Jetstar application payment???

[swamp monkey]

Is this normal?

INVITATION TO APPLY

JETSTAR PILOT POSITIONS

Congratulations ~ Your application has been assessed as meeting our minimum requirements.

For your application to be processed, please proceed to the application form. Your submitted answers to the application form are saved however please ensure that all of your information is correct, up to date and your contact information is current.

Should you choose to continue with your application for this position, please be aware that Jetstar has introduced an administration fee to partially recover the costs associated with processing the thousands of applications Jetstar receives for each vacancy. This includes costs associated with printing, filing and the manual sort and overview of each application.

Payment will be required at the time of completing the application form and can be made by supplying your credit card details or by mailing a money order to Jetstar. Further details will be provided when you proceed.

Once you submit your final application and administration payment, we will be in contact with you in due course to undertake the recruitment process.
:confused:

[Jenna Talia]

How much lower can this industry go? :ugh::yuk:

[GoNorth]

And how much are they asking for this? :yuk:

[piston broke again]

They have sunk to a new low. Should we also place a gold coin 'donation' as we enter the building to cover carpet cleaning costs and smudges on the glass when we open the door? What a joke!

[Ultralights]

please tell me you didnt continue with the application????:=

[Stubby]

Is anyone here actually surprised by this? :}and by the way you can thank a large portion of our industry for supporting this appauling behaviour and worse by excepting there employment conditions and paying for type ratings!!:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[FlexibleResponse]

Market forces rule in the end!

Heh! Heh!

The cheeky pricks will get their due sometime down the track!

[swamp monkey]

Unfortunately this is not a wind-up. Copied directly from website.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Please correct me if i am misinformed, guys appliying for J* are prepared to cough up $30K for endorsement, suprised they'd notice another $100, hell why don't they make it $1000.

[Ralph the Bong]

Gee....that's not we did it at Ansett.:eek:

[fender]

ehhhhhhhhhhhhh. "there, I have minimum of 10 characters now."

[Sid Departure]

Well, I for one will now apply for a position with Jetstar.
The reason for doing so is to advise them on being told about their "administration fee to partially recover the costs associated with processing the thousands of applications Jetstar receives for each vacancy.", that, sorry I'm not interested. If however, they change this policy, then I'd be more than happy to meet with them. And the same response will be given to "paying for your endorsement".
This is nothing against the guys and gals that currently work for Jetstar, but if enough of us guys that don't wont to work for this airline did the same thing, then we may bring about a change.
post edit- Just been to their web site to apply, and it seems if you don't agree to their terms then you can't proceed any further.:ugh:

[Ultralights]

Just be thankful they wont be charging you about $100K a year to cover their cost of paying you!!

after you cover their costs in training you...........

and cover their costs in the administration in employing you..........

[boofta]

Ultralights, you make a joke about being charged 100,000 per year to
work for these shmucks. Well you actually are, because their pay rates
are such that JQ pilots are being paid about 100,000 less than a reasonable
salary. With the level of productivity asked of JQ pilots they should be
on about 100,000 more per year- schmucks!

[fender]

I would fly a big plane for free. wood bee fun.

[Dashtrash]

I remember a few years back a guy was diligently reading junk mail posted in his letter box and then sending invoices to the company concerned for "consultancy fees". They were reasonably small amounts sent to large companies and for a while he was actually getting cheques in return.

Add up the costs of an application. Valuable hours tabulating logbooks into command/day/night/cross country/sim/ etc, printing and postage costs and of course the cost of acquiring the computer/printer/internet for online applications.

Send an invoice to Jefstar/Qantas for "recruitment specialist services";);) and see what comes back.

[Ultralights]

I would fly a big plane for free. wood bee fun.

I too would love to fly any aircraft for free! but if that aircraft earns an income! i expect some payment.

