Cathay VRS Emirates : Culture / lifestyle

[Dusk till Prawn]

Could anyone please tell me if they have left either Cathay or Dragon for Emirates or Emirates for CX or KA?

If so what are the pro’s and cons for a change.....I am considering leaving Hong Kong and would appreciate honest comparisons in regards to life style and company culture in Emirates as opposed to Cathay.

The package at EK is a good improvement and not much less than a B scale driver at CX.

Dubai has better beaches , better housing , cabin crew that like to socialize on overnights …….. the list goes on!

Information much appreciated.

Dusk till Prawn.

[Oceanic]

This one has been discussed fairly recently..in relation to Dragonair v Ek...try http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=275596 Not too mainy sociable cabin crew at Ek any more, and beaches rapidly being developed...

[Macaroon]

You'll have to check out the thread above re. pilot T's & C's as I'm not crew but as to your other reasons for considering a career move to DXB ...

Better beaches - ever decreasing public beaches due to development, waiting lists for beach clubs not uncommon, public beaches not that great, full of leching perves (more of a minus if you are female or have a family).

Better housing - depends on what you consider decent housing, plenty of discussions threads on this too. May be better than Hong Kong but there are still things to watch out for whether in company housing, renting or buying.

Cabin crew that like to party - if this is even on your criteria for reasons to move careers I think you are footloose and fancy free and have no ties. You're right, plenty of nightlife in DXB even if crew are not up for it down route. Just come for the laugh and you can always leave when it doesn't work out.

Bon chance mon ami:ok:

[PITA]

Please tell me you did not write that last post sober...........

[Yossarian]

Wow! :eek:

[Dusk till Prawn]

Cathay has always had its fair share of problems just like Emirates, but now that the EK package is better Dubai is becoming a more appealing place to live.

At CX we do split duties back of the clock shuttles min rest in most places so in fairness it's not much different to what the guys at EK are doing. At least you might get a 48hr layover in some places with EK.

The air pollution in HK is beyond a joke some days ....we've had a week of nice weather now and thats quite rare.

I guess some people will despise CX and HK and others the same with EK in Dubai!

If you bought a flat in Dubai out right with cash say.....can you just claim and pocket the 10,000DH's or do you only get allocated the money when you have a lease or a loan on a place?

My Quest Continues many thanks!:bored:

[jinglied]

..Excuse me for being a bit ignorant of the details here but, as I seem to recall several years back colleagues of mine at the time joined CX and the package then at CX was better than EK is NOW. I am talking strictly from a salary point of view, F/O pay. VAT in the Gulf will happen sooner or later. Like Hong Kong dollar, Durham is fixed to U.S. dollar, and we have lost value just like you have over the last few years.

Cabin crew socializing enroute? Hmmm... guess it must be me, cause I don't see it often. In Dubai itself, yup, you'll get laid. There's a really great bar here called Cyclone's...very friendly girls. Many Chinese, you will feel just like you were in H.K. :E

The huge advantage that CX has over EK is basings. If you are weary of H.K., I think you will probably become weary of Dubai. There is one and only one place to live with this company, and that is a huge "lifestyle" consideration.

Jinglie'd

[Saltaire]

I think you can just claim the utility allowance and do what you like without a lease or contract like cx requires...

They are such different cities and tough to compare. I think generally a family would be better suited to dxb, but a single person would likely be happier in HK. More of a pulse and better night life, culture, options, etc....having said that, dxb is expanding rapidly and new things are opening all the time. Beach clubs and fitness clubs are good, you can drive and get out to one of the other emirates or desert. Socially, EK might be a bit better with some exotic cabin crew but it's no Virgin:O

Airline network is similar with many pairing options, and rotating seniority. Command is a deck of cards at EK, but only recently on the Airbus, and both fleets will likely expand together in 08 and 09 with many deliveries on both fleets. The 380 really hurt the bus fleet and commands are currently running a year behind the 777 fleet....change is one certainty in EK and dxb. Works out well for some and disadvantages others...

