Netjets and Family Life

[angelorange]

Would appreciate some feedback from pilots with family/kids working with netjets. Does the lifestyle work for you and yours? Are rosters pretty accurate/reliable in terms of set days off at home as opposed changes when working.

If you wanted to attend a friend's wedding in say barcelona in two months time could you get the time off?

thanks.

[redsnail]

You are on a 6 on 5 off roster. Only changes are your recurrent sim every 5-6 months or if you do extended days. That's your decision. Days off are days off. :)

You are allowed 6 special days off per year. So if you have something special to go to in X months time, then you book the SDOs off.

[bizantin]

And if you want vacations ...good luck! The new software is just there to say no! 25 pilots have left and probably twice this figure before December (deadline to sign the new "best deal in europe").
I will leave you my seat very soon with a great pleasure!!!

[Alphafloor75]

Bizantin, will you leave Netjets for another corporate airline, or will you join a regular airline to fly on bigger aircrafts? I am interested to know if the main reason for leaving is Netjets itself or if it is because flying for a typical airline, with the different lifestyle, seems more attractive to you.

[bizantin]

A lot of people are going to leave the company in the next few months because the new "best deal in europe" will become mandatory on the 1rst of December. Since many crew are not interested in that sh...deal, we are looking for some other opportunities.
I personally will continue in the business aviation but there are interesting airline jobs as well.
Nje used to be good but failed to attract and retain. With the forthcoming deliveries, the next 2years will be chaos.
Even people flying gulfstreams and falcons are leaving!
Net captain salary for a captain on a GV is 5700euros (without any pension!). It is the fare of 4days as a free lance!!!!
My advice: See NJE as a step if you are looking for a job, jet experience or want to wait for a better opportunity but do not consider as a long term perspective, you would be disappointed.

[Fly me to the moon]

5700€ / month for a Captain on a G V !!! That's so sad !
Third world pilot ?!
I'm a fourth world pilot, Captain, instructor and SFI on Airbus and I survive with less that 4000 €/month...income tax excluded on a 12 month base. No advantage, not even a free ticket. Never ! I also work on office duty and other stuff for free. I'm not a poor unlucky African...I'm European and I'm just a pilot in the Air Force ! Isn't it the salary for a 300 hours co pilot with NJE ?!
Seen from outside, I consider Netjets as a fantastic opportunity: Better roster, better salary, better life !
Everybody can spit on what he has, but there's always worse ! So even with my 4000€ after 20 years, I still feel quite lucky!
We can always improve the system and there's no perfect job, but I think that earning 5700€ is quite cool when so many live with 5 times less !
Don't let me be misunderstood : I would also prefer to earn 10000 to fly a G V !... But I guess that many young pilots would do it for free...
And finally, I'm still stupid enough to consider a sunrise at FL370 over the layer as a fantastic chance in my life, even with my "poor" salary...
Let's enjoy our lives as long as we have our Class 1 !!
:ok:

[CL300]

Positive!GearUp! i have the above mentioned salaray as a gross on an easy cockpit....

Germany has one of the worst salary. German people are happy at NJE.

Again, one cannot compare NTA with anything else, because noone tried this concept before in Europe, to that scale. Now , we are on track , needs adjustements to keep the boat afloat and sailing fast..

[flareflyer]

I work in the sandpit, and having the chance i would join NJE tomorrow.
5700 Euros a month plus allowance is not bad if you think that you work only 6 months a year.
About the pension i think tha NJE management will think about because it is very important.
Maybe i am wrong but who knows................. i left an airline to join ek.................and................. better not to say what i think..............

flare

[CL300]

Fly me to the moon 5700€ / month for a Captain on a G V !!! That's so sad !
Third world pilot ?!
I'm a fourth world pilot, Captain, instructor and SFI on Airbus and I survive with less that 4000 €/month...income tax excluded on a 12 month base. No advantage, not even a free ticket. Never ! I also work on office duty and other stuff for free. I'm not a poor unlucky African...I'm European and I'm just a pilot in the Air Force ! Isn't it the salary for a 300 hours co pilot with NJE ?!
Seen from outside, I consider Netjets as a fantastic opportunity: Better roster, better salary, better life !
Everybody can spit on what he has, but there's always worse ! So even with my 4000€ after 20 years, I still feel quite lucky!
We can always improve the system and there's no perfect job, but I think that earning 5700€ is quite cool when so many live with 5 times less !
Don't let me be misunderstood : I would also prefer to earn 10000 to fly a G V !... But I guess that many young pilots would do it for free...
And finally, I'm still stupid enough to consider a sunrise at FL370 over the layer as a fantastic chance in my life, even with my "poor" salary...
Let's enjoy our lives as long as we have our Class 1 !!

