Nationwide Airlines SOLD??!!!!!

[DropTheDunlops]

There are strong rumuors around that Nationwide Airlines has been sold. The speculation is that a BEE investment consortium has bought the airline.
Could this be that they see the gap in the market as SAA downsize?

Anyone with more info???

[John Wayne]

More "breaking news" from someone who's never posted before, or someone who perhaps posts under a different name . . . ? Call me a cynic, but I spy a pip in the the grass; and as we all know, it be the pips that make your eyes red. :}

[DropTheDunlops]

John Wayne said "it be the pips that make your eyes red."


Only if you mix it with alchohol!!!!!!

Speculate if you must, just thought I'd try contributing instead of only browsing forums all the time.

[Avi8tor]

The speculation is that a BEE investment consortium has bought the airline.
Could this be that they see the gap in the market as SAA downsize?


If it was a BEE act, SAA would be FORCED to downsize. I dont see the government using tax payer's hard earned ZAR trading beads to close down one of their own.

Interesting idea, but dont buy it either. BEE tried once before with SAX, dont see it happening again.

Old story about making a small fortune in avition.....

[Deskjocky]

Word out is that its Bidvest looking to take a 25% share.

This is possibly to support Bidair- its ground handling division. The reason for this is that Bidair does not look like its going to get the 3rd ground handling licence form ACSA. Therefore they have to get a stake in an airline so that they can operate under the self handling principle. I know Bidair were also looking to buy CHS - currently owned by Comair- some time ago so perhaps these two issues are linked.

If they did this then they would be allowed to handle Comair/Kulula Nationwide and Express Air services under the self handling principle. Not bad for a company that doesn’t have a ramp handling licence.

As an aside their self handling arrangement does not attract the same charges levied on turn over by ACSA........

If what I suspect is true then it will have very little impact on Nationwide- aside from ol Uncle Vern pocketing a tidy little cheque!

[FUG]

Bidair in fact now own 60% of CHS as reported in the Bidvest financials.

Quite how no one has complained that this means they can not be a self handler confuses me.

[Deskjocky]

Maybe someone from ACSA is reading this...:}:}

[LittleMo]

Bidvest bought a sizeable share in Comair a few months ago. Why would they buy into Nationwide..makes no sense. Seems wires are crossed somewhere...

[oerlikon]

Don't SAA own shares in Comair?

Didn't SAA have some sort of nefarious dealings with Sun-Air to force their closure?

These are just questions, not rumours.

[Avi8tor]

Bidvest bought a sizeable share in Comair a few months ago. Why would they buy into Nationwide..makes no sense. Seems wires are crossed somewhere...

Bidair in fact now own 60% of CHS as reported in the Bidvest financials.


Think it was in CHS not Comair. Not sure how the Competitions Board would take to Bidvest holding shares in both handling companies. But then is VB selling the airline or just the handling part?

If its the whole airline, that changes the airline industry picture totally. Like I said, don't see the state using tax payer money to fight one of there own.

Its off the topic, and I know it will cause more teddy tossing, but I didn't bring it up:-
Didn't SAA have some sort of nefarious dealings with Sun-Air to force their closure?


SAA and nefarious dealings, surely you jest?

Yeah, Sun Air and Flite Star for those that remember. Ask G deK about his dealings with SAA and Avia when your next at the 'boom.

[oerlikon]

Hmmm.

As I said. Questions only, not rumours.

But isn't the easiest way of closing down competition to buy into them and then force them under?

[Deskjocky]

The airline that wanted Sun Air out of business the most was Comair. In the later 90’s Sun Air was kicking Comair’s butt- Comair had no answer to what was the best product in the market at that time. Their opportunity came to do something about this when Sun Air was privatized- Comair put in a joint bid with a BEE consortium. Comair bought 20 percent and the BEE crowd, Ratabele if I remember correctly, bought 60 odd percent. The government didn’t see a problem with Comair’s participation and the deal went ahead. Well sort of because the BEE guys couldn’t come up with the cash, but that didn’t matter as the government overlooked this inconvenient fact and let them carry on.

To cut a long story short Comair advised their BEE partners that the Sun Air Management team were feeding them a line of BS and they would vet any board decisions before they were made. The net result is that not one initiative we sent to the board for approval was ever approved. This was followed up with the dismissal of the Head of Commercial and finance as well as the key individuals in his department. Comair also pulled a really neat trick with our biggest retail travel supporter at the time- someone who was supporting Sun Air more than Comair, the then head of sales for Comair told them not to renew their override agreement with Sun Air as Comair and Sun Air would in future be included in the Comair deal. The net result was that a huge chunk of Sun Air’s turnover disappeared overnight. While damage repair was underway to fix this blatant lie, the Comair directors on the board used this to show that Sun Air was going down the tubes. The Ratabele guys got well scared and wanted out. Comair then approached SAA to buy out the Ratabele shares- Coleman went for the deal as most of the purchase price was to be underwritten by Sun Air unflown coupons (SAA subsequently realised a tidy sum from the carriage of ex- Sun Air traffic) Coleman bought Ratabele out and shut the airline down- with the other major share holder- COMAIR’s- agreement. Sun Air closed its doors with over 40 mil in cash in the bank as well as more money owed to it via BSP- money that went to SAA in the end.

