Rank Badges

[GeoAC]

Watched the Falklands thingy last week(MAGGIES Re -election doofer,which cost the lives of totally innocent servicemen!),and apart from laughing like a laughing person at the Navy attempt at Parade stuff, I was scratching my head wondering why the SAC`s badge is now enclosed in a circle. BUT at the same time ,I saw SAC`s wearing the same as I did!

[jayteeto]

Didnt see it,but could it be the apprentices wheel that used to be used??

[Never Alert]

The circle dictates that the SAC is a technician and is a replacement of the traditional 4 prop JT.

Somebody decided that the JT rank was no longer required and replaced it with the SAC (T) rank, clearly reducing the administrative workload...:ugh:

Waste of time & money.

[Mactlsm1]

BTW
Apprentices had a 4-bladed prop sorrounded by a circle - aka the "Apprentice Wheel" - Allegedly!! :E (Note - not 6 blades!!!!)

Mac

[Blacksheep]

"Real" Junior Magicians had a single upside down stripe. :p

[Robert Cooper]

Too true blacksheep. and then there were the two and three stripes upside down too.

Real techie days.:)

Bob C

[Big Bear]

The 3 bladed prop is just another demonstration of the policy makers being unable to admit they were wrong. 'Don't phase out JTs and call all Junior Rank technicians SACs, it will completely confuse eng manning' said most of the JO Engineers and SNCO Technicians in the RAF. However, as usual, those upon high didn't listen to those that knew and a few years later we had to have a new rank badge to clear up the confusion with eng manning (funny old thing). Instead of admitting the mistake and re-introducing the JT rank, they who must be obeyed thought they could pull the wool over our eyes and prove that they were forward thinking by introducing a totally new badge. Why not just go back to back to what we had - It wasn't broke - so don't fix it! It is time that we got rid of that silly SACs badge with the circle and give technicians the recognition that they deserve - Bring back the 4 bladed prop.

Bear

[Pontius Navigator]

Big Bear, quite agree.

How can they argue that we should get rid of JT and CT, and PO as well IIRC and we at least let the JT rank go whereas the Army has privates, lance cpl, cpl etc.

On the WO1/2/MAcr basis that makes all SAC as equivalent to Army Cpls. (AC, LAC, SAC)

[Windbag]

As usual with all of these policies, it was all attached to money. SAC(T)s get paid less than they would have done as a Jelly Tot, but then again I doubt they are as much use as a JT cos they get it much earlier too. The Modern Apprenticeship that they serve means that they stay in training for significantly longer and have a significant personal education burden after 'formal' training. All of which is then passed onto the SNCOs and JOs to manage and make sure that they have a useable man. Next we'll be bringing FLEMs back.....:rolleyes:

Is that my coat?!?!....

[Shiney Pencil]

An SAC(T) does not get paid less than a JT. They are both on the higher pay band regardless of rank ie SAC(T) or JT.

[easyDays]

http://www.rafcom.co.uk/pay_allowances/pay/2007/raf_air_07.cfm

http://www.army.mod.uk/servingsoldier/condofserv/mm/afprb__change_to_soldier_rates_of_pay.htm

[Fg Off Max Stout]

MAGGIES Re -election doofer,which cost the lives of totally innocent servicemen!

Can't let you slip that in and get away with it. The Falklands War was probably the last war with absolutely black and white moral justification for us to get involved in: British sovereign territory invaded by force by a foreign power; British citizens at the mercy of a brutal foreign military junta. There is simply no question about the rights and wrongs of OP CORPORATE. The campaign had almost unanimous support, with the exception of the communist backed trade unions.

I would suggest that to descibe it as 'Maggie's re-election doofer etc' is a gross miscalculation. Perhaps you should be focussing on Mr Blair's legacy of expeditions to foreign lands.

[Mightycrewseven]

I was one of the "lucky" few who took part in the parade on Sunday. (We also laughed at the Navy's attempt at getting from A to B in a military fashion - although I understand Prince Andrew was far worse than anyone else at 'skipping' up The Mall)

Anyway, whilst we were waiting (patiently), at the QV Memorial, for the flypast, Maggie steps out of her Jag to have a chat with the Paras. She instantly gets a "3 Cheers for Maggie" from the Red Beret vets. However, this was shortly followed by the most evil look from Mrs Bliar! Obviously aware that her and her husband are not likely to get the same reception 25 years from now! :bored:

[teeteringhead]

Talk of airmen's rank badges reminds me of a story from a secret Shropshire helicopter training base a few years ago.

