CX or JQ, what wouldyou take?

[CXorJQ]

Hi, I have a hypothetical scenario I would like to post here for a friend seeking opinions directly relevant to the scenario given.

The scenario is as follows. The friend currently has two job offers commencing around the same time. 1. Cathay Pacific 747-400 S/O and 2. Jetstar A320 F/O.

He is unsure which to accept, they both have their obvious advantages and disadvantages but he would like to get feedback from the general aviation community on what they would do.

The way I see it is as follows;

Cathay
Pros
No endorsement costs
Ok money
Excellent fleet of aircraft
Cons
7-10yrs for cmd up grade
Living in HK (objective)
2-3yrs as an S/O

Jetstar
Pros
With the nature of the industry and airline rapid expansion, a relatively quick command could be on the cards (around 3 yrs – same time as CX S/O to F/O)
Ability to have lifestyle and live in Aus (objective)
Cons
Endorsement costs
Everything else that comes with a low cost carrier

Ok, now what would you do in his shoes?

[Mr. Hat]

CX

how many leave cx to go to jq? and vice versa?

[bullamakanka]

I am not sure if this is a wind up or not, but for the record, CX. No brainer for me anyway. But it depends what important to "your friend".

Bulla

[CXorJQ]

It’s not a wind up :ok:

[Howard Hughes]

CX, is this even a valid question?;)

[OBNO]

Too easy - Cathay.

[John Citizen]

Pornstar

Because :
- I want to live in Australia
- I don't want to fly long boring sectors, esp as a SO
- I want a quick command

[Defenestrator]

No offense meant to any JQ drivers but CX every day of the week.

D:ok:

[MelbPilot85]

Cathay. Do I see a trend?

[Going Boeing]

CX

If he wants to stay in OZ then wait a few months for QF mainline.

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

Easy choice. CX.

DM

[puff]

More questions...do you have kids and a wife that works? Have you spent some time in HK to see if you like it?

If your single and your primary aim is $$$ I reakon CX is your answer, otherwise the answer gets more difficult.

Both of them suit different people IMHO
JQ - Aus Basing, easy for partner to work, home nightly, schooling cheaper
CX- HK basing, harder for partner to work, lots of overnights, schooling V expensive

A lot of people that have spent 0 time in HK think everything is fine there, some people adapt well to it, some don't. We live in some of the least densly population parts of the world, parts in HK are the most densly populated areas in the world.

I've been there about 5 times, love it, to visit, I would never 'personally' want to live there. Check out the CX forums if you think it's a utopia any different to the problems faced by the operators in Oz. There are guys leaving CX to go back to the UK and the USA all the time, much the same as there are leaving EK as well.

Different strokes for different folks

[AnQrKa]

Have any of the pro CX posters here actually worked for CX or lived in HKG or more importantly worked for both CX and JQ and and therefore have a balanced view. Or is it all based on looking from the outside at the big green jet that visits oz each day?

CX aint what its cracked up to be.

[cunninglinguist]

CX, quick commands are long gone, here's why:

Last guy on at JQ was 420ish, last command in the low 200s.
So anyone who starts now needs 200 guys to get commands ( yes, there are 60-70 Q numbers in there, but my, are'nt they starting to flood over )
lets say 150-160 for arguments sake, at the moment, rumours aside there is 9 320s ( 45 commands ) and 15 787s ( 105 commands ), thats 150 commands give or take a few over the next 2-3 years.
Anything else is pure rumour and conjecture and I would advise against basing a career decision on them.
Add into the equation, X amount of DECs on the 787 ( depending on how many blue shirts are willing to come from Emirates ) and its not looking too good for a " quick " command.
Of course, its aviation, could all change tomorrow and have'nt taken into acct guys leaving.

[C.galerita]

John Citizen

As 'cunninglinguist' said ... commands long gone!

Go where (even with recent losses) you are paid well enough and treated with at least a smidgen of respect.

CX 4 sure!

[Howard Hughes]

I want
I don't want
I want
Kinda sums it up really...:rolleyes:

[Condition lever]

The very fact that you have joined PPRUNE in May of this year under a handle of CXorJQ shows this to be a wind up rather than a valid question.
If your mate isn't experienced enough to decide for himself, he doesn't deserve a job at either!

[kmagyoyo]

If you think 7-10 years for a wide body command at CX is a 'CON' then I guess you won't be applying to QF :ugh:

[distracted cockroach]

Depends where you want to live. Being in your own country with family and friends close-by is important for a lot of people. Not everyone wants to live in a foreign country as an ex-pat.
A lot depends on your attitude, age and ambition. Young bucks with the world at their feet and a life that revolves around the job...go CX.
If there's more to your life than the job, then maybe JQ would be more attractive.
Once you go to CX there's probably no coming back...once hooked into the system it's a big call to bail.
Good luck.

[wawoftam]

I turned down an interview with Cathay 8 1/2 yrs ago. To stay in OZ I have not regretted my descision for one second. But I have kids and a family. 10 acres 2 horses a happy wife and kids is pretty high on my list of priorities.

I love flying but I do this to be paid a wage to provide the lifestyle with which I can educate and bring up my kids in a safe environment Ask yourself. Where do you want to be in 10 years. The aircraft you will fly be it a dash 8, 737,747
will just be another bit of tin after a couple of years.
Good luck with your descision and hopefully it will be the right one
cheers

[liklikrokrok]

Go to CX:ok: for a couple of years and if its not your cup of tea try JQ:ok: for a LH seat slot...that would be the command decision:D..goodluck and remember you will never have the best of both worlds..I know I'll probably die trying:)

[hostile23]

Oh CX, CX, CX,CX,CX,CX....................my god do any of you have your own ideas. All I can say is BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA to all you CX wannabe sheep.

[The Messiah]

CX

With some aggressive and smart investing you can take a base in Oz after 5 years of seeing the world and have no mortgage.

[ALPHA STRIKE]

Absolutely CX!! Best decision i ever made. Financially & professionally rewarding. Politics aside, one of the best. How much do you have to pay to get ahead in your profession?! Commercial licence, frozen ATPL, cost of renewals because some employers wouldn't pay for them, along with endoresments pay,pay,pay!! Where does it end? Absolutely disgraceful!!Apparently all we want to do is fly(because we love what we do?!!!) and we don't care about pay, retirement benefits and time at home with our loved ones. All we want to do is strap a shiny new plastic fantastic on our backs and fly till we drop!! SHAME, SHAME to those that profit out of those that can't afford it!
I wish your friend all the best in his endeavours, although his money could be more wisely spent elsewhere. Beers are on me when I next fly with him!!

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

I say again. Cathay. I wouldn't recommend you sign up here with the new plans for all new hires to be on AWAs. Honestly!!.

DM

[Mr. Hat]

Guess thats your answers cx0rjq.

Seems fairly straight forward. CX treat people properly

[CXorJQ]

Ok, here is some more information on the “friend” as requested;

Male
Single
Late 20’s

[OBNO]

Still too easy - CX.

[cunninglinguist]

Wawoftam, all true what you say but I decided I don't wanna be flying when I'm 65, I don't like it THAT much.
Since I'm not one of these financial wiz's that turns a mediocre income into crap loads of money, no choice.
Under the Oz tax system the average wage earner is gauranteed not to get anywhere fast

[R.Cruizo]

I also favour CX, Mr Hat summed it up beutifully. CX treat you like a professional from day one.

J* and QF you still pay for the privilege of their interviews.


RC

[nike]

Your mate is prob in the best democraphic for the CX job. Chase tail down route, at work, days off in HK, days off outta HK, on holiday, back home, on holiday elsewhere. Cash is good. Not for everyone though, and the perks aren't free. Like you said, pros & cons.

[Red777]

After many years with CX...after upgrading from jrn F/O to F/O you can file for location transfer...all depends on seniority and wait list....

All the best...

[Wing Flex]

Answer is easy...... CX :ok:

J* and QF you still pay for the privilege of their interviews

So true.... plus both make you wait weeks, even months before you find out your result. :ugh: Although CX make you call them to find out the results (which some may think is wrong) at least you have a specific date.

I wish your mate the best of luck with his decision and outcome.

[MinimaNoContact]

I weighed it all up, I researched Jetstar after they called me to interview, and politely turned them down... not close to what I was after.

I researched CX after they called me, did stage 1 then went up to HK for a look prior to stage 2 to satisfy myself with the place.

For me and what I'm after, CX looks the goods. There will always be a large percentage of pilots unhappy with what they've got, where they are, etc... and will always complain about it... I've done my share of complaining, but it comes with the industry!

It all comes down to a personal choice, plain and simple. Listening the the whiners on pprune will get you nowhere fast.

[Veruka Salt]

. . .I've worked for Impulse, QF mainline and CX. I'd take CX any day.

