Oxford Aviation Training sold

[jez d]

Looks like the rumours are true. Have just seen this on Flight Training News' website: Click here (http://www.*****************/)

[Yahweh]

Is this Good news or Bad news :confused: :confused:

[phantomcruiser07]

GCAT Flight Academy and overnight became the largest flight training organisation in Europe and the third largest in the world.

.......it will become the 3rd largest training organisation in the world, does any one know who the largest training organisation is?

[davey147]

FlightSafety International is the worlds largest training organisation I think.

[Hookerbot 5000]

I wonder if the fees will still be high? :}

[davey147]

Well people are happy paying the high prices now, so I dont see them lowering them at all.

[Hookerbot 5000]

^ i see your point ;) but i seriously doubt people are happy paying in excess of £75K :}....

Ah well good luck GCAT...

[captain_rossco]

I wouldn't say i was happy paying oxford at all, but i'd like to think there will be something to show for it at the end. Like I've said before it is horses for courses to the Nth degree, if you look around, and it works for you, then go.

I'd like to think there won't be any big changes, but it's a business, and one that took about £18.5m last year (don't hold me to that). We can hope it has been bought as an ongoing concern and will stay as is, but who knows. They also have the airfield meaning its not just OAT that's on for a few changes.

Looking forward to hearing frm anyone who knows bit more than me on the subject.

Kind Regards
CR

[Adios]

OAT didn't make £18.5 Million last year. That was their incoming sales revenue (turnover). Only a portion of that would have been profit and probably a small portion considering the investments they have made in infrastructure over the past few years. Looks like ploughing the revenue back in paid off for them.

GECAT did not buy the airfield, though you can bet BBA PLC will sell it when the price is right. It looks like they are using the same strategy there: invest (new hangars, wider runway, ILS), improve revenue, sell on when they can.

[fibod]

They didn't plough the reveune back in Adios, they ploughed the profits back in :)

[captain_rossco]

Like i said, don't hold me to that.

Regards

CR

[Felix Saddler]

Im a prospective student and wonder whether i should wait a while to see what comes of this. Maybe they will add a TR to the APPFO... :O. Just a thought.

FS

[Felix Saddler]

How long is long? I have time...

[cfwake]

Felix, put simply: they won't! What I would say is that on the basis that people are being scouted while they're still in Phoenix and invited to sim assessments before completing the course, the worst thing you can do if you're going to go and do flying training at some point anyway is wait around to see if you get a better deal. You won't. The market for us guys at the moment, from first hand experience, is good and if you have the ability and do well (ie, around the 90% mark for GS, which is the average at the moment as a rule of thumb) then you'll get a TR anyway. Very possibly even for free, as good numbers of people are discovering, again, from what I've heard from the guys who've graduated recently.

[Groundloop]

Funny how no-one has commented in this in the announcement:-

OAT’s pro-forma revenues for the 12 months ended 31 December 2006 amounted to £18.4 million and OAT will become an integral part of GCAT Flight Academy. This deal will enable GCAT Flight Academy to further accelerate their implementation of the new Multi Crew Pilot’s License (MPL) training curriculum.

As virtually no UK airline is in the least interested in the MPL what market will they be aiming at?

[GrahamK123]

"What I would say is that on the basis that people are being scouted while they're still in Phoenix and invited to sim assessments before completing the course"

Can I ask where you got that infomation from?

[Gullyone]

I know one student who was called on his way home from completing the MCC/ Jot and whas offered an assessment. A week later he was doing his T/R on a 146. Good eh.

[cfwake]

graham,

unfortunately having been using these forums for several years i have become cynical and used to being shouted down as soon as i post something, i can't tell whether you're asking genuinely or asking a question as in 'that's rubbish, who the hell conned you into believing that?', so apologies for the above if you are genuinely just curious!!!

got the information from:

1) the ground instructors
2) the students off courses ahead of me - the ones who WERE scouted
3) from the school

seems pretty solid to me!!

