As accurate as i could get it - is it realistic in anyway?

[Felix Saddler]

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First things first

• Class I Medical - £500
(incl. travel)-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Module 1
Orlando flight training (http://www.flyoft.com/pilot_course.php)


PPL & NR


• JAA Pa28 45 hour PPL course - £4194
• Flights to USA - £350 + Air miles
• PPL issue - £170
• NR Issue - £80
• Study pack - £199

Total for PPL & NR & Medical - £5500

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Module 2

Bristol Ground School (http://www.bristol.gs/prices.php)

• ATPL Theory module 1 & 2 - £2100
• Exam fees - £900
(Probably do some hour building between modules)
(Also prices are Dependant on 1st time passes, £62 per exam)

Hour Building

• Block rates Pa28 $99hr with OFT.
• 100hours Pa28 - £5015
• 2 months Accommodation with OFT - £1000
• 2 x Return Flights to USA - £800
• 7 hours UK flying - £735 (£105hr wet)

Total for Ground school & Hour Building - £10000


(I would do 1 months hour building then go back later in the year, hence the 2 x flights)

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Module 3

Bournemouth Commercial Flight Training (http://www.bcft.org.uk/pdf/BCFTBrochure.pdf)

• MEPL/CPL (incl. all course material & test fees) - £7300
• CPL Issue - £220
• Instrument Rating (incl. all course material & test fees) - £11000
• IR Issue - £110
• MCC at OAT - £2900

(excl. living costs as i have no idea!)

Total for Commercial Training - £22000

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•Total hours flown - 250 hours

•Total cost of training - £43000
(Plus 10%)






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Kind Regards,

Felix Saddler.

[Whirlygig]

Save yourself £150 and go straight for Class 1 medical!

Cheers

Whirls

[Gazeem]

Second that, first port of call Gatwick for a class one medical, if you can't get one best be off to uni!

[Felix Saddler]

I have edited that in. Aside from that does it look like an accurate representation of what i can be expecting to pay? The total cost without rounding was a lot cheaper, however i figured its the hidden costs which get us more than anything else! So i have rounded considerably to compensate effectively.

Thanks,

Felix.

[BigGrecian]

Add a minimum 15% overspend.
Most schools charge a higher rate for overages than the package rate so be aware for a real sting here.


All the courses listed are minimum licensing requirements.
In reality the majority of students do not complete in minimum hours.
Also you forgot Visa and TSA fees.
Visa is around £66
TSA is around $130
Fingerprints around $5 a hand in the US.


Have you considered studying for the ATPLs in the US - the living expenses are substantially cheaper.

[Frank Furillo]

A few questions.
How are you at 18 or 19 years of age going to raise upwards of £40K?
Banks just don't throw £40K around to anyone.
Parents normally have to Re-mortgage their homes to help finance their children, it can be a large burden.
How are you going to pay back the £40K once your training has finished?
Can you afford to pay £500 or so, per month for 10 years to pay off a loan for £40K?
How long will it take you to get a job?
How much are you going to earn in the first few years? If you go to a Loco who makes you pay for everything you will be in even more debt.
I do not want to rain on your parade, just have your eyes open to the cold harsh reality of truth.
best of luck
FF.
PS. BG is right about the 15% minimum to add to costs, aviation is a dammed expensive move.Also you will need some equipment, Headset, Pens, Charts, Etc and if you do go to the states you will want to have some fun as well.

[camel toe]

The raising of the £40 (+) thousand quid could be from working. Let's find out first before we assume it will be a loan from the parents/bank.

[potkettleblack]

I would add another £10k easily for living costs, accommodation and beer money. You will be surprised just how expensive it can all be. Remember also that even best laid plans can change. You could for example head out to the US and find that what was meant to take x weeks takes y weeks through no fault of your own.

ATPL theory - you will need to go to Bristol for I think 2 weeks twice for the brush ups. A B&B is probably around £50 a night plus your dinner and lunch money. Will you drive there or fly down and taxi? For the exams at Gatwick will you be in a hotel or B&B? Then ditto. This really adds up. Also sign up for the Bristol database and its another £50 for 3 months access so maybe another £150 or so there.

