Flight /Duty time limits

[fokkerjet]

What kind of duty regulations do you have at your company? Here in the US, we operate under FAR Part 91 which has no limits, but the company I fly for has set limits for us and we are now updating our policy to better suit the type of aircraft (and trips) we fly.

Here is our current policy:

Departure times between 0700 - 1659 local time: 11hrs flight and 14hrs duty. If we have a third pilot onboard, 14 flight and 18 duty.

Departure times between 1700 - 0659 local time: 9hrs flight and 12hrs duty. If we have a third pilot onboard, 12 flight and 16 duty.

Crew rest for domestic flights, 12hrs from block in. Duty starts 1hr before scheduled departure time and ends 1/2hr after block in.
On international flights, 24hrs rest after block in. (We used to have a 30hr rest period if we flew over 9hrs but that's since been dropped) Our duty starts 11/2hr prior to scheduled departure and it ends 1hr after block in. We also receive 24hrs off prior to the start of an international flight and receive 1 day off for each 3 days worked, maximum of 3 days off, when we return home.

We also have scheduled weekends off. We normally are scheduled for one 2-day weekend off followed two weeks later for one 4-day weekend off (a Thursday thru Sunday or a Saturday thru Tuesday), alternating between the two throughout the year. This time off is known to us in November for the next year. Vacation days (after 8 years, I have 15 days plus the weekends prior to and after)and holidays are not included in our scheduled days off, they are in addition to.

In the future, it looks like our rest times internationally will be reduced to 16 hours and our flight time increased to 12 hours without a third pilot. The 1700 - 0659 flight/duty restrictions will be removed.

What's yours look like?


[This message has been edited by fokkerjet (edited 21 April 2001).]

[411A]

FOKKERJET--
Looks like your company is turning the screws a bit. Would suggest that the 24 hrs rest after international flights be retained. We are to purchase a Lockheed JetStar shortly and will look to give maximum rest where possible. The CEO, COO and DirOps of our new airline (L1011 acft) will be the JetStar pilots so our interest is selfserving. I cannot understand why some operators want to work their crews to exhaustion, especially international flights

[StressFree]

Fokkerjet,
We've just had our duty day increased to 14 hours with no limit on start times or number of sectors. In theory you could be given an 0200 report and then fly 20 short sectors and get off duty at 1600. We were supposed to be compliant with JAR Ops.1 limits but these new rules came in with no consultation with the flight crew and are not OK under JAR Ops1! So where do we go from here? Our mininum rest is 10 hours for pilots and 9 hours for cabin staff. I think the trend here is to move towards commonality with your FAA rules even if this means a change to putting our planes on the 'N'registration.
Interesting times ahead.
Best regards.

:)

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'Keep the Stress Down'

[737-NG First Officer]

Is it true that Ford at STN are to have "Spirit of JAR OPS" painted in italics just under the captains window of their BBJ's

[fokkerjet]

411A.

I think this is a "catch -22". In our operation, the bossman wants minimum time on the ground to do his business and with our current rules, he sits and waits for us to be "rested" before we depart for home. I don't disagree with him waiting but I'm not really sure if I'm really rested by waiting the full 24 hours.

The Flight Safety Foundation issued a report on a study they did on crew rest that you may find interesting. www.flightsafety.org/fsd/fsd_fed97.pdf (http://www.flightsafety.org/fsd/fsd_fed97.pdf)
Basically it said that 16 hours of rest was plenty as long as the crew is allowed 8 hours of sleep time (plus time to eat and wind down and travel to/from hotel). I basically agree with the idea, looking back on some of my past trips.

Using a Japan trip as an example: For duty reasons, we preposition a crew to Anchorage inorder for the passengers to fly from home to Japan in one sitting. A fuel stop is required at Anchorage so that's where we do the crew change and the second crew has had 24+ hours at Anchorage when the aircraft arrives. This second crew flys to Japan ( about an 8 hour flight), lands and goes to the hotel. 24 hours later, the crew departs Japan and lands back at home 12 hours later.
This sounds easy but really I'm probably more tired having had 24 hours off verses 16. When we landed in Japan it's evening, so when we get to the hotel it's dinner and to bed. 8 - 10 hours later I'm awake and rested. By the time we depart for the airport, I've been awake for maybe 8 - 10 hours. We fly 12 hours home and when we land, I've been up maybe 20 -24 hours. If I had 16 hours off duty, when we land back at home, I would have been awake 12 - 16 hours. Now I'm still tired but which one is a better tired?????????

StressFree,

I hear what you're saying. The "other boss" wants us to work under the same rules so we can team up when it's required. It's our version of "The Star Alliance" or "One World". I think when the fleet is common we will be flying together which might be a pretty good idea. I know it's easlier for you to "dumb down" to a FAA ATP then for us to "sharpen up" for an ATPL.

Our version of the Policy and Procedure manual limits us to 6 legs per duty day. We have not been scheduled, to my knowledge, over that since I've been with the "Company". When we do the 6 legs, it's on the schedules and it's a 14 hour duty day.

By the way, my personal email has been down for several weeks. I've been running Windows ME and it crashes my PC.

[xyz_pilot]

fokkerjet
Most of the info I have seen is that 24 hours off if you have had a big time zone change is about as bad as it can get. From what I have seen the best idea is to wind down/eat then sleep for 8 hours. This should be easy what ever local/body time it is as you will be tired. Then star duty asap, if the down time goes much over 15 hours you are into a second sleep cycle which will be more difficult as you will be less tired.

The key is to get lots or rest when you get back to your "home" time zone if you do short trips with big time changes. This rest is worth more than rest down route.

All told a difficult area.

[This message has been edited by xyz_pilot (edited 22 April 2001).]

[StressFree]

Fokkerjet,
'When the fleet is common' - does this mean we are getting G V's or are you getting a 125? In this business we all need a good sense of humour - have there been some developments? We welcome the opportunity to work more closely together and share our resources, bring it on!
Are you coming over here soon, we are overdue to have a beer!
Best regards

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'Keep the Stress Down'

[fokkerjet]

xyz_pilot,

I agree with you. Nothing worst than sitting around all day, unable to sleep anymore and then fly 12 hours.

Stress.
Our 1 year stop of purchases is over in August. Let the buying begin :) I picture something between with a nice cabin, great domestic payload but range to visit the "old country" ;) when one or two need to go.
By the way, on a scale of 1 to 10, where does Bodingtons and John Smith rank? Am I drinking English Budwiser http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif

[StressFree]

Fokkerjet,
Surely youre not drinking Boddingtons and John Smiths!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Of the two Boddingtons is the best - forget Smiths. Either way they are both pants (or in the US underpants). This sort of beer is an imitation.
When you come over here we will show you real beer - Greene King from Suffolk.
When I was in SEA I tried Bud Light, without question this was the worst ever. I've spent a fair amount of time in Africa but NEVER have been served such sh*t!!!!!!!!!!!!
See you soon.

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif



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'Keep the Stress Down'