REX Drop Minimum's

[TurbineDreamer]

Just saw on their website that they have dropped the req'd hours.
I think a week or so ago they were:

1500 Total
500 Twin

Now;
• Minimum of 1000 hours total flight time
• Minimum of 450 hours command or ICUS flight time on multi-engine aircraft under the I.F.R

[wrongwayaround]

the checking people (NOTE I DIDN'T SAY TRAINING!) are failing young guys left, right and centre.

check people are probably too good to speak to HR department. HR department thinks..... "Duuuhhh, Uhm, no applicants, drop minimums" :ok:

[KRUSTY 34]

Coupla' weeks ago, management type says to very senior Captain. "We will park aeroplanes before we drop min requirements."

Yeah right!!

N.F.I.

[Erin Brockovich]

These companies seem to do everything in their power except increase T & Cs to attract and retain crews.

The race is on! Who will be the first one to crack and increase the pay?

This new recruiting sport is starting to get interesting :ok:

[The Kavorka]

Management at this company are extremley narrow minded...
Do they think by dropping min's ths will help their problem:=:=
There are just not enough pilots in flying schools who can replace the ones leaving and hanging up the boots..
The number of new pilots to be hired at a rough guess i'd say would be
Virgin 300-400 in the next 3-5 years
Jetstar 400-600 in the next 3-5 years
Qantas 200-300 in next 5 years
Tiger possibly 100-200 in next 2-3 years (all going well)
Emirates...sky's the limit
Etihad 50-100 maybe
Cathay 50-100
Regionals...heaps......
The list goes on....ASIA???

REX and QANTASLINK are in deep trouble.....
I'm going to open up an a/c carpark and make a fortune.....

REX has to pay more now to even get close to retaining half of the crews they will require....and even that won't help....
I must admit I have little symapathy for the managment, they have screwed the flight crews for too long with crap pay and conditions and now it's time for revenge!!!!!:D:D

[Super 64]

You expect us to trust the predictions of a man who has 'the lure of the animal' ;)

S64

[TurbineDreamer]

The Kavorka

Where do you get your figures from?

[The Kavorka]

Turbine Dreamer

Figures are from no where specific, just having an educated guess..

Do the math on Virgin...pilots leaving.fact...new a/c coming.fact = pilot recruitment, 15 e jets = 200 pilots approx

jetstar 9 320's, 4 330's, 15 787's = 350 pilots approx

Get the picture!!!!

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Don't worry Jetfume, i'm sure Rex will make an exception and allow you to buy your Saab endorsement.

[Track Direct]

Rex appear to be in deep sh*t trying to attract/retain crew :E

Why on earth would anyone consider paying for a type rating with them:ugh:

[Bendo]

Rex do not charge for your endorsement- You are, however, bonded for 2 years to the tune of (I think) $15,000 decreasing pro-rata.

That would hardly cover their cost in the Sim, I would think.

Cheers

[VelvetHammer]

FP Ace,
You will find that The Kavorka has the numbers right.

The combinations could be altered but these crewing figures are actually on the lean side of the requirements of the airlines. Nor does it include 4 Brand name Asian airlines who are currently running 400 jet pilots short betwwen them and working their staff at max hours which is not sustainable.

For the last twenty years the challenges of supply and demand have always been the same. Whether the pilots have any currency is not as a result of their lobbying or union pressure, but events well beyond their control. Examples of these would be:The introduction of wide body aircraft on routes traditionally operated by smaller jets, changes in the economy, International disease, advances in aircraft manufacturing techniques, etc.

At the moment Australian pilots are basking in the effect of five major factors: The delay in the introduction of the A380, an unsuccessful EBA at Virgin, a local economy which is being sustained by a resources demand which has lasted longer than anticipated, a global economy which is presently at an unprecedented level of bouyancy and an ongoing profitable war in Iraq. Unusual events, the combination of which have not occurred for a very long time. The local effect is a share market and real estate market both on the up when they normally alternate. So there is lots of cash available, people gaining pay rises and unprecedented "success" all around us.

