Whatzz uup at Safair

[line-driver]

Its been a long period now of "rumours" regarding Safair's position in the future.

I have heard that they intend to cease ALL foreign carrier maintenance all-together, and that they intend to put over 50% of their maintenance engineers workforce onto the unemployment market.
Engineers moral is at an all-time low. These are fellows that work hard day-in, day-out to get BA/Comair/Kulula/Air Namibia aircraft out on time and on schedule, they are married men with houses and children and wives that will be facing a devastating and uncertain future, and all due to the fact that at "Director" level or board-room level a decision was made to be an aircraft leasing company only.
Loss of many UN contracts has also caused Hercules flying to come to an almost standstill, caused mainly by the minimum hours imposed by UN on pilots experience before allowing them to operated under the UN banner.
This was caused by the leaving of many experienced and high-time Herc pilots.
I believe that some Hercs are almost standing in "moth-balled" condition due to no more contracts for them.

Rumour has it that Safair will exist only as an aircraft leasing company in the future.

Its really sad that you work for a company for many many years, working your way up thru the ranks, showing utmost loyalty and then get kicked in the teeth due to a "COMMERCIAL" decision that is taken at board level.

[arf1410]

Didn't Safair get out of the maintenance business about 10 years ago, and much of that work and technical personnel was picked up by Denel, in their attempt to become an MRO? and then Safair got back into it themselves...

[CJ750]

Funny but is "Johan Chestcloth" not there. He was at SUNAIR too was he not. HERE WE GO AGAIN

[Black Pearl]

Interesting to see how the wheels turned for SAFAIR. I guess it’s payback for the dirty tricks campaign they were involved in with Comair and SAA. Any one remember the R50 million they received in the Sun Air demise? They lined their pockets with tax payer’s money from SAA, while all the Sun Air staff lost their jobs.:*
I feel very sorry for the engineers left at SAFAIR. If you can, get the hell out of there. Trust me the bosses feel nothing for you. All the best chaps, you will need it!!!!!!!!!

[Deskjocky]

Glad to see the dirty tricks during the Sun Air era have not been forgotten, and lets not forget the collusion of the CEO at the time and his cushy job he was given:yuk::yuk::yuk: If Safair had supported us and released the aircraft then Im sure Sun Air (the origional) would still be around today.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Dirty tricks are nothing new at Safair.:rolleyes:

[ERASER]

Heard a rumour that SAA Technical got the contract for all BA's B737 a/c......might even get the Kulula B737 fleet as well....

PS talking about Kulula, believe their new B737 c/s (Logo jet) is green camouflage ;)

[Deskjocky]

Heard a rumour that SAA Technical got the contract for all BA's B737 a/c......might even get the Kulula B737 fleet as well....


Tax payer subsidised maintenance......how will Novick sleep at night!!:}

[TCAS-Climb]

He' going to sleep very tightly...
Tax payer is going to pay for the maintenance, and the bonus is,
he doesnt even have to pay his staff a market related salary...

[sslut]

Now we wonder how long SAA can string out a C check for? Seem to remember them hanging on to maintenance on previous airlines they did work for.

[line-driver]

He' going to sleep very tightly...
Tax payer is going to pay for the maintenance, and the bonus is,
he doesnt even have to pay his staff a market related salary...

too true...too true

[ARENDIII]

Yup! I agree,
It looks as though "management" are not aviation orientated as they have made bad decisions over the last two years and they treat their employees like trash. Too much skimming the cream by marketing(???)
and waiting for the phone to ring.
Question of time before we switch off the lights?

[foxtrot53]

regarding what was said about marketing (or the lack of?) it is sad to see the opposition doing marketing in the field, but never the safair boys. i cannot hear any phones ringing with tenders if the customer does not know you still exist.

[Bomber Man]

Safair is maybe buying Nationwide. this is very hush hush

[Bomber Man]

Whats going on

[Bomber Man]

And Comair getting in the same bed as SAA. How long will it be before SAA take over Comair or force them to close like Sunair. Who knows. Elliminating the competition.:)

[I.R.PIRATE]

have heard the foreigner is not the most dynamic marketer around...:suspect:

[Bomber Man]

Jip Safair and SAA is working together to illiminate the competition. Like they did with Sun Air. How can you get in the bed with the same competition why dont they start there own Maintenance like Nationwide it will be hard but much better in the long run. Dont they have ceo's that can see this comming

[ARENDIII]

MMmmm If Safair is buying Natiowide surely they woul'd need to keep their
hard working technicians instead of retrenching?

