PSU up to the job?

[None of the above]

I've recently kindly been given a PC. It is quite adequate for web access etc but, by current standards, is woefully slow.
The processor is a 1Ghz Pentium 3 on an unbranded motherboard. A bit of Googling of the board's number (601-686A) would indicate that it was manufactured by/for Tiny Computers.
I suspect that replacing the processor with something faster is a non-starter as I can't imagine the board being up to the job.
I'm therefore considering replacing the board and processor with something a bit more up to date. One aspect that I hadn't considered is the capacity of the PSU.
The current unit is rated at 230W and is brand new. I'd rather keep it if at all possible, but will it be up to the job of running an up to date board and processor? I have something like an AM2 board and AMD processor (Athlon or Sempron) in mind.

All thoughts on the subject gratefully received.

Thank you, Gentlemen.

N o t a

[G-BMML]

Hi there,

I am a ex IBM engineer. Try going to this web site ;- www.aria.co.uk (http://www.aria.co.uk).

They sell at a good price what they call a barebones system. This is a case, motherboard and memory all pre installed. All you need to do after that is pick a CPUand RAM and plug it in.

Sugest you look at the Asus Vintage V2-P5G965 and scroll down to read the review of a customer, he does know what he is talking about.


Happy Times.

Bill

[unclenelli]

Tine used to use non-standard PSU's which are physically smaller than the normal size PSU - You'll have to be careful when buying a new PSU to ensure that it will physically fit inside the case!!!!!

[Saab Dastard]

You should google for "computer Power Supply Calculator" and run through a few to get a good idea of what you need. It is often the graphics card that pushes the requirement up.

SD

[Keef]

I'd be wary of changing PSU, for the reason unclene gives. 230 watts is fine for a faster motherboard, but not if you fit a fast graphics card. Many motherboards identify the power they require - add the graphics card's consumption and you have it.

Is the case a "standard" one? My daughter was given a PC with a slightly different layout, designed for one particular manufacturer. It went in the skip.

My laptop is 1.1GHz and does a fine job. Speed is not a problem. I just had to clear out a lot of the junk that ran in the background and slowed it down. It might be worth doing a Ctrl-Alt-Del and looking at the Task Manager to see what's running.

My old 600MHz machine sits here as a fileserver, and does many things as fast as the desktop (3.2GHz). It runs Linux, which doesn't have all the M$ baggage.

[vapilot2004]

PIII PSU is a bit different than the PIV (or AMD > 1Ghz) and newer units. They have an extra 4-prong plug. If your PSU has this hanging loose, then it is ok if the wattage is good.

HDD - CDROM - Peripherals and Case are work-able. :ok:


Good Luck!

[Saab Dastard]

In addition to your mobo & CPU combination and graphics card power requirements (which are the most variable), you need to add the following:

HDD = 25-35 watts each, depending on speed (5400 / 7200).

DVD RW = 25 Watts each,

Each case fan = 2-3 watts, depending on diam - note that a CPU fan counts!

PCI sound card = 7 watts

Each PCI card = 5 watts (don't count embedded NICs, WIFI, Sound).

LCD panel / permanent LED lights = 2 Watts.

For example, the PC I recently built has an AMD core2 Athlon, ASUS AM2 mobo, 2 x 1GB DDR2 RAM, GeForce 7300, 2 x 7200 HDD, 2 x DVD RW, FDD, PCI wifi NIC, PCI DAB Radio card.

Running my system through 2 calculators gives recommendations of 290 and 340 watt PSU. So the minimum would be 300, probably a 320 would be OK and a 350 would be best.

As it happens I installed a 500W PSU on the basis that I have plenty of headroom to upgrade.

I have several old Compaq PIII 6/7/800 MHz PCs that have proprietary 200W PSUs that are non-upgradeable, which does rather limit the extent to which I can improve them.

For example, I would like to install 2 x HDD, 2 x CD/DVD drives and a 128MB AGP4X vga card into the 866 MHz PC, but the 200W PSU simply isn't up to it. :(

SD

[None of the above]

Thanks everyone! Plenty of food for thought there...........

The case format is MicroATX with 'Tiny' embossed on the side although I'm not sure that all the innards are from the same vendor but the PSU does seem to be 'standard issue'.
It was given to me by a neighbour who runs a PC repair business and it came to him as a trade in. He needed the original PSU for a repair when the one ordered for the job he was doing failed to arrive. When it did land, he passed it to me to install. So, having a new PSU in the machine, it would seem a shame to replace it at this stage.
As it stands at the moment, there are no case fans fitted, so by the time I added in those with all the other components I had in mind, it would seem likely that the PSU would be operating under some strain.

Keef.........