So why aren't pilot pays going up? Were you aware that the American banking industry studied every registered airline in the world and found that between 1974 and 2000 not one cent profit was made by the industry? The profits just keep changing hands. It's a difficult industry.

Given the long lead times in aircraft manufacturing, the juggling of an individual operators desire to expand (perhaps buying new aircraft to do so) with the commercial pressures of maintaining a profitable company in a dynamic economic environment, it is hardly surprising that a short term events such as a pilot shortage occur from time to time. But these too will pass.

Rather than us all complining that the companies are not delivering lotto-like pay increases perhaps we should be considering which aircraft type is going to be in the greatest demand over the next 10 years and position ourselves into the left hand seat of it. That way we have the best chance of a sustainable roster and income.

I realise that this is beyond the scope of your point but I felt that it was appropriate given the general lack of understanding in the thread.
And yes crewing on many jets is still at 10 crews per aircraft. It is entirely dependent on the route structure, rostering practices and regulatory requirements.
:)

[Capn Bloggs]

Do you honestly suggest that these days Airlines still recruit 10+ Pilots per plane
5 crews a jet? Err yes. Sounds quite normal to me. One jet flies 4000hr a year. One crew does 800hr per year. That's 5 crews. If the crew does 900hrs a year, that's 4 and a bit crews, 9 pilots per jet with no slack at all.

[wrongwayaround]

Velvet.

A very good and accurate post indeed.

You have it.... rightwayaround :ok:

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

FP Ace. Jetstar will be recruiting about another 400 to 450 by 2010.

These are actual figures!!

DM

[The Kavorka]

Velvet..Top post

My figures were an estimate deirived from speking to many people in different airlines, also if you look at recruitment agencies such as Rishworth, Parc and the numerous others I do believe the figures stack up..
Another interesting fact is after looking at the QF seniority list there seems to be a large number of pilots on the wrong side of 55, therefore meaning a large number of retirements also due...
Good Times Ahead for every one i feel...

[KRUSTY 34]

FP_Ace,

How long have you been in the game mate?

A fatigue managers wetdream may be 8 pilots per aircraft, but industry norms are between 10 & 12 for reliable RPT ops. Any less and you are setting yourself up for disaster.

By the way, if you wish to be taken seriously, try buying a dictionary.

[Howard Hughes]

So where do I sign up for a 787 rating?;)

[Howard Hughes]

Might have to book into India, might be a little cheaper...;)

[an3_bolt]

The Kavorka,

Inside information has CX recruitment at 180 pilots per year at least for the next couple of years.
Source: straight from recruitment.

[wethereyet]

Any truth that Virgin is no longer charging for the job? Hearing it a bit around the traps in the past week, but not found anything official. Thought it would be a hot topic with it's own thread?

Sounds like they may have a good supply of guys who were not willing to buy a job.

If this is true Rex had better make some urgent short term adjustments to the existing EBA.

[KRUSTY 34]

wethereyet

heard the same rumour about 3 days ago, but thought it strange nothing on prune.

Made a few enquiries, and the unofficial goss is that it has been approved and an announcement may be imminent?

If I were a betting man, I would say that they are finishing up the latest round of recruits before dropping the bomb shell.

Then watch out! REX's official attrition rate of 20% will go through the roof.

Not like we didn't warn 'em.

[Geared trim tab]

Dropping Minimums to attract more Pilots.
With a soaring profit surely there's now money which could be used to retain Pilots.

[404 Titan]

Geared trim tab

Senior management and the boards responsibility is to the shareholders not the staff. Therefore they will make sure that is where the soaring profits go, of course leaving a little bit for themselves as a bonus.

[Track Direct]

Wethereyet

The VB rumour remains strong and appears to be correct:ok:

My sources also tell me, Jet* will rapidly follow suit, newbies will be bonded instead of upfront type rating cost:hmm:

It seems the bean counters will still extract the cash from you, one way or another:ugh:

[Track Direct]

With a soaring profit surely there's now money which could be used to retain Pilots.

Now there's a great idea:ok:.....sadly management will never entertain a simple concept to address retention !:ugh:

Staff will therefore continue to vote with their feet ! :D

[mention1]

Have heard some interesting figures recently for ya...

Approx 40 pilots have left VirginBlue this year alone.

They are gearing up for 12 pilots per month for whenever.
94 flights cancelled in Feb due crew shortage.

Announcment about not paying for endorsment scheduled for July, expect serious bond and training wage.

Some Rex pilots interested but only if endorsement fee dropped.

Rex management think that the annual bonus will appease pilots but really its gets taxed to bu&&ery so no real help. Conditions are the way to go if they want to retain. Think min-rest-overnights, bidding etc

[Dixondik]

Rex management can do an aweful lot with $17 mil, things look up for the company with that profit announcement, better SAABs coming in (1 every 5 weeks), shares doing better than DJ etc. Shame they wont notice it.

I reckon they should put 4 mil aside, give hard working staff (not bludgers like some in rex) pay rises, enhance services and work hard at it to piss the stinking red rat out of the airways.....chances of that happening = nil :(

[The Kavorka]

Better SAAB....isnt that a contridiction in terms.....

I belive REX are going to be in serious trouble if VB and JQ offer bonds or the like for new hires...every REX and Eastern pilot would apply for sure....

They can jam their profit share, the poor FO's only get a percentage of the main share anyway...probably around $2500, sure that'l make them stay.....:=

[KRUSTY 34]

And the hits just keep on com'n.

Recently REX sent a personal message to the suitable applicants it has on file.

All 129 of them!

40 failed to respond.

20 said "No thanks I have a better offer elsewhere"

That leaves 69 "available". This assuming that they take up the offer, are able to pass the interview process, and can be successfuly checked to line.

With the expected attrition conservatively put at 60 by years end, well you do the math!

Forget about any further expansion. The 25 "new" Saabs to be delivered over the next 2 years are supposed to cover a fleet expansion of 15 aircraft. That alone will require an additional 150 pilots!

Can anyone in management see a problem here?

The only thing that will save REX is a substantial increase in T&C's. Nothing less that a 40% payrise will have any real effect. And don't tell me they can't afford it. It will add up to approx $4.50 a ticket!

The alternative, do nothing, and as I said you do the math.

[aussie027]

All the regional airlines here in the United States are also experiencing a shortage of pilots.
They are losing pilots who are moving on to the majors, those that are currently hiring new staff, and not rehiring pilots still on furlough, of which there are approximately 8000.
Many are also leaving because they simply cannot afford to live on, what is basically a minimum wage.

The regionals have drop their hiring minimums here, from what used to be a pretty standard 1200 total and 200 multi engine minimum, to less than 500 total and 50 multi engine, and most can still not get enough. successful applicants to fill classes.

Most of the people taking these jobs are new pilots who have recently been instructing, as a result, most flying schools are now desperate for flight instructors, as most of them are all moving on to the regional airlines as soon as they have the above minimums.
Some regional airlines still fly 19 seat turboprop's, such as Beach 1900's but most fly Brazilia's or Saab's, in conjunction with a large percentage of Canadair and Embraer Regional Jets. Many regionals only fly RJ's.

There are almost a thousand regional jobs available here every month, nationwide, and despite struggling to fill classes, management at all these airlines have done absolutely nothing in the past two or three years since hiring began again in earnest in this country to increase wages beyond their current levels, which will see the first year FO's flying a regional jet, earning less than 20,000 US dollars a year.
That 20,000 US dollars a year is the same as earning $20,000 a year Australian, forget exchange rates as a dollar here buys as little as a dollar in Australia.
Pilots are usually faced with living in in very expensive cities, and on that money cannot pay rent, insurance and, and food for themselves, let alone anything else.

Pilots such as myself who are presently unemployed, and have close to 3000 hours total time simply cannot afford to work for what effectively works out at just above minimum wage, when total duty hours per month are taken into account.

