What are my RIGHTS going through security?

[Dave]

Please can anyone confirm what rights I have when going through the security check point.

For example I understand I can request a chair if I have to take my shoes off, and I can request a private area for a hand search of my person or my bags.

What other "rights" do I have? I might consider using them to their full extent in order to make the security process as painful as possible!

Cheers.

[Carnage Matey!]

As painful as possible for whom? Yourself?

[Raggyman]

That is an awesome question. The trouble is most of them couldn't care less that you delay other people getting through security.

I wonder if someone was to print up t-shirt's with, security is a farce printed on the back, and you just gave them away for people to wear when they go through security and collect them on the other side.. Mind you they would probably make you get a short flight just to return the shirts to the other side of the entry. I honestly think there needs to be something highly visible to show a) how many people are annoyed at the stupid and senseless security, b) a online petition can easily be ignored, but if you have a bunch of people wearing highly visible t-shirts, then it isn't. It kind of embarasses them into making a decision.

What about A4 sized fluro paper with a slogan on it? And you just stick it on your back?

[Dave]

Its just to cause a nuisance really. I know that it won't achieve anything but might make me chuckle away and feel a bit better.

Was also thinking about putting some porn in the top of my flight bag!

[nivsy]

Lets just hope your actions Dave dont cause additional hold ups for the rest of us...or at least the person behind u....lol. Nevertheless security sucks...and I cannot believe the delays especially at UK airports -at least on European terms. Still cant help thinking get rid of the shops and increase security areas which are actually manned! Afterall we are passing thru' an airport to get to a destination - not do high street shopping. I really do think that airports - especially UK - know what makes them money despite passenger q's trying to get departure airside areas. Ho hum...


Nivsy

[ExSimGuy]

You have to turn up three hours before flight time now, to "allow for security delays".

Mostly I've found that security doesn't take an hour longer than it used to when it was 2 hours. Perhaps 20 minutes . . .

So that's 40 minutes more that BAA have you around the airside concessions! :E

(But I'm sure that's not relevant . . . .)

[Rwy in Sight]

Serioulsly annoying security staff and giving a hard time it is beneficial because one may dream that should enough fuss is created something may change.

Obviously the main issue is that the no pax or crew should suffer and one must not lost its flight without recompensation. I think asking to see the regulations, asking to be searched by a female if one is male, move very very slowly...

And yes refrain from bying anything in the airport...


Rwy in Sight

[spiney]

Getting back to the jist of the thread... What are your rights going through security? Well they certainly change depending on the country. I was travelling from Russia to SE Asia transiting through Frankfurt. I had inadvertently left my Leatherman in the bottom of my carry-on bag. (I'd normally have it in my check-in bag, but not on this occasion and I didn't notice it on a Russian domestic flight and a further international flight that day... nor apparently did any of the multiple security checks I went through.) I got through transit security in FRA and as far as the Business Lounge. I was looking through my bag when I found the misplaced Leatherman. My connection to BKK was in 3 hours. I debated about just binning the offending article, but it cost over a hundred bucks and I was loath just to throw it away. I considered mailing it home, but could find a post office airside. I knew it was illegal, but since I'd been though several security checks that day without being stopped, I thought I'd just play dumb and if it was found, bin it at that point - I'd seen plently plastic bins at security points with the offending articles - BIG mistake spiney....
I went to the gate a bit early and sure enough it was found on X-Ray. "Oh dear, didn't realise, silly me - no problem - just chuck it in the bin." Not in Germany you can't... The offending article was examined as if it were some futuristic light sabre and deemed a 'weapon' as a result of the blade being a few mm longer that it would to be classified merely as a tool. Not only was I not permitted to take the 'veppon' on the aircraft, I was not allowed to have it in my possession in the terminal and this 'crime' was a matter, not for the Airport Police, but for the Federal Police.... not good... Flight boarding in an hour... But since this was Germany they were not allowed simply to confiscate the item. I had to produce and sign paperwork indicating that I was prepared to surrender the 'veppon'... After about 30 minutes the Feds arrived replete with real weapons... all very intimidating I assure you... and I was asked if I wanted a Lawyer present and read my rights... getting worse..
I honestly thought I was going to be arrested and would not be allowed to continue my journey. As it transpired I had to make a formal statement summarising what had happened and confirming that I knew such an item was not allowed. I aslo had to sign a separate agreement to surrender the item to the Police. The case would be raised with a local magistrate in my absence and my agreement to surrender the item was understood. The paperwork would be forwarded to my home address and I would be allowed to continue my journey - to my mighty relief...
So it seems, in Germany at any rate, they don't actually have the right to confiscate the offending item - you have to give it to them. I could have got my Leatherman back, but it would have been outside the terminal and for sure I'd have missed my flight. If I'd for a second imagined the hassle this was going to cause I'd have binned it without a second thought. The Airport Security, Airport Police and Federal Police were professional, thorough and courteous but it's not something I'd wish to repeat.

