Annoyed with other pax attitudes... Nimes to Luton & back again [Archive]

FirmamentFX

13th Jun 2007, 20:52

Hi guys,

Before I start my rant, I want to make it clear that I think I was just very unlucky on the 2 recent flights I took to be with some pax from hell... I also think that the Brits who visit the Nimes/Uzes area contain a higher percentage of arrogant to**ers than perhaps other areas...

Anyway, I was on Ryanair flights Nimes (LFTW) to Luton (EGGW) on Tuesday, and returning by the same route earlier today (despite being a Brit, I now live near Nimes)

Why do some passengers believe that the rules do not apply to them? This regards the size of hand luggage, baggage weight, not having the correct paperwork, getting up before the seat belt sign has been switched off etc etc.

I'm sorry, but I do NOT believe that you "always travel with this as hand luggage and it's not a problem" when you are trying to persuade the check in clerk to allow you to take a full size suitcase on board... I do not necessarily think that RYR's policy of charging high costs for checking in baggage is a good one, but them is the rules folks... That's how it is...

Also, people's attitudes towards cabin staff - just because they are mostly Eastern European and - yes - for some the English language has not yet been fully mastered, does not give you the right to treat them as 2nd class citizens

Finally, and this is in my mind the most disgusting, today's flight from Luton was packed, and among the last to board was a family with a downs child - no more than about 3. As it was packed there was no way they could all sit together, so dad went off to the back of the plane, and mum and child found a row near the front with 1 empty seat each side.

Despite asking VERY politely if it would be possible for the woman on the aisle to move to the other side - just for takeoff and landing - this woman was a complete ar*e and would NOT move. It eventually took most of the cabin crew to get her to move, and she did it with such bad grace, and made a comment under her breath about the child which I will not repeat here.

I just hate that passengers these days do not have any common courtesy or decency, and also that everyone seems to believe they are a "special case" and rules designed to make it pretty easy and fair for passengers should not therefore apply to them.

I don't agree with many of Ryanair's policies on charging or seating (especially now charging for Priority Boarding), but that's the way it is... If you don't like it get the TGV.

Cabin staff - I salute you for doing what in so many ways must be a thankless task, in which whatever you do is perceived to be wrong by somebody.

Ok rant over, :rolleyes:

Martin

Bangkokeasy

14th Jun 2007, 07:57

Your experience sounds pretty typical of the average loco flight and is an inevitable result of the combination of people who have never really been able to afford to fly before, and the idea that you can get something for nothing. Anyone who has taken a loco flight as SLF will have a similar horror story to tell.

I think there is an urgent need to address the problem of ill-informed and unruly passengers under these circumstances. Personally, I am in favour of issuing CC with electric cattle prods.

I have to say that this isn't usually a problem out here in the Orient, although I have come close in India and China. At least one loco carrier, Air Asia, intends to launch loco flights between this part of Asia and Europe, which is a prospect I dread. At the moment, UK citizens are regarded with some measure of respect out here, which is in large part due to our polite and understated demeanour, compared to some other nationalities. With isolated exceptions, the more undesirable rabble doesn't make it out here. One reason why the UK is still regarded as a desirable place for Asians to aspire to live, is their experience of UK people. They often don't realise that what they encounter out here is a rather unrepresentative elite, only to receive a rude wake up call, when they get the the UK and meet the other half.

smala01

14th Jun 2007, 12:33

"pretty typical of the average loco flight and is an inevitable result of the combination of people who have never really been able to afford to fly before, and the idea that you can get something for nothing."

I must say that in my experience it is those who have the money but choose to fly loco that are generally the "arrogant to**ers"

Avman

14th Jun 2007, 13:05

I agree that the woman could have shown more compassion. Nevertheless, the real blame lies with RYR and their contemptible treatment of pax with special requirements - all in the name of quick turnarounds. The advent of low cost air travel now allows the lowest examples of the human race to fly. RYR don't help the situation by treating their pax like cattle (e.g. the great rush for a seat) which in itself can cause irritation and confrontation among the pax. Yes, of course it is possible (as many will testify) to have a great trouble-free flight with RYR, but equally it is also more likely that if you will have a bad experience it will be with RYR too! I recently flew on Canada's loco, WESTJET. Preboard for pax with kids and pax needing assistance, seat allocation, seat pockets, basic but free in-flight service (with a smile), no hidden costs. And they achieve short turnaround times too.

