BMI Mainline T&Cs

[Easy Ryder]

Hello,

Thinkin of jumping ship and would like to know the current state of things at BMI please... (lotsa qu's... sorry!)

1) Roster stability - are they fairly reliable or very much chop and change?
2) Rosters themselves - On shorthaul are you away from home most of your working week or home most days?
3) Whats the approx take home per month (without any pension contributions etc) and first year FO salary?
4) Pension - what are the contributions from the pilot and the company?
5) Can you request certain days off in advance?
6) Number of sectors flown a day?
7) Number of hours flown a year?
8) Annual leave - i've heard 6 weeks, but only allowed to take 2 weeks max in one go? Is that correct?
9) Do you get sector pay?
10) Is the staff travel any good?
11) I'm guessing time to command and Long Haul is a number of years, but safe to assume a largish LH A/C order is on the cards very shortly?
12) Do you enjoy working for BMI??

Thanks to anyone who can answer my qu's. Plz PM me if you prefer. :ok:

[Easy Ryder]

Gary L and CityWings thx for your help :ok:

[Brain Potter]

Easy Ryder,

I am interested in all the same questions. Could you PM me with answers you received?

Many thanks

[Easy Ryder]

Brian chk your PMs

Anyone else from BMI care to contribute? :)

[GLAMM]

I would also be interested in the answers to your questions?
Regards

[PRNAV1]

could someone plz PM me the answers to these questions...:)

[Danger_Mouse]

And me please, or post them! Thanks...

[On speed on profile]

And me please, or could someone just post the answers on this forum.

Thanks.

[nuageblanc]

do they hire none UK pilots or are they as racists as GB Airways ?

[nuageblanc]

Ok, what nationality are GB airways pilots ?? apart from one foreign pilot....

:ooh:

[Field In Sight]

Easyjet are based in multiple countries, so it makes sense to have locally sourced and therefore happy employees.

How many "foreign pilots" work for the likes of Air France, KLM or Alitalia for example. Very few I would guess.

British Airlines seem very cosmopolitan by comparison.

FIS.

[nuageblanc]

How many UK pilots speak french ? or Dutch ? or German ? :bored:

[Easy Ryder]

With an attitude like yours mate you wont be getting a job any time soon.

And from the sounds of it thats a good thing.

I wonder why your French airlines wont hire you? Same reason the UK airlines wont take you on?

Tell you what. Apply to Monarch. If you dont make it then you will know your a tw@t as the interview is basically a d!ckH34d test. Then you'll know whether the all the uk airlines are 'racist' or the problem is you. :ok:

[K.Whyjelly]

To my knowledge bmi has English,Welsh Scottish, Irish,American, Canadian and South African born pilots. As for cabin crew.......an awful lot of 'pays du monde'

[sidtheesexist]

Just for the record, are your comments easyrider, presumably addressed to whitecloud?

English airlines racist????? What an effing joke! Our society is so PC and we as a nation tend to honour EU employment law rather more dilligently than some other members I would venture to suggest, often to the detriment of a lot of our homegrown pilots trying to find employment.

We need to look after our own more, just as the French and US do.....:uhoh:

[Easy Ryder]

Sid,

I dunno who whitecloud is but if he has the same attitude to nuageblanc feel free to point him/her to my comments.

As you say i believe the UK are far more open to foreign pilot employment.

I'm not so much jumping on the band wagon of UK airlines for UK pilots. We are a member of the EU now. If thats what we want we should withdraw. I also have no problem with german carriers demanding fluency in german or french with french and so on. If you can speak the local lingo then there should be no reason why you cant be employed by a particular airline (in a perfect world - and what the hell is that!).

No i'm PO'd that someone that cant cut it to get a job has to go down the racist route. I'm from a minority with foreign roots and have never had a problem or encountered racism within the airlies in th UK, and doubt i ever will. In a pub at Dagenham tho..... :E

[nuageblanc]

Sid, I just said that GB airways have never ever offered any type rating to non UK pilot, and their only foreign pilot came in with already his own type rating plus hundreds of hours on it. I know easyjet and some other english companies are happy to take on pepople from all over europe.
Having said that, easy ryder, dont worry too much for me because I have just finished my type rating and now starting to fly a modern regional jet for Air France, up to now, my company has kicked my ass...