[The Librarian]

I knocked back CX for Ansett quite a few years ago and at the time I was very happy with my decision, Ansett was always where I wanted to be.
If I had of taken the CX job I would have been a 400 skipper 3-4 years ago, now I find myself in the back seat of a 400 with the rat.
No regets though, I've got to spend my career so far in Australia, got to fly with one of the best airlines in the world and also with Qantas and every time I visit HKG I know I made the right decision because I cant wait to get out of the place.
But if your happy to work overseas
J* or CX.......take CX

[questions4you2007]

I cant believe anyone would have to ask this question. The ONLY reason anyone could justify taking a job with Jetstar would be if they couldnt get any other jet job in Aus and were just interested in working their proverbial asses off for pretty average money under very average conditions for a couple of years before saying "ciao!" and buggering off to Cathay, Dragon, Emirates or Etihad to earn some decent $$.

Jetstar is a job you only take if you cant get another job in Aus, AND you are interested in getting some experience to take overseas to get a decent job.

If thats not the reason, then maybe you are the sort of person that enjoys working for nothing - a bit like the GA punter who walks into your company and tells your boss he'll fly for free.

Take Skywest over JQ anyday!

[Shouldhe]

questions4you2007
"I cant believe anyone would have to ask this question. The ONLY reason anyone could justify taking a job with Jetstar would be if they couldnt get any other jet job in Aus and were just interested in working their proverbial asses off for pretty average money under very average conditions for a couple of years before saying "ciao!" and buggering off to Cathay, Dragon, Emirates or Etihad to earn some decent $$.
Jetstar is a job you only take if you cant get another job in Aus, AND you are interested in getting some experience to take overseas to get a decent job.
If thats not the reason, then maybe you are the sort of person that enjoys working for nothing - a bit like the GA punter who walks into your company and tells your boss he'll fly for free.
Take Skywest over JQ anyday"
Question4you. What a presumptuous post!
"The ONLY reason anyone could justify taking a job with Jetstar would be if they couldnt get any other jet job in Aus".
Let's have a look at a few reasons people might want a job wit J*
1. To live in the city of their choice.
2. To put lifestyle ahead of cash.
3. To be near family and friends.
4. To live near family and friends so their kids can grow up surrounded by those who love them.
5. Because an 'out and back' in a day profile, might allow you to see your family and friends more often.
6. Because they don't want to work for Q mainline and sit on their asses for god knows how many years as a second officer and do NOTHING.
7. Because working for mainline as a Second Officer (if you live ANYWHERE OTHER THAN SYD) means commuting.
8. Because commuting to SYD means extra cost (maybe $10,000 a year - Figures from a number of commuters I know).
9. Because commuting to SYD leaves less time at home.
10. Because some people might not want to go away for 14 days at a time.
11. Because as a commuter you do not get the benefits that a SYD residing Q pilot gets (car park at the airport/ taxi to from work).
12. Because you might actually like working, flying 4-5 sectors a day doesn't phase you.
13. Because even though the pay is less - you might actually have other income, so the money is not a factor.
14. Because you might not want to live in the SAND or the SMOG.
By the way, what does work your asses off mean? Last time I looked J* can't work you any more hours than ANY OTHER airline governed the LEGISLATION. For a long haul pilot who does one take off and landing in a fifteen-hour day, five sectors might be "working your ass off" but for a charter/joy flight pilot, it might be a joyous break.
The amount of bashing that goes on here in Pprune is amazing. It always ends in insults to whoever mentions the dreaded J*…… Why can't people give facts, hold the insults and realise that every one has different priorities in life? What suits them might not suit you. Their life is their life - let them live it.
P.S. I am at the same stage with Q, J* and CX. My preference is for J*.
P.P.S. Ever heard of an apostrophe?

[Track Direct]

Have to agree with TM in post#23............. therefore CX :ok:

[questions4you2007]

Shouldhe, nice post. Sorry for my slow reply, but here it is:

Ok granted, some of the reasons you give for someone taking a job with Jetstar are valid. But lets be honest with each other here - Jetstar is the worst jet airline job in the country (yes that is my opinion, and if you disagree we will have to agree to disagree).

"1. To live in the city of their choice.
3. To be near family and friends.
4. To live near family and friends so their kids can grow up surrounded by those who love them.
5. Because an 'out and back' in a day profile, might allow you to see your family and friends more often. "

Ok maybe, but if you want to live in Sydney, Brisbane or Perth there are definitely better choices.

To put lifestyle ahead of cash? Absolutely not! A QF S/O can expect to earn anywhere between 35K - 70K MORE than a JQ FO. A Virgin FO can expect to earn between 25K - 40K more than a JQ FO. A skywest FO is on similar money to a JQ FO. A QF FO makes anywhere between 45K - 165K MORE than a JQ FO. Every one of these jobs offer a significantly better lifestyle than the JQ FO enjoys. I dont know about you, but I think more time off at home = better lifestyle. JQ finishes last by this measure.