Final 3 Greens

14th Jun 2007, 13:16

There is another point though.

Let's be clear that I am not talking about this particular incident.

if you have paid for priority seating and then are asked to move from the seats that you chose when using the service, you are, in effect, being asked to give up the privilege you paid for.

So how would you feel about someone in a restaurant asking if you mind awfully if they have some of your chips, cos they're hungry?

The whole system is detestable in my opinion and is likely to generate conflict.

FirmamentFX

14th Jun 2007, 15:52

If you have paid for priority seating and then are asked to move from the seats that you chose when using the service, you are, in effect, being asked to give up the privilege you paid for.Agreed; somewhat unwillingly, but agreed nonetheless :p

Personally, I would give up any seat for someone with genuine special needs - if I was asked by a perfectly healthy person then I would get annoyed.

All that was asked was that she move from the left hand aisle seat to the right hand one... She was still just as close to the front

However:

The advent of low cost air travel now allows the lowest examples of the human race to fly. RYR don't help the situation by treating their pax like cattleAlso agreed.

I was under the impression that even though this "priority" system has been implemented (which is even worse than the "1-61", "62+" system of the past), special needs and families with children could board first... Is this no longer the case?

The whole system is detestable in my opinion and is likely to generate conflict.

Absolutely!

However, company policy is still not the fault of the cabin staff. I notice none of the passengers ever bawl out the captain or FO at the end of a flight for being late or ATC delays - it's always the cabin crew. I know they are the "visible front" of the company, but they are not personally responsible...

Cheers!

Martin

Dan Air 87

14th Jun 2007, 19:50

I quite agree here; I have given up using Ryanair after similar treatment on my trips to France. But as someone says you pays your money and takes your chance.

I prefer to cough up a bit more and go with Air France who's cabin crew are much more civilised and its a proper airline service. Ranty over.

SXB

14th Jun 2007, 20:05

Nevertheless, the real blame lies with RYR and their contemptible treatment of pax with special requirementsAgree 100% Avman

Also I agree with F3G's comments regarding RYR's boarding policy and lack of pre-assigned seats.

I will not fly with RYR because I will not be treated in a sub human manner nor will I accept consistently low levels of customer service, many of us here can afford to pay extra and travel with a real airline, others cannot or just choose not to. Either way if you book a trip with RYR you have a fair idea of what you will get, or what you won't get.

Most airlines deal with passengers with special needs in a sympathetic manner , I think RYR are the exception.

As for the inference that RYR have a higher percentage of 'pond scum' travelling on their aircraft than other airlines I'm not sure. Pond scum rear their ugly heads everywhere. I was in the business class cabin of a LH flight from Tbilisi to Munich last week and witnessed some of the worst, drunken, abuse towards a flight attendent I've ever seen on an aircraft. The individuals in question, who I"m assuming were Russian simply because they spoke Russian and because of their comments, were refused alcohol because they were drunk (this was a 03.55 departure) I won't go into details but if the attendent in question had spoken Russian I'm sure they'd have been met by the police on arrival in Munich.

Pond scum are everywhere and RYR don't have a monopoly.

FirmamentFX

14th Jun 2007, 20:39

Living close to Nimes I do not have much choice of carrier... The other option would be to do Gatwick to Marseille (Gatwick is not very close and Marseille is almost 2 hours away from home this end) with EasyJet or go into Nice with a choice of carrier - 3 hours drive is a lot though...

I have never personally had a problem with RYR cabin staff, but have heard many many stories from those that have!

One "cheap" carrier that I have been consistently impressed with is Aer Lingus - I travelled a lot with them in 2005 between Dublin and France and found them to be polite, efficient, and above all, comfortable.

Remember though that the airports also have a lot to do with comfort.... Luton and Stansted are not as comfortable as Heathrow - in fact I was pleasantly shocked when I went through Heathrow a few months ago, having travelled mainly from "smaller" UK airports for the past 3 years.