I was just wondering if BMI has a policy similar to Jet2/thomson/BA/easy/monarch or whether it is more like GB airways ;)

[Pstatic]

Heya

Why not post the BMI terms here on the forum. It would be quite exciting to see what they are really offering:)
Regards
Pstatic

[sidtheesexist]

Easyrider - sorry - nuage, Fr, cloud :E blanc, Fr, white
Fair enough whitecloud - if what you say of GB is true, sounds rather 'protectionist' to say the least. But as a Brit I'm not sure I find myself able to condemn them - on the contrary - does that make me racist?!!
Sorry, this is off thread............




nuageblanc is french for whitecloud........................Apologies for confusion

[Easy Ryder]

Sid, sorry but im a bit confused...
Do you think i'm this whitecloud fellow? Whoever that is? I dont really know what your on about. I thought i got enough sleep last night too.....:}

No problem Sid I get ya now :ok:

[one day soon]

Ok ok, this is getting a little confusing now!?!?

Is this thread about BMI mainline t+c's????

Im starting to struggle with who is who? Who has upset who? Who is racist? What Gb has to do with BMI t+c's? Who jack the ripper really was? Why do aliens always do anal probes?.......

Point made, time for me to return to little hole in the ground untill some one actually posts the "T+C's"

[Easy Ryder]

Hello again OneDaySoon!

You must be quite excited at the prospect of 5 new 330's?

Bet the waiting list has shortened a helluva lot :cool:

[Green Army]

Hello,

Just to keep everybody happy. I am in the holding pool with bmi to start soon. To make an end to the useless discussion about English Airlines, I AM DUTCH :ok: and bmi are inviting many people from Holland :ok:. Getting in is a completely different thing, you need to speak the lingo and be able to adjust to an local Airline plus VICE VERSA!!

Please can we now return to the original thread and get on with it.:ugh:

I am looking forward hearing anything about bmi payscale + T/C's!!

THX

[Scarebus321]

Easy,

Tried to PM you but your mailbox was full! Would you be so kind to foward me the the BMI info you received - like you I've just about had enough of RS and TJ...

SB

[58730]

I'm also waiting in the hold pool (since June). Could someone please send me a copy of the Ts and Cs so that I can have an idea of what to expect.

[one day soon]

From Easyrider

"Hello again OneDaySoon!

You must be quite excited at the prospect of 5 new 330's?

Bet the waiting list has shortened a helluva lot :cool:"

Hi Easy,

It was great news to hear, major changes and expansion ahead!
I wont be getting anywhere near the 330's for a while yet but I certainly wont be complaining at the 320/321's. Not much change in the waiting lists as of yet but fingers crossed eh?! :ok:

[skywaytoheaven]

Could somebody post a reply to the original question. ie t & c's for bmi, primarily:

- F/o salary package
- time to command
- time to transfer 320 to 330 (this one is important to myself and a number of others as could go to 330 now, but in overseas airline)
- number of hours/month, night stops/month etc. -don't mind night stops!

Any help much appreciated. Thank you.

[keepitlit]

Hope this helps

F/o salary package starts at 39K plus London weighing so about 42K plus flight pay in around £2 per hour.
Salary is on an increasing scale and has a good jump in year 2 with increments up to year 14.
An 7/8 year FO is on around £50K


Time to command is an unknown quanity at the min until order dates of the new aircraft are confirmed (as it stands at present we have not had a command since pre 911 Longest SFO's are in nearly 10 years but dont judge it by that, things are finally starting to move).(you pays your monies and take your chances, some stuck to bthe bet and see it out).
We have at a guess around 70+ SFO's with min 6 years who are waiting.
We hear the new order needs more than 70 so things look set to move quickly next year! and they intend to continue growing.


