Would Type Rating Help?

[12 o Clock]

Hi,
just wondering if anybody out there can offer some advice or help. I am doing the usual rounds of trying to get the first job. I am low houred with 340 ish total with 70 multi and 30 single engine turbine.

Am I being foolish in considering a type rating? I would be willing to type rate in order to find a position but my question is: would a prospective employer look at my application any differently? or would I just go into the low hours pile of CV's irregardless?

Many Thanks in advance

[J32/41]

Best thing to do is call all the operators and ask them. "If I got a type rating would there be a job at the end of it"

Have you tried getting some air taxi work on a PA34/PA31 to get your hours up then moving up the ladder from there?

:)

[12 o Clock]

Thanks J32/41

I am in the process of sending out a letter to operators to ask just that as it is very difficult to get them on the phone.
Most of the airtaxi companies I have spoken to require a min of 700 hrs for SP IFR on an AOC, so really I need to pick up a P2 Position hence the Type Rating idea

Cheers

[J32/41]

I wouldn't bother with letters to be honest, really try to get someone on the phone.

If you want any contacts PM me.

:)

[12 o Clock]

Thanks its really appreciated PM on the way:)

[FLEXJET]

Applying to an OPS/Dispatch job within an airline, whatever its size, may well make you "loose" a few months but at the end you may secure a F/O job before paying for your type.

[12 o Clock]

Thanks Flexjet the thought had crossed my mind. Its a good way to get to know people.
Cheers

[Flintstone]

Paying for a type rating:hmm:

Pretty emotive subject. There are those that say doing so is yet another nail in the coffin of this profession. The first person that did this has a lot to answer for. It was the start of a slippery slope greased by those who followed in his steps.

It's a sad truth that many feel obliged to buy a rating to get a job. Employers love it of course but not all insist.

To be honest with your level of experience you might want to take up the suggestion of air taxi work on light twins for a while. More and more companies are expanding their fleets to include turine or jet aircraft and at least if they bond you there's no outlay from you.

[FLEXJET]

Paying for a type is the cost of freedom my dear Flinstone.
What if you are "offered" a type and then discover the job is awful? You'll most likely have to reimburse the type while running, not easy...

[Chippie Chappie]

Then you can pay to leave :} If it's the option between DEFINITELY paying $20,000ish or MAYBE paying $20,000, I'll take the maybe paying anyday.

Seriously though... MAYBE, I repeat MAYBE if you have a firm job offer at the end of it. But, to pay for a type-rating on spec with those hours is just about as close to sheer lunacy as you can get. Desperation is one thing, but foolishness is another. Keep banging on doors is the oldest but probably the best advice you will get.

Good luck,

Chips

[12 o Clock]

Thanks guys all comments well appreciated.
It is a very emotive subject and believe me no one hates the idea of self funding a type rating more than me. It does mean a trip back to the bank which I so can't afford. I have always been of the school of thought that if someone is willing to sarcrifice to obtain the license and associated ratings, than the least a prospective employer can do once they are satisfied that you fit the company profile, is to offer further training on their equipment. Bonding is a sensible way of protecting their investment and I don't think there is a pilot out there who would refuse to sign such an agreement.

However, the problem is that any jobs out there at present that I have seen, all require a type rating and it seems that without one there is very little chance of getting the first right seat. I have even heard from a friend of mine that one company offered him a job !!! they would pay for the type rating.... and he would have to work for nothing until the rating was paid off and get this..... he still would have had to sign a three year bond!!!! needless to say he didn't take them up on their offer

It just seems to me that operators can do what they like at the moment and until the demand for pilots increases, they are in a position to say what they will and won't do.

So to end, I don't want to pay for a TR but I may very well end up having to, but under no circumstances would I do so without a signed offer of employment.

[Flintstone]

Price of freedom? Nonsense. If a job turns out not to be as advertised who is to blame? Not the pilot.

