Question for the wives

[Pilot pilot's wife]

We are not living in Hong Kong as of yet, but in the intrest of planning, I've started looking at having children. Everything I have found has been about fairly high risk hospital births with lots of intervention and red tape, which is not what I want at all. So...

Has anyone gone through the pregancy with a midwife?
Opted for a home birth?
I read of one person flying in a midwife from Australia, is that something you have considered/done?
I could only find one site on midwives there, is is hard to get hooked up with one?
The experiances I have read so far are making the thought of flying back to Canada to have a baby seem less and less crazy so any and all information of experiances would be really helpful.
Thanks!

[whodunnit2]

We had our first child in Hong Kong and had a very good experience using public hospitals for the entire process. Before you all start calling me cheap - The Wife (a doctor) of a colleague was pregnant at the same time and did extensive research regarding equipment, etc. She asked all the right questions and it turns out that if something goes wrong at the fancy hotel like hospitals, they transfer you to the public hospital anyway as that is where all the emergency equipment is.
That was enough for me. The staff were not only very good at what they did but very pleasant and helpful too.

Another friend had her first child in Canada and the next in Hong Kong and said that she preferred the HKG experience!

There are obviously other stories out there that are not so favourable but everyone we know has had a good run in the public system.

W2

[badairsucker]

WD

Same same. The wife wanted a hospital with all the correct facilities unlike most of the wives who think it's more important to have a dvd, menu and a private room.

Cut a long story short, we needed the facilities that the fancy hospitals don't have and things were great.

[Busbert]

The public hospital system is excellent.
My wife gave birth in the Queen Mary, and our second child due in a couple of months will be born there too.
The Queen Mary hospital has the best of facilities, including the neo-natal ICU, and it is where neo-nates are rushed when it goes wrong in the private hospitals.

I have a few colleagues that had experiences ranging from unfortunate to tragic in private hospitals in Hong Kong.

The only downsideof the public hospitals is that Hong kong hospital food is nasty. Not because it is chinese food, but because it is hospital food.

[Freehills]

Third that the public hospitals are excellent, and that the private ones are basically hotels that send you to a public one if anything goes wrong...
However, in HK childbirth isn't "new age" friendly, it is technical, gynaecologist (not midwive) driven, geared to getting babies born safely with minimum danger to mother or child, not the experience. If you want home birth, shamans, water births etc. you are out of luck. One person's intervention and red tape is another person's necessary and mandated pre-natal check ups!

[gtbilly]

If the baby is born in HK, and both of his parents are US citizens, what citizenship(s) will it hold?

[Freehills]

US - but with permanent right of abode in HK

[christep]

US - but with permanent right of abode in HKI don't think that's right unless or until one or both of the parents are permanent residents of HK (or Chinese nationals). See the Immigration website here: http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/topical_3_4.htm
Otherwise the child would simply be a US citizen (with all the tax pain that entails).

[Busbert]

Wrong...

The child will take on the citizenship of the parents, depending on the citizenship rules of the parents country (or countries) of citizenship.

In practice, the child will need to get a passport (of their parents country of citizenship) straight away, and then apply to Hong Kong Immigration Dept for a Visa. This visa will reflect the conditions of stay of the parent(s). When a child is born to foreign parents (non-Chinese citizens) they are given a temporary visa for 14 days with reference to the Hong Kong birth certificate number. This is not enforced, i.e. they won't come to your home and deport the 2 week old baby, however, you are expected to get the passport and visa without delay.

The child will not get right of abode unless the parent has permanent right of abode or is a Hong Kong Citizen.

If a parent holds a permanent ID card, this will be reflected in the child passport so the child will have the right to live in Hong Kong until he/she gets their own permanent ID card or until they reach the age of 18.

Foreigners can never gain Hong Kong Citizenship unless they meet the requirements for Chinese Citizenship - in essence if you are not ethnically Chinese, you will not get Hong Kong Citizenship even if you are born and grow up in Hong Kong.

Depending on the status of citizenship of the parents, it is wise to check out the right of abode of the child born in Hong Kong, because in some cases, the child may not be entitled to right of abode in the country of citizenship of the parents (for example if both parents themselves were not born in their country of citizenship). In Hong Kong this can result in the case that the child does not have right of abode anywhere!

