Income protection insurance

[exflyboy]

Hi there everybody,

Just thought I'd chime in with a quick post re insurance. I just want to encourage everyone no matter your age or current state of health to take some extra form of insurance. I have recently left CX due to poor health and have had no end of problems with Topcover. They have caused us no end of grief and really in my opinion have no intention of paying out on my policy. Get a good insurance company. It will be expensive but trust me it is something I am kicking myself for not doing now. Don't leave it until you need it. Do it now.

All the best


EFB:ok:

[FlexibleResponse]

Get a good insurance company.

Topcover no good? I spent a lot of money on these guys hoping they would look after me if things went bad. Are you saying they are a bunch of crap and don't supply the product that they advertise they will sign up to?

Fortunately I never needed their services. But, if I spent a lot of money to folks that were a bunch of crooks, I would like to take an exception here.

We need to be very careful...

What is your situation (in general terms) and what advice would you offer to anyone on a Topcover Policy or to anyone who might consisder buying such a Policy?

[exflyboy]

I had the very basic $2000US a month cover. I have been ill since Feb 2005. Claim went in over a year ago and they are still stalling. Just be very careful of exclusion clauses, and be prepared for them to not return e-mails for weeks, misundersand e-mails when you send them and generally dawdle at every opportunity. At the first mention of me seeking legal advice to speed things up I was flicked to their lawyers. It is obviously their standard procedure. Remember this is INCOME PROTECTION. I should have received the payout from day 1 of me not being paid my full salary. One year later I have not seen a cent.

[FlexibleResponse]

I think our posts crossed...

Sick since Feb 2005?

exflyboy, have you received any income protection payout since that time?

What is the point of these guys if they don't come to the party when the chips are down?

[exflyboy]

Not a cent, and will probably have to go to court to get anything.

[FlexibleResponse]

Bugger! Sorry to hear that exflyboy.

I wonder if Topcover do insurance for pilots outside Hong Kong?

I would say caveat emptor to anyone on Topcover!

[Humber10]

Can anyone give me any info on prefsure? I would like to know if anyone has had any dealings with them and what the outcome was. I am also interested in what other companies have been like to deal with in regards to claims. Any recomendations for HK based crew.
cheers

[Dan Winterland]

exflyboy, your story sounds familiar. A mate had a problem which was quite obviously going to ground him. Topcover did their best to stall him and it took two years and legal action to get payment.

One of their stalling tactics was to ask him to produce his last five years worth of medical certificates. I now keep mine!

[exflyboy]

They pulled exactly the same stunt with me. Asking for a copy of everything but my birth certificate. These people are crooks and they really need to be read the riot act. Either look after us or we find someone who will. I have not heard of anyone who has not had problems with Topcover when it comes to paying out. They will go to the absolute extreme to avoid payment.

[BYMONEK]

Greetings from the sandpit

Don't often venture 'this far East' but as an Emirates Pilot it's worth reading this particular thread. We too use TopCover here and are about to change the Broker. The main concern though is obviously not with the broker but the insurance Company itself. The policy will be due for renewal within the next month or so and i'm now seriously re-considering my position after reading these posts.

We do have another scheme which was set up by our own Pilots club and appears to be a good scheme. Pays from US$6800 up to max $9500 every month until normal retirement age. Unbiased feedback from anyone in the know would be greatly appreciated. This could be passed onto others to avoid tears later! As an aside, thought that you had to wait a full year anyway before the payments kick in?

Thanks in advance

BYMONEK

[dartman2]

Topcover also changed the cover from nominal retirement age to a maximum of 5 years (and significantly increased the premium at the same time). I believe that this change occured at EK and CX.

[exflyboy]

It doesn't really matter that they've reduced the cover to 5 years. It MAY AS WELL BE 5 mins because they don't pay anyway. Like I said, a bunch of crooks. I advise anyone in TOPCOVER TO SEEK ANOTHER INSURER.

[puff m'call]

Thanks for that exflyboy, just received a handout from Topover and was thinking about using them, well it's now in the bin without even looking at it!

Where do I get LIPS info here at EK?

[Two Cocks]

Go the prefsure way!!!!

See the post on financial planning to check out Kevin McGlynn and his team. Contact details are all there.

They off income protection until age 55 and lots of other stuff. Ask them about it.

Yes it is expensive (depending on age, income etc....) Mine was about HK$14000 pa.


Check them out

[rhoshamboe]

Mate, it's not much good having own occupation cover if they're not going to pay you out now is it??

[insurance_pedant]

I'm interested; on what grounds are the insurers declining / delaying your claim?

I_P

[Flying Bagel]

Bondslipper, you sound more like an insurance salesman rather than a pilot. Having a sly dig at the pilot in question makes your opinion less than respectable.

If you want to convince me to use Topcover, use some convincing arguments. Being the biggest insurer in the world doesn't mean the best, often it may just mean that they screw the most people to get there.

[Numero Crunchero]

Why are we so willing to hear both sides of an aircraft incident rather than 'armchair quarterbacking' but are so ready to assume the worst in this case? I have been involved in my past work with the AOA with insurance...I can assure you much due diligence is put in!