5700€ they have as well 20 years of experience et some a military background, however, none has pension/loss of licence insurance/unemployement insurance/ and so on..IF they are not UK or portugal based, they do not have as well a guarantee of employment. They are working in week-ends, they DO NOT have 5 weeks of vacations. Most of us would have to pay EXTRA income tax on this money... wait for december wake up call :\ So all being considered at the end of the day, being an SFI you will be making more money than a 50 millions Euro GV driver. For this amount of money you can get an A320, so if comparing apples and bananas yes it is a good deal, however we are trying to get ourselves benchmarked against EasyJet (forget BA, AF and LH..) we are still falling short (a little). BUT when you strive for excellence you have to be immaculate, why not starting with the crew T&C ?

I do just rebound on the 300 hours copilot, this one DOES NOT exist at NJE, 1500 hrs is the minimum, Staff ticket as well are not really an option.

Numbers are just numbers, life is short especially at FL 470, it is legitimate that people try to get most of it in the shortest period of time; this why when the roster is not balancing the essence of the contract and the "money in the pocket" figure anymore people are leaving.
NTA is the EASIEST GA outfit to work for, but for the time being, this is what it is...It is pilots and employees responsability to drive this outfit to be outstanding, does not need much, but numbers are numbers and numbers are tough...
I would love that our top management could just realize the wide view in supertechnicolor, and not only looking at the wonderful powerpoint presentation. But this is a wish, and in big corporations it is all the same.

Do not envy a difference of 1700 € because in truth , I think that you make more money with 4000 gross in france....

[Joe le Taxi]

I must admit, I get a bit frustrated when salaries are quoted net of tax, because tax is such a movable feast; (the Germans are happy in any company outside their own country as they seem to get away with paying very minimal tax).

So 5700 euro IS net of tax, isn't it?

Please someone tell me what a P1 salary per month is, before tax, and for the sake of comparison; including per diems and max extra days.

[CL300]

Year one captain is 95000€ gross, this year (2006) management agreed of a guarantee of 6 extra days of work paid 1000€ GROSS during busy season only.

THEN :

for non UK or Portugal based a deduction of around 31% to pay somes taxes around This is mandatory, cannot escape , cannot claim back.

Per diem of 70€ per FLYING day, being on stdby at home does not count the 70€, so at best 160 days at 70€ equal 11200 € ( 160 Flying duty day a year is an average, a realistic number), these per diems are of course taxable at your local country rate, ( france 52%)

So you net money is 5460€ +per diem.

The issue is that for most of the countries this deduction is not enough and they tax you to the local rate, let's take 40% to keep the figures not too dull, this is 3300€ net net tax paid. This is where our danish friends are now.
Per diems are not extra salaries since your burn some of it during tour ( food, car park, toll to gateway, train , taxi , and so on) if you can save half of it it's good, but you pay double tax anyway.

The best workable option is to live in UK, and have a UK contract.

For the december wake up call :

In december the portuguese authority will have to issue a certificate stating the amount of taxes we paid into portugal as an individual, this certificate will go into the IRS statement. How ? When? From who do we get this statement ? Then, you will be (in france) double taxed anyway, because you pay at year n+1 the taxes of year n, but on year n you are supposedly taxed at source, leading to a double taxed year. Wake up call ? who said that ?

For the people thinking we are working only half of the year, go back to your duty time books and read what kind of rest do you get after having flown 55 hours duty outside base, with no rest at base.

But again, in GA private BBJ or GLEX or CJ1, this concept of duty time does not even exist... This is why NTA is the EASIEST GA ops in Europe.....
Coming to Netjets gets you the most predictable roster of GA, but it has to be compensated somehow, numbers are numbers......:{

[Joe le Taxi]

Thx Cl300; Most informative.

A 30% tax is about the same as UK domestic tax so I don't think there would be anything more to pay. So it looks an OK deal for me. Maybe I'll get round to filling in the application form as I desperately need some variety in my flying.

Sur le continent, I kind of follow that there will soon be a bill for two years worth of tax; an unfortunate shock but then they have had it very good for very long. I worked in a company in the UK which could sustain very low pay because a large part of the workforce were from the continent, who were happy because they paid next to no tax, and would net far less if they worked in their home country; Very frustrating for the Brits trying to raise the bar.

Hence the pay rise at NJE now the guys are having to pay the taxman for the excellent public services they and their family enjoy at home (compared to the UK) - thus for Brits who have been paying a hefty tax all their careers, NJE starts to look OK.

[CL300]

Dear joe,

you have a misunderstanding here,

non UK based have UK social security...with all the goodies attached, for france, it does not change anything since EVERYONE has the same basic social security coverage, at NO cost, however we still have to pay UK around 5000€ a year for this free service.
"taxes", are taken at source at a rate of 25% (portuguese rate?) for non UK based ( which I believe are taxed around 40%), kick is where, how and when would one get out of a UK salary sheet (in pounds) , a tax credit form from portugal (euro country) being employed by a UK company with a contract in euros ?
For the french corner, we have no benefits with the new contract , just a loss of income..But other countries do benefit apparently from it so...