Some foreign mil were visiting the Station (Arms Control Visit??) and at the all-ranks after work beer call in their honour, smooth-talking East European Officer was chatting up young, easy-on-the-eye SACW.

EE Officer spies the rank tabs and says "Aha! A helicopter rotor! You must be on zee helicopter squadron!"

SACW: "Oh no sir! It's just the rank we all wear ....... I'm on Admin Wing, we're nothing to do with the flying!"

Unfortunately the Staish was listening............;)

[Windbag]

Recently heard a similar thing from a Tonka SEngO, stated that he was going to be DetCo and Air Power was nothing to do with him!! Sound of several chins hitting floor even from non-master race studes!

[cliver029]

As a boy entrant at Cosford multimillion years ago the boy entrant wheel won us many free drinks when on leave because we were "trainee helidopter crew" from a station in shropshire.:hmm: and the chequered hat band well that really worked a treat!

[snapper41]

MAGGIES Re -election doofer,which cost the lives of totally innocent servicemen!

Can't agree with you there; British territory had been invaded, plain and simple, and we went to get it back.

[BluntedAtBirth]

As a boy entrant at Cosford multimillion years ago the boy entrant wheel won us many free drinks when on leave because we were "trainee helidopter crew" from a station in shropshire.:hmm: and the chequered hat band well that really worked a treat!


I believe it was traditional to claim that SAC rank slides showed you flew Gazelle but the JT '4-blader' was for Puma.

[Bladdered]

Fg Odd MS

Had to choke myself when I saw that comment - agree entirely. Invasion of Sovereign Territory - no brainer!

Ed

[AR1]

Agree with general concensus, an armed response was entirely appropriate - and never heard a dissenting voice at the time.

I once claimed that I was a Tail Gunner in a Harrier, when a couple of Navy lads spotted my holdall on a train one christmas - it threw them for a few minuites.

They got thier own back by drawing an enormous kn*b with wings, on the box containing my girlfreinds Christmas present!

The J/T rank was a good crack, (notwithstanding the 40% pay rise from SAC), if you said the whole 'junior technician' title quickly enough on answering the phone, people assumed you were a 'Chief' - as that rank was never abbreviated in speech. Amazing how much more polite people were if they thought you were a Chief!!:)

[8-15fromOdium]

The 3 bladed prop is just another demonstration of the policy makers being unable to admit they were wrong. 'Don't phase out JTs and call all Junior Rank technicians SACs, it will completely confuse eng manning' said most of the JO Engineers and SNCO Technicians in the RAF. However, as usual, those upon high didn't listen to those that knew and a few years later we had to have a new rank badge to clear up the confusion with eng manning (funny old thing). Instead of admitting the mistake and re-introducing the JT rank, they who must be obeyed thought they could pull the wool over our eyes and prove that they were forward thinking by introducing a totally new badge. Why not just go back to back to what we had - It wasn't broke - so don't fix it! It is time that we got rid of that silly SACs badge with the circle and give technicians the recognition that they deserve - Bring back the 4 bladed prop.

The RAF reinvent the 'Wheel' - never!!

[Len Ganley]

PN
On the WO1/2/MAcr basis that makes all SAC as equivalent to Army Cpls. (AC, LAC, SAC)

I think you will find that the Army equivalent to SAC is Colonel.:ok:
Adjust accordingly for all other RAF ranks.

[John Purdey]

Mactlsm1 Not sure why you say ' Allegedly' The four bladed prop was for many years the proud distinguishing badge of Aircraft Apprentices, Boy Entrants and other volunteers who joined at a very early age (15 1/2 to 17) in an era when whinging about conditions of service was not fashionable. End of rant!

[EmeraldToilet]

On the WO1/2/MAcr basis that makes all SAC as equivalent to Army Cpls. (AC, LAC, SAC)

They would have to be NCO's for that surely.

[Mactlsm1]

Rank Badges
Mactlsm1 Not sure why you say ' Allegedly' The four bladed prop was for many years the proud distinguishing badge of Aircraft Apprentices, Boy Entrants and other volunteers who joined at a very early age (15 1/2 to 17) in an era when whinging about conditions of service was not fashionable. End of rant!

John, I did NOT intend to cause anybody to rant, indeed I am one of those who wore that very badge (proudly). I went through at the time when the badge was being brought back in (78-81), so you can also see that I was a youngster when I joined. I accepted the conditions of service then....and still do now.
Mac