[GrahamK123]

The thing is that after, like n90bar, 2 months (out of the 4 spent here at goodyear) we have seen no evidence of this being true. There havn't even been any rumers of it happening. Neither has it happened to any of the courses out here that are about to leave /just left.

It has happened in the past but I think that was the exception rather than the rule. If anyone has any infomation about it maybe you could get in touch with the staff here so they can pass it on to us?

[cfwake]

don't shoot the messenger!

all we know is what the uk instructors and various others have mentioned, no names mentioned. that said, went into one of the mcc sessions last week and one of the lads had a BA assessment the other day, the others haven't had so much luck but time of the year etc they mentioned flybe have been out there 'recently', although how recent 'recently' was i don't know, assume looking at their current situation we're not talking years ago.

you guys know how difficult the market is for this time of the year. you have also heard the story vis a vis the market for us leaving. the employment boards, irrelevant of how they got the jobs, show a decent proportion of students getting jobs soon after finishing - before our six months is up anyway...

i know the boards now show 254 almost fully employed and they finished what 4 months ago, so it's not all bad. seems to be holding to about the 80% in 6 months mark. nicely baited boys!

[Lukas Kaufmann]

the employment boards, irrelevant of how they got the jobs, show a decent proportion of students getting jobs soon after finishing - before our six months is up anyway...

The thing with these employment boards is that they also show when ex-oxford students change from one airline to another, especially when they happen to change to a legacy carrier as Lufthansa and KLM...
And also the two guys who went to Lufthansa did not go to the mainline but to Lufthansa Cityline which corresponds to BA Connect. So much about this board.

...they mentioned flybe have been out there 'recently', although how recent 'recently' was i don't know, assume looking at their current situation we're not talking years ago.


Well, we're not talking weeks ago either...it must have been at least a couple of months if not almost a year that FlyBe got out here looking for Pilots. As Graham says correctly it clearly seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

[tupues]

Yes, there were airlines scouting in GYR. Yes, it was a few months ago. No, it hasn't happened since then, but it undoubtedly will happened again. Yes, I do know when.....when those airlines see the need.


So we're right, even if we've been out here for just a couple of months...:rolleyes:

[Geoff565]

Hi all,

As a recently graduated student, I thought I'd contribute some info regarding Airlines out in GYR as well as an insight on the job front situation. We were out in Phoenix between June and October of last year and during that period, one airline attended Goodyear to have a look around the new facilities, as well as ask a selected number of students (not sure what the criteria was to be “interviewed”, however it was a broad range of people) on a possible future tagging scheme for students, similar to those that operate in FTE, I believe.However, during the remainder of our time out there, we heard nothing more of it, so I’m not sure what the current standpoint is on that.

In terms of jobs, myself and the majority of the course finished OAT mid-late April. I can only think of a couple of guys at present out of the 20 on the course who haven’t got something in the pipeline and, considering the summer period is generally lacklustre, it’s not bad going at all. In fact my flying buddy on MCC had a conditional offer having not even finished the course, while I was extremely fortunate to have a Sim Ride lined up. The Market is buoyant.

Enjoy Phoenix and best of luck with the rest of the course.

---
Adios, yep that’s correct. While we were out in PHX, Flybe did discuss starting a potential ‘tagging’ scheme, though I do believe the pre-requisites were a bit more detailed. However, roughly speaking, those you mentioned sound about right, I’m just unsure as to whether any more headway has been made on the Scheme itself; it has been just under a year since they were out there now.

Upon your return from Phoenix, providing you attain an average of 85% in the Ground school Exams, with no more than 2 re-sits I believe, Grade ‘3’s’ or better in your flying tests (and a First Series IRT for a job offer), then you are eligible to be put forward to BA for SSP Selection. This is generally conducted well before the IRT.