Then all the dirty deals were done around the MD’s where Safair refused us access to the aircraft despite the leases being up to date and guaranteed funding being available to cover future commitments. Comair also signed a commitment to take the aircraft on lease after they were sent offshore for a few years (something SAA insisted on) these aircraft returned and formed the nucleus of the Kulula fleet.

Sun Air’s CEO was given a cushy little job at SAFAIR before going to Kenya to stuff up an airline there- much like anything he ever touched.

Comair didn’t get the market share Sun Air vacated, that almost all was divided up between SAA and Nationwide. The reason SAA got there was because they got hold of the Sun Air FFP -Air reward’s database, they did this the day the announcement was made. At the same time they basically recruited most of the airline’s key staff. By the time Comair woke up a week later and came looking for the spoils of war there was nothing but empty offices, it took them another 2 weeks before they were able to make sense of the FFP database- by which time SAA had offered all the members equal status and matched their miles therefore the uptake for Comair was very low.

Comair’s part in the deal has largely been overlooked which I suppose is testament to their ability to keep it quite, although they have paid the price in another way- the commitment they made to those MD80’s did not pan out as planned and I suppose has cost them in the long run, the wheel always turns....:=

[Al Kida]

Hey DJ, as an ex sun air boy who suddenly found himself on the street, your account makes for interesting reading. :D I hope the wheels really turn for Comair, which going by the sentiment on some of the other threads, looks like its starting to happen. I will now ensure that not even my ID90 tickets go comairs way! F:mad:rs!

[Avi8tor]

It suited SAA more to make SunAir go away. Remember at that stage SAA's market share dipped below 50% on the CPT route. Think it was heading the same way on DBN too.

DJ is right, the n:mad:r in the wood pile was Retabele, they had no money. The plan was doomed to failure before it started.

Seem to think recapitalisation was required. It didn't go as Comair had planned. Also they were the minority shareholder, so when it all went pear shaped, they were not gonna come up with the cash for the rest of the shares.

The staff held the other shares, as I remember.

Again the tax payer footed the bill. Sun Air in the correct hands would have been a viable concern. Sad the travelling public lost out.

Would love to hear the Novick version of the story.

Seem to remember the writing of the dirty deal was on the wall, the pilots got a HUGE increase about 2 weeks before everything hit the fan. Remember being in RF's office and him saying "don't worry, will never get paid".

Gotta love what we DON'T see in aviation.

[Goldfish Jack]

Seems like it is the BEE group that is trying to get SunAir up and running again.

They have realised it is not as easy as they thought it would be,never mind all the paperwork with DoT and CAA, so now they are negotiting to buy into Nationwide.

Believe the deal is up to R50 million and is being financed by an overseas bank.

[Jumbalia]

Nationwide has indeed been sold to a consortium in Cape Town. It's no rumour... Whether it's BEE or not, I'm not sure.

[propdrop]

where does one find such information? it sounds to good to be true:D, maybe someone will start keeping uncle V in check.

[Jumbalia]

Unfortunately I cant disclose how I know this at this stage ;)... If you remain a sceptic, just wait and see...

Jumbalia

[Yossarian]

How much is Uncle V gonna be involved still?

[Whenwe]

I cannot imagine Uncle V giving up control over his money. He will either retain financial control or he will be out. There is no middle way for him.

[propdrop]

the thing is that everyone heard, from 'reliable sources' that they were getting more 767's. did that fall through, and how is this different? i'm in no way a sceptic, if i had that sort of money NW would be the first airline i'd buy. you can say what you like about the personal matters of V, but he does have a solid eye for business. I just sincerely think the industry in SA would be a better place without him.:ok:

[George Tower]

This is a very interesting rumour......so any facts to go with it?

[Shrike200]

- They are 'looking' (and have been for some time) for more 767's and 73 classics, not quite the same as 'getting' more ;)

- VB to go.

- 100% buyout, nobody seems to have a clue to who though.

- more info supposedly to come shortly. Ha ha!

- Crew at the moment are feeling like a) punching bags, because of horrible check-in system which negates on time departures, and b) mushrooms, for the usual reasons. An aura of chaos prevails.

[Bomber Man]

well Looks like the airline bussimes is going through a bit of rougth water because of a hand full of CEO's that want to ellimanate the competition. Look at Safair SAA and now NAtionwide. Maybe the Goverment is behind all this it must be a conspiracy

[rodmur]

ACSA have awarded licence to Bidaor and Menzies. The others are on a month to month licence

[Shrike200]

The usual performance from VB - go through the whole process, then demand his 51%, in effect telling people 'I want you to just give me the money, and I'll stay the boss'. The usual result - 'No deal!'

[Whenwe]

Thats what I said. He will not give up control.....never. You have to buy him out! Par for VB.

[Deskjocky]

So I take there is no deal then?

[propdrop]

Isn't it just fantastic how by being a d:mad:s gets you places? i can't understand how they keep hitting 21 in their aviation game of blackjack...sold or not they have a winning formula. i don't think anyone (including employees) will know for sure if the place has been sold until the new boss pitches up for work one morning, and V is buying another racing car...

[Fluffy flyer]

So whats the story with Nationwide has it been sold,

this thread has gone quiet, anyone out there in the know :confused:

[I.R.PIRATE]

I have heard that old Phoenix SunAir's name mooted again in this deal...:suspect: