European B737-200

[Mr A Tis]

I booked 7 months ago to fly with Thomsonfly from Manchester to Lisbon.
I now find this flight will be operated by the elderly 32 year old G-CEAH ( ex Sabena).
Has anybody flown with European or on this aircraft recently? Would be interesting to know what to expect?:eek:

[DONTTELLTHEPAX]

If it was me, I would ask to change flights, Airports or even canx the flt,
I got a transfer onto MYT, ex LGW 2 years ago when our a/c was sick,
we were advised that our flight would be operated by European, I use to
see European stand in for Ryanair years ago at STN with 737-200 and 1-11's they looked old way back then, being Ex sabena wouldnt give me
any confidence as one holiday about 5 yrs ago was extended by 3 full days after the first a/c scraped it tail, we had to rtn to PMI and wait for
another a/c, 20hrs later it arrived but just before take off but after taxi it went tech, the full flight of pax was then put on anything available to get us home, we went to BFS then LGW.

Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear but I would not travel on that a/c :eek::{:ouch:.

[spanishflea]

You'll probably leave late, the aircraft will probably be in a right state inside, but take pride in the fact you'll be flying in a Classic :ok:

Some people would give their back teeth to get on a -200 these days. You can count the number still operating in Europe on one hand I think now.

[jet2impress]

Get a grip please people. :ugh:

[Mr A Tis]

So, no real information here then? No European crews about?
People seem to comment alot on the age of the Jet2 fleet, which I have no problems with,but I think EAF fleet age is in a different league !

[RichT]

I worked for EAC about 6 years ago. The aircraft were well maintained. The crews are all good. The 200 may be old now but it's a well built ship. You may find the cabin a bit noisy but as far as safety is concerned I don't think there is anything to worry about.

[Ex Captain Jones]

In May, on a booked Thomson holiday to Sardinia,I looked in disbelief as I was bussed from Birmingham Terminal to a far away stand and greeted by the site of white painted B737-200. G-CEAH. I was met on entry by an Olive (from on the buses) lookalike and directed to seat 3C. In brief, the inside was shabby, the bulky seats pitched at 28" and the air recirc noisy.
What happened to the great days when Britannia flew for Thomson?
Not a good advert to use a 30+ year old heap.

[Mr A Tis]

Indeed, what has happened to Britannia / Thomsonfly? They couldn't even be bothered to tell the passengers at Manchester that they have changed Terminals to fly in this geriatric jet, and what's more couldn't care less either.
Given the chaos that ensues Manchester every morning, changing Terminals is no mean feat.
Like many others, I will be giving TOM a wide berth in future after this European fiasco.

[perkin]

Went past G-CEAH at MAN this morning, it was parked on the stand next to my Jet2 733 back to AMS. The old -200 looked in very tidy condition, certainly externally, which would suggest its been looked after over the years. FWIW I've been on a couple of BA & KLM 737's that have been in considerably worse cosmetic shape than any of Jet2's fleet, so I don't think its necessarily got much to do with the logo on the tail...

[perkin]

People seem to comment alot on the age of the Jet2 fleet, which I have no problems with,but I think EAF fleet age is in a different league !

If I remember correctly, some of the younger -200's are in fact younger than the earliest of the -300's. Can anyone confirm this?

[Mr A Tis]

As far as I know, the B732 production went on until around mid 1988, whilst the first B733 was delivered late 1984.
The European B732 G-CEAH was built in 1975, so is not even a late version.
European average age B732 is over 30 years
Jet 2.com average age B733 is 20 years.

[perkin]

Plus, I dont think anyone in this discussion actually knows how many cycles this aircraft has done, and thats what counts at the end of the day, in addition to how well maintained it has been with previous owners. Having seen its fine external condition quite close-up (was considerably better than the Jet2 737QC which I boarded, complete with a number of repair patches) I wouldn't have any problems boarding G-CEAH for a short flight. If you want luxury, buy yourself a business class ticket on a scheduled carrier or charter your own bizjet. You get what you pay for with charters surely...?

[GEAR_DOWN]

The EAE 737-200 most probably started its flting days with thomsonfly anyways ( then Britannia airways) as they operated with 737-200's. If they were not safe they would certainately not be flying. There are older aircraft still flting today with a plawless safety record so why should it be any different? Just because an airplane is new it doesn't make it any safer:confused:

[Mr A Tis]

AH only ever flew for SABENA before going to European in 2000.
Does anyone know the hours / cycles on it?
The B732s that Britannia had were disposed of many moons ago as they were noisy & expensive to operate/maintain. The majority of which no longer fly with anyone.
There are other factors of course, Noise pollution, CO2 pollution & the thirsty engines, poor interior comfort.......when compared to the NG.
If you want to compare with other transport modes then I recently called into the bus museum in Manchester, where several of the bus exhibits are barely 20 years old.
Mr Perkin, I bought a ticket to fly a scheduled service with Thomsonfly from T2 Manchester, but got a EAF flight from T1 with no notification of either operator or Terminal change, despite TOM arranging this months in advance.

