Ravenair

[Currymonster]

Anyone got any opinions re doing a CPL/ME and an IR at Ravenair. Any other opinions about any othe FTO's in the North West.
I have done some searching on previous posts and seen several comments re Ravenair, albeit they seem to be slightly dated.. Mostly positive.

[maxdrypower]

I did ppl at ravenair , very good outfit some good characters and excellent instructors , you also get the large airport side of the course also which i imagine is good for the cpl . I would recommend them to anyone , but obviously each individuals needs are different , visit rvr if only to meet Primo , the mans a legend

[JUST-local]

North west is a bit limited for CPL IR FI(r), Ravenair seem to have a good setup but have no approved simulator, well they did not last year, I am unsure of the benafit of paying through the nose flying round in a PA38 for IR training!
The minimum I would entertain for IR training would be a PA28 with the same avionics as the a/c you will take the IR skill test in.

just my 2p..........

[adverse-bump]

they use a fmpt-II based at salford uni. go down there and ask them all these questions, u'll get much more reliable answers than pprune!

[PLATO_Y2K]

Can't comment on their CPL/IR training, but as a couple of others have said, good school, nice people, they now have a base out of Barton Manchester but I believe this is mainly for PPL training. I did my PPL with them and they were very professional and knowledgable. Their is a sim at Salford Uni that Ravenair are using, I have just graduated from the uni and is a pretty impressive bit of kit!
All the best,:ok:

Craig

[JUST-local]

Airbus38

"What's so special about a PA28?"

Nothing is special about most PA28's.

I have looked round ravenair's PA38's and like most PA38's and C152's they were not really equipped for IR training, they were significantly different from the Aztec which you would take your test in, no HSI or RMI and significantly slower. I Just meant that the minimum I (ME) would find useful is a PA28 with some similar decent equipment in it.

However as they have the use of an FNPT II it is irrelevant as they are obviously moving forward, they should maybe update their website which currently states 35 or 40 hours in a 38 as part of the IR package.
I can only go off my experience which was a good one but with no Sim.......

[horsebox]

JD aviation at Manchester is worth a look, small school, but supportive and professional.

[Currymonster]

Cheers for the replies thus far guys

[Bob Stinger]

Its a shame though that Ravenair can not answer a simple question by email!
Even sent it again had a reply saying that they had passed it on to the Flying School manager , I would have thought nine days was long enough to answer. Very slack.

[bobster1]

Bob Stinger, fairly standard that for Ravenair, you phone the school, no answer, its gets diverted upto ops, leave a message, and low and behold it does not get passed to school, same with emails.
They need someone full time as flight school reception, taking calls, making bookings, meeting and greeting etc etc, I have lost count of the times I have turned up to find A/C double booked, or gone tech and not so much as a courtesy call to say so before journeying there.
Fairly recently 2 cpl students have turned up on test day, to find the A/C have disappeared on a charter, letter of complaint sent in and not even an acknowledgment, never mind apology or a couple of free hours to get back upto speed. And this is not the 1st time this has happened.
The aircraft have seen better days to say the least, very poorly equipped, and generally more tech A/C than servicable, and you pay a top rate for them, people generally dont feel confident flying them, not ideal for commercial flight training.
If you want the price quoted for the CPL and IR then you have to pay for course upfront, how many times have you read or heard not to pay large sums upfront!
Unfortunately there is a lack of CPL/IR training providers in the North West, Ravenair have not moved with the times because they have no competition in the area, I am sure if a new school opened with a slick operation, modern aircraft and facilities, concentrating on there core business of commercial flight training then Ravenair would suffer heavily in this department.
On a positive, the instructors are good, know there stuff and do the best with what they have got to work with.

[bobster1]

They have lost there IR instructor who walked out last week, leaving them in a spot of bother, no replacement as yet!
Flight school manager has apparently relinquished his role (again no replacement) and is only instructing part time now. so if you want to do full time CPL be prepared for a different instructor a couple of times a week, not really good for continuity.