[cunninglinguist]

Piston broke - don't enter the building in the 1st place

Flexible - dead right :D

Ralph - :}:}:}:}:}:E:E:ok::ok::ok:


.oh and Ralph, in Ansett, we did'nt say " thats not how we did it in ansett " :}:}:}:}:

[Mr. Hat]

tiger: you could fill your bottle of water up in the toilets at the airport....:D

[Field plougher]

I thought I'd reapply, after withdrawing my application a few months ago.
Came across this application fee. Its 15 dollars, which isn't much, but I thought, bugger that, its an immoral company as it is, let alone taking a little bit deeper for their satisfaction.
There are better companies out there...be stong people, DO NOT succumb to these half wits.:=

[GUARD]

The wheel ALWAYS turns in life and I think we'll all be around to see it turn on these c@#%$ in the very near future when they run out of desperates who want to pay their way ahead.

Not really knocking the applicants as much as the opportunistic grubs who come up with these pay for everything schemes. Honestly! They are charging $5:00 for those tacky wings. Anyone who thinks this is okay " has a mental problem ".

GUARD:mad:

[bullamakanka]

I wont be ever applying for this "company" unless they make some drastic changes. I really hope they get caught out in the fututre but I think the masses still have a way to go until they stop accepting these conditions.

[fender]

pilots are gay

[Ultralights]

the paying for everything wont change sadly..

you have a credit card? you pay a fee for the privalidge of paying! pay cash? cant do that.. its credit card only! (cant put a fee on paying with cash!)

the user pays thing has permeated all aspects of society.. when will it end?

[Track Direct]

Sid Dep

Agree with your post !:ok:

I gladly won't be agreeing to their current terms & conditions:= :yuk:

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

This is really disgusting. There are reasonably strong whispers floating around that the endorsement fee will become a bond style arrangement. Already the shortage is starting to bite back!!.

There are some long of fences around airports. If you know what I mean.

DM

[capt available]

Quite happy with a large regional who i have been with for a while and really amazed with the amount of guys moving on to jet jobs in recent months, like a couple a week !!
Thinking about moving on myself but with the s@@t this mob is pulling im still to be convinced that the 10 years of blood sweat and tears i have put into getting to where i am..... are they even worthy of my application and that of my peers??

[Worrals in the wilds]

This is scummy, but not new.
Impulse charged an "administration" fee for flight attendant applications when they started up, about twenty dollars from memory. It was for the initial application, too.
I don't know how long they kept it up for, but I remember they came in for a fair bit of criticism in the media.
Twenty dollars multiplied by a few thousand applicants would have been a tidy little earner. :yuk:

[dodgybrothers]

its not new, they even did it in Ansett, well at least at hazos

[Blue-Footed Boobie]

Ultralights.. it will change, even the greedy arrogant sycophants running pornstar know that they will be using their shiny new planes as advertising billboards parked up against a fence somewhere in the very near future.

The answer has always been simple but pilots who pay for the rating only screw it up for the rest.

Just answer 'No' when filling out the online application form, perhaps just ignore them altogether. Then you'll see some progress.

Blue Foot

[piston broke again]

Here's a thought...someone drop a line to the media and make them chuck it on the news. Can't be that hard. If every pruner sent in an email to Ch7/9/10 surely they would get it on the news. Might make J* sit up...then lay back down of course, but worth a shot.

[aircraft]

The ignorance of capitalist economics that is displayed in this thread is breathtaking.

Hands up all those that hold shares in some company.

Now, of you shareholders, how many of you have no objection to your company not recovering those costs of doing business that are easily recoverable?

This is the economic argument for the application fee. It is the exact same argument that applies to "charging for the endorsement". Very simple, and surely very simple to understand.

The issue of whether to charge for such things, and how much to charge, is also governed by simple economics. Think "supply and demand" and things may start to make some sense.

Despite what you probably think, those in charge of airline recruiting are not idiots and are well aware of the effects of such charges. They know how many applicants they have, the quality of those applicants, and how many get all the way through the process. If it should become necessary to enlarge the pool of applicants, such "barriers" will be lowered accordingly.