I do know what to expect when I travel with Ryanair, and I accept it. Tuesday and Wednesday's flights though were far worse than usual, and in this case it was not (directly) RYRs fault... Although to be sure they did not help the situation.

Cheers!

Martin

slim_slag

15th Jun 2007, 01:03

I have no criminal record, pay me taxes on time, never claimed off the state, and drink less than 20 units a week (or that's what I make sure is on my medical record).

I fly Ryanair a lot and think they are brilliant. Does that also make me 'pond scum' who deserves to be greeted at the door with a cattle prod?

What is it about these Ryanair threads?

Final 3 Greens

15th Jun 2007, 05:48

I fly Ryanair a lot and think they are brilliant. Does that also make me 'pond scum' who deserves to be greeted at the door with a cattle prod?

SXB's point is precisely that 'pond scum' are not exclusive to RYR or any carrier and I agree with him.

I occasionally use RYR from Malta to Luton, as I have a client in Luton and it is convenient and generally the other pax are pleasant individuals, who behave impeccably.

However, the system the airline operates does not promote the better side of human nature!

As to the capabilities of RYR CC (in line with the first post), although as some say they can lack English skills beyond the basic level required to do the job, there was a medical emergency the last time I travelled with them and the crew reaction was swift and effective.

I was impressed and told the No1 so after things had calmed down. He was only in his mid twenties and the other 2 crew involved were even younger, but they did work very well as a team.

They were in the rear galley afterwards and looked quite stressed, which is understandable, but the point is when called upon, they delivered.

As I was speaking, the two young women (who sounded Czech when they spoke) broke into smiles and I realised that they really are very young people doing a demanding and tough job in the loco context - no wonder they often look stern.

FHA

15th Jun 2007, 08:31

Back to post #1: the woman who wouldn't help the family with the special needs child? Honestly, someone should've helped the b#stard descend the steps a bit quicker. That's just appalling.

Final 3 Greens

15th Jun 2007, 08:43

Back to post #1: the woman who wouldn't help the family with the special needs child? Honestly, someone should've helped the b#stard descend the steps a bit quicker. That's just appalling.

You're missing the point FHA, special needs pax are preloaded and looked after on other airlines.

And the woman may have paid for the privilege of selecting that seat - perhaps she is claustrophobic or has some other reason she needed to sit there.

Without knowing the facts, you are judging prematurely, for example I could conclude from your expressed view that you are an intellectual lightweight, incapable of expressing yourself with resort to bad language, who doesn't think things through and exhorts violence as a solution.

I doubt that that is fair comment and neither is your post.

slim_slag

15th Jun 2007, 08:43

F3G,

SXB post is completely irrelevent to an airline thread and is more appropriate in Jet Blast where they moan about how society is falling apart and let's bring back the birch.

You cannot blame an airline because people get drunk and turn obnoxious. It happens everywhere. An airline is not responsible for the ills of society. In fact, looking at the way airlines treat people in 'cattle' class, it is surprising that people don't get upset even more than they do. No, they just get on with it.

Perhaps we should be congratulating Ryanair for making people pay for booze thus making it far more likely that disruptive behaviour will occur. It is a coincidence that SXB dropped in to the conversation he was in business class, where booze is free, as it would be in the lounge?

Whenever Ryanair gets mentioned the 'social elitism' is not far behind. I find it strange that the most dismissive people are the ones that rarely fly the carrier. I have a theory on that, maybe some other time.

Final 3 Greens

15th Jun 2007, 08:48

Slim

Strangely enough, I read SXB's post in a different way to you.

1 - he doesn't like their service offering and doesn't use them as a consequence

2 - he states that all airlines have problem pax, not just RYR and illustrates it with an example from LH business class

That seems to me to be fair comment, I agree that pond life are found on all airlines and don't see a correlation (positive or negative) with any particular airline

slim_slag

15th Jun 2007, 08:57

F3G,

I didn't say it wasn't a fair comment. I said it was more suitable for Jet Blast.

If you open up airline travel to 'the masses', then 'the masses' are going to fly. Simple as that.