There is now no computer available for students, for flight planning, WX, etc, just the one in the instructors office, not ideal for a busyish flight school, go to most places that care about there students (not saying the instructors dont care, just the company in general) and they have dedicated flight planning areas for students with p.c. terminals for the use of flight planning.

Seriously think it through before making any firm plans to go to this place.

[Currymonster]

Sounds ominous doesnt it! I have made alternative arangements. Its a shame as I had high hopes for Ravenair. Also a shame that the North west of England is somewhat lackig in the Flight school department.

Having said that I have heard a lot of positive stuff re JD aviation at EGCC

[EGCC4284]

Ravenair

I did my CPL/IR with you and that was ok at that time. 2005.

I enjoyed my time there but only came to you because of your IR instructor

You really need a kick up your arse as your attitude to customers is poor.

You have now lost Craig. What does that say. He is the only reason I came to you.

Make your minds up. Do you want to teach CPL and IR's or not. Get you act together.

I loved my time with you and loved your Aztecs. Great memories. Love my time there and thanks for all you did. You need to think hard about your future in flight training and stop thinking that everyone should be grateful they come to you.

A shame really as you have good aircraft, good facility's and great airport.

Your customer service is bad. I never hear about your school advertising your CPL/IR training..

All I hear is people being let down.

If I was a rich man, I would set a school up in the North West as the is a market here for it. JD Aviation is a close contender for you.

You need to give your CPL/IR training to someone who gives a damn and let them develop it. Maybe you should of gave it to Craig and made him an offer he could not refuse.

Your Aztecs are great. I loved them.

[bobster1]

shame really as you have good aircraft, good facility's

Dont agree with this, the aircraft are poor, they leak, stink inside of mould/damp, no equipment in them, bits hanging off, generally pretty tatty, and you pay top rate for them!
Some have recently had a paint job, that make them look ok from a distance, but step inside and that soon changes.

And the facility itself, well as mentioned on a previous post, no pc for flight planning, photocopier has never worked so you cant even take a copy of the wx or notams that are put up on the board, and the place looks like a shanty town of old portacabins.

The rest of it spot on, they do need a kick up the arse.
Speak with any CPL or IR student currently there, or of recent times and they will not have the best things to say about Ravenair and if they had there time again would have gone elsewhere.

[horsebox]

Craig Padfield, their very well respected CPL/IR/FI instructor has left for pastures new, a big loss for them.

To echo other posts above, they need a shake up in terms of the flying school. Employ a receptionist to speak to people who phone up, and get back to basics in terms of communicating and looking after their customers.

[EGCC4284]

The only reason I went to Ravenair in the first place was because Craig was there. A great instructor. A shame he has left but I am sure The Flight Centre at Wolverhampton will gain from his arrival.

I passed IR first attempt with his help and hard work.

Also got a great sence of humour

Best of luck Craig

[DX Wombat]

The Flight Centre at Wolverhampton will gain from his arrival.
not only that, they already have an excellent CPL/IR FI and it's also only about one and a half hours drive down there from Liverpool.
Oh, and by the way, it's HALFPENNY GREEN!
Yes, I know it's officially Wolverhampton Halfpenny Green but nobody mentions the "Wolverhampton" bit unless forced to do so.

[garywoodrow]

Got to agree that Ravenair has good facilities and good airport but the customer care is really bad. I'm yet to start my training but I did get a trial lesson as a christmas present last year. However when i went to go on this trial flight i was told no, because i aparently should have been given a voucher, which i did not get, only a scrappy reciept with a voucher number written on it. Cutting out the boring details i ended up paying for 2 lessons and still, have not been refunded or given me my lesson which has been paid for. I was told to write a letter to Jeff Nutall which i did several months ago, yet still no reply.

I was planning on doing all my training from 0 - IR at Ravenair but with the few experiences i have had, i think i really need to re-consider where to spend my money.