"Because they don't want to work for Q mainline and sit on their asses for god knows how many years as a second officer and do NOTHING"

Ok. But if you want to jump straight into the right seat why not fly for Virgin, Skywest, Dragon or Emirates? As per my original post, I say because you didnt get any other job. (and no im not bashing guys and girls that work for JQ - I have mates that work for them that are great people and good pilots. I just think they should be paid more and work under better conditions of employment)

"7. Because working for mainline as a Second Officer (if you live ANYWHERE OTHER THAN SYD) means commuting.
8. Because commuting to SYD means extra cost (maybe $10,000 a year - Figures from a number of commuters I know).
9. Because commuting to SYD leaves less time at home."

A few words about commuting as a QF Second Officer. Yes if you live outside Sydney you will be commuting. 10K is definitely at the upper end of numbers i have heard for cost. But depending on how you bid for trips, and which aircraft type you are on, you can actually go for months and months without having to fork out ANY money of your own to pay for your commuting (if you bid for pax first sector, or pax last sector trips). But even so, I would prefer to earn alot more money and spend some on commuting, then to earn a pittance. Regarding having less time at home as a result, again, alot of people that do it end up with at least as much time at home, and sometimes MORE time at home, depending on how they bid. If you live in Adelaide, bid for trips that go through there and have a night or 2 at home on the company.

"Because some people might not want to go away for 14 days at a time."

Fly for Virgin then! Much better pay and conditions than JQ.

"Because you might actually like working, flying 4-5 sectors a day doesn't phase you.
13. Because even though the pay is less - you might actually have other income, so the money is not a factor.
14. Because you might not want to live in the SAND or the SMOG."

If you like working, why not fly for a mob that pay more for your time? Such places to work are QF, Virgin, CX and EK.

If you have other income, wouldnt you prefer to have more time at home to look after the other business? I sure would! Places that offer more time at home than JQ are QF and Virgin.

If you dont want to live in the sand or the smog, why not fly for an airline that offers the best money and lifestlye in Australia? Such places would be QF, Virgin and Skywest in my opinion.

"The amount of bashing that goes on here in Pprune is amazing. It always ends in insults to whoever mentions the dreaded J*…… Why can't people give facts, hold the insults and realise that every one has different priorities in life? What suits them might not suit you. Their life is their life - let them live it.
P.S. I am at the same stage with Q, J* and CX. My preference is for J*.
P.P.S. Ever heard of an apostrophe?"

Im not a JQ basher, and i know everyone is at different stages and have different priorities. The fact is JQ drivers should earn more, and enjoy conditions that are better. That is my line. The company and senior execs are screwing pilots for their own benefit and it is sick.

Joyce doesnt care about his drivers. Infact, like his cabin crew he doesnt care if he has a high turnover of pilots. 'Work them hard, pay them nothing until they cant put up with it any longer and quit. Then we'll get another bloke in to do the job'. That is his attitude.

If you really are at the same stage of recruitment with all 3 carriers as you say, i cannot endorse CX or QF highly enough over JQ. I have enough mates in each to know a good deal from a bad deal. And please do yourself a favour and say a polite 'no thanks' to JQ.

No i dont like to use apostrophes because it lets you write something in your posts that i cannot rebut. You need to have some strengths in your arguement! JQ being a decent job is not one of them however.

[Shouldhe]

QUOTE
No i dont like to use apostrophes because it lets you write something in your posts that i cannot rebut. You need to have some strengths in your arguement! JQ being a decent job is not one of them however
QUOTE
:D

[The Kavorka]

Question4you2007,

How much do you think JQ FO's get paid.......$1.50 a day..:ugh:

Mate you need to get your facts right before you sprout your obviously ignorant mouth off..:mad::mad:

Most JQ FO's are making $100000 a year with as many as 16 days off a month...FACT!!!!!!!!!!!! more than a lot of QF S/O's....

Last time I spoke a virgin FO they were making prety much the same if not a lilltle more!!!!!

I'm not sure what the Skywest guys get paid, but I'll bet it's not close to this....

I take your a frustrated with the expansion of JQ pushing your time to command back a hell of a long way.....deal with I say..

If people want to have a lifestyle over money it's their choice, I wouldn't want to bring my family up in HK for all the tea in China!!!

[questions4you2007]

The Kavorka,

Why so angry mate? There is no need for name calling or insults here.

If MOST JQ FO's are making 100K and only work 14 days a month (as you say), then my mates there are getting shafted! My mates are working more like 3 weeks of the month for around 80K.

Even if JQ FO's are making 100K per year, that still leaves them 25K - 140K behind their brothers in mainline.

That still means they get paid less than Virgin FO's and work considerably harder for their money.

That still puts them 10K - 45K behind a QF second officer who gets more days at home. Infact the only QF SO's that they will earn more than are the ones that are on the training wage.

Ok Skywest FO's dont make 100K, but they have a much better life. More time off, and easier days at work.

From the tone of your post i take it you either fly for JQ, or you are a manager pretending to fly for JQ. Either way, as i said before, im not a JQ basher - i just want to see their rates of pay go up.

If you disagree with that ill assume you arent really a pilot.

If you want to insult me or call names i wont reply, but if you want to have a sensible debate i will be here.

[The Kavorka]

Q4Y,

So your telling me that there are 737 fo's on $200000+, mate your dreaming..

I think you have spent to much time on your long trips JQ bashing and have been fed a lot of crap!!!

Saying VB and Skywest pilots have a better lifestyle, mate you have no idea. Have you spoken to a VB pilot, there is a lot of them very unhappy, look at other posts on this forum...

I have many friends at the RAT, non of whom are making anywhere near the coin you touting....

I can tell you it's a great lifestyle at JQ, working 15-18 days a month max, home every night to spend with my family and making around $1500-1700 per week...yes thats right...not the crap you are going on with...

Have you read other posts on this forum??? I recently read one saying that a lot of QF S/O's would be lucky to make $100000....and I have mates that are S/O's who confirm this..

P.S...how was your last landing!!!! mine was great!!!!!:mad:

[swh]

The Kavorka,

JQ FO (320) about 82,000 plus nothing
QF FO (737) about 84,000 plus hourly pay above 55 hrs (84000/660) per hr
QF SO (744) $61/hr for fist 6 months (not including PUIT), QF SO on 744 year 5 earns the same base hourly rate as a JQ FO.
VB FO (737) about $84,000 plus $10,000 retention bonus
CX DEFO SYD/MEL/ADL base $135,000 plus Oz Tax
CX SO wage HK base about HKD$380,000 plus HKD$14,000-26,000 housing allowance, take payable is very little.

A year 1 QF SO will have a higher priority than a 10 year JQ capt on staff travel.

As for choice, if you had one it would be CX, but with your attitude on here ....

:O

[Shouldhe]

Q FO (320) about 82,000 plus nothing
Actually wrong. About $85,000 plus $109ish per hour every hour over 75. (from memory). Someone did post the agreement a little while ago. These figures are for an A320 FO.
:)



Kavorka. Doesn't seem you take PM's. Would like to PM you for a chat. Any chance you could enable PM?

[swh]

From the 2005 JQ agreement

Para 27.1.3 FO paid at 60% of captains wage

From table 1, narrow body captain wage between 1 Aug 2006 to 31 July 2007 is $136,860, 60% of that is $82,116.

Yes you can get $82,116/850 per hour above an average corrected of 75 hrs schedule time, but as the calculations are based upon SCHEDULE not time actually flown, the best you could do by schedule is 50 hrs per year if you fly schedule, if the flight time exceeds schedule time, they get closer to the 900 hrs a year which means zip in their pocket.

To earn $100,000 as claimed above, JQ would have to schedule the FOs to fly 1035 hours a year, last time I looked, CASA did not allow JQ to do that.:=
:eek::sad:

[The Kavorka]

SWH,

You are wrong my friend.....another ill informed skygod I think..

Here are the facts.....

Base $82166 which equals $6847 per month plus $100 per hour after 75 hours....

Most guys are doing around 90 per month which equals $1500 extra, some doing 100, $2500 extra

I think you can do the maths from there....

Next time get your facts right!!!!!:mad:

[adam210]

The Kavorka, do you work for J*, if so , do you know anything about impending AWAs' T's and C's or basing choices, esp domestic.

Pm me if you prefer.

Adam

[swh]

The Kavorka,

I did check my facts with the copy of the Jetstar agreement held at the AFAP, hence I posted $82,116 p.a.. Can I remind you that you claimed "Most JQ FO's are making $100000 a year with as many as 16 days off a month...FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!", which one is correct ?

I might add, the CX FO rate for a guy in Australia is almost equivilant to the narrow body captains wage a Jetstar, Jetstar FOs are basically getting paid 60% of what a Cathay FO earns.

The Jetstar certified agreement does not give pilots 16 days off a month as you claim.

You cannot do 90hrs a month every calendar month, give a hint why, 90x12 = 1080 hrs...(hence what are the 7, 28, and 365 days rolling CASA limits ???) the best you can sustain in terms if "extra flying allowance" is 50 hrs in a rolling 12 month average of SCHEDULE time, and since you don’t get credit for flying less than schedule time, and any time over schedule time gets taken out of your 900 a year... you have a VERY limited scope ($4,830.50 is the yearly maximum on a sustained basis).

The "extra flying allowance" is currently annual salary/850, refer to 27.3.2 of your certified agreement, which is $96.61 per SCHEDULE hour (not time flown, a couple of holds, and long taxis a month you end up working for free), Can I remind you that you claimed "$100 per hour after 75 hours", which one is correct ?

You also failed to take into account the initial training of $33,000 which you have to pay, nor the command upgrade cost of $15,000, both of which are part of your certified agreement.

"I think you can do the maths from there...."

Umm, I did my reading and maths a some time ago...that I why I work for a company that does not bond me, I don’t have to pay for endorsements, I get paid based up the greater of schedule or actual, I get more time off than you, on a bad day I have to do more than one sector, pay less tax, have better staff benefits, decent crew meals and drinks, uniforms cleaned and ironed, a retirement fund that gets 25% of my salary in terms of contributions, full medical coverage worldwide, and F, J, and Y travel anywhere in the world.

I know which lifestyle is be sustained long term, and its not the life of a low cost airline pilot....

If this is how good your maths skills are, you could not calculate a descent profile to save yourself.

"Next time get your facts right!!!!!"

Unless the agreement held at the AFAP is incorrect and not current, I think that comment is a case of "hello pot I am kettle"...how long have you been with J* ?

Are you the Jetstar captain with just 500 hrs on a Partenavia and SFA total time telling the experienced FOs (you know the ones I mean, they had significant command time on jets prior to J*) how to do maths ??...some of the stories of that bloke are being laughed at bars all over the world....absolute tosser ...:ugh::ugh:

[questions4you2007]

SWH, thanks for the support with dealing with this lunatic.

Kavorka:

QF B744 FO's make 225K - 240K. Hence my quote of 125K - 240K.

Maybe you are right that some DJ guys are unhappy, but i can promise you that after the gloss of flying a jet has worn off (12 - 24 months i'd say) you and your mates will be much more unhappy than any other pilot group in the country. "Why dont we get paid as much as them?", "why do we work more than them?", "Why do i have to have my days off overseas and never get to see my family?" (if you are on the A330)

If you think the JQ lifestyle is great you are obviously the IQ equivalent of a sultana. You might aswell go back to GA if that is what you think. Airline jobs are supposed to be well paid and provide an easy lifestyle! JQ does neither.

QF second officers once checked to line will make around 85K. After 18 months online they will make 110K - 150K.

I can see why you didnt get into CX, QF, DJ, EK or anywhere else. Its because you are angry and insane.

[Hugh Gorgen]

Please allow me to divert this post slightly.

If given the option, who would you opt for - QF (SO) or CX (DEFO - Aus basing).

[Chilli Tarts]

CX DEFO (AU) no brainer :ok:

[The Kavorka]

Q4Y, SWH

Sounds like you were on the same cadet course together....

It does not cost JQ pilots anything to upgrade to command....(wrong again :mad:wit!!!!)

Jq pilots can fly 1000 hours a year....(wrong again :mad:wit!!!)

Most guys flying in my base around 6-7 hrs a day, and when I times that by 15 it equals 90+ (wrong again :mad:wit) Therefore earning an extra 1500-2500 a month for 10 months of the year...and guess that is around $100000

Rostered for 10 rdo's a month plus days free of duty, usually around 2-3, (see above!!!!:mad:)

You can say what you like about JQ pilots, most are very happy...home every night, great family life and guess what, I can pay my bills.

You compare JQ FO's to 74 FO's....it takes years at QF to get a spot on the 74 as an FO, so compare apples with apples...we are not QF pilots..
JQ is a LCC with lower cost base with lower wages across the board, in time pilots wages will rise along with the looming pilot shortage, and by then I'll be a Captain and you two will be still putting the Captain charts away whilst saying "what else can I do for you CAPTAIN!!!)

I knocked back at job at QF recently because I don't want to sit in the back seat for the next 5+ years..my choice, yes some QF SO's get paid more..but it's not always about that....I don't need a silver spoon in my mouth.

You two continually post absolute crap, you may have read the EBA, but by looking at your maths skills I don't need to ask how you came up with JQ pilots needing to pay for upgrades...

Maybe when Daddy paid for the Cadet course he should have enrolled you in extra maths and english lessons.....:ugh::ugh:

Back to the subject, if people want to fly for JQ, QF, CX or VB, good on them.....Each job has it's good and bad points and people will choose what suits them...

Until you get your facts right don't bother slandering things you absolutley know nothing about.

I'm doing what I love to do and that's all that matters to me....

[an3_bolt]

Remember, the strength flows from the Force. But beware. Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side are they. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.

[airamerica]

Each to their own me recons.Individual circumstances.

Instead,this thread has turned into is a ''who's gotta the biggest longest.....''

[swh]

"Sounds like you were on the same cadet course together...."

Not me, I did years in GA, and I don’t work for QF.

"It does not cost JQ pilots anything to upgrade to command....(wrong again wit!!!!)"

Refer to page 43 of your certified agreement, "Command upgrade on a previously endorsed aircraft $15,000", it is the line below $33,000 for the initial rating.

"Jq pilots can fly 1000 hours a year....(wrong again wit!!!)"

That is not part of the JQ certified agreement, and I might add that a CAO 48 exemption is not listed with CASA for Jetstar.(http://www.casa.gov.au/rules/exempt/index.htm)

"Most guys flying in my base around 6-7 hrs a day, and when I times that by 15 it equals 90+ (wrong again wit) Therefore earning an extra 1500-2500 a month for 10 months of the year...and guess that is around $100000"

It is not the amount you fly, it is what you are schedule to fly. The JQ certified agreement does not have you working only 10 months a year. If you do more than 75 hrs a month this year, it means next year you will be restricted, as I clearly said in my post, “sustained”.

"Rostered for 10 rdo's a month plus days free of duty, usually around 2-3, (see above!!!!)"

That is not part of the JQ certified agreement. JQ pilots under their agreement only get 9 days off at your home base in 6 roster periods, and 10 days off in 6 roster periods, so in 6 roster periods 19 days off, of which half at your home base, that is in your agreement para 25.1.3.

"You can say what you like about JQ pilots, most are very happy...home every night, great family life and guess what, I can pay my bills."

Are they ? why are so many leaving ?

"You compare JQ FO's to 74 FO's....it takes years at QF to get a spot on the 74 as an FO, so compare apples with apples...we are not QF pilots.."

May I ask when I made such a comparison ?

"I knocked back at job at QF recently because I don't want to sit in the back seat for the next 5+ years..my choice, yes some QF SO's get paid more..but it's not always about that....I don't need a silver spoon in my mouth."

You just said a few posts up that you are being paid more than a QF SO.

"JQ is a LCC with lower cost base with lower wages across the board, in time pilots wages will rise along with the looming pilot shortage, and by then I'll be a Captain and you two will be still putting the Captain charts away whilst saying "what else can I do for you CAPTAIN!!!)"

You have no idea what I do, or who I work for. I have worked most areas in GA from instructing, freight, charter, aeromedical…before I did airline flying.

"You two continually post absolute crap, you may have read the EBA, but by looking at your maths skills I don't need to ask how you came up with JQ pilots needing to pay for upgrades..."

Have I ? I have read the JQ certified agreement, and I have made reference to it, the person who seems unaware of its actual contents is you.

"Maybe when Daddy paid for the Cadet course he should have enrolled you in extra maths and english lessons....."

I was not a cadet...

"Until you get your facts right don't bother slandering things you absolutley know nothing about."

Use words that you know the meaning of...and learn to spell.

[The Kavorka]

SWH...

Learn to spell!!!!!Look at you :mad:head "FAVOR", no such word, it's favour!!!!!!!!!! You :mad: w$#@%r!!!

The last 6 months I have made 8500-9500 gross per month...., I should know I can read my payslip, you really have no idea and you constant rant is moronic..

Give it a rest and go back to the hole you climbed out of!!!!

[The Kavorka]

SWH,

Since you like quoting the JQ EBA, I refer you to section 3.8.2 in
Schedule 1, and can you please tell everyone what this says!!!!

Ah yes looks like I was right again...surprise, surprise!!!!!:O:O:O

[QFinsider]

The title of Skygod doesn't fit well with most of us, who financed our flying(ourselves) , went through GA in some cases a lot longer than ideal and tried to meet a recruitment standard. However we did it, we did it. I for one applaud anyone who has the temerity to go through GA and get to the door of mainline Qantas to apply. For whatever reason most of us that pass through the door do view it as an achievement. Everyone will get to where they are supposed to be!