I agree that the big difference between the two is a basing opportunity. I think most would stay with EK if not for dxb.... much like HKG, it can drive people crazy and they just have to get out.

[nolimitholdem]

Oh, and Cyclones was closed down recently..or was it opened again?

:p

[Emma Rate]

From Dubai:
Are you into watersports? Kite surfing is pretty good here still. Yes, beach access has become less but there is still quite a bit more than HKG. Air pollution is a problem here too, but again most days better than HKG. With the metro coming on in the next few years and hopefully a massive roadtax to get everybody out of their cars it may stay at present level.

What about your seniority at CX and a possible basing in Europe or Aus with them?

[gatvol2006]

Cathay :ok:

[FlyingCroc]

Wonder what the sun does to you guys in the sandpit. :E We call that a cathouse :}
Yeah and Dubai has so much more to offer than Hongkong and much more sun. I sell you a bridge :cool:

[C-17 GLOBEMASTER III]

I would really love to work for Emirates or Cathay some day, but this forum has pretty much turned into an Emirates bashing forum! nothing but negative comments abut Emirates and dubai, can't any one give some kind of an objective view of the place and job?

[pissedoffpilotek]

C 17 there have been many objective views on previous threads!

AS far as the topic at hand goes I would not leave CX for EK but I would leave KA for EK. Having lived in HKG and DXB I can safely say that I had more money in HKG at the end of each month. DXB is getting more expensive and yes you can go an buy yourself a villa at company expense but somewhere decent now costs a small fortune... then the developer triples the maintenance costs to 30000 dhs per year to water the lawns in the public areas, throw in all your bills and see what is left. If you had brought a villa a few years ago that is not a problem because of capital growth, however, how high can the prices go?

A B scale FO at CX or KA gets paid almost as much as a capt at EK. Yes there is tax in hkg 15% but that is taken care of by the 13 month salary. KA spends multiple nights in crap destinations, at least CX stays in civilized parts. Would you rather do turn arounds leaving DXB at 3am on a regular basis or have your min rest layovers in asia....It seems like you are single and want to party....in that case at least where CX flies it is easy to find a friend, and you dont have to rely on the crew!

As Far as the partying goes.... most of the crew are too tired these days. they fly much harder than the girls at CX over 100hrs per month and generally they dont bother coming out.

There are already multiple threads about the command situation and you can very easily get screwed over here depending on when you join and which fleet you go on.

There is as much **** to deal with in DXB as there is in HKG. If you are looking for a change then fair enough..apply ... but dont expect it to be better here...IT IS NOT!

[ruserious]

can't any one give some kind of an objective view of the place and job?
You are never going to get objective on a forum like this, just peoples subjective experiences. If you care to look back about 7-10 years, you will find nothing but good said about EK and indeed we used to defend the company vigorously in those days. Times have changed, our management does not even attempt to be honest, caring or really give a damn about safety.
What you get here on the forum is the external symptoms of a chronic disease, ignore them at your discretion.

[picu]

