Being a bizjet driver

[WX Man]

I'm curious to know what it's like flying bizjets. It is something I aspire to (OK, I admit, you should know about something before you aspire to it), hence the question.

I'd appreciate your views on your life with your current company. How many hours flying do you get a month? How many duty hours? Days on- off? As a bizjet driver wannabe, I'm wondering about these things.

[JJflyer]

Yo...

Have no time off at all, mostly on 24h stby. Changing from one hotel to an other whil on the road (4-5 star). Been on the road since May 15th 2000 and still don't know when I am going to see Home.
Flying between 30h to 100h a month all over the world seeing places that I never had even heard of let alone thought I would ever visit.
Salary is excellent and paid taxfree.
I still enjoy it but it's getting old fast.

JJ

Sorry about the thumbs down. Could not help it as the computer I used did not load pics as they were supposed to be loaded.


[This message has been edited by JJflyer (edited 09 September 2000).]

[StressFree]

Reading about JJFlyer's experiences of corporate may put you off. My job is just the opposite, I'm home all the time, with an excellent salary package, very little weekend work and flying two decent jet types.
I've had jobs like JJ's and it can be hard thankless work but if youre lucky there a good jobs to be found.

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'Keep the stress down'

[WX Man]

Quite the contrary, JJFlyer's account sounds to me like the most ideal job anyone could give me. I really like the idea of moving about a lot. Mind you, it's easy to say that sitting at 'home' at the computer...

I reckon I'd like it, and maybe one day I'll settle down. But I would not ever, ever, ever like to be married!

[ozone ranger]

With the right boss or company it is the best flying job in the world. That is if you like to travel. If you want a 9 to 5 flying job like flight test, crop dusting etc. then corporate flying is not for you. If need to fly in a structured enviorment with lots of rules and procedures such as government, airline and military then corporate flying is not for you. When I say rules and procedures I mean union rules, company procedures and things like that, not those that pertain to saftey of flight. If you want to make a lot of money and not work much you need to aspire to be a captain for a major U.S. carrier like Delta or United, nothing against them I wish I could be so lucky.

I am very lucky in that I was hired back by a former employer who had been forced to close down his flight department due to financial problems about fifteen years ago. We had kept in touch through the years and when he became able buy a used Sabre 65 I left the government and went back to work for him two years ago. Our companies are doing very well and we are adding a Falcon 900EX as soon as the blasted thing gets built, delivery in the first part of 2002.

My salary, while not in the realm of a Delta 74/77 captain, is very good. I have profit sharing, retirement plan, free health insurance, unlimited expense account, stay in 4/5 star hotels and on long trips my wife comes with us if there is room or airlines out to where we are if there is not enough room on the airplane. If I should lose my medical I have full disability insurance payed for by the company. Or I could stay on as the flight department manager.

Be warned however that my job is not the typical corporater pilot's situation. There are a lot of bad jobs out there so you need to be careful. I am gone on a lot of weekends and holidays, but when there is nothing to do at the airport we don't have to be there and so we are off a lot during the week.

Anyway I have blown my own horn long enough, good luck in your aviation future.

[throber69]

Wx man,

hows it goin buddy.

shock horror I actually agree with JJ flyer. but you would just love it

LOVE AND KISSES THROBER 69

[WX Man]

Hey throb! Long time no see! what you up to know?

Nice to hear another echo to JJ's comment. I had a conversation with someone who I met at PPSC about this sort of thing... I think we agreed it takes a special type of person to like it. What sort of person in your experience is suited to the job?

Moreover, what licences do the operators who are normally associated with this sort of thing like you to have... is it JAR, or do they accept FAA? Who are the employers to target? What sort of experience do they require?

[lr60drvr]

Like some of the other posts have suggested, its not for everyone. If you truly enjoy flying and the challenge of trying to keep the guy happy who signs everyones' paychecks it can be very rewarding. I have done it for thirty + years and it is still fun to go to work.

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[JJflyer]

Hmmm...

Well I got FAA Licence and validations from both Cayman Islands and Aruba.

It does take a different type of bird to like this line of work.
If you are in flying for the sake of flying, most of the bizjet operators are not going to fulfill your thirst for flying.
Lately I have been lucky since I have averaged 70h a month in the last 6 months, but there have been months in between where I didn't fly at all.

Like I said I get to go to places where I never would have gone while wotking for a cheduled airline, unless ofcourse I was based in that geographic region.

This is not the typical US corporate job but does represent fairly typical Middle-Eastern
operation. Being on call for 24h and 365 is hard where ever you work, makes it easier if you can spend most of that time home. I do not have that luxury.

Still I do enjoy the flying and seeing the world and getting a FAT paycheck :)

Throber69 Nice to see you again http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

JJ

[4050 Exempt]

Being a corporate Pilot....hmmmm

I love it, lot's of time off, great equipment, flying for good boss's that entrust you with multimillion dollar equipment and thier lives. So they have treated me pretty well. If you have other areas to generate income it may be the perfect mix. The problem is the pay, the benefits, the fight for a raise every year, the constant justification financialy and busineswise...the airlines don't have to do that. I enjoy the freedom, since I fly a faster, heavier jet as a single pilot, there is no politics, and the boss is happy not to have to pay for the extra pilot. Keeps costs down. For me it's a 412kt single pilot hardon, but to progress in corporate(ie: make more money, more bennies) you need to fly the heavier stuff, that means moving...

Also the days can be real long...

why I do it.

Freedom, after I land I can do what I want while waiting for the people to come back, hit the gym, eat good food, make some calls, see a movie, et.

The flying is the best, I make the decisions, fly, and manage how I want to do it, no politics.

Respect, boss treats me well, single pilot jet, busy, tough, most pilots know that.

Pay that you can live on.

Exposure to biz people, opportunities.

Drawbacks.

Lagging pay, fight for raises, no standards, no union to fight for you, no job security, less benefits, have to live where you work.

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Sincerely,

4050 Exempt

[jetlinks]

I just would like to add my 2 cents to this topic... Just like the airlines, there are good business aviation jobs and bad ones. I believe that if you set your goals early, and follow a path to achieve those goals, your career objectives will most likely be met.

I fly for an international Fortune 50 company, flying great equipment (GIVs)with great co-workers. The pay is good, with benefits, and we fly 12-15 days a month, or about 325 hours per year, on average.

I will quote an old bizav friend of mine who said that the job is 5 percent flying and 95 percent getting along with others. He was very wise. With a relatively small set of co-workers, often the biggest challenge for us bizpilots is working alongside others. But if you find the right fit, there is no better job...

Best of luck in your career path.

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[AeroBoero]

Well , I have to say that despite never having flown a bizjet I was flying light twins before coming back to Europe. Smaller and lurking planes , but nonetheless the same profile as those guys up here told you. I have to say that as my goal is Airlines , every time I see a guy coming in a Citantion/King Air/Falcon/Lear......my heart beats faster. I still have my own doubts if I will settle in an Airline as the freedom of biz is still something that appeals to me as is the unexpected destination and the "adventure" taste sometimes it gives you.As them I was always with a cell on the belt , always on STDBY. But as said before , you have to deal with people "in loco", no F/A (generally) and do all by your self sometimes......that include carriyng the "boss" luggage around and going to town (that don't see pilots too much) in your "flying suit"and be saked if you're a security bodyguard of someone(that was fun!!).
It takes really something more to like this kind of job. I know that I don't have all that experience to give the complete picture here , but still thought it would be interesting to you to hear from a "fresh-still-lurking" pilot (who is doing 0 time lately and involved in a battle with JAA regs)


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Reporte través de XAREO

[actionman]

Jetlinks - the site looks very good !

After reading the comments here I am certain that this is the sort of aviation that I want to get into. It must be more fun that doing the same sectors, long or short, inbetween stops at the same hotels...But I have a few questions:

1.Can I get a FAA CPL/IR the next time I'm working in the US and then hope to work out of Europe or the UK flying N reg a/c ?

2.What is the hiring market like ? From all of the above messages it appears to me that it's not what you know but who...

3.Are any companies/individuals/contractors wiling to help financially with getting a type rating if someone hasn't got one ?

Any advice would be well received.

[Latte tester]

Corporate Pilot.....been there, done that, boss was just that - a boss, didn't care about flight duty day, probably wasn't aware of such a thing. We did however teach him about slot times! Great flying, but long days and way behind in the pay department considering what we were doing (jet and helo).
If you're lucky, you can do really well, if not, look for something else before you burn out.
Hey throber69, how's the GF???????

Latte time

[Amazon man]

WX man. Now for some positive comment I was corporate for a few years and loved it Brand new aircraft and very interesting flying with believe it or not a roster over 6 weeks in advance, find an airline that can better that.
Have now been airline for some years, bad rosters, filthy aircraft, deferred defects by the handful and the wonderful airline management. If I get the chance with a good corporate position I will be back like a shot. Pick your company carefully as in airlines there are good and bad but dont be put off, a good corporate position is far better than most ailine positions i can think of. Good luck

[bizjet pilot]

Been flying biz jets for 6 years in the States mostly. Really enjoy the work, though somettimes you know it is work not play.

Every jet I've flown past 6 years has smelled like a new car. I am Union, too, so we have that (NetJets does anyway.)

Very interesting flying, too, and I work 23 weeks per year. That's the good news. The bad news is, it is for one week at a time. I still prefer week on, week off, to shorter periods.

But regular corporate jobs can be more satisfying, because you really know your passengers, and you tend to visit familiar places where you inevitably make an acquaintance or two. (No nods or winks necessarily.)

Problem is the top 4 or 5 major airlines in the US pay so much more that it is worth the no fun, ugly big airports, and cockpit colleagues who show you pictures of their new Ferrari (their third) and bitch all the time about they hate their job.

My opinion is life is short. Do what you like, at a salary that makes you happy. Don't worry if there's another job pays more but you'll hate it.

[jetlinks]

Actionman - Thanks for the site comments about www.jetlinks.net. (http://www.jetlinks.net.) Our official launch is on October 8.

As for your questions:
1) Yes, it should not be a big deal to get your US ATP or CPL. Typically, if you don't do it on your own, you can get the US check ride when you go to school on a particular aircraft. FlightSafety can take care of all the details, and I have some great contacts to facilitate this if that is what you decide to do.
2) The hiring market right now is very good. The full time labor market is very tight, and companies are finding it hard to find qualified applicants. The part time and contract market is doing very well, too. GIV guys are making around $550usd+expenses a day, and GV guys are around $1000/day. Check out jetlinks.net/resources/jobs. AEPS and bizjetpilot.com are good employment resources.
3) Most companies like to hire current, typed pilots. With that said, if you have a good background and experience, most corporations expect to send you to school (at least for an SIC check). For part-time work it is unusual for a company to send you to school and/or get your type rating. I have heard of this, though.

I hope this helps. Good luck in your search!


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[actionman]

Jetlinks thanks for your help. I'll continue to watch the site.

[jetlinks]

Actionman, here is the site for information on getting your US CPL if you hold a foreign (non-US) certificate: http://www.awp.faa.gov/fsdo/foreign.htm
Good luck.

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[actionman]

Jetlinks - thanks again. I shall have a look at this and make a plan.

[actionman]

Jetlinks,

I've been doing some more research around the houses and still believe that the it would be best for me to do a FAA Cpl when I am next working in the US. Any ideas about a good US school (anywhere!) that will let me do a course in 2 halves ? Are there any schools in the UK that teach to FAA licences ? There are certainly enough in the US that teach to CAA standards.

There is also a fair amount of replies on one of the other threads about FAA qualified guys flying in the UK for airlines. Some of the answers are quite heated and some people are quite upset that they can't get a job...Personally I'm willing to work anywhere in the world.

[Bomber Harris]

action man

try www.landings.com (http://www.landings.com) for lists of US schools. No shortage to choose from. I know a few in FL if you're interested.

There will be no problem doing it in as many halves as you want!! You can take the written exams in UK before you go if you want. You'll just need a sign of from a FAA instructor....which shouldn't be too dificult to get

[actionman]

Thanks Bomber - I'll have a look and check things out.

[jetlinks]

Hey actionman!

Yes, I agree with bomber. There are many schools here in the states that can accomodate your training. I would suggest the Flight Safety Academy in Vero Beach, or Aviation Career Academy. I think ACA is now located in Lakeland. Both are professional pilot oriented, though perhaps a bit more expensive than your mom-and-pop flight school.

Good luck!

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[actionman]

Tanks for all of the above encouragement. I've just found a school in Gloucestershire that will enable me to complete the exams in the UK before doing a US CPL course.

It's time to get working !!

[actionman]

Hi guys,

I've been doing a bit of research in order to find a good school and have come with a list. Has anyone got any advice about the following schools:

1. Tyler Aviation.
2. Pilot's Choice Aviation, Texas.
3. California Eagle.
4. Mazzei Flying Service, California.
5. Walkwitz Aviation, Florida.
6. Merritt Island Air Service.
7. Naples Air Center, Florida (looks v.good).

As you've probably guessed I've simply picked up a back copy of Flying and waded in online.

I already have a PPL, night and instructor ratings and would appreciate any advice on a school that might take this into account.

My understanding at the moment is that you need 250 hrs min to start the CPL course whilst the ATPL demands 1500hrs min. My plan is to do the course, keep notching up hours towards the 1500 etc.

As I said above, I plan to do the exams in the UK before going out to the US to do the flying bit.

One final question: is there a good textbook that encompasses all of the FAA CPL syllabus that might be a good read before starting any exams?

As ever, thanks for the above help and any more that might arrive....

http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

[NIMBUS]

Actionman,
Drop me an e-mail and I'll give you a contact for a very good US school. I've visited a few so-called 'schools' and many of them are rip-offs!
Make sure to do a lot of research before you sign on anywhere!

[actionman]

Top man NIMBUS - will do.

[CoJoe]

actionman
likewise - have experience of flying in the US and have a couple of contacts for that first job - chuck me an email if you require any more gen
regards

[actionman]

Will do also - many thanks.

[actionman]

Nimbus - your listed email didn't play. Can you throw it up on this board and I'll try again ?