The salary of these airlines even after two to three years still remains below $30,000 per year, and in some regional airlines it can take five to six years before getting command, at which time the salary is still only approximately $40,000.

Every regional airline in this country could easily afford to pay every flight crew captain and first officer, a combined total of more than $50,000 a year on top of what they are currently being paid. If they simply raise the cost of a ticket by $1-$2.
Sadly, as is the case in Australia, as I have been reading on many threads on this forum, management is simply only interested in profit margins, their own salaries and bonuses and treat their most valuable employees, their crews and maintenance staff, as if they are liabilities instead of assets.

If some other pilot loss figures mentioned in the above posts are correct, it is apparent that that REX and many other Australian airlines will not have sufficient crews to staff all flights as is already occurring at virgin blue, Jet Star and some others.

It is ridiculous to think of highly trained and skilled professionals such as ourselves, who have millions of dollars worth of equipment and dozens or hundreds of passengers lives in our hands every day are treated so shabbily by management at companies throughout the world.

If other highly skilled and trained professionals who have spent a fortune on their self education such as doctors and lawyers were faced with similar terms and conditions, after completing basic training, let alone more advanced courses, then without a doubt, there would also be a dire shortage worldwide of doctors and lawyers and other highly skilled professionals. As we all know there is certainly not a shortage of doctors and lawyers in most places in the US or Australia had no shortage of people signing up at university to study in these fields. Many people who have no particular passion for either one of these fields, for example, primarily enter them for the financial rewards usually on offer.

[Icarus53]

My info from QF is that the rough quota is 300 over the next 2 years! We know that they are about to start with the first hires since early last year, but now the race is on.

After that is anyone's guess, but with a minimum 85 new a/c continuing to arrive and the retirement of all the 65 yo Captains, I can't see that rate slackening off in the short term. Another thread also suggests the expansion of the cadet program, but I'm pretty sure that's not going to be anough to plug all the gaps at QLink!

[The Kavorka]

Krusty

The news spreads fast...
I heard that management had a crisis meeting regarding pilot numbers and out of the 129 applications on file only 20 were possible new hires...
All if not most had already got into other airlines....

Suffer I say, a lot of mates of mine missed out on REX for who knows what reason..... :ugh::ugh: They will soon be very short.......This really could be the begining of the end of them......
Paying the pilots more now is too late the horse has bolted....

Every pilot in this country who was treated like crap in GA and regionals like REX can soon have the last laugh....!!!!

[Dixondik]

This bond that DJ and JQ are coming up with....is it really a bond or type of 'loan'. Last time I went to school, a bond is where one pays in full to receive that money back at the end of the products usage? Can someone shed some light?

[JUZ777]

A-firm Dixondik...... and just think, many actually think they dont have to pay:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}

[DUXNUTZ]

ok, so copied that there is not endorsement cost met by the employee at REX. Do they bond you for a certain time or what?

Interested as i would really like to work for REX and out of the loop.

[Dixondik]

DUXNUTZ

To my knowledge Rex doesn't charge for the SAAB endorsement. Well, for now....

[KRUSTY 34]

DUXNUTZ,

Great handle by the way.

REX does not charge for endorsement, training etc.., but you will be bonded to the tune of $15k pro-rated over 2 years. ei: Leave after 12 months and you will owe $7.5K.

Mind you, If you have the mins for REX, you may like to wait 5 mins and go directly to one of the majors. Word around is that the abolition of the pay for your own rating at these carriers is just around the corner.

The Kavorka,

I'm afraid mate you may well be right. If it is only 20 that are suitable then it is worse than I thought.

The official attrition rate is approx 20%. Once the large number of current pilots who have been given start dates in AUG & SEPT give their required minimun notice, that rate will go through the roof!

I can't believe that they (management) are still saying everything is OK!

[Dixondik]

Rex arn't short of pilots, they are just short of 'pilot hours' (sound familiar) hence the concern.....:}

[DUXNUTZ]

Thanx Krusty!

Had no idea about the 2 years but much prefer the bond. I think if they upped the pay to match Qlink i wouldn't even hesitate.