A2QFI

15th Jun 2007, 08:58

I have flown as a passenger for many years and with RYR a lot recently as they are all I can afford. They are the only airline I have ever travelled with where a passenger has been invited to get his/her nose out of their paper and pay attention to the safety brief. I know the briefing off by heart but I still have the courtesy to pay full attention to what I am being told. I note that some RYR aircraft now have the life jackets up in the overhead panels with the O2 masks and not under the seats any more - worth knowing! To keep on thread I should say that drunk and/or obnoxious pax can be found on any airline. Maybe more on RYR as they carry so many pax!

Final 3 Greens

15th Jun 2007, 09:00

If you open up airline travel to 'the masses', then 'the masses' are going to fly. Simple as that.

That's a very good point and I agree with it.

Final 3 Greens

15th Jun 2007, 09:03

Perhaps we should be congratulating Ryanair for making people pay for booze thus making it far more likely that disruptive behaviour will occur.

Are you saying that pax behave badly because they have to pay for booze? ;)

That's a new social science theory - maybe we can find a precedent going back to Marie Antoinette and bread :}

slim_slag

15th Jun 2007, 09:04

Ooo 'eck, bit of a typo there, lol.

One obviously mean't it the other way round :)

Final 3 Greens

15th Jun 2007, 09:09

The true meaning was obvious, couldn't resist a bit of fun :}

Bangkokeasy

15th Jun 2007, 10:01

Well, actually, F3G, I couldn't agree more. I am inclined to get disruptive and obnoxious when asked to pay for booze. Nothing like a free drop or two to keep me pacified.

But, I disagree that all airlines suffer equally from the scourge of unwashed and unrefined SLF. There will always be exceptions on all carriers, but for the locos it is the norm.

But what I was trying to get at a while back, was that maybe there should be some sort of guidance or "training" as to how to be a passenger?

slim_slag

15th Jun 2007, 10:31

I think you will find that the demographics of a planeload of ryanair passengers is 'superior' to that of the general population. Now I have no idea what 'superior' means, but I am sure you do.

SXB

15th Jun 2007, 13:18

Perhaps we should be congratulating Ryanair for making people pay for booze thus making it far more likely that disruptive behaviour will occur. It is a coincidence that SXB dropped in to the conversation he was in business class, where booze is free, as it would be in the lounge?

Slim Slag, the alcoholic drinks were not free, there were included in the, very substantial, price of my ticket.

slim_slag

15th Jun 2007, 13:25

They are free when it suits your argument

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2962419&postcount=4

However I would agree they are not free. However the approach that several legacy carriers takes by not charging at the point of delivery would possibly increase the possibility of a passenger being drunk on board, which is what you witnessed.

FirmamentFX

15th Jun 2007, 14:02

At the risk of repeating myself for the sake of clarity:

I certainly didn't mean to stir up the hornet's nest of social classification and elitism, and I am in total agreement that "pond scum" (I have grown fond of that phrase... ;) ) travel on all airlines.

However, a greater proportion will travel on the low cost airlines.

I fly Ryanair a lot and think they are brilliant. Does that also make me 'pond scum' who deserves to be greeted at the door with a cattle prod?

What is it about these Ryanair threads?

Slim_slag, absolutely not. Due to my location, I travel almost exclusively Ryanair, so if I consider you "pond scum" then I must also consider myself in the same bracket as well.... :rolleyes:

Regarding Ryanair threads in general, I disagree passionately with company policy in so many ways, and for so many reasons. However, my point is that company policy is not the "fault" of the cabin or flight crew.

Pax should accept that if they choose (or must) travel with Ryanair then they should be aware of the policies that exist, and not shout, scream, or otherwise be rude to cabin crew who have to enforce those policies. Those are the "pond scum" I detest - people who will lash out without knowing, or realising, the true facts of a given situation.

You're missing the point FHA, special needs pax are preloaded and looked after on other airlines.

Yes, and I was under the impression that they still were on RYR. Obviously not...

And the woman may have paid for the privilege of selecting that seat - perhaps she is claustrophobic or has some other reason she needed to sit there.

True. However, in that case I would have expected (ha! How arrogant does that sound? "I would have expected..." Christ... :p) her to politely explain why she could not move. To be so nasty, and then make a nasty comment about the child, is completely out of order...

Cheers!

Martin

Final 3 Greens

15th Jun 2007, 14:05

Martin

You were there - I accept your view of things.

