proffesional training

[speakers]

I am soon to complete my ATPL writtens and am looking at the modular way forward with my training. Money is as always an issue, but am looking for the best training in the UK for M.E. /I.R. CPL.

Could anyone recommend schools out there in the UK that are cost effective, and with a "personal" eliment to the training?

[weis]

I'm just about to start my ATPL's but a friend of mine who's just finished went off to stapleford, can't praise it enough. Some sim time involved too, but a brand new diamond fleet and excellent staff. The CPL/ME/IR apparently costs £20000 including accomodation.

[Jaguar Pilot]

speakers and weis;

How would you like to spell English correctly innit?

"eliment" - do you mean element?

"accomodation" - do you mean accommodation

Place names are started with capitals (upper case) Stapleford

Howcum noboddy speeks inglish in vis cuntry anymor?

I expect a professional pilot to be educated....

AND I SUSPECT THAT MOST OF THE TRAVELLING PUBLIC WOULD AGREE.

JP

[biaeghh]

hey 2jags

totally agree with your sentiments edukation ain't wot it use 2 be,
maybe ideal kab-ayr fodder.

;)

[Whirlygig]

Jeez Jags,

Those two posts are nowhere near the worst that have appeared on these pages with respect to spelling and grammar. Is that all the input you have to offer?

I expect a professional pilot to be more courteous and constructive.

Cheers

Whirls

[Rosie Jane]

Hey Come on Guys, some good english is required here, after all we are supposed to be professional, te he!.
Anyway for Speakers answer, moudular vs the other one, well it all comes down to money, which none of us have, but we all want. SFC and BCFT are both rocking places, offer good courses and best of all keep some fun on the way. Like many I need to keep working, if only on the street corner for now!!! (pays better than working at Mackydees and the old guys from the bingo hall tip better), so finding the best course for the cheapest cost is Numero Uno ( thats mny Italian Degress coming into play). You can go to the US and fly for a few dollars less, or you can fly here in the Uk with all the crappy weather and windshear and CB's .....fab aint it
If you can spare the time take an in-house course, I cant, but the atmosphere in the school does appear better. Good luck

Roise

One life...live it

[conferenceroom]

ok ok....enough of the spelling and grammer...the person wants help!!!

Speakers...you could try stapleford, or coventry but I found Bonus Aviation in Cranfield most helpful. The training was structured but not "sausage mill" like some other schools and all the staff were very helpfull....give them a try! (I understand they have a promotion on with hugely reduced costs at certain times of the year)

[Deano777]

Aeros Flight Training at Staverton is the place to go, if you want more info PM me

Dean

[porridge]

