Getting a biz-jet?

[Flypuppy]

The other day I mentioned to my boss/CEO that I was about to start studying for Commercial licence exams, and he asked me about the possibilities of owning and operating a smallish biz jet to get around the European offices that our software company has. Not being particularly au fait with how things work with these things I couldn't give him a straight answer, so I turn to you, trusty PPRuNers to give me some pointers, if at all possible.

What sort of aircraft could be purchased for around $1-1.5 million?

What sort of operating costs would be incurred on an annual basis?

Would it be posible to get something that could get to Atlanta from Rotterdam, with maybe 1 stop en-route?

[Flight Safety]

Flypuppy, my first thought is "nothing in that price range" will do the job you're thinking of.

Possibly an older jet like a Sabre or a Jetstar (TFE-731 equipped), but either one of these would be a maintenance undertaking. I've seen some however that have been well maintained and look great, so they're a possibility I guess.

I understand the Jetstar is a good transatlantic aircraft, but maybe someone with more operational knowledge of this type could confirm that.

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Safe flying to you...

[This message has been edited by Flight Safety (edited 03 April 2001).]

[rick1128]

Flypuppy, Unfortunately there is nothing in your price range that will do Europe to Atlanta one stop. A Jetstar will do it within reason, but it is now a 3+ million USD aircraft. A Sabre will not do it. Most operators with smaller aircraft here in the US generally airline to Europe. If Atlanta is your only US operation, I would give strong consideration to that option. That would give you more flexability in choice of aircraft. It sounds like your boss is leaning toward a jet. However if most of your offices are in western Europe, I would lean toward a King Air. But an early Citation is also a contender.

Annual costs depend on many things. Insurance, taxes, hangarage, required training, number of hours per year, fees, etc. I am not familar enough with European operations to give you a figure. But on taxes, a King Air may be less expensive than a Citation.

Good Luck

[Airking]

Fly,
you´d better charter i´d guess.
Whatever you´re buying, it will be more than 3 Mio, if it has to be a jet. Citation 500/1 coul´d be in your range , but with all the stuff you need (like 8,33KHz radios, RVSM and if commercial TCAS II, DFDR)you can easily end up spending another million.
Be aware of maintenance costs.
If you charter, you´d spend something around 2000 Euros/hour for a Citation 2 or 1500 Euros/hour for a good KingAir B200.
Anyhow, at the planning of a purchase, start analyzing what your needs are :
1.Req.Payload
2.Req.Ranges
3.Req. T/O & LDG field lenghts
4.What can we spend besides purchase price (hourly costs)
5.Are we willing to cope hidden costs ?
(have an engine overhauled that was damaged ages ago can cause a "headache")
You can minimize the risk by buying an Aircraft thats on a maintenance plan (like cescom or stars), but the a/c has to be enrolled already, otherwise its not worth.
6. You can opt for a share with netjets or flexjets.
In my opinion its the cheapest and most flexibel to charter.
Good luck for your exam


[This message has been edited by Airking (edited 04 April 2001).]

[Flight Safety]

AirKing has a good idea in point 6. Being a fractional owner of a jet might be the way to go. In fact that might be your best option for getting into a jet that meets your needs. So I'd seriously look at this option.

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Safe flying to you...

[Flypuppy]

I would like to thank you all for your replies. They have been most useful and informative.

I did a little search on the Jetstar and found a couple of photos which give me the desire to try and persuade the boss he would like one.
http://www.su27flanker.flyer.co.uk/jetstar-2.htm

I suspect if this project ever gets the go ahead it will be fractional ownership.

[F900B]

Hi,

Its my job here is the states along with flying to provide you with the answers you are looking for.

Here are some questions i'd ask your boss.

How many hours you would think you would fly per month/year. This is very important as effects you Annual Fixed Operating Costs. bases on what budget your boss would like set.

What kind of trips does he plan to use the aircraft for.
Where does he intent to fly the aircraft. I.E Paris, Spain, USA ?
How many times does he plan to fly there a month, ?
How many people does he plan to carry aboard the aircraft.

Also a very important point, if you are flying to the states or long haul trips more than short/mid trip, been in a small Aircraft like a Citation 500/I can get very tiring as the cabin is so small. Some of the smaller Citations dont even have a Potty or a lot of baggage room.

And you dont want you boss feeling like he is in a tin can for 8hrs, and cant move arounbd the cabin, the aircraft be sold before you know it.

As for a Jet Star,731 yes they can be bought in your price range, we just bought one from a Government for $800,000, the inspections like a Tank and Plank, Corrosion, Bore Scope, and 25 other inspections and O/Hs, putting the aircraft on MSP, came to a grand total of 2.3million + that did not include Paint and interior.

Its a nice aircraft, but very expensive on Mx costs. Parts somewhat hard to find, and remember you got 4 engines to take care of.
Not cheap by todays aircraft.

An aircraft you may consider is a
Westwind I/II here is why.

Cabin height is 5.0ft
Typical pax seats 7
Volume (cu ft) cabin baggage 323 vs Ciation 500, 208 (cu ft)
Certified Aft is 45,000ft / .80M top speed
Range (NM) seats full, tanks full. 2100nm

Direct Operating cost, from Take off to Landing $1,112 per hour

Annual Fixed Operating Costs ( incl Pilots Salaries and benefits, hangar, insurance, training and refurbishment. $260,000

Annual Operating Budget/ Hours/year
(Based on 174,000nm per year, assumes 600nm trips from take off to landing)
$794,000 flying 447hrs per year.

You could get a good Westwind for about $2.0million they where made from 1979 to 1987

I can give you some advise on Advantages and Disadvantages on Sole vs fractional ownership.
The above is just for guildline only, help you in the right direction. Like i said it really comes down to what makes financial sence vs how many hours per yr, where you flying to. If your only flying to the states 1 once a month why not stick to the airlines, but if you flying there 3 to 5 times more then its some things to look into.

Let me know if i can help you with anything, be more than happy to.

Thanks

Robert