:rolleyes:

[bobster1]

Got to agree that Ravenair has good facilities and good airport but the customer care is really bad. I'm yet to start my training but I did get a trial lesson
Mate you have done a trial lesson, you cant say good facilities for flight training after a trial lesson, no offence. Listen to the people doing commercial training there that cant access web info that they need to, speak to the guy who did an IMC test yesterday but could not complete it as not one of the 13 Tomahawks had an ILS in it that worked, bearing in mind they use these for most part of the CPL and Instrument Rating. Will he get free use of an A/C to complete this part of the test, NO, will the Ravenair directors care? NO..
Speak with the instructor who found a pair of pliers in the engine bay of a Tomahawk that had just come out of a service.
Rhys, you have just lifted all your woffle from there home page, the new hangers (built 2002 and 2004) have sweet FA to do with the flying school, and the only time the school A/C are in there is for eng work, other than that only PAYING customers A/C are kept in there..

[bobster1]

Mia Donna, you have me all wrong, I am still a commercial student, not at Ravenair, and not as you say obviously still looking for a job, maybe it is a bit of a rant but when you have spent a lot of money (and could have spent a damn site more if I had decided on CPL/IR there) on a companys product you expect a certain level of customer care and a product that works for the customer, in no way is it aimed at the instructors or the engineers at RVR they are all put under strain to perform there duties and far beyond, and do so very well.
I have removed my previous comment re RVR Engineering, as Mia is correct, it is not fair to point fingers at certain sections who do there best with the resources they have.
Engineering have lost some highly experienced guys who are hard to replace, I understand that the A/C are old and heavily used but there has been a few incidents recently, and a number of things wrong with certain A/C that just dont seem to get fixed.
As for liable comments, as Airbus38 has said, they are the truth, thanks Airbus for the support.
There are many guys and gals out there that have passed through RVR, and are now operational within airlines, but surely this is down to there hard work and contacts and not the fact that they went to a certain school.
Mia please dont take my "rant" the wrong way, I have learnt the hard way when choosing schools and it has cost money, all I am really saying is when it comes to choosing a school choose carefully and do your research, this is what this part of the forum is for, feedback from past and current students.
Ravenair is having a difficult spell yes, but as I am sure you are aware, aviation can change overnight, and lets hope it does for what was once a highly regarded school.

[db16]

I do part time MCC training at the Flight Centre; they have an Alsim 200 FNPT2 which, at the click or a mouse, is either a Cheyenne or a Seneca 2. Good guys,and nice too. E is [email protected] and the old fashioned phone is 01384 221477; ask for Philip Morritt. David alias db16:)

The proprietor (HoT and one of the FI instructors) is Malcolm Lassan who often answers the phone

[bobster1]

Rick0,

For PPL training, Ravenair do it well, the instructors are good and the PPL course is VFR flying, so the equipment inside the A/C they have is sufficient.

The main gripe here is regarding commercial flight training.

Best of luck and enjoy it.

[bluepeely]

I agree, the PPL at Ravenair is good. Even at Barton where there is only a couple of wobbly Tomahawks. The aircraft are old but still sufficient and both Liverpool and Barton are interesting places to fly from and the instructors are nice guys.

[matzpenetration]

Have to agree with the comments that have been made. I trained and then worked at Ravenair. Recently, I went back to do some flying and felt like I had stepped back in time. Nothing had changed. Phones not getting answered, crappy buildings, no-one manning the front desk, same old simulator (not working, of course), musty briefing rooms and no computer access for students. One thing doesn't change though, and that is the professional attitude and enthusiasm of the instructors.
The Directors of Ravenair will not spend money and invest because they refuse to acknowledge the opportunity that exists as it would take a long term plan to build a customer base, reputation and finally a profitable commercial training business. One individual in particular always viewed the school with utter contempt and did his best to discourage any investment. His approach was to always go for the fast buck and you cannot do that in flying training. Sadly, he now works there full time.
At this moment in time I would recommend that any potential CPL/IR students follow their gut instinct and toddle off to Multiflight, Wolverhampton or Bristol until someone puts a rocket under the dinosaurs at Ravenair.
I always thought that Cabair would have made a good candidate to buy out Ravenair but I guess it's just too far North. Any potential investors out there?