[22/04]

The CAA site G-INFO says total hours


58570 at 31/12/2005

As with the others here I would have no safety fears regarding any UK airline. My advice; travel but take it up with your tour operator as not being what you were promised, unless you don't want the hoiday any more.

Find out more by typing G-INFO into Google and following the link

[Ex Captain Jones]

In reply to the comment that "if you want a new aircraft to fly on, pay more" I have just had 2 excellent cheap flights on an Irish budget carrier, happy in the knowledge that both aircraft were under 2 years old. The flights in AH was part of a very expensive Thomson package. :rolleyes:

[Wycombe]

....and sometimes you can pay more and fly in an older 737, like those that BA operate out of LGW. Some up to about 17 years old if you check.

Conclusion - the age of the airframe should really mean nothing from a pax point of view.

[Mr A Tis]

....and sometimes you can pay more and fly in an older 737, like those that BA operate out of LGW. Some up to about 17 years old if you check

17 years old? You mean almost half the age of a European one then?
The age issue you make is true to a point, but I think when you get to over the 30 year mark...we are talking about vintage aircraft rather than classics.

If you have booked with an airline that details two pages on their sustainable aviation policy & how fantastic their "green" & "enviromentally" credetials are then I think you have some kind of expectations of what they will provide.

If TOM has planned a substitution months in advance, for a five week period, planned a change of operator and even planned a departure terminal change,then I don't think it's unreasonable to communicate this to your customers. The customer then can make an informed choice if they still want to use this service,which is not what was advertised or sold.

[Final 3 Greens]

the customer then can make an informed choice if they still want to use this service,which is not what was advertised or sold.

I would check your T&Cs for your sub charter rights, which I think you will find allow you to do diddly squat about the situation.

You will travel on an aircraft that operates under UK law ad meets UK standards.

If you don't like what has happened (which I can sort of understand), then you have the choice to use a different company next time.

[perkin]

I could understand you being upset if a 50 year old cargo DC-3 was substituted in, but the aircraft you boarded was certified as airworthy for passenger flights into and out of the UK. At the end of the day, you could book a biz class ticket to the US for several thousand quid on BA and end up on a 747 approaching 20 yrs old.

Did your ticket guarantee a brand new 737 I wonder?? I suggest you take your complaint direct to Thomson as you don't seem to be listening to anything anyone says here... :)

[Rainboe]

There's nothing wrong with the old Classics. I would happily travel anywhere on this or any other aeroplane on the UK register. It's a tough aeroplane, and a well maintained one (as everything on the UK register is) is as good as any other. What counts is the professionalism, training and experience of your crew. Maybe not quite as comfy as some, but it will only be a short flight anyway- it doesn't matter- sit back and enjoy the holiday, confident the CAA has endorsed every aspect of their operation. I'm sure in the 'comfy' stakes, it's as good as any other. I've just done a holiday flight on an XL 767, and whilst there is no complaint at all, I just found the seat extremely 'tight'. Rather than grumble about it, I appreciate the lowering of costs of the holiday this permits!

[Ex Captain Jones]

Just when I was looking forward to taking a flight on Jet 2, what do I board ?
Yes you have guessed it. Dear old G-ECAH !!
Same pressurisation noise and wailing Pratt and Whitneys.
The flight wasn't cheap either. Will I grow to love her ?

[chainsaw]

Some people would give their back teeth to get on a -200 these days.

Agree! Flew in a 'classic' from Brisbane to Port Moresby (and back) a few months ago in Ozjet's 732. A little bit slower than pixie's B767 service, but a great trip, clean and tidy aircraft, and very comfortable!

[fendant]

And the American's are transporting their children in school buses who had their last design review in 1942. So 1975 is not too bad, US technology did not make significant evolution since then.

Frank

[chainsaw]

Ex CJ

Same pressurisation noise and wailing Pratt and Whitneys

You're obviously used to the 'classic' :8

Actually, the Ozjet aircraft wasn't too bad! In-cabin aircon was surprisingly 'restrained' from the noise perspective! :}

I 'cut my teeth' on JT8s in the RHS on 727s, then went back onto 732s, then back to 727 in the LHS before going to LHS on on 733/4s. Having started off with about 5 years RHS on F27 the noise on 727 and 732's was an absolute 'pleasure' in comparison to that experienced on the 'mouse'!