By the way, it is not necessarily true that an airline will have a higher standard of pilot if they weren't to charge for such things.

[Shouldhe]

From Aircraft "By the way, it is not necessarily true that an airline will have a higher standard of pilot if they weren't to charge for such things."

I must agree. Since when did paying for anything (application / endorsement) mean you were a bad/inexperienced/ pilot? If I'm not mistaken, we all paid for our training - except the military types. Because we paid, does that make us all bad eggs who are jumping the cue??
Isn't paying for a type rating (as unpalatable as it is) just an extension to our training? How many here have had a GA boss say "come work for me flying my twins - oh you don't have a twin endorsement?? don't worry I'll cover that!" NOT MANY I BET!

Don't get me wrong - I would rather have the cash in my pocket than in theirs, but lets get real - and just in case you haven't read it somewhere else on this forum - supply and demand.

You can sit there with the attitude that the World/J*/VB OWE you something because you're a pilot, or you can accept the conditions on offer at the time, and make something out of it. Why are the majors expected to pay for your rating, when every other rating/training you have conducted in the past has been self funded?

Do hospitals pay for Doctors to go to Uni??
"Hello hospital, I've done a few splints, put on a few bandages and dressed a pretty nasty paper cut. I see you are advertising for qualified Doctors - no, I'm not fully qualified, but if you pay for my degree, I'd love to work for you."

Paying for everything sucks - if you are the payee, but is great if you are the company/shareholders.

It is a brave new world.

[Sid Departure]

aircraft, from your profile you state you are an ATPL holder and your current type is a PA28.
Not knowing you, I can only assume that you're new to the industry and with an ATPL you may wish to make avaition your career?
The statement you have made displays a huge degree of naivety.
Do you seriously want to work in the industry you have discribed?
If your aim in life is to become an "airline pilot", then what prospects do you hold for your long term career, if you accept the conditions you endorse?

[flyhardmo]

Can't be that hard. If every pruner sent in an email to Ch7/9/10 surely they would get it on the news
Good idea. This will go well with news of Qanta and jetstar having the worst service.
I'm writing to a current affair now. Maybe all of you should do the same.
http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/feedback/default.aspx?formid=228

[rodney rude]

Sorry Sid, I reckon "aircraft" is probably righter than you may think. I do think, unfortunately, that JQ do have a look at the applicant pool and know what quality they have in line and therefore have judged how much they can push this "charge for everything" bool****.

I have a JQ app in - I have 9000 total time, couple of thousand on both A330 and A320. Haven't heard a peep from them. Clearly I don't fall onto their "desirable" radar screen. Clearly they are not getting desperate. Clearly they are a long way off decorating fencelines.

And there is one more thing I would like to state clearly. I have no intention at all of taking a job with these vermin (and I do not mean any of the staff - pilots, CC, ground staff etc - I mean Joyce and his overpaid bunch of criminals). I just have an app in so as I can be one voice saying "No thank you, your fee of $10,000 for a couple of sim rides for the prurposes of Jetstar procedures training is way way way over the top for someone with Airbus experience. Two sim rides or so should not cost more than $1500 or so. $10,000 is just making money from your employees - not acceptable."


SHOULDHE - your arguments are ridiculous. "should a hospital pay a doctor to go to Uni?" is not a valid analogy. A pilot joining a major airline has done his "doctor's" training at his own expense - just like a doctor. He should now expect to be able to take his trade and be employed to earn a dollar, just like a doctor takes his trade to the hospital for remuneration. Stop trying to justify this sort of behaviour. Remember, airlines are employing pilots because THEY NEED THEM. If you refuse to pay for all this stuff they will still need pilots - only then will the trend reverse.

Rod

[Erin Brockovich]

Despite what you probably think, those in charge of airline recruiting are not idiotsUnfortunately for the shareholders ……..they are, but even they just follow doctrine laid out by the bigger idiots further up the food chain. The main problem in this company’s future is the utter lack of respect for its greatest asset – its employees.