Time to transfer 320 to 330 again until order dates are known we have to wait but the ideal situation the company would like is for everyone to be cross qualified, although a while away its not out of reach.


number of hours/month, night stops/month etc. -don't mind night stops!

Night stops are about to increase with the merge with BMED and there will be plenty to go around.
Flying hours contracted to 740 per year, above that overtime is triggered

My honest view is that its not the best about but nowhere near the worst, its my 3rd airline and as the saying goes if the glove fits!


rgds

Keepitlit

[skywaytoheaven]

Thanks for the reply keepitlit, no commands since 9/11? That is quite something...The company looks like its now going in the right direction though, thanks again.

[llanfairpg]

BMI is a very careful company which has ploughed a slow furrow in the industry but has stayed in business. Being a private company it never takes chances and seemingly has missed many opportunities where it has had a presence at airfields where others have shown it the way. EMA, LBA and BHX are prime examples. Its business style is to sell its assets to fund its expansion.

The looming question is will MB sell or not, he is now 65 and rumours are strong that he will soon. When he goes, so does a safe pair of hands.

The company has been held back by very poor musical chair management and still has too many 'inbred' operational mangers who have little understanding of people management or communication. The training department suffers from a very lack lustre management with many unsuitable senior trainers who create a bad atmosphere within the company.

[keepitlit]

LLanfairpg,


Whats that got to do with the flying side of things!
Im mot going down the slagging route but

Your not held at gun point to stay, if you dont like it!!!!

As I said before, if your not worried about the politics and are happy that your paid on time every month its not the worst by far.:D


rgds

Keepitlit

[Otterman]

A reply to Field in Sight post.

A conservative estimate would put the number of foreign pilots at KLM around 10% (total pilot group +2500). Their date of hire range from 1987 to around 1995. A number of these pilots have seniority to be wide-body captains. The majority of these pilots speak dutch. Many live abroad, as far afield as western Canada, and South Africa, but everyone is based out of Schiphol.

[JaJaBinx]

Keepitlit,
thanks for the info,
could you tell me average take home F/O London with pension/flight pay et al,
also do bmi have a Final Salary pension?
Thanks for the help!!

JJB

[Tinribs]

I spent over twenty years working for BMI mainly as a captain and as you would expect they seemed to me to be about average for the industry overall. The whole thing is held together by Sir Michael who has an amazing grip of the industry and steers his company remoetly. I never met a manager who had a management qualification indeed such would have been seen as very suspect. Managers generally stuck to the hard man approach and frequently seemed to use a what can we get away with rather than what is fair method of decision making. They frequently seemed to spend more time concealing or polishing their activities for the benefit of other managers rather than doing their stated jobs.

Training is excellent once away from the conversion centre which uses a weird second party training firm in their own training centre for initial training but BMI training captains thereafter

Terms and conditions were excellent but have been drawn back rather recently with pension changes and the like

Overall you could do much worse for a long term decision but if you can get BA or Virgin do

[llanfairpg]

Whats that got to do with the flying side of things!
Nothing if you are an anorak who just wants to fly aircraft, sorry I thought this was a discussion about making a career selection.

The option of leaving if you do not like it is not available to everyone but having said that the BMI pilot workforce is mainly composed those who have failed to get into BA and Virgin, those who are about to apply and those who are about to retire. The first mentioned can usually be recognised by making statements like, " if you do not like it you can always leave".