[KandiFloss]

I have been billed incorrectly on three occasions by their instructors. I pay after my lesson, and then I end up getting another bill from accounts. You wouldn't go into a shop and say, "Oh i'll have that x/y/z thanks", pay for it, then the shop sends you another bill saying "Oh sorry, we didnt charge you enough". How hard can it be to work out a bill?

I also ditto the remarks about the maintenance issues that Ravenair need to look at. Their Warrior (not the dodgy one without the toe brakes :uhoh:) needs some TLC. Last time I flew the aircraft it had had a non-structural repair fixed with gaffer tape/whatever it's called. 'Big deal' you may say, but how much would it cost to repair it properly? Shouldnt all aircraft be treated with respect, well except C-152's :mad: ?

[adverse-bump]

Their Warrior (not the dodgy one without the toe brakes)

erm, Ravenair dont have a Warrior with out toe brakes.

Also Take a look at LAC recent number of accidents compaired to ravenairs...

1x C172 nose gear
1x c152 nose gear
1x pa28 engine failure
1x pa28 engine shock loaded

Im not saying LAC have aircraft problems, it normal to get tech issues with a/c this old.

[maxdrypower]

didnt RVR put one into the barrier fence not many moons ago?
I trained at RVR for a ppl and found them a decent outfit although a lot of problems highlighted here exist . I almost found them to be too busy and the instructors seemed to be run off their feet a lot of the time . They also have the salford uni lot who arrive at the school en-masse and take a lot of time up.I wouldnt be surprised in the same way as commercial school seem to favour spnsored candidates that RVR favour the uni's . I however did not see evidence of this but this was when they very first started doing it .
I never had a problem with billing as it was done from the flight logs which I completed , so if there was an issue I would be the one to blame .
I would defend RVR as they did me a good service albeit a PPL service and I cannot comment on the CPL side although CP is a great bloke and im sure he would be missed .
Perhaps the mishaps listed above are more consistent with grassfield ops than those at a lovely tarmac'd runway airfield . The two PA28 engine probs aside, I dont hink that can be blamed on the training provider. Landing on a gras field , especially one as bump as bartons is bound to get some nosewheel casualties . Most people get protect the nosewheel drumbed into them at barton they certainly do in my group and as mos of RVR's training is LPL based that may account for it
but who knows

[PPRuNeUser0178]

Not sure how vaild my experience is, but I did my Multi and IR there in 2000.

Whole thing was completed in 31 days and that inclued a partial and a cancelled test due wx.

John Dale was my IR instructor, although I think he is no longer there, if he is still teaching then can thouroughly recommend him as an IR instructor, first class:ok:

Although I now drive bigger orange and white aeroplanes I've never been back to LPL yet and would love to pop in to Ravenair just to see how things are now and a thanks.

Also packed in a day at MCT ATC with JD and a day on a 757 with JN, all in all made for a good experience that can cost an arm and a leg if gragged on!

ED

[bobster1]

Adverse bump........why are you talking about accidents, what has that got to do with the thread so far?
Accidents happen, nose wheels collapsing are an all to common event with student pilots, also resulting in shock loading of engines because of it. Ravenair, like any other school have had there fair share of nose wheels, bent props, shock loaded engines, main gear, engine failures, etc, etc,
This thread is regards the decline of the school in general, lack of facilities, things not working correctly in A/C even after maint...Accidents cant be compared to say Ravenair is better than LAC, and as far as I am aware LAC dont do commercial training, which is what this thread is about.

[horsebox]

Have they found a replacement for Craig P yet?