The current low cost model does not have a long term future. Not with a looming labour shortage. Something has to give. If it’s not the company’s attitude towards its employees, then it will be the company itself. It will run out of options when other LCCs with deeper pockets start luring its undervalued workforce. Alan Joyce’s cries for help on TV for a commercially motivated pilot training solution are the first of many signs.

I think recruiting within the whole Qantas group is going to be in for a shock very soon. $15 application fee will be the least of their worries.

Rod, they probably lost your application, or red flagged it for having enough experience to know what your worth.

[rodney rude]

G'day Erin,

Not sure how one loses an electronic application, so i guess I must be red flagged.

You are right about the attitude of upper management towards its employees. Hopefully the world will turn and we will go back to the days of 1. employer respects and treats employees as a valuable asset, 2. employer feels respected and well treated and morale stays high, 3. high morale rubs off and happy front line staff treat customers well and provide great service 4. Customers love the service provided and come back for more 5. company's load factors go through roof and profits soar 6. Employer smiles as company is doing so well. Tells staff what a great job they are doing 7. start again at point 2.

Yeah I know - tell 'im 'es dreamin'. Now - where did my jousting sticks go!!

Rod

[Blue-Footed Boobie]

Eveytime this pay for your rating argument appears here you always get someone chipping in with 'so you think aviation owes you a living?'.. well fair enough it's a democratic world inside pprune.

Aviation may not owe you a living but have todays Fleet Managers, Chief Pilots, Ops Directors ever paid for a rating? One or two perhaps but on the whole I doubt it, protected final salary pensions, share options etc, all very nice.

So why does the new bloke/blokess who has shown dedication, made a substantial investment in their career to get licenced, perhaps done several years in the bush, be treated as yet another profit center and whose job it will be to fly the companies aircraft and the companies pax have to pay for the privilage??.. nothing more than short term greed sadly.

Aviation may not owe anyone a living (what profession does? actualy now I think about it anyone who puts their life at risk for others like firemen, soldiers deserve some free credit) but no pilot deserves to be blatantly abused in such a skilled profession as ours.

Blue Foot

[horserun]

Tell them to get F**ked!!!!!
And anyone else who will charge you to read your application!:yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:

[Jawz]

Crikey

Do any of you really think pilots will band together? NEVER.

I have a better idea.

Buy QANTAS shares.

[bushy]

Interesting.
A long time ago, the Cessna aircraft company and others were setting up sales agents and flying schools all over the world. In Australia the flying schools would tell all the wannabies about all the beaut flying jobs out there, and how the airlines were recruiting new hire people from GA. (they actually did hire a few most years, but for every one hired there were about 25 trained.) If flying training lagged a bit the schools got on to the media and told them about the looming pilot shortage that was coming.
(Sound familiar?)
Even the government was fooled, and gave big tax concessions for the purchasers of new aircraft. This coincided with major oil search activity and conditions boomed. For a while. New charter companies were everywhere, (no worries mate I'll teach you to fly it in a week, and we'll get you a charter licence too, so you can make some money with it.) and most of them lasted about three years. But they were replaced by more new aircraft purchasers (tax dodgers) and soon the country was flooded with near new aircraft.
Soon the market was flooded and a whole lot of people had aeroplanes they did not know what to do with. And the country had lots of maintenance facilities which could do maintenence on new, low time aeroplanes. Then the aeroplane makers stopped making light aircraft, as they said the insurance costs were too high.
There were lots of aeroplanes, lots of pilots (the airlines loved that) and, for a while, lots of work. There was an oversupply of pilots (CPL holders) but those who had jobs got free "employer sponsored" endorsements on the machines the operator wanted them to fly.
The aeroplane sales dried up when the major part of the oil search slowed down and then, a lot of the charter was replaced by small
RPT (scheduled) flights. And there were too many aeroplanes, and pilots, and not enough work.
The flying schools were training pilots who had nowhere to go, but were hoping to get airline jobs. (I never could figure out why a lot of intelligenent people would spend so much money on training without first researching the employment possibilities) Soon they were going thousands of kilometers away from home to fight for the few remaining available jobs to get the experience needed for airlines. And they had no intention to stay for long. And some of the flying schools set up charter companies out bush so they could sell ICUS to the wannabies while doing charter.
So pretty soon pilots were paying for endorsements, working for nothing or for an hourly rate which was not viable unless they got lots of work.
So what's happening today? Alteon and Boeing are saying there is an ongoing pilot shortage. Pilots are paying for endorsements
The MCPL is here (Alteon and Qantas will be able to get you the training required for one.)
??????????????????
I think I have seen something like this before. This time it's bigger bucks.