Yes, I think you might have the right idea about using it as a Linux box.
I did try to do a dual boot job with it over the weekend (two HDDs), but the BIOS didn't take too kindly to the task. Will probably just leave the hardware 'as is' and use it as a dedicated Linux box.
Should be interesting trying to configure the USB Wireless thingy!

Thanks again, everyone.

N o t a

PS:

Keef...........

I wanted to format the HDD that had been used to install a Linux distro (as above). I hung it on the end of an IDE adaptor and connected it to my main machine by USB socket with the intention of using Partition Magic to format it.
Curiously, PM wouldn't (or couldn't) do the job. I can always make a boot floppy and FDISK it suppose, but I'm surprised that it couldn't be done as planned.
Any thoughts?

Ta, N o t a.

[Keef]

I wanted to format the HDD that had been used to install a Linux distro (as above). I hung it on the end of an IDE adaptor and connected it to my main machine by USB socket with the intention of using Partition Magic to format it.
Curiously, PM wouldn't (or couldn't) do the job. I can always make a boot floppy and FDISK it suppose, but I'm surprised that it couldn't be done as planned.
Any thoughts?

I've not used a recent version of PM, but I wouldn't be surprised if it couldn't cope with Ext3 or Reiserfs formatting. I've not used PM via a USB connector either, so...

My "old" machine took happily to multiple-boot using Grub - it's got three hard drives in it, each partitioned into several logical drives, and with different versions of Linux on most of them. Apart from some distros insisting that their installation should now be the Grub master, I've not had a problem.

I keep a "master" copy of the Grub menu.lst in a safe place, and copy it back to any new installation that thinks it's the only game in town. I've had to do that a few times.

Both QTParted and GParted do their thing with great ease. Multiple boot hasn't caused me any problems using Grub and the MBR. Others have told me that's not the best way, and have recommended various other approaches, but it "just works" so I'm happy.

[Saab Dastard]

there are no case fans fitted, so by the time I added in those

Ummm... if there are no case fans fitted, how are you going to install any? Cut a hole in the case? Perhaps you mean CPU fans?

The cooling will be provided by the PSU fan extracting warm air from the inside of the case, with ambient air entering via louvres in the front, and possibly side & rear also. All the internal components that require it will probably use passive cooling - i.e. heatsinks, although a 1 GHz CPU may well have a cooling fan in addition to a heatsink.

Very often the inside of the case has baffles to duct the air over components that particularly require cooling - it's there for a reason!

SD

[None of the above]

Morning, SD.

Ummm... if there are no case fans fitted, how are you going to install any? Cut a hole in the case? Perhaps you mean CPU fans?


The case is physically able to accept fans ie: mounting holes are drilled as are the exhaust 'perforations' and the CPU does have a fan.

I think I'll go down the road advocated by Keef (ta) and use it as a Linux box of some description until it expires.

Thanks all!

SD

[Saab Dastard]

The case is physically able to accept fans ie: mounting holes are drilled as are the exhaust 'perforations'

Fair enough, I hadn't thought of that!

SD

[Turn It Off]

I tend to go PSU nuts!!

I would not advise any less than 400W for the simple reason that I have never been below that level with a machine before.

Check your PM also

TIO

[None of the above]

Keef..............

Thanks for your reply in post #10. Sorry I didn't proffer my thanks more fully in my post of 0738 this AM. Was struggling to make a quick response to SD before heading to work.
I think I need to read up on GRUB as it seems to be more of an art than a science.

Ta from N o t a.

[Mac the Knife]

If anyone is thinking about setting up a fileserver using an oldish box then DO consider FreeNAS - http://www.freenas.org/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=22

"FreeNAS is a free NAS (Network-Attached Storage) server, supporting: CIFS (samba), FTP, NFS, AFP, RSYNC, iSCSI protocols, S.M.A.R.T., local user authentication, Software RAID (0,1,5) with a Full WEB configuration interface. FreeNAS takes less than 32MB once installed on Compact Flash, hard drive or USB key.
The minimal FreeBSD distribution, Web interface, PHP scripts and documentation are based on M0n0wall."

I've got a modest Celeron running FreeNAS as a fileserver at home and its very quick, stable and extremely simple to set up.

:ok:

[Keef]

I think I need to read up on GRUB as it seems to be more of an art than a science.

Actually, it's not at all difficult.

The structure is that there's a folder called "boot" on each logical drive (the home of the relevant distro). In that, there will be various files with config... and initrd... and other such. Those are the "boot-up" stuff.

Under that, there's a folder called "grub" which contains "menu.lst" which lists the boot alternatives and tells the machine how to load each.

Quite often, each new install sets up its own menu.lst with its boot settings and maybe no others. If you edit in the other distros, and their load instructions, the choices will reappear.

The only trick is knowing which logical drive has the boot instruction that you're actually using. Don't try to change the logical drive; just edit in the missing code.