[Final 3 Greens]

Getting back to the jist of the thread

Do we think it is a good idea to "work to rule" as pax, further irritating the security staff and creating extra delays?

I do not agree with some of the security provisions, but deliberately creating more turmoil does not seem clever to me.

[slim_slag]

Have to agree with F3G. Last thing we need is people playing silly buggers to prove a point which we all know about already. Security are already very under-resourced and insufficiently trained and we don't need security people being taken off the job to bother with a prima-donna pilot who should be fired.

Thing that annoys me is that in other countries security is done so much better. In places like the States you can be through in a fraction of the time it takes in the UK, and the scrutiny is as good if not better. Whoever is running security in the UK airports should be dismissed for gross misconduct.

[Emeraude]

I was randomly stopped at Doncaster. "Do you mind if I search you, sir?" Well, naturally I did mind and said so. The security guard then said that he couldn't search me if I didn't give permission! I didn't press it, because I am 100% certain that if I had not let him search me I would have got no further, so it seems you have rights but you are in no position to assert them. The guard said that being searched was for my safety; my feeling is that searching ME has nothing to do with MY safety - my search would be assured by searching everyone else!

Incidentally, as you arrive at security at Doncaster you have to pose at a desk for a photo to be taken. The very nice lady explained to me that the strip on the boarding card is linked to the photo - "it's extra security." Which is something of a nonsense, because the officials at the gates were nowhere near the computer screens that could have shown these photos when they took the cards! I don't remember ever giving my consent to having my photo taken when I booked - even the police have to charge someone first!

(I travel frequently between UK and France - holiday home - and have now experienced similar nonsense at the docks. On my last crossing my car was diverted into a shed, the doors were closed and and official wanted to know if I had any guns, any weapons, any knives etc etc. I answered no and he took a cursory glanse in the boot. It was ony the following day when unpacking that I remembered the garden shears! Anyone ever heard of a ferry being hijacked by a terrorist waving a pair of garden shears?)

[Rallye EI-BFP]

A friend of mine transited STN on the way to Rome last year, the security insisted he turn on his laptop and go through files on it...Do security even have a right to do this?

[1DC]

Anyone know if British Airports have a regulator,e.g. OFWAT for water, Insurance Ombudsman etc??
Reason is that i have never been through security and seen more than 50% of x ray machines working, daughter missed a transit flight cos only one out five machines available was being used. If airports were fined twenty grand a day for every machine and/or security line not working i suspect security lines would soon become quicker than they have ever been..

[Gouabafla]

Take your jacket off before you get to the head of the line, have your laptop out of your bag and ready to put in a tray and get through security as fast as you can so that the rest of us lining up behind you don't have to wait for hours. Having spent far too much of my life standing in security lines I'm convinced that at least fifty percent of the hold ups are caused by pax who can't seem to understand a few simple rules to speed things up.

Then again, I've got to pass through CDG tomorrow morning and I'm feeling grumpy about it already, so I may not be entirely unbiased.

[ZFT]

At most airports and always at LHR, if they just opened the other 50% of unused scanners, that would alleviate far more of the problems than pax (in)actions.

[FairlieFlyer]

Agree with Gou... last security clearance through LHR was delayed even further by a passenger who was held up after being told he couldn't talk his 2 litre bottle of water onboard.

He then decided to drink it all before proceeding - refusing anyone else to pass by him. Nice.

A mini-riot ensued getting a number of people departing the scene highly aggravated.

What are my rights to not have to deal with moron passengers?

[whitehorse]

The expression "if you pay peanuts you get monkeys" comes to mind.

Changing the subject a little I was stopped in STN as my computer keyboard tested positive for explosives. The only thing I can think of was that I had just cleaned my computer with computer wipes (I do not participate in sport shooting and I am not envolved with explosives in anyway). I was allowed to continue with my flight after helping the supervisor with a short form. He stated that it happens often and that the detecting equipent does give false indications.

Q. Does this mean that the equipment can miss possible explosive contamination?

Q. Do SB follow up on these reports?

[skydriller]

A friend of mine transited STN on the way to Rome last year, the security insisted he turn on his laptop and go through files on it...Do security even have a right to do this?

If I was asked to do this, I would turn the PC on to show it worked, but there is no way I would let a security guy look at any of the files on it.

Its not a personal privacy issue, its a corporate data security issue. PC/Data security is a big issue for most companies these days, I had to do a course about the use of Wireless/Internet/Laptop data security when I jioned, and I dont consider I have access to particularly sensitive data in my job - but i get to use client companies data as part of my job, and that is the problem....

Regards, SD..

[Impress to inflate]

Traveling years ago to offshore rigs through Shetland, we were search by Shell security at the airport. It was there right to sexually assault us and go through ALL our offshore gear in an initiate manner, checking ever item in our kit bags. This tip by Shell security has now been passed onto airport staff at many UK airports. They also tried to act as HM Customs and Excise by trying to confiscate fags bought in from the rigs.

[Mr Quite Happy]

in that case you would be leaving your lappy toppy behind...

BAA etc want to see if the lap top works because the circuitry can hide explosives inside fromt the xray. By seeing the computer will power up you are easing the load on the xray reader so more bags can more through more quickly.

File scanning however will show nothing apart from will it work. A better suggestion would be to check the DVD player works or all the ports. File scanning isn't going to prove anything BUT the security guards don't know and so they think they are being clever... as if looking around a filing system is the same as looking inside the physical case... I mean, really LOL....

Anyway, refusal of course will mean they'll not let you through which means you'll miss your flight. Which isn't really why folk go to airports. Worse, under UK legislation at least, refusal probably means that you are giving reasonable cause which means they may just take a screwdriver to the mother board in a back room where they keep the dogs.... Perhaps a worthwhile strategy for a new laptop on insurance then!

[Vortex what...ouch!]

I recently had the miss fortune to take a few flights around Europe for business and holiday after not having flown for a while.

Security is a joke and purely an inconvenience to pax. I figure it is now more hassle to fly than to drive or take the train within western Europe and will be doing so in future. Long haul I don't have a lot of choice but short haul, forget it.

I was due to fly to Spain for a week off in 2 weeks but after the recent experience bugger that. I cancelled the flights and we decided to drive down through Germany to Austria instead. Who would fly these days if you had another choice, not me any more I can tell you.

Including travel to and from the airport for a one hour flight it is now taking about 5 to six hours each way – that’s half a working day just traveling and its incredibly stressful now! I suspect I’m not the only one discovering the joys of train travel again.

Idiots are biting the hand that feeds it all in the belief the paying customer will continue to just blindly hand over money and take the abuse. Well my company has now cancelled all business travel short haul because of the inordinate amount of time taken to get anywhere. Video conferencing all the way.

[caaardiff]

The whole security issues lately couldnt have been more publicised in the press and around the majority of airports. Yet pax and crew still try to play the system.

Its perfectly simple, read the signs, know the rules, listen to the check-in staff and it saves alot of hassle before people reach the security check point.

Therefore reducing the long searches....people trying to get things through when majority of the time, they wont.... less people being sent back to check bags in.
Basically Less A***ng about! Its not difficult to be prepared, and everyone benefits in the long run. :ugh:

[10secondsurvey]

The difficulty is of course, that if everyone complied with this, then the queues may get smaller, but guess what..they'd then cut the numbers of security personnel, and the quesues would get bigger again. It's about maximising profit, not providing a good service.

When passing through security, I simply refuse to be barked at by some moron wearing a yellow vest. I ignore these goons when they are shouting.

The last time I went through Gatwick, security was a friggin joke, with queues outside the building, and lots of nobs strutting about shouting to people telling them where to stand etc..

Do not let these people harras you into thinking you must move quickly or get stressed, just take your time, and stay really unstressed by the whole experience. If other people or staff get stressed, then that's their problem.

If there are delays it is down to incompetent management, not the travelling public. Never forget, you pay for the security checks in your ticket, and deserve to be treated with respect.

[Bob Lenahan]

Suppose a pax gets part way thru the inspection and then says" The heck with all this, I'm leaving". My guess is he'd be stopped and given a very thourough search. Anybody know?

[FirmamentFX]

Take your jacket off before you get to the head of the line, have your laptop out of your bag and ready to put in a tray and get through security as fast as you can so that the rest of us lining up behind you don't have to wait for hours. Having spent far too much of my life standing in security lines I'm convinced that at least fifty percent of the hold ups are caused by pax who can't seem to understand a few simple rules to speed things up.

Couldn't agree more - there are few things more annoying in airports than people who have to wait to be asked to remove their jacket (and, if you know you have steel caps as I do, then your shoes) and can't seem to do it while waiting for 10 minutes in line...

I liken this to people getting on a bus who get to the driver and *then* choose to get their purse/wallet out and search for exactly the right change. Or the same thing for supermarket queues (especially here in France, where it is also obligatoire to have a long chat with the checkout girl before paying...)

Cheers!

Martin

PS: Gouabafla, yeah CDG can be absolute hell.... :ugh:

[Hirsutesme]

I just think it is pointless getting hugely stressed. I prepare as requested, greet people politley and cheerily, and get through with minimal problems. if you are stressed, write to your MP, guess what, it works, if an MP gets 10 letters, he knows there are a hundred concerned people, a 100 letters, on any subject, is enough to get them leaping around. try it, you may be surprised:ok:

[Riverboat]

I am afraid we are living in a Police State - in the broadest sense of the term. Our freedom has been almost terminally eroded for "safety" and "security" reasons. We just cannot argue, and expect to win, with anyone stopping us doing something on alleged "safety" or "security" grounds. You are likely to get locked up! We have a frightening culture at the moment.

You can't blame the people on the front line. Yes, maybe the security guys are unpleasant at times. Maybe they are underpaid and maybe they are totally hacked off by the pathetic passengers and their whingeing.

So we have a dicotomy.

The logical thing to do is express our serious concern about the present "Police State" culture in Britain (and other European countries, incidentally), to those in power. To MPs, to Police Chiefs, to Security Chiefs, Airline Chiefs, Airport Chiefs, etc. This takes a bit of effort but it can be done at home.

What we shouldn't be doing is giving the guys on the front line a hard time, as this will just make things worse for us all.

And may I suggest that any letters that are written to "important people" should be well written, polite and persuasive, with examples of issues being complained about. They will then get treated with respect.

[Al Fakhem]

Can somebody please explain why so many (even newer) airports have such cr@p scanning equipment that they have to ask you to take your laptop out of its bag for screening?:ugh:

[OFBSLF]

The logical thing to do is express our serious concern about the present "Police State" culture in Britain (and other European countries, incidentally), to those in power. To MPs, to Police Chiefs, to Security Chiefs, Airline Chiefs, Airport Chiefs, etc. This takes a bit of effort but it can be done at home.Oh please. If you were truly in a police state, you wouldn't be able to say such things without getting dragged off to jail.

[Riverboat]

OFBSLF - no argument with that, but your comment is not in the least relevant to the point being made: we do not have a TRUE Police State of course, but it is rapidly going that way. All I am saying is - to those people who live in Britain (you obviously don't) - make constructive complaints about many of the things, including the way people are treated at airports, to those responsible or allegedly in charge. And don't bother making life for the "workers" harder than ever, so that they get a jaundiced view about (in this case) passengers.