Factor in for resits as well, particularly on the CPL and IR front. That is where the costs can really escalate. More so when you start getting into twin engine stuff and it is probably costing you the thick end of £300/hr to rent for a test. Then add on retest fees and it can soon add up to a very bad day.

Books and stuff - what is in the study pack you quote? Does it have the CRP5 that you will need for the ATPL exams? Does it have the Trevor Thom manuals to get you through the PPL exams? You might find that you need to buy extra books for topics like engines or MET. Most guys buy their own headsets as well. In the US expect to pay in US dollars what the price is in the UK. Probably another £150 or so for a decent set of David Clarkes unless you are feeling particularly wealthy and go for Sennheiser or something like that.

[Frank Furillo]

Camel toe,
If you are going to raise £40K from working it would take a long time,
Lets see....
Well if you get a Job earning £20K Pa on passing your A Levels then that would be:
£20000.00 Gross
£ 3034.30 Tax Paid
£ 1645.16 NI Paid
£15320.54 Net Salary.
Per month you would get £1276.71
Living expenses, lets be nice and say £800 PCM for food, board, car, going out.
You are left with £476.71
That would give you £5720.52 Pa saved.
Figure 5 years or so to save the money to enable you to start training, bear in mind you will have to eat etc during all training.
I don't know many A Level students who can get £20000.00 Straight after college but who knows?
I don't believe that I made any assumptions, just asked some questions and gave some facts, this is often missing on here when everyone is looking through rose tinted glasses. It cost me a lot more to get through than I was quoted, I am only trying to give some simple advice and help to someone who is starting out.

[boogie-nicey]

What you have above is a business plan which is subject to adjustment throughout as you progress. If anything it should act as an intial guide but it would also be wise to factor in a percentage overspend which in aviation is almost unavoidable. Nevertheless it's good to see a gameplan in place, best of luck :ok:

[potkettleblack]

Thinking more about this I have a better idea for you....why not spend a bit of money and sit the GAPAN tests. Also go to WH Smith and get an interview book. I am guessing here that you will probably struggle to come across with the sort of maturity that an airline will be looking for. That isn't me being critical of you it is just symptomatic of someone who has left school and not pursued a career before embarking on an airline career. When you get asked questions like give an example of conflict, how have you managed people and how you would deal with a captain that breaches SOP's it will be hard to come across with a half decent sounding reply without a bit of the rich tapestry of life. Also most of your contemporaries go on to University and it could be seen as a negative that you haven't. Your CV could be binned without you ever knowing just because 10 other guys/gals went to University and applied themselves and proved to the recruiters that they can stick to a course of study.

Very few airlines take on people who are so young with no formal education. Those that still do put them through intensive psychometric and verbal reasoning testing plus a whole battery of other things to determine that the candidate has the right attributes for the airline concerned.

Better still if you hit a downturn and get knocked out of your job then you will have more to your CV than just being a pilot.

Finally, few people I have come across ever research the job hunting aspect of flying which to me was always my number 1 priority. I didn't get into flying training to be some know it all swot that was intimately involved with every aircraft type I flew. In fact near the end of my training I actually found some of it quite boring and irrelevant as it seemed so far removed from what commercial airline flying involved which I knew a fair amount about from friends that were pilots. I wanted a job that gave me a return on my investment.

[bri1980]

Have you considered instructing?

This has some advantages. At such a young age without another career/university degree you might not get the attention you may deserve from airlines.

However, you could possibly get an instructors job and this will increase your flying hours whilst paying you a modest salary to get paying your loan off, or just earning some spending money.

Once you have instructed for a few years you will have the skills and flying hours needed to join the airlines, and a much greater approeciation for the industry.

Just an idea that might be worth considering.

Bri

PS. Plan looks good on the face of it.

pps. What about other ab-initio schemes? Multiflight ab-initio scheme for a shade over 29k (see adverts on pprune), or CTC? Highland airways sponsorship? Air Atlantique sponsorship?

[Felix Saddler]

Ok to sum things up.

Also you forgot Visa and TSA fees.
Visa is around £66
TSA is around $130
Fingerprints around $5 a hand in the US.

I rounded up considerably to compensate for these as already stated!


The raising of the £40 (+) thousand quid could be from working. Let's find out first before we assume it will be a loan from the parents/bank.