I wasn't and neither was FHA.

SXB

15th Jun 2007, 14:06

SS
Your link is splitting hairs.

However I would agree they are not free. However the approach that several legacy carriers takes by not charging at the point of delivery would possibly increase the possibility of a passenger being drunk on board, which is what you witnessed.

In some cases maybe but generally I think not. The preparation for drunkeness on an aircraft seems to take place in the pay bars around the departure lounge and before arrival at the airport. I can't say I've noticed too many drunks staggering around the business class lounge.

For the two guys in question.... to become that drunk requires dedication and preparation and they must have been drinking hours before arriving at the airport. Maybe they shouldn't have been allowed on the plane but on a 03.55 departure all the passengers look red eyed and tired so if a drunk doesn't open his mouth he'll be able to board.

Avman

15th Jun 2007, 16:20

To be honest, two drunk Russians is not that unusual. Unfortunately, the new young Russian mafia now fly Business Class - and still be drunk! They have no respect for anything or anyone.

lexxity

15th Jun 2007, 19:09

You're missing the point FHA, special needs pax are preloaded and looked after on other airlines.

The vast majority of airlines will accommodate families and those with special requirements. However, there are still legacy carriers that treat their pax reprehensibly. I dealt with a family of six transferring onto a regional today, they had been treated abysmally by the carrier that brought them in. Seated all over the economy cabin of their longhaul flight. The four children were 15, 11, 6 and 4! The pax had to move around the aircraft to sort their own seats out. This same carrier had rerouted them onto our later service, but in doing so had overbooked the economy cabin, therefore leaving me no seats.

Solution? We moved the curtain and found them six seats together so the children could be looked after.

Anyway, (rambling as ever) my point is that RYR certainly aren't alone in treating pax badly.

SXB

15th Jun 2007, 20:16

Martin
You have my sympathy.....

Just as an alternative have you thought about taking the TGV ? I know Nimes is on their route network. The TGV has just arrived here in Strasbourg and I can now do the trip to central london in a shade over 6 hours, that's 6 hours from leaving my house to stepping onto the platform at London Waterloo. I've done the maths and it's quicker than going by air. A lot depends on whereabouts you need to be in London. It's also a lot less stressful as a journey. The days of me travelling to London airports have ceased. Permanently.

Avman
I've been travelling around Russia since the 1990's and IMO there are a lot less drunken Russians around than there used to be. The problem is that more of them are travelling so they're more visible.

FirmamentFX

15th Jun 2007, 21:10

Just as an alternative have you thought about taking the TGV ? I know Nimes is on their route network. The TGV has just arrived here in Strasbourg and I can now do the trip to central london in a shade over 6 hours, that's 6 hours from leaving my house to stepping onto the platform at London Waterloo. I've done the maths and it's quicker than going by air. A lot depends on whereabouts you need to be in London. It's also a lot less stressful as a journey. The days of me travelling to London airports have ceased. Permanently.

I actually looked into it today for a July 3 - 4 trip to London. I have done it several times before - normally changing at Lille (saves crossing Paris), and as I live in Central London (I can in fact get a bus from Waterloo to my door...) it is very convenient.

However, at £160 (220 Euros or so) each way - and Ryanair from Montpelier to Stansted being a total of 31 Euros return (I don't have check in luggage :E ) - even with transfers it works out cheaper...

Although I do appreciate it is actually faster by train if you take into account check in and airport transfer times etc.

And I can take more than 15KG without being charged.

In fact, I can take more then 0KG without being charged :p

And the coffee is drinkable.

And I can carry deodorant and toothpaste in my bag without having to buy it in London for 1 night...

Hmmm....

Where's my cattle pr... sorry, credit card?

;)

Martin

FirmamentFX

15th Jun 2007, 21:12

Anyway, (rambling as ever) my point is that RYR certainly aren't alone in treating pax badly.

Absolutely. And I am as guilty as anyone of this - they do appear to have become the whipping boy for shoddy airline treatment.

I will say it is not totally undeserved though.

M

SXB

15th Jun 2007, 22:17

Martin
A possible saving of €300 is a powerful argument for taking RYR. On a business trip I would never entertain the idea of using them, period. On a leisure trip, where it was just myself, I would think about for a while and then pay the extra €300. If I were taking the whole family, four of us, then I would be faced with a difficult decision, €1200 is a significant amount of money.

Fortunately for me I don't have to make that decision as I live within driving distance of Strasbourg, Bale, Frankfurt and Stuttgart, in fact I can even transit CDG if necessary, plenty of alternatives exist. If I had to make that decision then I'd take RYR.

Good luck !

RealFish

15th Jun 2007, 22:36

Interesting discussion this.

According to Leo Hairy Camel, he was going to change the face of civil aviation forever with his particular brand of aviation and business model. But I am begining to believe that the excitement of Ryanair et al is showing the first signs of wearing thin somewhat.

I took an early flight out to Malaga last week on BA (Gerbil). It was interesting to overhear the reactions of customers, obviously making their first flight on BA, as they entered the cabin..commented on the leather seats...and had beakfast..and drinks. 'Much better' was the consensus of a hen party on its way to AGP for a good time - pity that my hotel was an hour and a bit further south !

The flight back was rammed, both Euro Traveller and Club Europe. Evidence that people want something more, I would suggest - and are prepared to pay for it, although amazingly having looked at prices beforehand (for a last minute trip admittedly), BA beat both FR and EZ.

I reckon, to corrupt an old quotation, that rumours of the death of full service carriers are greatly exagerated.

FirmamentFX

16th Jun 2007, 00:07

According to Leo Hairy Camel, he was going to change the face of civil aviation forever with his particular brand of aviation and business model. But I am begining to believe that the excitement of Ryanair et al is showing the first signs of wearing thin somewhat.

I took an early flight out to Malaga last week on BA (Gerbil). It was interesting to overhear the reactions of customers, obviously making their first flight on BA, as they entered the cabin..commented on the leather seats...and had beakfast..and drinks. 'Much better' was the consensus of a hen party on its way to AGP for a good time - pity that my hotel was an hour and a bit further south !

The flight back was rammed, both Euro Traveller and Club Europe. Evidence that people want something more, I would suggest - and are prepared to pay for it, although amazingly having looked at prices beforehand (for a last minute trip admittedly), BA beat both FR and EZ.

I reckon, to corrupt an old quotation, that rumours of the death of full service carriers are greatly exagerated.

Definitely. For many, the idea of traveling in comfort (and being treated as human) is worth the extra money you pay.

If I were making occasional trips to a destination I would absolutely take this line...

However:

A possible saving of €300 is a powerful argument for taking RYR. On a business trip I would never entertain the idea of using them, period. On a leisure trip, where it was just myself, I would think about for a while and then pay the extra €300. If I were taking the whole family, four of us, then I would be faced with a difficult decision, €1200 is a significant amount of money.

If I were not making the Nimes-London-Nimes round trip at least twice a month, then I would very possibly consider the more "expensive" alternatives, but doing it so regularly (and being self employed ;)), I have to factor in cost.

Off topic, but on point: I remember when I was conducting the Blood Brothers UK Tour in Dublin, and had a rehearsal for another show on one of my Sundays off in London. Due to copious amounts of post-rehearsal alcohol, I missed my Ryanair flight back to Dublin early on the Monday morning.

After several panic searches of websites, I found a flight back to Dublin from Heathrow with Aer Lingus. I was *amazed* at the increased level of service, but not the cost. It was £60 single - booked about 4 hours before I traveled :E

Aer Lingus was also the only website that allowed you to book for the *same day* - without having to call an extortionate phone line to book...

Good luck !

I draw comfort from the fact that after take off from Nimes, the scenery over the Gard and the Midi Pyranees is stunning! If not the approach at Luton... :rolleyes:

Martin

Avman

16th Jun 2007, 00:13

I reckon, to corrupt an old quotation, that rumours of the death of full service carriers are greatly exagerated
I agree. There will always be a market for the locos and they will be the survivors whenever the economy is poor and the travelling public want to save money. At the other end of the scale you will always have the well off to fill the Business Class sections of the Full Service carriers. But, where the market is beginning to make a turn is with the middle income types. Many changed to the locos and are now beginning to realise that saving the odd quid isn't worth the hassle. It seems that a growing percentage are again prepared to pay the extra for a better, more reliable service and peace of mind.

slim_slag

16th Jun 2007, 11:23

Heh heh SXB, I disagree, but isn't splitting hairs what it's all about :)

If you people don't want to fly Ryanair then that is fine by me. One has noticed that airlines charge more for seats when they have fewer of them available. This isn't new of course, was invented by the legacy lot. So you all run along and fly BA or EI or LH or whoever and leave lots of FR seats available for 1p.