[fzrr0]

Its sad to see that so many people will be without work. If I were a shareholder of said Company, I would ask for an investigation into mis-management of the Company:\

[ARENDIII]

Do you think that Safair can buy Nationwide while retrenching or do you think they might buy the company to provide work for the safair techs?
Who does Nationwide's maintenance at present?

[Bomber Man]

Nationwide has their own AMO and Technicians wich is good. Well if you read into the Comair bussiness and what they did to Sunair it the past. Suspicion is that maybe Safair is working with SAA to get Comair off the map like they did with Sunair in this way Safair can maybe start there own airline. Well who knows what those sly CEO's are up to now again.
All we can do is wait and see

[foxtrot53]

I tend to agree with you that the shareholders should launch an invertigation, but we know it will not happen as we all know that safair is run by bean counters, not aviation orientated and dedicated aviation management. we used to have a saying " 16 hercs and 1 merc' now I hear it's just the other way around. as long as the share holders expect huge returns on their investment, safair will suffer, as we know that aviation cannot generate the same return as car leasing. I think alot of aeroplanes will be sold again, to satify said share holders, unfortunately, it will not help the company. They need to fly on contracts, not park the hercs and hope for better days.

[ARENDIII]

CONTRACTS/MARKETING/CONTRACTS/MARKETING/CONTRACTS/MARKETING!!!
That is what it is about gentlemen, not empty promises.
Happy aircrew are productive aircrew-truth and transparency instead of silence!

[Bomber Man]

Has any one have some new news on the SAFAIR Sagga. Well I wonder if Comair can see what will happen to them in the future if they eventually put all their eggs in one Bascket. I wonder if the top people in Safair Comair and Saa read thease forums. Maybe they can Learn something. Well if you know them or some one who is high up tell them about these forums:O

[fzrr0]

What should happen, is that Safair should pay their Air-crew's per hour flown, and not a fixed salary so that they can sit around and still take home a handsome salary at the end of the month for doing nothing.:}

[dr27]

It seems that Safair forms part of or falls under Imperial Holdings, as are, allegedly, NAC and through share holding Naturelink.
In a recent interview om ClassicFM the newly appointed CeO, Hubert Broody, mentioned that aviation is no longer part of its strategic vision.
You decide

[ARENDIII]

Do not quite follow your post. Perhaps you could explain?

[Cave Troll]

Arend III I would have to agree with you. fzzr0 what are you on about dude. Are you trying to br sarcastic. I am with safair and believe me we are not earning the greatest salaries to start off with. Granted we do not work very hard compared to most SA airlines but no one is being forced to work for these other slave driving airlines.

Have a great day

ct

[SAFARI Fire Fighter]

It sounds to me that fzrr0 might be one of those disgrunteled workers in OPS getting pissed off because us flying crew get paid S&T. What he does not understand is that WE are the ones sitting away from loved ones over christmas and new years, WE are the ones missing family birthdays while he sits fat, dumb and happy in his air con office and drives his merc home every night to his family. Another thing, maybe if we were actually flying, we could look at per hour pay.

But the way things are going now, WE will get other jobs, but what about you?

[fzrr0]

Cave Troll, is that not maybe why Safair is not doing so well, and the other slave driver Airlines are still in business?:D

[fzrr0]

SAFARi fire fighter. For your information, its when Airlines fly, that they make money, and then everyone is happy. Like you say if you fly you could look at per hour rates. I dont sit in OPS, and am probably away from home a lot more that you, also over most holidays and festive season.

[Cave Troll]

fzrr0 that is a good point. Can I forward your last statement to our marketing dept. I wish we could fly more. So do all the guys that are sitting around for weeks and weeks doing squat. I still do not understand your comment about getting paid by the hour though.