What happens in GA filters into the major airlines.

[gramps]

Why is J* charging a $15 admin fee so much different than QF for years charging a $195 psych skills testing fee?

[Peter Fanelli]

This is nothing new.
I seem to recall a company I applied to back in the late 80's charging a fee to keep you on file as well. Don't remember which now, might have been Hazelton's or Eastern or Murray Valley Airlines.

[dirka]

Funny story; A bloke I know posted a cheque to Impulse (Beech 1900 days) as they were charging the same fee a few years back, the cheque bounced and they weren't happy! I guess they had to pay the bank fees..... haha :hmm:

[cunninglinguist]

Gramps, jetstar charge that fee also, as well as sim fee, all up circa $450, and an ASIC fee which the sneaky :mad:s dont give back

[Shagtastic]

Gramps

QF may charge you for a pathetic invalid pysche test (which Qantas pilots have failed!!) but they don't charge you for a rating, not pay you until checked to line, and force one to pay other costs they should be coughing up for.

Maybe that's the difference?

Shags

[flying-spike]

Personally I think the fee has nothing to do with administration but is a test to see which applicants will willingly bend over. Just let them know pilots have had enough. Up with the prolitariat!

[Charliethewonderdog]

The ignorance of capitalist economics that is displayed in this thread is breathtaking. Your ignorance of the pilot shortage and the fact that pilots dont grow on tree's and experienced pilots have more than one option of employment these days is Incredible.

Hands up all those that hold shares in some company. Hands up to those who own shares in Airlines that DONT want their revenue making machines parked up against a wall because arogant mangement.

Now, of you shareholders, how many of you have no objection to your company not recovering those costs of doing business that are easily recoverable? .... and how many of you shareholders actually aplaud your company when it invests towards the future of the company, whether being new aircraft or experience staff.

This is the economic argument for the application fee. It is the exact same argument that applies to "charging for the endorsement". Very simple, and surely very simple to understand. Well the economics of a $15 application fee as apposed to a $29 dollar fair from Melb to Hobart. They Both aren't sustainable and guess which one was removed first.

The issue of whether to charge for such things, and how much to charge, is also governed by simple economics. Think "supply and demand" and things may start to make some sense. Yes YOU need to THINK "SUPPLY AND DEMAND", as evidence by Jetstar's big back flip.

Despite what you probably think, those in charge of airline recruiting are not idiots and are well aware of the effects of such charges. They know how many applicants they have, the quality of those applicants, and how many get all the way through the process. If it should become necessary to enlarge the pool of applicants, such "barriers" will be lowered accordingly. Can you explain to me why these Recruiters have now removed to $15 dollars????? I'm mean like you sxaid they are not Idiots, or are they?

By the way, it is not necessarily true that an airline will have a higher standard of pilot if they weren't to charge for such things.
This I agree, it's called " scraping the bottom of the barrel.:ugh::ugh:

[maui]

You are not dreaming Rod. Read the book "Nuts" by Kevin and Jackie Freiberg. ISBN 0-7679-0184-3. Available at Amazon.

A must read for idiots masquerading as managers.

Maui