Have you noticed the new headline fares now include extras? They are quoting fares 'from £10' which is the same as the government tax. So you can now get a seat which doesn't include PSC, wheelchair levy, or even the price of a ticket. Rather good value methinks, the only people making money are the government and they are the ones who deserve the money the least.

Union Jack

16th Jun 2007, 16:47

If you open up airline travel to 'the masses', then 'the masses' are going to fly

Curiously enough, that is more or less exactly what the Duke of Wellington said when the first passenger trains were introduced in the 19th century.

He was quoted as being against them on the grounds that the common people would want to travel, and that might lead to revolution. Substitute "pond scum" for "the common people" and it all begins to sound very familiar!

Allegedly, the Duke changed his mind completely when his financial adviser steered him into railway shares from which he subsequently made a lot of money ....

Jack

FHA

16th Jun 2007, 19:19

Quote from Final 3 Greens:

You're missing the point FHA, special needs pax are preloaded and looked after on other airlines.
And the woman may have paid for the privilege of selecting that seat - perhaps she is claustrophobic or has some other reason she needed to sit there.
Without knowing the facts, you are judging prematurely, for example I could conclude from your expressed view that you are an intellectual lightweight, incapable of expressing yourself with resort to bad language, who doesn't think things through and exhorts violence as a solution.
I doubt that that is fair comment and neither is your post.

Ooooh!! Handbags at 20 paces.
I'm just a passionate guy who wears his heart on his sleeve.
Firmament posted a heartfelt comment having been clearly disturbed at what he/she saw, or more to the point, heard. Even if she did book that seat for a reason, the bets are off when she passed comment on the child.
As for the guarded insult: well I could conclude that you are a pompous arse with an innate superiority complex.
I doubt that is fair comment either but thanks for letting let us know who the real 'lightweight' is.

If this gets me barred, it's been worth it!
Firmament, you are right: the Cabin Crew do have a thankless task.

SXB

16th Jun 2007, 19:52

FHA
Maybe you should read F3Gs comments again, he was simply illustrating how easy it can be to jump to, incorrect, assumptions. Which is exactly what you've just done, again.....

TightSlot

16th Jun 2007, 20:28

Please excuse the interruption, but... off the personal please FHA

FHA

16th Jun 2007, 20:36

OK boss: Forum rules now re-read. Suggest you read them too F3G.

onion

16th Jun 2007, 23:39

Just thought I'd add my experiences to this one.
I have flown Ryanair on several occassions now and never had a problem with them, you just have to obey their rules, its not hard. Also regarding boarding Ryan air have when I have flown with them always anounced boarding of priority boarders and people with young children first. So in Ryanairs defence the family with the child should of been ready for boarding at the gate near the front of the queue, I'm not suggesting the women who finally moved was in the right, just trying to defend Ryanair.