Thankyou!

Books and stuff - what is in the study pack you quote? Does it have the CRP5 that you will need for the ATPL exams? Does it have the Trevor Thom manuals to get you through the PPL exams?

Yes.

Most guys buy their own headsets as well. In the US expect to pay in US dollars what the price is in the UK. Probably another £150 or so for a decent set of David Clarkes unless you are feeling particularly wealthy and go for Sennheiser or something like that.

Got a good headset and i feel its ridiculous to spend that much on sun glasses!!

Basically i plan to work and save for my training, my parents have offered to lend me half of it if i can find the other half.

I don't intend to become a commercial pilot in the next year, it will take several and i will gain life experience through these years!

Thanks,

Felix.

[hobbit1983]

Felix - to reiterate what has already been said by others, I think you will most likely need to add 15% to all the minimum times etc. I speak from experience as I too went to OFT, and instead of passing dead on 45hrs, I ended up taking 55hrs to get my PPL.

[camel toe]

Felix

I suggest a dynamic approach to your game plan. On paper it looks like a very reasonable, progressive route and writing it out like you have is a useful tool. I am not as far into the training as others here, however I think it very good advice to allow the sort of margins suggested.

Be prepared to adjust your game plan, you have a goal and its a good start to pencil out a route, just don't be too tunnel visioned at any stage.

I also think its a good idea once you have got your "rough route" to focus on the present time hurdle, and drill down even further within that. Eg have a goal in mind (if its big metal thats your motivation then by all means have pictures of the stuff around you), but for example, when doing the PPL exams just concentrate on one at a time rather than thinking how the ATPL's will compare.

On the money front with regard to the offer from your parents, and this is just my opinon, but use it for the latter stages ie Multi/IR, MCC. I think it prudent to use your own wages/savings to pay for your Medical, then PPL, then ground school, then hour building and only after all those bits are under the belt would I use any loan from either family or banks. You will have proved to yourself and your folks that you can manage your money, you will have already realised your own potential and have a more realistic idea of costs as you will have encountered the "extras" that everyone is talking about.

All the best

Camel Toe
"Over Macho Grande?"

[Felix Saddler]

Thanks very much! I intent to save up for ground school and hour building through work, and already have the money for the PPL saved. I will most probably use the 20-25k off my parents to pay for, as you suggested, the CPL/IR/MCC. Hopefully this way i will have considerably less debt and will not be taking too much of a gamble! However saving this much especially the hour building will be a challenge. The factor im most concerned about is the job opportunities afterwards!!

FS.

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Have you applied to one of the mentored schemes such as CTC?

[wbryce]

Don't forget that you need to buy equipment too...so far ive spent roughly £1500 on equipment! mainly since I bought a boseX headset! you only get one set of ears!

[fc101]

Well at least it seems you've thought about the costs...more than some ever do so that's a very good start.

Add 15% to everything and then probably 10% to the final total to be sure. Add15-20% to any times just in case and divide your expected salary on starting by 2.

Strongly, no, STRONGLY, recommend preparing to do to university - a university degree is VERY different from school.

If all fails, take a year out travelling; broaden the mind and come back to all this with a fresh perspective.

Good luck in whatever you do

fc101
E145 driver

[BHenderson]

Seems like a good basic plan. My advice would be to start documenting the costs down to the individual item. You'll soon find the extra '15%' is eaten up by other costs.

[SD.]

Just a couple of tips you may wish to consider.

a) There's no need to get a JAA PPL if you are going over to the states to study. Find yourself a reputable FAA only school and save a few quid. Any ICAO PPL is required prior to starting the ATPL ground school, why spend the extra if it's not needed? Plus, the FAA PPL includes night flying and the FAA won't charge you 170 quid for a bit of paper. It's FREE!

b) Research OFT. Don't get sucked in by the ads in the UK mags regarding Florida flight schools. The US has a lot to offer, not just FL.

c) Budget an extra £6k for an instructors rating or £25k for a type rating scheme. Chances are, you'll need one or if not both to compete.

d) If you do go to a JAA school in Florida, you might aswell stay and do the JAA CPL. Much cheaper and you'll be used to the local area.

Good luck :ok: