Tedious

[StressFree]

Like Lavdumper's thread I'm a bit bored with the current topics so there is an urgent requirement for new material. So, who's got something to say? I'll start - I've spent a lot of time at various Flt. Safety centres in the last year, some good, some appalling!
Anyone else had the same experience? Also is it a pre-requisite for a job at the CAA to have a really bad attitude?
Hard hat deployed.

:) :) ;) http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

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'Keep the stress down'

[This message has been edited by StressFree (edited 14 January 2001).]

[nelly1066]

i cant remember a Flt Safety refresher or initial being much cop unless they are involved with another major company eg Boeing
life is full of such great weeks that flt safety can bring
i think we should discuss the ability of managers and the right to commmand ????
and the right to bellends

[fokkerjet]

StressFree,

Just went through GV Initial at FlightSafety, and I have to say it was the best class I have ever gone through at FSI, the Fokker was a very close second. I can't say the same for other FSI classes, they are hit and miss and have been for many years. The Falcon program was an embarrassment as far as I'm concern. The Falcon 900 manual was for the 900A, never being updated for the -B, and the -EX was full of errors.

Our version of the CAA, the FAA, still bring fear when they come around, but the FAA Inspector's I've dealt with have always been very professional

StressFree and nelly1066, should you'all be out in your new "ride" :)

[This message has been edited by fokkerjet (edited 14 January 2001).]

[con-pilot]

First off let me say I am a big believer in simulator training. Flight Safety has the best and most simulators in the world for corporate aviation and now airline.

However, I am ,as I am typing this, currently in Dallas Texas at the new Flight Safety facility on DFW for the Falcon 900EX. I have just completed the one week systems course yesterday. To be honest, I really feel I didn't learn near enough. But I am an old fart and am use to the old type schools where you had to draw systems by hand and know every temperture that turned on a light or automatically shut a valve. By the way, the hardest school I ever went to was the Flight Engineer school for the B72 at the DalFort (Braniff) school at DFW.

Now back to the subject at hand. The Falcon 900EX books are poorly written and full of errors, as a matter of fact we were told NOT to read the chapter on air-conditioning, because of all the errors. The theme we were told over and over again was, "Works good, lasts a long time." The systems instructor, who was a nice guy, did not know the airplane at all and although he had a type rating, had never flown the airplane. He had just had come from the Lear Jet school.

Now while part of me was happy I didn't have to know a lot temperatures and did not have to be able to draw the fuel system, another part of me wanted to know more about the airplane.

I realise that the Falcon 900EX is a nearly total automated airplane and there is not a lot a pilot can do about system problems inflight. Still, there needs to be a happy medium.

I'll let everybody know how the school goes this week. Stay tuned.

[This message has been edited by con-pilot (edited 15 January 2001).]

[StressFree]

Nelly1066,
Interesting post! I'll pass it on to the relevant place, ie. the office at the far end!!!!! Ho, Ho, Ho.
It seems that everyone is getting the same inconsistency from Flt Safety, any others care to comment?
Fokkerjet, I am off on a decent ride tomorrow, I'll let you know how it goes.

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

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'Keep the stress down'

[Flanker]

As a recent visitor to a Flight Safety establishment in the States I was not overly impressed.I think the problem is indeed the fact that the instructors are sorely lacking in hard RELEVANT experience.
Most of the guys have a military background and are obviously capable people, but I would like to be taught by someone who has really flown the type, or at least the class of aircraft I am trying to learn.(a bit more than 3 hours).
One thing that really peed me off is this idea that rejecting beyond V1 is given serious consideration for the likes of an engine fire.I am not saying you would NEVER reject beyond V1, you may not have a choice, but to push this view as a more normal option is not the way I do business.(Expressed both during initial and refresher)
The type is Lear by the way.
A five minute tirade against the Airbus 320 had me biting my tongue too.The guy(civvy) has hardly even seen a frickin 320, never mind flown one.I have only a few hundred hours on the type but enough to know what utter cr*p he was talking.( And yes I have flown Boeing, I like them both).
The facts are that the shortage of pilots in the US is leading people up the tree into jobs that were out of reach a few years ago, the training establishments are suffering as a consequence.

[Check 6]

Interesting comments. I have attended FSI courses at Tucson, Houston, Long Beach, and Wichita. These included Lear 35, 25, KA-200/90, C-421, International Procedures, and Jet Orientation.

I would rate Tucson as the best, and the rest about equal. I have always had good simulator instructors, but a couple of times have had bad systems instructors (King Air 90 in Houston; King Air 90/200 in Long Beach).

Tucson is the best Learning Center without a doubt, of those I have attended.

FSI has been doing a lot of hiring world wide, and the experience level is showing.

Check 6

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Kick the tires, light the fires, first off is lead, brief on guard.

[fokkerjet]

con-pilot,

I think despite school, you'll love flying the -ex. I flew it for about 300 hours, or about 2 years. I also flew the 900A and the 900B, and Falconjet improved the airplane with every version they came out with.