can't any one give some kind of an objective view of the place and job?
C-17, quite right, lots of EK bashing going on. Remember though that ultimately each post here is the personal opinion of the poster so it's hard to arrive to a sane conclusion unless you get each of the 1800 (?) pilots at EK posting here ( now THAT would be an exercise!)
At the end of the day EK is just like most other companies and has its pros and cons. It's only the individual pilot's perspective that is different. For example, you can have 2 pilots on exactly the same conditions, with the same number of kids, cars, mortgages back home, overheads etc. but their attitude is totally opposite. To return to the original thread question from DtP, it would be useless for me to say if EK is better than CX. It would be just as useless for an ex- CX pilot now at EK to do the same. Why? Again it depends on each person's individual perspective. What Dtp should do is make a list of the FACTS, both good and bad, and finally come over to DXB to see for himself. One problem is that sometimes the FACTS get twisted here on PPRUNE - some aspects are shown as being more negative and some as more positive than they really are. ( No intention to bash PPRUNE - still think it's the greatest :) ) A few points:
Salary : this should be fairly easy to work out mainly because the figures recently posted seem correct. What's more difficult is working out the costs and hence how much can one save. The best option really is to come over for a week os so and do some shopping, including groceries etc. Regarding expenses for hobbies etc. it really depends what you enjoy. Beaches etc. are cheap. Golf is not.
Accomodation: what pissedoffflightdeck said is very true, but only for those guys who opt to take the housing allowance and rent their own place. I think EK accomodation is an excellent deal - it's basically hassle free. Very nice to not have to budget for electricity bills etc.
Rostering/lifestyle - varies with fleet etc. Yes, most EK pilots work hard, but I find there is still plenty of room for free time. (how much is enough??!!) Layovers are generally 24 hours long, which for me, is fairly perfect, not so for others. Destination mix is very good, especially on the 777.
Nightlife Can't really comment - married with kids, so no more parties for me. There seems to be a reasonable choice of good clubs in town. Booze is expensive. Restaurant choice is amazing.
Command: as a normal F/O without any accelerated command qualifications, expect a fair bit of time to upgrade. Boeing guys currently about 3 years, Airbus 4. This will change again when ( when, when.....) the A380 arrives. Considering the number of aircraft we currently have (just over 100) and the planned total (160?) I would guess anyone joining now would need around 7-8 years to upgrade but this obviously depends on retirement and resignation numbers. Having said that, the rules change often so please do not take my guess as fact.... nor anything else I wrote for that matter!
Do I like it here? Yes, I still love it. I have been here long enough to see our terms and conditions constantly changing, many times for the worse, but my outlook towards life is fairly positive so I still go to work with a smile. The good thing is that now the market has improved to an extent that THERE IS an option of leaving EK to go somewhere else, but I'm happy to stay here as this suits me fine. I have seen pilots resign from EK in the past few months to go back home at the cost of a reduction in their terms and conditions. I have seen others leave EK for an improvement in conditions but to countries where I personally, would not like to live. To each his own.
Ultimately, no matter how much research DtP will make, there will still be an element of "surprise" at things he was not aware of or things that changed after he would have signed the contract for EK, the latter one of the sadder issues in this part of the world. Good luck.

[dessertdude]

got two neighbours who joined EK from Dragon last year (DEC). See if they would like to comment. These are both familyman though, and in that perspective they might like DXB over HKG. Same for me in that respect. Al comes down to your personal cicumstances. Hard to say, but having the choice of basing is always a bonus.

[picu]

Thanks Warlock - you just proved my point. It's all about each pilot's perspective.

Regarding the min days off etc., if you're getting days off down route then you must be getting long layovers (the days off down route rules are well defined). If you did not bid for long layovers (which can also contribute to you getting min days off in the first place), then obviously the rostering let you down. Remember there's always the option of calling dear Evita and dialling 2. Go with the system, not against it.

$100 for a bottle of wine? That is entirely your choosing. I refuse to pay something like that. Have a family to raise....I guess in a way you're lucky that you don't so you needn't worry about putting away money for the kids' education. Again, not meaning to criticise - to each his own.

****. I'm going to have to stop smiling then. Don't feel like getting a new PPrune identity......:(

[freddi16]

Hi Picu Check Your Pm Thanks

[picu]

I see your point about shafting a colleague if you call in sick but that's why we have standbys and in any case I just refuse to operate a flight if I'm too tired from lousy rostering. Catch 22 I suppose.
Anyway Dtp sorry for hijacking your thread.
Cheers all.