As for J* good luck to the pilots, I suspect the advent of AWA and direct entry Captains for the 787 will have a rather large impact on the benefits of working at J*.

Then again most of us at Q who aren't part of the "silk worm brigade" know what it is like to be undermined from within.

[swh]

"The last 6 months I have made 8500-9500 gross per month...., I should know I can read my payslip, you really have no idea and you constant rant is moronic.."

How many hours have you flown and how many schedule hours have you had ?

Does that include allowances ?

What is the breakdown ?

"Give it a rest and go back to the hole you climbed out of!!!!"

Having to resort to personal attacks every post does not say much about the ability of the individual to have an intelligent discussion.

"Since you like quoting the JQ EBA, I refer you to section 3.8.2 in Schedule 1, and can you please tell everyone what this says!!!!"

The Jetstar certified agreement does not have a para 3.8.2 or a schedule 1.

[allthecoolnamesarego]

This is getting good....

:D:D:D:D

[G Cantstandya]

SWH

3.2.8 on the JQ eba says "pilots can fly 1000hrs a year...It is at the end of the agreement under shedule 1

Most guys I know at JQ are making the money TK mentioned.....

[G Cantstandya]

I agree.......J* guys and gals can fly 1000 hrs a year, I did 940 last year and made $102,000 including very few allowances....
Plenty of o/t though
The continued JQ smashing is really quite boring...
Doesn't qantas have other companys with rat on the tail like Jitconnect and Nat Jet that get paid less than J* pilots...

[The Mufti]

All the numbers TK has mentioned are correct.....

I have recently spoken to a bunch of JQ guys and they seemed quite happy, although a little pissed off with mangement over this awa stuff.....

Vote 1 K.Rudd in oct and hopefully he will sort them out!!!:ok:

[QFinsider]

So despite being good company boys external captains are sought to circumvent the certified agreement, looks like the time in the sun is over. :E

I reckon CX by the proverbial country mile...

[Crusty Demon]

How many Cathay pilots are leaving for JQ? Not many I bet.

[404 Titan]

Crusty Demon

I know of one. He only went there because his magic age came up and he had to retire. If you aren’t a C & T and offered an extension on “B” scale, retirement age at CX is 55.

[swh]

"3.2.8 on the JQ eba says "pilots can fly 1000hrs a year...It is at the end of the agreement under shedule 1"

http://www.afap.org.au/files/02PQL1OAKD/Jetstar%20Agreement%202005.pdf

Which page ?

[aulglarse]

Q4y2007, you must still be in GA! You are a pilot whom thinks that money equals success...let me tell you now that the negative is you will only arrive at your expensive problems/mistakes in style!
SWH , Kavorka is just pissed off with Q4y2007's very somewhat debatable comments...I don't blame him/her for getting wound-up.
These JQ people whom you think they are wrong for what-20k a year??? 14 days off a month and doing max hours IS piss easy with a financial reward...how you compare a 74 f/o to an A320 f/o who are on a totally different scale!
You may not be happy wherever you go because of MONEY. Ask a NJS B717 driver forced to take a 10% pay cut (vs J*)how they feel about management! Somehow you will blame J* for that too.
I think you need to understand that no more than 4 people have left in the last 2 months=BIG DEAL!! (try mainline and/or VB)
Your perception on money will change when the company you end-up working for treat you like crap...(try mainline, JQ and/or VB)
We all want more and yet deserve more...18 months time we may see a change..
Now, where's that herbal tea(highly recommend SLEEPYTIME for those on earlies)

[swh]

aulglarse,
I agree with your sentiments, money does not buy happiness, nor does doing more sectors a day, nor does doing more hours a day.

I don't see JQ treating their people any better than VB (tech or cabin crew), and I think the honeymoon will end as you predict in about 18 months when commands dry up, and Tiger forces the rostering to get even tighter to save a dollar. The AFAP have already made representation to the JPC on the request of its members because of arduous rostering practices at JQ, and the real concerns of not being able to drive home safely as they claim to be fatigued.

I also think the tide will start turning in a few months when Tiger enter the field offering more cash than VB and JQ.

In any case, more pilots from VB, JQ, QF are moving to overseas carries as they realise the short sighted attitudes like we have seen displayed in this thread has put a ceiling on what they can earn in Australia, people are not worried about what they are going to feed the family with next week, just what is going to feed them when the get to retirement, that is, if they ever make retirement.