Big problem we had was with the fuel system. Several times during top offs, fuel sprayed out the vents, so don't stand to close to the wing when fueling. Also had a few cases of not being able to put fuel in the center tank. If you ordered the 3rd FMS, don't plan on loading a full flightplan into it, the IAC can't handle all the data. We just entered orgin and destination into it and ran the performance in current ground speed and fuel flow.

Side note, we had an opportunity to fly a trip along side our GV. GV at 470 and we at 370, both at M.83, and our fuel burn was 200 lbs total less then the Gulfstream.

Good luck :)

[185 Lbs of Ballast!!]

Manage........HA!

Nice one Nelly - You packed your trunk yet?

[Porgy]

I learnt to fly on a simulator.

Sure, by then I had an ATPL, 2000+ hours and 500+ Jet time, but I actually learnt to fly on a simulator.

But my sim time was with a company training captain, not FS.

Porgy

[con-pilot]

fokkerjet, we just learned about not loading the 3rd FMS with a full flight plan today, but our airplane, serial #84 will be delivered with 5.2 (might be a 6.0) data base and a plemium (sp ?) computer base. Should be able to handle a full flight plan and the A/T.

Tomorrow we get to get into the sim. Me being an old B-72 jock, where nothing is automatic, will have a great time!

When my e-mail gets back, if it's ok with you, I would like to visit with you about your experence on the 900EX, ok?

Flanker, you know what? I agree with everything you said. At the Flight Safety school I'm at right now, all the younger instructors can talk about is get a job with a major airline.

I got to admit. I wish them luck.

[This message has been edited by con-pilot (edited 16 January 2001).]

[This message has been edited by con-pilot (edited 16 January 2001).]

[LAVDUMPER]

Con-pilot and Fokkerjet,

Hey, some of us would love to listen in on your 900EX conversations... And I'd like to hear more about the BBJ that Fokkerjet and Stress-free are always talking about. More detail is better than less detail.

Don't deprive us all!!!!!!!!


Cheers

[Billywhiz]

Well I just did a refresher course in Houston, here in the US.
The Flight safety instructors were very informative and the Simm guys were real switched on..The thing that spoiled it was a couple of Brits at the back of the class, who obviosly were just not interested in the subject and just sat there disrupting the class.
I think their attitude was appaulling.

[StressFree]

Billywizz,
I remember those two Brits in that class, I saw one of them in a mirror this morning, you must have done the same!! They spent 4 days laughing. Outrageous.
What did you make of todays activities? Usual waste of time!!!
Cheers.

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

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'Keep the stress down'

[BobtheGardener]

Morning Gentlemen (I use the term loosely),
Flightsafety are definately the B team, must go, back shortly (dont call me shorty).



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"Bon Appetite"

[Billywhiz]

Hey,Stressfull,
Are you sure,You were on the same course?
Outragous! Bloody Brits..They get everywhere!
This morning,another waste of time..Sometimes,the IN-House courses can be the most TEDIOUS of all!!!..And what tedious courses have you been on lately Bobthe Gardner!!..and i dont mean courses on how to be TEDIOUS!!!

[185 Lbs of Ballast!!]

Hmm, A very below par effort Mr StressFree!! HE!! would never be able to mock himself!! Sounds like the work of a bored pilot who has spent tooooo much time in the 'Land of the Free' (so long as you were an immigrant a couple of hundred years ago, and didn't mind killing a few million local indiginous inhabitants!!!!!) Anyway "Bon Appetite" to you all!! http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

And Billy Wizz - "Keep on running"! :rolleyes:

[Flyswift]

185lbs....... Hello chap.

Have you performed the new pre-flight check manevoer called 'Clear Jets' yet? :) :)




[This message has been edited by Flyswift (edited 18 January 2001).]

[Shanwick Shanwick]

Evening SF,

I spent 4 weeks at FSI Houston (Hobby) on an ATR course a few years ago. I don't remember much about the course but there was this cracking Hawaiian girl from Mahalo Airlines doing the same thing.

Needless to say I didn't get much sleep!

Brgds

[LAVDUMPER]

Flanker,

You mentioned your post your Lear training in Tucson. You also mentioned that you had A320 experience. Just curious, have you made the jump from airline to corporate? If so, what motivated your decision? And, are you by chance joining Flexjet out of the UK?

I had a chance to sit in the sharp-end a Flexjet Lear 60 last night - what a marvellous machine!

Cheers

[Flanker]

Can't or won't say too much at the moment.I was airline, am corporate, going back to airline!!
My impression of the Lear 60 is that of a great airframe and even better engines,but the split design of the FMS/Autopilot interface is pretty strange.I have not a lot of time on it so these are early impressions.
The 767-200 and the King Air200 are the two types I have enjoyed most.

[LAVDUMPER]

Flanker,

Well, at least you got a taste of both worlds. Personally, having sat in the sharp end of that Lear 60 last night, and having previous experience in airliner flight decks as well, I can't see the airline attraction (unless you focus on the money and security issues - both valid).

Best of luck and enjoy the Lear 60 hot-rod while you still can!!!!!

Cheers