I may just be missing something.

ct

[SAFARI Fire Fighter]

Gentlemen, a lot of posts have been going around about Safair. A lot of blame has been put on management at Safair and some people on this site have even gone so far as to blame the aircrew for sitting at home and earning a salary. Be that as it may, I think its time we look at what is happening and what needs to happen fast or a once great company will be lost forever.
Imperial Holdings, the parent company who acquired SAFAIR in 1998 (as well as NAC and recently acquired Naturlelink through shareholding), seems not to be interested in their aviation division anymore, according to the new CEO of Imperial, Mr Hubert Brody. This was made public by himself in a recent interview on a Classic FM radio show when he indicated that “aviation is no longer part of its strategic vision.” Makes me wonder why they even appointed Mr Hugh Flynn as the new chief executive officer of their Aviation division, probably just to shut it all down. All of these names are freely available on Imperial’s website, should the moderators be concerned about their mention.
So bearing this in mind, you now have Safair receiving no more financial backing from Imperial, yet still having to show a profit to the Imperial investors. Last I heard it was something ridiculous like 30% (you show me any aviation company who can consistently show that kind of profit every year). Management is thus doing the only thing they can to achieve this, selling off assets. One can only sell off so many assets before you start to damage your core business - in this case, the leasing out of aircraft and providing specialized operation. The next step would be to try and bring in more funds with existing contracts. To achieve this you start to review your contracts and increase prices, thereby risking losing your clients to competitors. The next step is to cut overheads. The best way to do this is retrench personnel and presto, you save more money. But there is an old saying in aviation. To make a small fortune you need to start with a big one. The problem is, the small fortune is now getting so small that you cannot make a profit anymore.
The bottom line is, unless Safair gets some serious investors to back them and soon, this company is not going to be around for much longer.

[saywhat]

So bearing this in mind, you now have Safair receiving no more financial backing from Imperial, yet still having to show a profit to the Imperial investors. Last I heard it was something ridiculous like 30% (you show me any aviation company who can consistently show that kind of profit every year). Management is thus doing the only thing they can to achieve this, selling off assets. One can only sell off so many assets before you start to damage your core business - in this case, the leasing out of aircraft and providing specialized operation. The next step would be to try and bring in more funds with existing contracts. To achieve this you start to review your contracts and increase prices, thereby risking losing your clients to competitors. The next step is to cut overheads. The best way to do this is retrench personnel and presto, you save more money. But there is an old saying in aviation. To make a small fortune you need to start with a big one. The problem is, the small fortune is now getting so small that you cannot make a profit anymore.
The bottom line is, unless Safair gets some serious investors to back them and soon, this company is not going to be around for much longer.

I thought this was about SAFAIR, not SAA!!:)

[madherb]

So bearing this in mind, you now have Safair receiving no more financial backing from Imperial, yet still having to show a profit to the Imperial investors. Last I heard it was something ridiculous like 30% (you show me any aviation company who can consistently show that kind of profit every year)So - the investors want a good return on their money. Are they getting 30% from NAC and Naturelink, also owned by Imperial Holdings? Sounds unlikely, if the new CEO has indicated that “aviation is no longer part of its strategic vision.”No more financial backing for Imperial's aviation companies. Hmm. Are any of the three able to stand up and fight without Imperial's money? If not, as SFF says, their existence may well be threatened.

But look! Enter the White Knight, stage left, bearing a large valise stuffed with cash. His name? Ah! Now that would be telling! :oh::oh: (but it's not iKhaya.......)

[fzrr0]

Hi CT,

What I am trying to say, is that if you were paid per hour flown, the Airline makes more money, and all are happy.(in the days that you could fly) Your Marketing division leaves a lot to be desired) believe me. Another topic of discussion could be:

Why is Safair selling off all their GOOD Herc's and sitting with the rubbish that Transafrik dumped? The Guys that made that decission, should be shot.:}

[The Flying Circus]

Commercial decision – you said.

What is a commercial decision? It is al about money – isn’t it?
Do you close something down when it is making money, or do you close it down when it is not making money ?(SAA not applicable)

I feel for the good, honest and passionate workers. But aviation is a career of hire and fire – South Africa is only now catching up with the rest of the world. Wait for the bad days – prepare it is coming. Wait for $ 100 /barrel.