What we should not do is nothing. The dicotomy is that we don't want to be a nation of whingers.

[skydriller]

Mr Happy,

If you read my post, I said I will happily turn a laptop on if asked......and show the CD/DVD player works if required....

.....but those of you who have company info on their laptops should think before letting just anyone have access to their files. Its YOUR JOB on the line and I think there would be definite grounds for questioning the need for airport security to see data of a corporate or personal nature on your laptop.

As for the Police state comments from some, it is worrying that any questioning of "security" could mean instant detention. As several have said above, airport security has become the bain of many travellers lives now. OK, so I dont get much choice but to fly for work (except route - and the UK is now avoided at all cost), but for our family travel, it seems I am not the only one to have quit flying comercial around Europe as its such a pain in the arse - so we will be driving on our holidays this year too....

Its so sad - I used to enjoy all flying, no matter whether it was in an airliner or a microlight - now I hate airline flying, and its totally down to the airport experience we now have to suffer which just puts you in such a bad mood before you even step aboard the aeroplane.

At least I still have my PPL thank god, so I get to enjoy real flying when I have time off.

Regards, SD..

[groundhand]

There has been a lot of hot air talked by a lot of people.
ANYONE who deliberately goes out of their way to slow the security process down or make life even more difficult for the operatives really should take the bus/train or swim.

Have any of these moaners read the DfT site information?

Any pilots who are contributiong should take a good hard look in the mirror. These people are doing a job to protect them, their crew and their passengers.
The security staff don't do it for fun, they don't make the rules and in general I have found them more than courteous if you are civil and polite to them. Until recently I used to take about 100 departures a year out of various airports. If you think the UK is poor - try the US. The attitudes shown here would get you locked up for a few nights.

[exvicar]

Groundhand

Any pilots who are contributiong should take a good hard look in the mirror. These people are doing a job to protect them, their crew and their passengers.
The security staff don't do it for fun, they don't make the rules and in general I have found them more than courteous if you are civil and polite to them. Until recently I used to take about 100 departures a year out of various airports. If you think the UK is poor - try the US. The attitudes shown here would get you locked up for a few nights

Not entirely true. How do they protect me by ensuring that I have to remove my shoes and belt at security? As a pilot, in flight my hands coul be far more dangerous than my shoes! It is as much to do with empire building. If they were serious about security they wouldn't let 300 passengers per aeroplane buy and take on to flights glass bottles with 50% flammable alcohol. Glass=weapon, flammable= in flight fire. No duty free=cost to BAA. If they were that worried you would have to buy your duty free on arrival.

[groundhand]

Exvicar

You seem to be getting mixed up between the operatives at the airports who have to enforce policy, the airport companies who have to meet the country's legislation and the knuckle heads within Government and the DfT who make the rules and keep on adding to the levels without any proper review.

To claim that just because you are flightdeck you should, in some way, have special treatment is nonesense.

I have witnessed and had to deal with a First Officer who claimed, whilst going through security in front of passengers, that he had a bomb in his bag (I'm glad to say that he was dismissed and hopefully never flew again)- just because they wear a uniform and sit up front does not mean that they have a brain, are less susceptible to coersion or could not be a serious risk.

I totally agree that the type of checks and processes do not offer any guarantees, I also agree with you re glass (you can add pens, pencils - you can stab someone just as effectively weith a Cross propelling pencil as with a knife) and lots of the other of the small details of what is, and is not acceptable.

It all goes back to pre Lockerbie and then the knee jerk reaction from our Government following that horrendous act - however, had the flight been on time and the intended timing would have happened mid-Atlantic and I doubt very much if the UK reation would have been the same.

Just look at the farce with airside access passess. If you are crew you can access any UK airpoirt to operate a flight - how do the airports check this - they don't. If you work for a support company you can not get a similar type of access pass - you have to apply for each airport (BAA do have a common facility) and then keep each individual airport active by going airside once every 30 days.

I still maintain that responsible aviation employees should not be looking to make the life of security operatives more difficult than it needs to be to try to prove some pathetic point that is not within the operatives gift to change.