[Joe le Taxi]

I work and pay tax under a dual taxation agreement, and it is a headache converting various currencies to submit tax returns in two very different tax regimes.

But it does work and I end up evens. For those in France, it sure is a blow, and if I understand correctly, they will be 5000 euros out of pocket. Thats a shame as I would have loved to live in France and work for NetJets, but it looks like I must think again, at least on where to live.

[angelorange]

OK guys thanks for the info.

Just so this doesn't become the NJE tax and pay thread - that one is elsewhere, could we get back to topic?

ie: Those working with NJE and having young family how do you find the rostering? How does your spouse rate your job? etc

Cheers

[CL300]

you had your answer in the first reply...

Welcome to forums where discussion goes where peole want to drag it.

So you 6/5 IF you you do not have Vacation extra days or training, If so expect any combination that will suit rostering. Minimum of 3 days off just been implemented between tours.
Kids have a lot of resilience, therefore, no problems, your wife will have a part time lover, and you will not have any because you are not likely to fly a FA plane from start. So it is an aviation life as normal, not worse not better on this aspect of life..

cheers :cool:

[bizantin]

Leaving for 6days is more or less alright if you do not volunteer for the 6extra days that will just kill your roster (i had in June 6-3-5-2-6-4-6). I had to call to cancel those extra days for safety reason!!!.
otherwise, 6-5 is not too bad. A pain to get vacation and do not expect 2weeks in the summer (from may to October!!!).
the pb is they're desperate for pilots and less and less guys are attracted by this new foolish deal.
Even guys on large cabin are leaving...
airlining in and out 3times amonth is also becoming more and more complicate...but you can live wherever...

[Empty Cruise]

So to sum up - UK based NTA-pilots pay only NI + Portugese tax + any outstanding tax to take us up to Gordo's brand new 20%/40% brackets???

Ergo - you pay the same tax & NI that you would have working for a UK company???

Sorry to be a bit thick, but if someone could cut it out in cardboard... :\

Empty

[falconbis]

No....UK base pilots pay tax and NI in UK at the normal rate I guess 40% the non UK base pilots have same contract pay tax in Portugal 25% and NI in UK ... Portuguese base Pilots pay everything in Portugal :ugh:

[Empty Cruise]

Thnx, Falconbis - cardboard cutting complete

Now I just need to worm my way around the Bravo & the -400, but hopefully my size :O (1,86 m) will take care of that...

[berkut]

Hi there

I still have a question regarding tax in NJE. :ugh:
I'm from switzerland.

Does somebody know, what kind of tax (and the %) I'll have to pay?
I found some really confusing statements in here and the internet :*

Hope anybody could help me in that issue.

happy landings

[northernbloke]

No mate,

Me, 188cm and driving the 400 for them, and there are tall than me that do it!!

sorry.

[redsnail]

I think you need to be about 1.95cm and or a stoat chap to avoid the small fleets. However, I haven't met one 400 or BBJ pilot who really regrets taking a job on those fleets. They are often promoted onto the mid or large cabin fleets quicker (and fair enough indeed!) and the crews seem to really get on and enjoy their colleague's company.

They generally don't go near Moscow (although occassionally they do) and tend to avoid the more entertaining areas in the ME and North Africa. :ok:

[Joe le Taxi]

Re that positioning - Is that still done in business class - even for short haul? I heard that NJE are happy for the pilots to collect the miles and they dont attempt to book 'zero miles' tickets - That is quite important as there is no staff travel, so this is an adequate alternative in effect.

[redsnail]

Positioning? Short haul flights around Europe are done in economy unless it's cheaper to go business class or you can chat up the check in ladies like my FO did and blag an upgrade. :ok:

You keep the points. :D Business class is booked as a matter of course if the trip's over 6 hours and you haven't elected to take economy and cash.

[bizantin]

Expect business ticket on long haul only and no bonus for flying small cabin whatever people may say. Theoretically you gain 25% of seniority on non apu airplane, in theory!
The pb is they keep changing the rules and there is no seniority list. I know guys who stayed 5 years on small cabin (Yes, this is for sure, flew with 2 of them)

[mikecrocks]

some excellent info. I'm starting in April with NJE and would like to move to Spain. Any NJE pilots out there who live in Spain and could explain the tax issues I will face. I intend to be resident in Spain.
Thanks

[blablablafly]

Moving mid year generally works out nice. You stay in the lowest tax brackets in both countries :)

[mikecrocks]

Thanks alot.