[Dan Air 87]

As the other posts say here- if the 737-200 weren't safe then they wouldn't be allowed to fly. I would love to fly in a -200 Classic again more than the boring 737-300's etc. I have spent a long time hopping around Europe in these machines and would love to fly on one again. Any ideas where I can get a trip on one?

[PAXboy]

Dan Air 87 South Africa has about 30 active on the register with two or three carriers.

Nationwide have a very special model 732 at the moment, a sort of 73-1.5 as it lost the No.2 at FACT t'other week. Details in African Aviation:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=299389

[Hokulea]

Dan Air. Sorry, I'm going to mention an equally distant place, but Aloha Airlines use the 737-200 for their Hawaiian inter-island flights. I haven't flown on one for a year or two but that's because they use open seating, no other reason.

[flt_lt_w_mitty]

but that's because they use open seating - sadly, in the case of Aloha, not just the seating:{

[MrSoft]

I spent half the 90's going back and forth Man-Paris on BA's old 732's and I miss them. Fun to perch just behind the wing, and watch the reverser buckets doing their thing. Lovely evocative noise too. Ryanair were still using an especially scabby old example on Man-Dub until 2 years ago which appeared to be more patches than fuselage.

Mr A you have a sound customer service gripe but no reason to fear safety.

[WHBM]

I would love to have another go on a 737-200. What are we complaining about ? And if a brand-new Q400 lets my airline down yet again one day and they decide to subcharter in the Air Atlantique DC-3, that would be perfection.

Those Ryanair 732s with patches were great. My last flight ever on the type was on the one with the Hertz logo paint scheme, Bristol to Dublin. Engineering appeared to have obtained some special High-Speed tape of (almost) the same yellow colour to try and match in the patching.

[Anotherflapoperator]

Civil aircraft will often go through several cabin re-fits over their lifespan. A lot of what goes in is reconditioned stuff, not new, but there's no doubt, a well used airframe will wear out it's interior to a very shabby condition in about 4-6 years.

Usually every major check, the whole interior comes out and what can't be stitched up, painted over or araldited back together will be replaced.

The 737-200 you mention will be on it's umpteenth interior fit by now, so who knows how old the bits you see are?

An older aircraft may well be a lot nicer inside than a far newer one, but unfortunately, in the case of the 732, the vibration and thunder of those old engines will shake it all loose in no time.

The real problem for these aircraft is fuel consumption, cost and noise restrictions. The UK CAA doesn't want any of the -200s on it's register, but can't simply send them packing. Hush kits help, as does restricting take off weights and reduced power take-offs, but they're noisy, inefficient, and polluting old things.

Pilots call the 737-200 Jurassic, not classic, BTW. The 300-500s are classics, and the fancy news ones that no-one can buy because Mr O'Leary has the production line sewn up, are Next Generations. Too much star Trek for me.....

The -700s and -800s are more efficient than the -3/4/5 series, but nowhere near as much a leap as the 3/4/500 was from the old -200. They still burn 3 tonnes ish an hour, just go higher and a lot farther than they did.

Boeings age well, they are all built strong and built to last, so a fresh paint, a pair of recon engines and a fresh interior and they'll be as reliable and servicable as a new'un. Which is just as well, because if you do want a new -800 you'll probably have to buy it second hand from Ryanair, for more than they paid for it!

Not that I've flown much in any of them really.

[TSR2]

If you are still interested in a flight on a good old B732, European are operating a series of 'Santa' flights this month from MAN to Enontekio on the 2nd, 14th 15th, 16th 19th, 23rd, 27th and 30th.

[Rainboe]

Anotherflapop- not a bad critique of the 737 series. We use the 700NG for ETOPs. Setting off across the Atlantic, our fuel consumption is roundabout 2000kgs/hr+ We always get it below 2000kgs/hr. Ihave used the NG for 7 hour flights from Central Africa, and 6 hour ETOPs Atlantic flights. Amazingly versatile remembering the old 200s which I flew.

No blasted IFE though.

[RingwaySam]

Nationwide have been grounded, which is a big shame.

http://travel.iafrica.com/flights/697410.htm

If you are still interested in a flight on a good old B732, European are operating a series of 'Santa' flights this month from MAN to Enontekio on the 2nd, 14th 15th, 16th 19th, 23rd, 27th and 30th.

Just trying to work out whats cheaper. Going to South Africa/Hawaii or going to see Santa for the day! :\

[Contacttower]

BA Comair still have a few 737-200s in South Africa and they look very smart in the British Airways livery. It's a pity about Nationwide though, I'd have loved to go on one of their 727s.

[MrSoft]

Comair is a great airline. I just flew Comair JNB to CPT but obviously missed the 737-200s! Fantastic crew advising on the relative qualities between three bottles of (excellent) red wine they had on the go. Had to rub my eyes for a moment. Those South Africans love their wine!