Hope that’s of some use

[Adios]

My info is second hand, so perhaps some of the Oat students can verify it. What I heard was that FlyBE sought students at Goodyear for a tagging scheme for turboprops. One of the criteria was no more than one resat JAR exam. I also heard that not many people were interested. The only other airline I've ever heard of that starts the recruitment of Oat students before they finish the course is BA. Since I know several Oat students who have gotten BA interviews before they completed their IRT and at least one of them had two resits and was recoursed once in ground school, I would say that very few of those eligible under FlyBE's criteria were interested in espousing themselves to FlyBE for turboprop jobs when they could still be in the running for BA. Oat's employment report shows only two graduates to FlyBE in 2007, with 17 to BA and 16 to BA CitiFlyer.

I don't think Lukas statement that the Oat job board shows when Oat alumni change jobs is true. I suspect some graduates take a year or more to find work, so when their name suddenly pops up on the board, it might appear that they have moved to a new job, when it is actually their first one.

[tupues]

I don't think Lukas statement that the Oat job board shows when Oat alumni change jobs is true. I suspect some graduates take a year or more to find work, so when their name suddenly pops up on the board, it might appear that they have moved to a new job, when it is actually their first one.

I've heard this as well. It might not be true for all of them, but for the Lufthansa ones it definately is.

[GrahamK123]

I think what Lukas means is that while one airline (Flybe) did visit goodyear once last year to 'scout' out potential employees that was a rarity. It would be false to suggest (as has been) that it is common place for airlines to be in goodyear looking for pilots.

I think it is irresponsible for people, especially employees of oxford to give the impression that airlines (plural) are always in goodyear when they quite clearly are not. All it does is lead to more threads about oxfords misleading marketing etc etc

[tupues]

Well, it is true. It is all about money, and for Oxford we're nothing than very good coustomers which Oxford wants to get more of in order to increase it's profits.
And it's not only the thing with the Airlines recruiting (or not) in Goodyear or the fact that people get put on the board when changing to another airline, there are many more things that look so great at the first glimpse but then show to be quite different from what they seem.

[apron]

SQWKVFR,

You seem to be a very petty person with very uneducated replies!!
I am an ex OAT graduate and had a very positive time at OAT. This is inpart to my work (and some may say play) ethic.

Some people may have had a different experience to me but to merely say that every FTO has its problems is not enough I'm afraid. OAT in my eyes is and should continue to be the best training provider and keep it eyes firmly on this. You rather niavely talk about that, yeah we're a business, and that profit is what it is all about. Actually this is incorrect........unless you are the side kick of Gordon Brown. I am happy that at best hopefully all you are is an OAT rep......ideally you would not have any ties with OAT atall, sadly this appears to be untrue. You would never hear Anthony talk like this........profit!!! He, being I expect more educated than you, would talk about the more important issues of re-investment in the company and putting together an infrastructure that will see it remain the best FTO in Europe for many years to come. Some of his strategy will of course come from feedback he receives from customers, directly and from these kind of mediums............so let people talk and refrain from your infantile rants.:ugh:

[Re-Heat]

Another story on this:

BBA Aviation, the UK aviation services company, announces that it has agreed to sell its Oxford Aviation Training business ('OAT') to GCAT Flight Academy for GBP 32m in cash. As part of the transaction, BBA will retain cash of approximately GBP 5m as part of the transaction. The transaction will produce an exceptional profit on disposal of around GBP 20m with tax leakage expected to be minimal. Completion is expected to take place within the next two weeks.
OAT, based at Oxford Airport, is one of the world's leading airline pilot training establishments, and has been supplying trained pilots to air operators across the world for over forty years. In the year ended 31 December 2006, OAT had a turnover of GBP 18.5m.
Commenting on the disposal, BBA Aviation's new Chief Executive Simon Pryce said: "I am delighted that Oxford Aviation Training is joining GCAT. GCAT is a market leader in the Pilot Type Rating Training sector and becoming part of a wider training group will be of substantial benefit to the OAT business and its staff, enabling it to consolidate its position in the European market place and beyond.
We are continuing with the process of rationalising our portfolio and the sale of Oxford Aviation Training further increases BBA Aviation's focus on its core Flight Support and Aftermarket Services and Systems activities. The proceeds of the sale will be invested in these core businesses, where we see a number of opportunities for consolidation."