Soon the resurrected guzzlers from the scrapers (DC 9’s MD’s 200 ect) will face doomsday.

Oh by the way – are you a Communist or Capitalist? Have you ever run your own company and employed personal? Do you know what’s a BOTTOM LINE ? This is what the shareholders are interested in. If you don’t make the FIGURE (like SAA) **** is coming.

I think that SAFAIR caught up with reality again like in the 90’s.

The biggest problem in aviation today is that very very very few pilot’s, engineers and also managers, are familiar with the business side of the game – the money side in other word.

By the way – a Mango pilot the other day could not tell me what are the costs for a tyre change, engine o/h or landing fee for the 800. It just shows you how far the flight decks are removed from reality?

I am sure that Gert de Klerk could tell you this while deaming.

How do you know if your company is making money?( SAA not applicable, they have no right for existence in a market economy)

TFC

[The Flying Circus]

Why is Safair selling off all their GOOD Herc's and sitting with the rubbish that Transafrik dumped? The Guys that made that decission, should be shot.

Main Spar

TFC

[The Flying Circus]

So bearing this in mind, you now have Safair receiving no more financial backing from Imperial, yet still having to show a profit to the Imperial investors. Last I heard it was something ridiculous like 30% (you show me any aviation company who can consistently show that kind of profit every year). Management is thus doing the only thing they can to achieve this, selling off assets. One can only sell off so many assets before you start to damage your core business - in this case, the leasing out of aircraft and providing specialized operation. The next step would be to try and bring in more funds with existing contracts. To achieve this you start to review your contracts and increase prices, thereby risking losing your clients to competitors. The next step is to cut overheads. The best way to do this is retrench personnel and presto, you save more money. But there is an old saying in aviation. To make a small fortune you need to start with a big one. The problem is, the small fortune is now getting so small that you cannot make a profit anymore.
The bottom line is, unless Safair gets some serious investors to back them and soon, this company is not going to be around for much longer.

Well said sir .

TFC

[The Flying Circus]

Its sad to see that so many people will be without work. If I were a shareholder of said Company, I would ask for an investigation into mis-management of the Company.

Remember the past , learn from the past .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_American_World_Airways (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_American_World_Airways)
and this
http://www.pbs.org/kcet/chasingthesun/companies/panam.html (http://www.pbs.org/kcet/chasingthesun/companies/panam.html)

and this
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,953515,00.html (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,953515,00.html)
and this
http://www.workers.org/marcy/cd/samecris/eccrisis/eccris04.htm (http://www.workers.org/marcy/cd/samecris/eccrisis/eccris04.htm)
and this
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/usair_bankruptcy.html (http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/usair_bankruptcy.html)
and this
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/dec2002/unit-d11.shtml (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/dec2002/unit-d11.shtml)
and this
http://www.hasbrouck.org/articles/bankruptcy.html (http://www.hasbrouck.org/articles/bankruptcy.html)


TFC

[Cave Troll]

"Why is Safair selling off all their GOOD Herc's and sitting with the rubbish that Transafrik dumped?"

They sold all the good Hercs along time ago so they could by the crap from Transafrik. Now they are selling the fixed up crap {with EFIS etc} that they managed to get into an almost flyable state. Personally I think they are cutting thier noses off to spite thier faces. Long term I don't think it is going to solve much. They need to get work for these planes.

ct

[SAFARI Fire Fighter]

Heard a rumour that Norse Air wants to buy six hercs. Now I wonder..........

[ARENDIII]

A big thank you to everyone who has participated.
We may agree or disagree but it is all healthy debate and we can only end up as winners if we continue to probe.
What has transpired however is that we all need to be pro-active (that includes marketing!!!) and transparent if we are to ensure our collective future. South african aviation is recognized world wide let us go and prove it!!
Fly safely out there,
Arend 111.

[ARENDIII]

Cave Troll, Some new contracts seem to be coming to light-so perhaps some light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe it's Herc landing lights coming the other way from another contract???
I agree that marketing needs a bit of a shove,kick,push,punch etc or maybe their company mobile phone should be cut off so they can get out and market (this time around in economy class).
Management could also take a cue???? Perhaps, Maybe???
Fly well.:):):)