With regard to other pax being annoying on flights I encountered it myself on a recent longhaul trip returning to the UK. The first one was a pax who moved from his own seat, about 3 hours into a 10 hour flight, into a free seat in front of me. This wasn't a problem, he the preceded to recline his seat fully, this again wasn't a problem. The problem arose while and after having an inflight meal about 4 hours out. This bloke, and he wasn't British, didn't return his seat to the upright position while he ate although he sat upright the whole time, this meant for me to eat I either had to sit upright cramped up or reclined and uncomfortable to eat. After the meal he sat back but the proceded to figit the whole way while I was trying to watch the in flight entertainment in the back of his seat. Around this point he also for some reseaon tried to recline the empty seat next to him, in front of my girl friend, at which the two of use lent forward onto it to stop him.
On the same flight we had someone sat next to the window over the wing then 3 spare seats and then me and my girlfriend. This bloke had a fasination with opening the blinds (on the left hand side on a transatlantic flight) and looking out of the window. This caused us to be blinded by sunlight bouncing off the wing and entering the cabin. We asked cabin crew if they could ask him to stop which they did. This unfortunatley just turned this middle aged bloke into a naughty school kid. For the last hour or so he kept snatching cheeky looks out the window or partly opening the blind, thus blinding us every time.
To cap the trip off for our connecting flight I was assinged a window seat having put up with aisle seats on 5 previous sector on the trip I was looking forward to a bit of a change only to board the plane to find some bloke sat in it. I ended up sitting on the aisle again and my girlfriend sat in the middle next to this bloke. He was sat as wide legged as possible taking up room where my girlfriends legs were meant to be and proceded to fall asleep!
Being fairly reserved as we are the two of us complained only once about the whole episode and that only seemed to bring out the naughty boy in a middle aged man.
At the end of the day the nightmare pax are out there you just have to deal with them. We took 6 flights and only encountered problems on 2.
Anyway at the end of the day what point is there getting worked up about it these pains in the neck are only in our lives for a short space of time. Plus it gives me at least something to talk about on here;)

FirmamentFX

17th Jun 2007, 01:31

I have flown Ryanair on several occassions now and never had a problem with them, you just have to obey their rules, its not hard.

Agreed. However, my point is that there are so many people out there who feel that the rules don't - or shouldn't - apply to them. I am not even talking about "pond scum" here - there are plenty of intelligent, educated people with a superiority complex. These are the kind of arrogant sh*ts that visit places like Uzes and Nimes - people who honestly should know better.

I speak from experience with this one - my Stepdad - normally a lovely wonderful man - gets on an aircraft and becomes Mr. Hyde. He almost had an EZY flight to Nice turn back to Luton about 5 mins after takeoff over going to the toilet before the seatbelt signs were turned off... :ugh:

He is the kind of pax I despise :E

As an aside - I remember when I was in the "sky café" or whatever it is called at CDG, a prattish Brit businessman was in front of me. The poor girl behind the counter could not understand his *awful* attempt at ordering a croissant in French, and he eventually got so annoyed he resorted to calling her a "bloody frog".

And this was no doubt a pillar of our community in England...

Also regarding boarding Ryan air have when I have flown with them always anounced boarding of priority boarders and people with young children first. So in Ryanairs defence the family with the child should of been ready for boarding at the gate near the front of the queue, I'm not suggesting the women who finally moved was in the right, just trying to defend Ryanair.I was under that impression too. However the past 2 flights have not called that - instead it is "priority boarding and web check in" followed by "everyone else". I guess that they want you to pay if you need to get on first. A little sick perhaps...

Onion - I sympathise with you. I doubt I would have been able to hold my tongue ;)

Curiously enough, that is more or less exactly what the Duke of Wellington said when the first passenger trains were introduced in the 19th century.

He was quoted as being against them on the grounds that the common people would want to travel, and that might lead to revolution. Substitute "pond scum" for "the common people" and it all begins to sound very familiar!Union Jack - at the risk of sounding horribly pompous, I think you can widen the net to include all forms of public transport - humanity en masse is generally a horrible experience!

Cheers!

Martin

Avman

17th Jun 2007, 13:11

Aah Onion, the window blind thing! Don't take my comments as being aimed at you personally because I don't know if you were on an overnight flight or not. As for lowering the window blinds, personally I have a little problem with that depending on the time of day. If I'm travelling say AMS-JFK westbound during the middle of the day I don't particularly want to be in near total darkness. It's daytime and I'd like my daylight please. To save making a fuss I tend to abide however I get a bit grumpy about it. Eastbound is another matter. I recently flew overnight from Vancouver to Amsterdam. At this time of the year on such northerly tracks it's daylight all the way. Whether I wish to sleep or not, it's technically night time and I'll lower the window shade no problem. There are posters who would say that it is inconsiderate to others not wanting to lower the blind (on a daytime westbound flight). My contention is that it is just as inconsiderate wanting to force daylight away from those who may prefer to be in daylight during daytime. I'm not looking for confrontation but just pointing out that there are two sides to this problem.