Speakers – the thrust of your query was a school which provides “cost effective training with a personal element”?
I take it that you are trying to avoid the marketing over-hyped sausage factories where you will get precious little of the personal touch to your training needs?
Choosing a school is a bit like choosing a restaurant - you obviously want to avoid the fast food establishment and also the “celebrity chef” type. It is a bit like finding a charming family run business that prides itself on personal attention, good wholesome meals with middle of the road prices! Most of these are hard to find are usually they are hard to find and you will only hear about them through friends – i.e. word of mouth.
Here are some good hints on selecting a good one.
1. You’ve already asked the question on PPRuNe – good start. Here are a few that I have heard good reports about that fit your requirements: Aeros @ Staverton; Bonus Aviation @ Cranfield; PAT @ Bournemouth. There was Wycombe Air Centre at Booker, but as they have gone over to the dark side it may not be as it was before. However, I stress there may be more.
2. Never go to a school who wants you part with large sums of money up front. A modest deposit and then a pay as you fly arrangement speaks volumes about the integrity of the school.
3. Speak to the students at the school – avoid the “company front man” type of students; they often are on to some false promise to nowhere having been conned by the FTO into believing their BS anyway!
4. Look at their aircraft maintenance and availability – many schools struggle with keeping there fleet in the air and you will be pushed back and back in the queue. Aircraft downtime is a fact of life, but there has to be an acceptable limit.
5. Always budget on at least 25% more than the quoted course price – this covers things like extra accommodation costs, re-test fees and training costs (we would all like to pass 1st time, but when money is tight it adds too much stress to the equation).
6. Visit a number of schools – you will much better at getting used to the BS most put about and when you find the better ones they will be more frank with you what to expect in your training. The biggest marketing & sales ploy is to tell the customer what they want to hear. Once you’ve paid loads of money to them they can play you at the end of a string and you will find it hard to cut it loose. Keep your options open, if they don’t have your money it keeps the school sharp and on their toes! Avoid the TESCO discount schemes buy more pay less. It means that they put the price up to reflect the real price in the form of the discount.
7. It is better to pick a school based at one of the CAA testing centres – eg Bournemouth, Bristol, Cranfield, Oxford (only OATS based there) & Leeds to avoid extra transitioning costs and landing fees.
8. See what is included. Most schools will leave out such niceties such as VAT, landing fees, 170a fees and many more. Make absolutely sure you know what you are letting yourself in for.
9. Finally once you have selected a couple of options ask if you can hang around the school and get a back seat on a couple of flights before you sign up. If they tell you this is not possible it is a good reason to quit!
Good luck in your hunt, choose carefully and wisely, remember that the majority of schools will sell you the dream not the reality.

[neilia]

Ditto Deano777's recommendation for Aeros, simply superb. Feel free to PM me.

[speakers]

Thanks all for the replies...and many apologies for the spelling!

I have trawled through the adverts and prospectuses for the many schools and have narrowed down to a few. Although Aero's and Stapleford look very good options I think I shall be heading to Cranfield as it is nearer to home and will allow me to save on accommodation costs.

I have looked at the various schools there, CFS, CATS, Cabair, Bonus, Billings, and have had good responses from all staff that I have spoken to.

Cabair tell me they are now moving all of the modular training to Wycombe, so it looks as though this option is out, CFS, CATS and Billings seem a little light on instructors and aircraft, so maybe Bonus Aviation is the option to take.

I have looked at the website and have spoken to them and they tell me the pass rate is excellent, instructor and aircraft availability is very good, and the discount package available for ME/IR CPL is realistic. They also claim that many students go straight into an airline career once finished!!!!

Could anyone confirm the claims, and are my thoughts on the other schools correct before my pockets are emptied at what seems to be an alarming rate?????

[Dr Eckener]

They also claim that many students go straight into an airline career once finished!!!!
Of course they do. But then again, they do from all schools don't they :E
Why not ask them for the contact details of these students, so you can ask them how they got their jobs, and how much they paid for their type ratings.

It is very rare for someone to go from training to airline, unless they have an 'in' through a contact, or previous employment with an airline in a non flying role, or buy a TR.

Get yourself a real plan for what to do when you don't get a job straight away, and you will have a greater chance of success in the long run.

Best of luck.

[iceman737]

One of my friends went to Bonus to see them last week. He's just finished his ATPL's at London Met recently and now looking to do IR, CPL training. He met all the staff and instructors and had a chat with their students too. All of the students seemed extremely happy with their training (all first series passes). Don't know about the airlines they've joined but if you look at their website it says were the students have joined.

[Mercenary Pilot]

I'd do yourself a favour and steer clear. :=

[Dr Eckener]

Don't know about the airlines they've joined but if you look at their website it says were the students have joined.
A quick trawl through the lists shows that of 50 completed IR's over the last 3 years, 9 have airline jobs. Of this 9, 2 are obviously through contacts, looking at the airlines they have joined, and 3 have obviously paid for TR's (Ryan). This leaves a possible 4 out of 50 who have secured a job in the last 3 years without forking out for a TR.

I'm not Bonus bashing, as they are probably no worse/better than any other place. Just pointing out the facts that CPL/IR + low hours does not have good prospects for airline job immediately out of training.