[WaldoPepper]

In regard to your original question, home birthing in HKG is still illegal. You can have your own midwife (private midwife) but they cannot deliver the baby, it will be delivered by the hospitals widwife.

You can have a "doula" present at the birth as well as a birthing partner or support partner but they can't actually deliver the baby.

In agreement with everyone above, the public hospital system is very good. I've heard of people with premature babies, and babies with problems after birth which are very well cared for, and as someone said above, if you're in a private hospital and there are complications, they rush you to the public one.

If you're considering other methods of birthing such as "hypnobirthing" then the public hospital (Queen Mary that I know of) are starting to come to terms with the fact that giving birth does not mean it's an emergency and they stare in wonderment that a woman can give birth with no screaming and very little (if any at all) pain.

Water births are still way too much to deal with at the moment in HKG.

When you consider that dad's have only been able to be in the delivery room for a few years, HKG still has a way to go with "modern" birthing practices.

[christep]

if you are not ethnically Chinese, you will not get Hong Kong Citizenship even if you are born and grow up in Hong Kong.This is simply not true - there are many HK Citizens of South Asian descent and at least one or two of European descent (Mike Rowse, Head of InvestHK is the one most quoted).

[Left Hand Drive]

(1) Public hospitals in HKG are very good. My eldest daughter was born at the Prince of Wales in Sha tin. We went privately however, for reasons that I will not delve into here,. The only difference between public and private, apart from a large bill is (or was) that the father is not allowed to be present at the birth if you go public. In our case my wife had a caeserean and I didn't fancy being there anyway.

regarding the food, if you are not keen on the local hospital food you can always get the family and friends to bring you in a subway and starbucks!

(2) Citizenship, at least one or the parents has to be a 'permanent' ID card holder and then the words 'established' are entered into the birth certificate, in which case the child will also get the 'permanent' ID card, however they will need to visit HKG at least once every 3 years to keep it.

(3) Since the handover in 1997, I don't believe any 'right of abode' to non-ethnic chinese is given anymore. i.e. the 3 stars on the back of the HK ID card. However, with a permanent ID card you have the 'right to land', unless it has all changed !:)

[WaldoPepper]

LHD,

These rules have obviously changed lately as one of my friends was able to be present for the birth of his baby at the Queen Mary just a couple of months ago.

It's not easy though, the father has to go through a "course" of some sort of which the hospital dictates the days to attend. If you "CANNOT" attend, you "CANNOT" be in the delivery room. No exceptions.

WP

[christep]

(3) Since the handover in 1997, I don't believe any 'right of abode' to non-ethnic chinese is given anymore. i.e. the 3 stars on the back of the HK ID card. However, with a permanent ID card you have the 'right to land', unless it has all changed !:)Not true. A Permanent ID Card with Right of Abode is given to foreigners after 7 years residence (see the link I gave above). The *** is nothing to do with Right of Abode (it signifies eligibility for a Hong Kong Re-entry permit, which, to a first approximation, means you are Chinese). Right to Land is what you revert to if having been given Right of Abode after 7 years you subsequently don't visit HK in any 36 month period; the only significant difference is that RTL holders can be deported and cannot vote.

[Humber10]

Well a little off subject. I'm getting married soon. Question is: is an English marriage certificate recognised in HK or is there some process to go through for it to be legally recognised here? I'm guess not, but I'm just getting prepared for the paper work required before she moves out here.
cheers
Humber

[Freehills]

It is recognised. However, HK Immigration can ask questions, so be prepared to be asked for proof that it is not a wedding of convenience - e.g. wedding invites, wedding photos, you may be asked how long you dated etc.

[Freehills]

PS, congratulations or commiserations, whatever is applicable :)

[Humber10]

Well Im sure I'll have plenty of pics of the main event, cheers

[HeloMonster]

Waldo


In regard to your original question, home birthing in HKG is still illegal. You can have your own midwife (private midwife) but they cannot deliver the baby, it will be delivered by the hospitals widwife.



Not illegal, just very difficult. I asked Doc Cocks at Cathay the same question when I first came to HKG and he told me one of his kids was born at home here. I forget the details but remember he said the paperwork afterwards was a bit of a 'mare...

[HotDog]

Our two children were born in Hong Kong. The first one at Matilda Private Hospital, the second one at Canossa Private Hospital. Excellent care and comfort at both hospitals.

[Dan Winterland]

Originally Posted by Busbert
if you are not ethnically Chinese, you will not get Hong Kong Citizenship even if you are born and grow up in Hong Kong.

It's not possible under HK or Chinese regulations to hold more than one passport at once. It is possible to get HK citizenship once you have pernament residency if you renounce your previous nationality. Not easy, but possible. I know of an American who has done this - not paying US tax being his main motivation!

[FairlieFlyer]

I note youre thinking of having children. I'd recommend the Allianz Healthcare plan which has full maternity benefits. Theres a 10 month lead in but if you plan ahead you can get full private care at the hospital of your choice, and there are a few to choose from

Our experience was full specialist care throughout the entire pregnancy including multiple 3D scans and weekly checkups in the last 5 weeks. The Maltilda hospital was nothing short of brilliant with full maternity delivery care provate rooms including beds in the same room for the father to stay in. The specialist was on hand throughout the last 3-4 hours

Midwifes also were extremely good, with our one staying with us through the entire process

For the cost of insurance vs actual billed was a huge difference and we felt worth the money - Less than GBP1000/year for everything. PM me if you want the Insurance agent we used

Re Citizenship As above, we both have british citizenship with Work sponsorship in HK. So baby also has no right for permanent ID card etc. As such she has a HK birth cert with no further residency rights As such I need to apply for HK dependants visa on my passport & then a non-permanant HK ID card for her.

[gtbilly]

How much would it cost to have a baby under the company provided health care plan in HK?

[badairsucker]

100-140k Hkd.

[willnotcomply]

A friends' wife had a miscarriage a while back. She went to the QMary. After a long wait and very brief examination she was told to go home. When she questioned the bleeding, she was told that it would eventually stop! A week later whilst in the UK, she was admitted to hospital immediately for an emergency D & C, after experiencing severe stomach cramps. Needless to say, the UK Docs were astounded to hear a recount of events in HK.Surprised? Probably not.
My advice. Go somewhere civilized.

[FairlieFlyer]

great - a story recounting someone elses story then ending up with a big hooray for the thoroughly antiquated UK medical system.... :D Sounds like you have experience of neither

[Freehills]

Yeah, and don't take your dog to a restaurant in HK either. Cos a friend of a friend did that, and pointed at the dog because they wanted some scraps from the kitchen for it. And the waiters took the dog away, and then brought it back sauteed with ginger and spring onion! As Lily von Stupp said in "Blazing Saddles"

"It's twue! Oh It's Twue! OH, IT'S TWUE!"

[willnotcomply]

FF,
You are a fan of China airlines and choose to get your dental work done in BKK. Let me guess, you probably also think COS 08 is a great deal as well.
The company need more dic...heads like you!

[beerboy]

I think fairlyflyer was trying to point out that every country will have there good and bad points. To label the whole medical system of any country down to one bad experience is probably a bit harsh.

I've been to the UK and when the wife came across problems with the pregnancy, the NHS was very professional. In saying that, the baby was delivered in HK which was equally professional.

Unfortunately a previous post sounded more like a gripe than anything else, and i'm sure that person will have a negative thing to say about the whole moving to HK experience and it would be rather wise to listen to his/her words with a pinch of salt.

[Apple Tree Yard]

The best advice for a wife.....if you want to be an ex-wife, have your husband join CX. The divorce rate for people that have been in CX for 15yrs+ is incredible (nearer 90% than 50%....). Good luck...:eek:

[Bwatchful]

Apple Tree Yard
Where do you get that information from? Statistically, this is a very serious situation.

[Cpt. Underpants]

Over 90% of statistics are made up on the spot.

[Numero Crunchero]

I 80% agree with you!

[Apple Tree Yard]

...why don't you both go back to my post and CAREFULLY read what i ACTUALLY wrote...? Regardless of your 'opinions' of statistics,.....a survey of pilots who are in the last few years of their careers, who are divorced from the wife they originally arrived in CX with will reveal a number that is quite stunning. Do your own research....

[canuck revenger]

a friend of mine just resigned....going back to OZ. Told me that the wife was threatening to leave.....50% wealth cut right there...not worth it. Good luck to you OZMATE