I have heard of one case of someone not getting paid out by Topcover...he refused to see any CX dr or any dr recommended by topcover insisting on using his drs only. Apparently his ailment was non physical. He has not asked for any LoL from cx either...not sure if this has anything to do with anyone on this thread...just pointing out there are usually two sides to every story!

Like bondslipper suggests, contact your union to find out who have been reliable payers. WHilst I agree that coverage to 55 can be advantageous vs 5 years, a high payout for 5 years may be equal to say 10 or 15 years at a lower payout for a similar cost(in my case). Keep an open mind...in hkg, see Kevin mcglynn, check out topcover, talk to others and make up your own mind. For god's sake do not be swayed by baseless rantings on PPRUNE.

[exflyboy]

Not helpful pal, please don't towt your "due dilligence" here. Try and tell your story to my wife and kids that now have to go without many things! I have absolute clinical evidence of my illness backed up by some of the best Dr's in the world and they still delay. They are crooks. End of story. I hope you don't become ill as your faith in Topcover will sadly disappoint.

[Rod Von Eddington]

Sorry exflyboy,
I have difficulty taking you serious, you are complaining about Topcover, but you actually didn't sign up for any real coverage. The 2000 USD per month that the AOA pays for is nice and a start, but it's peanuts and not going to pay your living expenses anyway.
If you were serious about a loss-of-income protection insurance, then you would have checked out other options, and very quickly found out that this is as good as it gets. Then the thing to do, is to top it up to get some coverage that you can actually live off. I have personally topped mine up to a 9,125 USD monthly coverage. Yes, it only covers for 5 years, but hopefully that should be enough time to sort ones life out and start doing something else.

[Mr. Hat]

G'day from Oz. Quick question as i'm new to the insurance thing.

Can you get insurance that will cover you in the case you lose you job due to company going under or say you fail a check or something like that?
Does income protection insurance only cover medical related issues?

Any info greatly appreciated.

[exflyboy]

Thanks for the information re your situation. Havn't quite figured out why you went to the trouble of telling me this? Thanks also for your sympathetic view. I only hope "MATE" that you never have to use your insurance.

[Two Cocks]

bondslipper

Your post saying that

"Prefsure which is not a pilot specific own occupation policy, but a generic policy designed for plumbers, dentists and everyone else."

is not correct. My policy states own occupation. If I can't work as a pilot then they pay out. I made sure of this when I signed the paper work.

As a aussie/kiwi the payout is 75% of my total salary. ie Salary + Housing. Which over the next few years will be fantastic. Only drawback is that you have to move to aussie/kiwi land to get the payout. In other countries the payout is not as much as I understand (Could be mistaken here).

Talk to Financial Partners about all that you require. For me it works really well.

[FlexibleResponse]

Bondslipper said:
The TopCover policy specifically insures you against illnesses / injuries that make you unable to fly. However there are some exclusions; the main ones being certain 'specified illnesses' ( these are mental illnesses) and 'non-specified illnessess'.

I found these exclusions rather amusing! They seem to cover just about everything...

Rod Von Eddington said:
The 2000 USD per month that the AOA pays for is nice and a start, but it's peanuts and not going to pay your living expenses anyway....I have personally topped mine up to a 9,125 USD monthly coverage.
If they won't pay the basic $2000 to another member, why on earth would anyone pay the premiums on $9,125? More fool me?

I would be a lot more comfortable if TopCover revealed how many CX Pilots had successfully claimed on this type Policy (or otherwise failed) before I threw money again into this type of black hole. Of course, that information would be shrouded in secrecy. Perhaps a few quiet words around the AOA might provide the answers?

[exflyboy]

Thanks flex for your backup, these sort or flippant uninformed responses(rod and friends) just make me angry. You are kidding yourself Rod if you think "topping up" is going to save you any more grief than what I'm going through. As flex said, "more fool you".

[Numero Crunchero]

exflyboy
have you got paid out your Loss of License from CX?

[FlexibleResponse]

I am pilot. If I suffer from hearing loss in one ear and lose my pilot licence for medical reasons, will this policy pay me income benefits to age 55??

And this is precisely where we came in! The very first successful claim against the very first income protection provider for CX pilots and the AOA paid "Capt Australia" his loss of income protection exactly for this illness (although in his case I believe he had hearing deficiency in both ears).

Since that time, it seems that a bunch of crooks and charletons have invaded the pitch and are now intent on stealing pilots' money without any intent of ever paying out a claim against themselves.

Caveat emptor indeed! I say screw the pilot income protection insurance industry and the horse they rode in on.

[aviatorguy]

I think what he means is that the policy is open to many different trades(plumber, shearer, doctor etc), but the payout is supposed to occur if they can't do their own occupation (i.e. plumb, shear, practise medicine).

[Rice Pudding]

Besides the obvious 5 year restriction, topcover now have exclusions for racing and recreational flying. This means go-karts, and your own cessna.

I do a moderate amount of recreational flying - as do many of us, so bear in mind that you will have no cover for this.

[FlexibleResponse]

Some years ago we had an exceptional explorer and also CX pilot killed in a crash in Antartica on an exploration mission in an ultralight. They wouldn't cover his family for the loss of his life, let alone loss of licence and earnings. Thank heavens the AOA came to the rescue of his family with immediate financial assistance.

Double-screw the insurance industry and the horse they rode into town on.