As it stands i have the bare mins for everyone (1000 hrs multi-crew turbine but only 500hrs as PIC) but realise Virgin etc can cherry pick the cream of the crop so happy to wait. Don't know who can afford 30k for an endorsement. I have the opportunity to interview for an E-170 gig (USA) so might do that to get some time on type for when they come dunnunda.

[WarmNuts]

looks like minimums have dropped again

We require all applicants to possess the following:
• Australian Commercial Pilot Licence (with ATPL theory credits) or Australian Air Transport Pilot Licence
• Command Multi Engine Instrument Rating
• Civil Aviation Safety Authority Class 1 medical certificate
• Minimum of 800 hours total flight time
• Minimum of 350 hours command or ICUS flight time on multi-engine aircraft under the I.F.R
• Australian citizen or permanent residence status.

http://www.rex.com.au/Jobs/JobDetail.aspx?jid=10

[wrongwayaround]

But no mention of salary increases?


*Oops, no way? I didn't really entertain the thought of a salary increase??

[Under Dog]

After they have raped the lower end of GA where to then.


The Dog

[The Kavorka]

Interesting times ahead....

Regionals taking low time guys, drying GA up.....

Looks like a pilot shortage.....finally:ok:

The next REX EBA will be very intersting, now the JQ and VB hiring like never before and no endorsment cost up front....

I think REX are in serious strife, with no obvious answer..

[KRUSTY 34]

TK

Of course we all know what the answer is.

Unfortunately management will not even contemplate it untill it is too late. Too late, (if it hasn't come already) may now be only be a matter of weeks rather than months!

Forget waiting for the EBA, It'll be all over by then. Unless management take the initiative and make REX a viable alternative to the others, they are well and truely screwed!

I can be done, but the reality is that it should have been commenced 6 months ago.

I know I've said it before, but nothing less than a 40% payrise will do it, anything less and they are just kidding themselves. That will equate to approx $65K base for the average F/O & $105K for a Capt. Certainly not unreasonable in todays climate.

But no, they put the entire operation in jeapody rather than attempt to retain experienced personel. They will put at risk all the hard work done over the past 5 years, and knuter the most profitable regional airline in the country.

For what?

$4.30 a ticket!

[aussie027]

Krusty you're absolutely right!!
The stupid regional airlines here in the USA are also doing the same thing, taking pilots with no flight experience , now down to almost bare commercial and instrument rating levels to fly turbo props, and especially regional jets and all the while paying minimum wage. All because they are too cheap and too stubborn to raise the price of a ticket one to three US dollars which would enable them to pay an FO approximately $50,000 a year first-year and increase the captain's salary by 20,000 a year as well. As I have said on some previous posts on other threads, first-year FO's make approximately 1500 to less than 2000 US dollars per month to fly a regional jet (When they finally get off reserve) in some of the world's most complex and busy air space.

I have wanted to fly jets since I was a little boy, but now after bashing my head against a wall :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: for 25 years in general aviation in two countries to end up yet again, broke and on the unemployment line when I got laid off I am not about to spend thousands of more dollars to relocate to another expensive city to get paid peanuts, and in fact, end up in the red even further than I am now at the end of a full year of full-time employment. So I guess I will never realise my dream of ever getting to fly a jet all because I refuse to be a monkey and work for peanuts.
I am planning on returning to Australia shortly, and if I am unable to secure a job in my hometown, then my flying career, such as it has been will be over permanently. :(:(:(

[Capt Wally]

................it's not an hrs issue anymore here with Rex or any other commercial carrier for that matter it's simply that growth is now outstripping available resources/crew. Still there are numerous pilots out there ( I know of many) that have way beyond these poultry hrs with lots of experience & few ever get a look in never lone a basic interview!

....................their ( Comm carriers) finally getting their just rewards, they've not done their homework by checking & retaining crews by way of decent W&C's and to see if there is actually enough resource out there to cover their expanding requirments.
What goes around comes around, they have left a lot of good drivers out in the cold over the years and not planned for the future.

Capt wally