[mini cooper]

I think there is another angle to the CX/ EK topic for those of you that think both CX and EK are the most desirable places around. In both cases when you arrive you think you have really made it, maybe young and single getting paid a good wage lots of crew to party with etc etc. Then however you get married (maybe to one of the crew who grabed you the moment you went out on your first night!!), maybe you were already married when you arrived, either way you are then into different territory, the whole place changes slightly you get different priorities, then kids arrive and boy it really changes. The once good pay packet gets dented in a major way, you are not able to party as before and you suddenly realise how far you are away from your family and your country back home (in my case I really appreciate my home country more than I realised I did when I first came to DXB). This does affect how you feel towards Cx or EK. At CX you have basings so problem solved to some extent, at EK no basings so this is the point at which you have to decide to stay and put up with it or get going. As people have said you have to way things up then live with the decision.
So I would say that it is not a decision of whether CX or EK is better, it is more a decision of whether you could put up with living in the environment of HKG or DXB long term, then add to this the comments about CX and EK management, and there you have it, it is up to you.

PS if you didn't know HKG - hot and sticky all year, 24/7!!! / DXB - summer is stupidly ****ing hot and sticky, cools down at night to a temperature similar to the temp HKG is most of the year(a bit like a sauna)!!Winter DXB is wonderful so you live for the nice 6 months a year.
Make your choice!!:ok:

[jinglied]

Aye, aye referring to the families.

Without a doubt, Dubai is the most dangerous place that I have ever driven, I worry about my family on the highway's here. Fatal accidents here are almost a daily occurence, accidents are DEFINITELY a daily occurence. :bored: The best line of defence?.. A large SUV. And don't feed your children too much of the local milk. Pellet fed cattle, lots of antibiotics.

Oh..and quality of work/materials here is pathetic, in almost every area.

I know H.K. has it's issues as well, (Dubai, at least is not as polluted yet) but to move from CX to EK, or vice versa, doesn't seem like a good idea. Same types of problems.

Jinglie'd

[Cpt. Underpants]

mini PS if you didn't know HKG - hot and sticky all year, 24/7!!! - maybe in your girlfriends' apartment! You must be thinking of Singapore mate.
Hong Kong weather is great from October through April - lovely in fact.
Hong Kong's climate is sub-tropical, tending towards temperate for nearly half the year. During November and December there are pleasant breezes, plenty of sunshine and comfortable temperatures. Many people regard these as the best months of the year. January and February are more cloudy, with occasional cold fronts followed by dry northerly winds. It is not uncommon for temperatures to drop below 10 C in urban areas. The lowest temperature recorded at the Observatory is 0 C, although sub-zero temperatures and frost occur at times on high ground and in the New Territories.
March and April can also be very pleasant although there are occasional spells of high humidity. Fog and drizzle can be particularly troublesome on high ground which is exposed to the southeast, and air traffic and ferry services are occasionally disrupted because of reduced visibility.May to August are hot and humid with occasional showers and thunderstorms, particularly during the mornings. Afternoon temperatures often exceed 31 C whereas at night, temperatures generally remain around 26 C with high humidity. There is usually a fine dry spell in July which may possibly last for one to two weeks, or for even longer in some years.September is the month during which Hong Kong is most likely to be affected by tropical cyclones, although gales are not unusual at any time between May and November. On average, about 31 tropical cyclones form in the western North Pacific or China Seas every year, and about half of them reach typhoon strength (maximum winds of 118 kilometres per hour or more).When a tropical cyclone is about 700 to 1000 kilometres southeast of Hong Kong, the weather is usually fine and exceptionally hot, but isolated thunderstorms sometimes occur in the evenings. If the centre comes closer to Hong Kong, winds will increase and rain can become heavy and widespread. Heavy rain from tropical cyclones may last for a few days and subsequent landslips and flooding sometimes cause considerably more damage than the winds.The mean annual rainfall ranges from around 1300 millimetres at Waglan Island to more than 3000 millimetres in the vicinity of Tai Mo Shan. About 80 percent of the rain falls between May and September. The wettest month is August, when rain occurs about four days out of seven and the average monthly rainfall at the Observatory is 391.4 millimetres. The driest month is January, when the monthly average is only 23.4 millimetres and rain falls only about six days a month