end up spending a fortune on remedial training to catch up on what they've forgotten since the last lesson. The net resulkt is that it is actually cheaper to take a few weeks (unpaid) off work and get the damn thing done ASAP, then go back to work.

Remember also that instructor have lives and families - they don't want to work evenings and weekends if they can avoid it. Given that most students are prepared to make a full-time commitment, this works out well for everyone. As it is, I'm rarely home before 6.30 of an evening.

[BlueRobin]

Or students that intend to do it full-time then either run out of leave or forget to tell the FTO they are on standby. As moggiee says, this breaks the training up and will require further revision

Don't forget the biscuits ;)

Total posts for BR = 747, a good milestone

[Gullyone]

Is Coventry not close enough.

[BlueRobin]

Getting sent to Coventry will try your patience :E

[moggiee]

Getting sent to Coventry will try your patience :E
My feedback regarding Coventry is that AFT are struggling to manage their Modular students - flying rates are so low that quite a number have jumped ship. This appears to be due to demand for their integrated product.

[Megaton]

Moggiee,

Since you appear to work for a competitor, is it really ethical to quote second hand, and negative, feedback on AFT?

I converted my IR at AFT and was very pleased with the price, training and results. I felt like I'd been fairly treated financially and professionally. Full first time pass at minimum expense.

[BlueRobin]

HP, when did you do your IR conversion? Moggiee is only repeating the feedback he has seen of late from ex-AFT students that turn up at his workplace, and is borne out too by some AFT and ex-AFT chums I have.

[Megaton]

It is a few years ago (but not that many!) but I repeat: is it ethical to spread second-hand opinions especially regarding a competitor. It would be inadmissible in a court of law! :8

I, at least, have actually been there and have no vested interest in their financial wellbeing.

[moggiee]

HamPhisted - in response to your post, I have edited mine to remove any suggestion as to where those ex-AFT customers are going. You will note, also, that I do not name the organisation for which I work.

However, the information I quote is not second hand - it's first hand. We (and others) ARE picking up modular customers from AFT and they ARE leaving because the time taken to complete courses is too long. Their training records show how long courses are taking.

This has a serious impact for them when they are taking unpaid leave to conduct their training -and one missed a job with an airline because his CPL took twice as long as promised by AFT, thus causing him to miss the recruiting slot by about 2 weeks.

As for legal admissability - well, facts are fine, aren't they? - and that's what you've been given by two posters here. There is a difference between opinion and fact - I have given facts and and have not expressed any opinion. If I was to express an opinion, it would be to say that I believe that AFT train their customers to a high standard - although, as that is a widely held view, it is nearer fact than opinion.

I have no desire to see AFT in financial trouble - in fact, the problems with scheduling modular training are in part down to their success with selling integrated training, and good luck to them.

As an employee of an FTO I recognise that our relationship with AFT is more one of co-operation than competition (there is more than a little mutual back scratching goes one, helping each other out). There is space for us both -although they are now perhaps moving towards a different market position from ourselves.

[Megaton]

Whatever.... :cool:

[BlueRobin]

HP, up until this time last year AFT were a good little school so your good experience is quite valid. They have however since gone through a period of expansion, also are under new ownership, which I surmise has affected their business.

[moggiee]

Whatever.... :cool:
I do love a reasoned, articulate debate! Still, if you prefer to resort to TV catch phrases, I'll just say:

"I ain't bovvered!"

[Megaton]

Lost the will and busy bidding for August's work. Anyway, I'd heard from a friends's uncle who's butcher's dog had told him.....

[BlueRobin]

The "R" in PPRuNe stands for? :)

[Simon150]

I must thank you all for the response on this. I never realised that opportunities for professional training were so limited around the Midlands area.

It looks like the evening weekend approach is out of the window, which is what I suspected but wasn't 100% on. I still think it's quite surprising becasue I would have thought if you could do the PPL part-time, instructor availability aside (which shouldn't be a problem at weekends), then the CPL sylabus looks quite relaxed in comparison - especially when you fly regularly, which I do.

The IR seems to be a completely different kettle, and I realised a long time ago that I need to pack up my laptop and commit full time for that one.

Wolverhampton would be my FTO of choice for full-time study anyway, and since it also seems be top (or bottom) of the pile pricewise I think I have made up my mind.

I have a work contract which expires in December, which means I will not be able to start any further training until the new year if I go full time. Given this I was thinking about doing IR before CPL (I know there is a thread on this already - so maybe I will join that?), on the basis that the IR has lots of Sim time at H'Penny Green and may be less weather dependant than the CPL. In Jan/Feb weather is likely to be a big issue.

Anyway, thanks to all for an interesting thread. Simon