[Tinribs]

It is true that few of those in bmi would not consider a move but most many have other motivations which retain them

Some wish to continue working at a location of their choice, others want an early command possibly because of age to maximise earning during a limited career

Most of us were in bmi because they offered us a job and treated us fairly, certainly that applied to me

I was never happy with the standard of management or the motivation of managers decision making

Most managers worked hard at their jobs, not always with the deserved results. Some were merely self seeking in the decision making but mostly these were soon sussed and dumped back in the pool or sent to Baby

An airline that gets and keeps that many pilots over fifty years must be doing something right Generally problems are resolved well short of industrial action although it has been threatened a few times over the last 20 years. a few legal cases got to the court steps and one went to an indsutrial tribunal which they lost big style but mostly the problems were avoided by the top ranks Anyway they pay my pension regularly and I am not embarrased to say I worked for them. How many airlines can be spoken of in this way

The standard of training was excellent and unstinting, the trainers were highly commited and grossly overworked People with problems they were dealt with sensitively and fairly Crewing were the usual mix of decent folks and others using all sorts of fiddles to get the job done if you did not watch them Often partiality was available to pals

A demoted captain who spent years off sick returning for short periods as the end of his sick pay neared eventually retiring on pension. I never detected any pressure on him to leave or return to work if he did not want to, mostly the rest of us did not regret his abscence

[soullimbo]

Ottman wrote:

"A conservative estimate would put the number of foreign pilots at KLM around 10% (total pilot group +2500). Their date of hire range from 1987 to around 1995. A number of these pilots have seniority to be wide-body captains. The majority of these pilots speak dutch. Many live abroad, as far afield as western Canada, and South Africa, but everyone is based out of Schiphol."

Any idea how many Dutch commercial pilots are unemployed? Any idea how many of these will never be able to fly at your airline which only allows their own graduates or foreigners when ever it suits them? To be honest with you, your job should have been given to a real Dutch man before your airline even considers hiring foreigners. It sickens me.

[bfisk]

That must be the largest BUMP I've ever seen. :ok:

[Knee Trembler]

@soullimbo

And you sicken me :mad:.

[Otterman]

Soullimbo, LOL.
I realize this comes from extreme frustration, but welcome to the real world! My son is currently going through the KLS (his mother is a tall stunning Dutch woman), and his outlook is far from certain, luckily he has his age going for him. There are no guarantees for a job at KLM or anywhere for him, anymore.

I think it is close to folly to train as a pilot in the Netherlands (the only reason my son is doing it, is because he was accepted into the KLS). This is especially true if you come outside of the scope of the big training centers. At the end of this year there will be over 300 ex-KLS students sitting at home, add to this the other training programs (I have heard numbers in excess of 400 from those), and I can guarantee you that these pilots will never, ever be absorbed into the Dutch aviation scene. Regardless of the numbers of hated foreigners like myself. The prognosis at KLM is that we won’t need anybody for the next three years. Martinair won’t ever be hiring any new pilots (all new pilots will be sourced through KLM), Transavia is only allowed to grow at the behest of Air France/KLM’s needs. This leaves Arke fly and I am not sure what their ultimate size will be. This is the Dutch market.

If people bought into the glossy brochures at all these training institutes, and the smooth talk from the commissioned salesman at the schools, I feel for you. It is near criminal that these schools are allowed to keep pumping people into this market. All it gets you is a debt as big as buying a house (without the tax write-off and the roof over your head).

Currently I fly for a French airline, not one of KLM’s share is in the hands of any Dutchman. The lot of my airline is in the hands of these “foreigners”. They have been great to me, and I still have over 10 years left as a wide-body captain with KLM.

I wish you the best. Maybe voting for Wilders will solve your issues. In the meantime send out your resume to all these foreign airlines, in the hope that they are willing to employ an economic refugee from the Netherlands.

And if you ever make it to the interview board at KLM I will enjoy our conversation! Personality is something that weighs very heavily these days, I think it is time for you to do some work in that area.:ugh::ugh:

O.

[Knee Trembler]

And the German schools produced around 900 hundred pilots last year chasing around 2-300 jobs.

But wait! If we kick all of the Dutch pilots out of LH (some of whom are friends BTW;-)) then there will be more jobs for the true blooded Germans!

I sometimes wonder whether we've learned anything from two wars and the efforts of so many to create a European common market!

Nevertheless, I do have sympathy with anyone on the outside at the moment. Patience and persistence are the only answer. I've lived / worked through three recessions now and however dark it seems, eventually things will get better.

KT