[Al Fakhem]

There is justified objection to pax deliberately slowing down the security process. But how about the airport authorities doing the same?

Clearly, there is x-ray equipment around that can easily handle packed bags. So why do security at some airports pi$$ everybody off by insisting on unpacking laptops? This is clearly deliberate obstruction. If they are indeed so keen on getting people moving, they can at least oblige by installing state-of-the-art x-ray machines.

[groundhand]

Al Fakeham

Suggest you read the DfT site.
It's NOT the airports that want to do this, they have to do it to meet UK DfT requirements. It's exactly the same with the farce of 100ml fluids in clear plastic bags - what the heck can a security operative tell by looking through clear plastic when the bottle/container is not transparent?


On the other hand, effective passenger profiling is a fantastic way of assessing risk but the do-gooders get hot under the collar about civil liberties. Can't have it all ways I guess.

People should start winding up their local MP's as these are the knuckleheads who bring in all the specific requirements through the DfT.

[OFBSLF]

OFBSLF - no argument with that, but your comment is not in the least relevant to the point being made: we do not have a TRUE Police State of course, but it is rapidly going that way.Actually, riverboat, my comment is quite relevant. If you believe that the reductions in civil liberties in your country are a major issue, then you need to convince others. Calling your nation a police state is, at best, a great exaggeration, or at worst, an outright lie. The Soviet Union was a police state. Nazi Germany was a police state. The UK is not anywhere close to a police state.

This type of over-the-top rhetoric hurts your efforts to convince others. You may believe that the UK is headed in the wrong direction, and you may well be right. But using that type of rhetoric will only convince folks like me that you are either 1) a few bottles short of a six-pack or 2) prone to deliberately making misleading statements.

[Riverboat]

Suit yourself OBSLUF. And let's stick to the point: we were talking about problems at security, not whether I am one brick short of a load, which is IRRELEVANT!

[Mr Quite Happy]

I'm choosing option 2 from:
This type of over-the-top rhetoric hurts your efforts to convince others. You may believe that the UK is headed in the wrong direction, and you may well be right. But using that type of rhetoric will only convince folks like me that you are either 1) a few bottles short of a six-pack or 2) prone to deliberately making misleading statements.

[exvicar]

Groundhand
They don't just hand out airside passes. Seem to remember having a 2 month wait for disclosure Scotland and criminal record checks prior to being given my pass to enable me to do my job. Conviction or failure to pass the disclosure = no pass = no job. If the pass did not give access to other airports, it would be a little difficult to operate return flights and I would do every return sector on the train!
Do 100% of passengers have to remove their shoes? Only asking as I know this didn't used to be the case, which was rather galling when the aircraft drivers did.

[groundhand]

Exvicar.
My point was why are aircrew allowed this concession but ground service staff, who have valid reasons to be airside at multiple airports, not?

If the DoT, as it was then, had regulated a single avaition security system intead of every airport, or airport group, going off and doing their own thing we could have had a UK wide airport security network - now, forget it!

Ref the previous point on removing shoes. It depends on the structure of the shoe/boot. That's why nearly all airport workers have gone to carbon fibre toe-tecs rather than metal. A lot of everyday shoes have a metal plate in their soles and this activates when going through an AMD.

[kaikohe76]

Hi Folks,

Just putting aside the events of the past couple of days for a moment, can anyone shed any light on the following point please.

I have some reason to believe that, even with the current very high level of
security & other checks at UK Airports, `Customs Officers` are still not liable to undergo any of these checks & thus can pass freely from Land side to Air side with no security checking whatsoever.

I may well be wrong & have no axe to grind at all I hasten to add, but would just be interested to hear any further info on this point.

[groundhand]

`Customs Officers` are still not liable to undergo any of these checks & thus can pass freely from Land side to Air side with no security checking whatsoever.

This should not be answered.
Securitiy - Who, why, when and how are controlled by the DfT. The specifics are not 'secret' but are kept confidential within the levels who need the information. Why would aviation want to broadcast the details.

There is a long, long list of agencies, individuals etc. who are; who can in certain circumastances or will never be exempt from search.

Not publishing this is not secret squirrel, just sensible.
GH