[portsharbourflyer]

A number of you keep recommending air taxi work for this low houred guy, to do air taxi work you need 700 total time with at least 40hrs p1 multi. So to get to obtain 700hours total time consider instructing (instructors rating £ 5000 ). Once at 700 hours ; then 40 p1 multi IFR will be required to get an air taxi job, the price of obtaining this multi time on the cheapest time building scheme where the hours are recongnised under JAA rules is £3000, include another 1000 for travel expense and such forth, so in the long run you will spend about 8000pounds on top a frozen ATPL to get into air taxi work. You could get a JAA approved citation rating in the US for 8000to 10000 pounds, so is paying for a type rating really any different to paying for the multi time you need to get an air taxi job.

[Dried ears]

Excellent point Portsharbourflyer. Which would be most likely to secure him a job? I rather think the air taxi route rather than put my money on a 340 houred pilot with a Jet rating and no time on type finding a job, but I don't know how things are recruitment wise at the moment.

[Dumbledor]

12 o Clock

PM for you

D

[Flying Farmer]

Having gone the safety/second pilot route in to Air Taxi work a few thoughts for you.
The guys I worked for for a while, actually required in excess of 1000 hours total time and a considerable amount more than the bare 40 hours multi to get a left seat job flying the chieftain.
I have also heard from other sources that the biggest problem when coming from an instructors background to flying single pilot IFR is passing the Base check. Believe me folks its not a walk in the park and many guys just don't have the skills.
Single pilot IFR work is going to be the hardest flying you ever get to do. I don't think that 700 hours can really prepare you for it, unless you have considerable actual IFR time under your belt.
My advice would be to find some safety/ second pilot work and make yourself available at the drop of a hat. The pay is pityfull but the experience you gain will be priceless.
The plus side is you get positioning legs, your multi time builds and if you can cut it in the real IFR world the next Captain to leave for the Airlines might just be replaced by you! :ok:

[12 o Clock]

Hi All Thanks for the imput.

Having spoken to some operators, and I stress some!!! they are not really that interested in Instructor Hours due to the kind of flying that is involved......... Please don't shoot the messenger, their words not mine !!!

Dumbledor, Many thanks for the PM I'll give it a shot and let you know what happens.

Again thanks for the helpful stuff folks

[pruneguest]

I just got hired to be a G-100 SIC. The company is sending me to FSI for initial training with the caveat that I will not take the type rating check at the end of the course. (They are offering upgrade training and the type rating as an incentive to stay for a second year)

I noted in CFR 61.55(3) that " the appropriate pilot type rating" is required unless the flight is domestic...within US airspace.

The company plans to fly to Canada from the US - will I need the full up type rating for this, or does "appropriate" mean that I will need a SIC type if there is such a thing?

FYI - I got the job by networking at my local airport. The chief pilot of the 135 operation there is the local match maker and keeps tabs on all of the goings on. As people move up and on, it creates vacancies at the bottom. I am a soon to be retired AF "non pilot" crewmember, who just kept plugging along with CFI work until the vacancy came up as I was retiring. Where there's a will, there's a way!

[portsharbourflyer]

Currently fogged in at the airfield, so I have spare time on my hands. Just one comment is Flying Farmer I have noted your comments and I wouldn't dispute them. However most entry level "hour building" jobs are going to involve single engine VFR flying (aerial photgraphy, glider towing, para dropping or instructing), so there are very few opportunities to build IFR flying hours bar flying at your own expense, in truth the time your most likely to stand a chance of passing a multi engine IFR base check is probably the day after the initial IR test (which at that point most of us have only 250 hours).

The only other way of obtaining the IFR time is of course IMC instructing, which involves paying about another 1200 - 1500 to do the IRI course to get the "no applied instrument restriction" removed, so add in further cost to the figures I quoted earlier.

Last year nearly all air taxi operators use to ask for a 1000 hours with 250 multi, this year I have now seen several adverts where they will accept the minimum 700 total with 100 multi with (40 multi p1), again FF you are probably correct just because you have this time doesn't necessarily mean you meet the standard.

The system is flawed as someone with 500 hours and 300 multi IFR cannot be insured for single pilot ops, but a pilot with 700 hours with only 40 multi p1 could be.

Anyway FF, I would be intrigued to hear more of your experiences of Safety Pilot work, as it looks as though I may have an opportunity to do such work this autumn.