Logging PIC Time in the US as a 'Safety Pilot'

[sjwalla2]

I recently got my Australian CPL and am considering going to the US to build 100 hrs multi engine PIC time.

In the US you can log PIC time as a
safety pilot as long as the other pilot is under the hood in VFR conditions. (Far’s 91.109). The safety pilot can not log PIC if they enter IMC unless the safety pilot has a CFII and MEI and is giving dual.

Does anyone know whether you can log this 'VFR Safety Pilot PIC' time on a CAA license or would it have to be Co-Pilot time?

[potkettleblack]

You cannot log safety pilot time for a CAA or JAA licence. There are loads of threads discussing this topic, some of which will be in the private flying forum. Try searching on Ari Ben Aviator as that is the thread that it most debated on.

In order for 2 pilots in the same aircraft to both log time one would need to be an instructor, the other would then log p/ut (dual instruction or pilot under training). The other exception would be if you had a type rating on a multi pilot aircraft and flew that.

But for your plain vanilla C152 or BE76 type of thing even if the other guy is under the hood then the "safety pilot" can't log it for JAA. You would need to run two log books for your time in the US.

Your best bet would be to enquire about prices for you to fly the aircraft solely. I think Ari Ben now have a JAA price for guys that can't log any safety pilot time. Make sure you are the only pilot in the actual aircraft as well just to be on the safe side.

[Aviator500]

PotKettleBlack. Do you know if the JAA pilots can log Co-Pilot time when acting as a safety pilot. If so, is it because an a/c such as a BE76 is single pilot operation only?

[FlightDetent]

Av500: The way you describe it, no. In fact, viewing through the JAR-FCL 1 glass, your question does not make much of a sense. Before we start to make any conclusions, the term "safety pilot" needs to be defined.

FD.

PS: SF essentially is a healthy crewmember required to complemet an older (=most experienced) PIC who has a restricted medical. But that is obviously not the point here.

['I' in the sky]

No you can't log it as co pilot time. Unless the aircraft or operation is certified as needing two pilots there is no such thing as a co pilot.

[portsharbourflyer]

Flight Detent,

In this instance Safety Pilot is referring to the second pilot carried to act as an observer while the PIC is flying simulated IMC under screens or hood while flying in accordance with visual flight rules.

[Aviator500]

So from what I can gather here, in a single pilot operation a/c you can only log PIC time in the left seat, manipulating the controls if you hold a CAA or JAA license? It appears that only holders of the FAA license can log PIC if acting as a 'Safety Pilot' (simulated IMC in VFR conditions with pilot in left seat under the hood) under their regulation Far’s 91.109. I noticed this FAR under flyaviator.com

[FlightDetent]

Av500: I am ready to could give you an overview of JAA time logging practices, if you want to. Given your situation (hooray for you having specified your question so well!), I do not think those would apply. See, time-loggin wise, there is no such thing called SfP, although the term comes straight from ICAO Annex 2.

3.2.4 Simulated instrument flights
An aircraft shall not be flown under simulated instrument flight conditions unless:a) fully functioning dual controls are installed in the aircraft; and
b) a qualified pilot occupies a control seat to act as safety pilot for the person who is flying under simulated instrument conditions. The safety pilot shall have adequate vision forward and to each side of the aircraft, or a competent observer in communication with the safety pilot shall occupy a position in the aircraft from which the observer’s field of vision adequately supplements that of the safety pilot.Under JAA rules I think such SfP will always be an instructor occupying second seat on a IR course or refresher. S/He will log PIC time and FI time. The pilot flying will log either dual (i.e. trainee) or Student PIC in case instructor's intervention is not needed.

pottle: Is it possible under JAA to go for a simulated instrument time practice without an instructor? From your post I gather that FAA allows it and the SfP even may log such time.

[portsharbourflyer]

The wording does say a "suitable qualified person"; doesn't entail it needs to be an instructor, providing the pilot under the hood is already trained in instrument flying then it suggests that when practicing instrument flying under simulated IMC any other pilot could act as a safety pilot (as stated only the handling pilot can log the time under JAA).

[Rfortes]

Guys,
I had the same doubt.
Have a look at this site:
http://www.pilotjourney.com/Aviation_Training/Instrument_Pilot/PIC%3A_Who_Is_It?_Who_Can_Log_It?/

Hope this will help clarifying the issue.
Ric

[Megaton]

Doesn't really help since it refers to US FARs and not JARs.

[Aviator500]

What about general ICAO licenses - Australian?