Question regarding EK pilot representation

[Left Seat]

With no labour laws in the UAE, ( from what I understand ) and no union for the pilot group, council, association or committee ( again, from what I understand ) , who negoitates with the management on your conditions and other interested areas ( ie: jump seat policy, your staff travel policy, all the other things ). ?

[Gillegan]

Nobody negotiates anything. The company gives/pays us the least amount that they think that they can get away with. We can stay or leave.

[sec 3]

My contract here in the UAE states I am entitled to 50 days annual leave per year. Now some of the geniuses in the office have decided that 42 days will be enough for me.Like the skipper's little buddy says, " if you don't like it,leave.":bored:

[Vorsicht]

Well I've been here ten years, and to the best of my knowledge, the EVP of flight operations (and engineering) sits around a table with a few VP's and SVP's of various departments who know nothing about our job, (and get bonus's of several times the magnitude of ours, based largely on how much money they can save from their respective budgets) and decide what is in our best interests.
The real positive out of this is that they have never failed to improve their own position by undermining ours.
As you can imagine, in the face of absolutely no repercussion for their actions/decisions, they feel little need to change the system. Seems to be working fine for them.

[Thylakoid]

There is a Labor Law, but it doesn't cover aviation, specifically.
Unions, or any other kind of employee's association is prohibited by the government. The bosses here decide what is best for us in all areas.:)

[Thylakoid]

Sec3, actually, the Labor Law specifies a minimum of 30 days leave. For the past sixteen years, it has been 42 for EK personnel. Of lately, it is getting more and more difficult for them to give us that.

[ruserious]

Vorsicht, spot on, could not agree more

[BigGeordie]

I think we get 42 days rather than 30 to compensate for the public holidays which we don't get.

[sec 3]

who said I work for EK?:}

[Crinklstein]

I came from a union based company where they fought tooth and nail and would end up with a meagre 3-4% inflation adjustment, whereas here at EK I have had 2 pay increases in 2 years apart from the annual 3% increment. So it is my opinion that while unions are nice, they sometimes cause more problems for the pilot fraternity than they solve.

The U.A.E. does have labour laws that are in place for its' workforce. The success of Dubai is a testament to that labour force and vision of its' leaders. Without morality and law a society crumbles but Dubai on the other hand, has been growing from strength to strength. Sure there are problems and Dubai is not for everyone and i understand your concerns about your general well-being here at EK without a union however, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how things really are up here at EK, which goes beyond these public and sometimes negative forums.

EK has been good to me and I am here for the long-haul.

[145qrh]

Crinklstein, was that a cut and paste from Safar or the Gulf News???

Either way I want whatever you are smokin'....

[ekpilot]

:confused:
Wrinkled and Stoned.
How can you possibly be happy with a situation that reduces your purchasing power year after year while working more and more...?

[MTOW]

Crinklstein, your colleagues at the desks on either side of yours in the EK HR Department, (to say nothing of those at the top), would probably prefer that you exhibit a higher standard of English grammar when you pose as an ‘enlightened’ pilot.

We all know that the majority of ‘mere’ pilots would not be expected to know where to put an apostrophe, but those few, (like the one you’re posing as), who are so incredibly intelligent as to have seen the light and be eternally grateful to all those SVPs and VPs who have sat around their table improving our positions over the years without one iota of consultation might be expected to get their apostrophes right.

Two used in your post, both incorrectly. Oh, and I forgot to mention the semicolon. Not good enough for one so enlightened, I think.

[Vorsicht]

The success of Dubai is a testament to that labour force and vision of its' leaders.

I'm sure that was a mistake. What you meant to say was that the success of Dubai is a testament to the fact that thousands of workers are lied to in their home country, transported to Dubai en-masse to take up any number of positions that bear no resemblance to what they were promised, working 12 hours a day and sometimes 7 days a week for a pittance (the ones that are lucky enough to get paid regularly), have their passport confiscated on arrival so they cant do a runner until their 3 year contract is up and are unable to change jobs, live 14 to a room because either that's all they can afford, or that's what their caring employer puts them in.

"But", I hear you say, "there are labour laws". Employers are not allowed to confiscate passports, workers must rest during the day, minimum pay is legislated.

Yeah Right

Keep Discovering dude.

[EGGW]

Crinklstain Keep smoking that strange stuff man. What brand do you use in ya shisha Habibi http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/aktion/action-smiley-060.gif

EGGW

[dunerider]

Dearest Crinklstein or should that be Captain America.The reason you recieved your 2 pay rises is because people, with more brains than you, obviously have got up and left. Do you honestly think they would give us a payrise unless they absolutley had to? It was a desperate attempt to delay the exodus of pilots that is now occurring.I bet your previous union wouldn't have allowed you to join your previous company as a DEC or in an accellerated command position. I look forward to your comments in another year.

[donpizmeov]

Crinkles,

If you had been here just a little longer you would have also had the 15% cost neutral pay cut as well.

Don

[sandblasted]

Crinkly, open your eyes!!!! look around you. Dubai was mainly built through modern slavery ethics, do you call 25 dhs per day a fair wage for a labourer tied to a 3 year contract :=. I would be ashamed of such practises, you probably miss whats going on around you being the desk pilot that you obviously are!!
If you join any company in the UAE you will have to make adjustments to life changing decisions implemented over night without so much as a communication,as said before if you don't like it leave.....

[ruserious]

you would have also had the 15% cost neutral pay cut as well
Not to mention the
Factoring scam (lies, more lies and even more lies)
Scheduled block hour credit, scam (instead of being paid for actual hours)
Profit share scam (we will give you as little as possible, but still expect you to be grateful)
Leave scam (more than UAE law, so who cares about your contract)
Nobody in this room will be disadvantaged by DEC's :ugh:
Sim duties while sick (coming soon.....)

[barkingboris]

Crinklnotsofine
The rest of the world is rapidly becoming aware of the downside to Dubai and the general exploitation of workers from ALL industries.There are many articles appearing in British newspapers to name a few and the word is OUT..Dubai is not what it appears to be.
On a front closer to home ,ie EK ,the constant changes in rules and regs to suit the company and fill the crewing gaps is going to bite them hard as genuine sick days increase,more resignations,fewer applications and less co-operation from crew to help get flights done start to happen.
I am coming up 3 years here and at one stage i viewed EK and Dubai as a career airline and place to live.Not so anymore ,my plan is to do my upgrade ,rack the required hours for a decent job elsewhere and then leave.
Mercenary ,yes ,but i am following the example set by EK.
Enjoy your desk job.

[Crinklstein]

A few months ago a survey was run to establish who would or would not work on their day off. I ran some figures based on everyone who participated in the poll and came up with the interesting fact that they represented at best a mere 10% of the EK pilot workforce. If we suppose that that 10% represented everyone who was disenchanted with EK, then it figures that 90% of the pilot workforce at EK don't really care about pprune and/or are happy with the company. For those of you who like to whinge and run the airline down I really hope things improve for you. If they don't, I suggest you find the nearest exit and deploy a slide.

:yuk:

[ruserious]

If we suppose that that 10% represented everyone who was disenchanted with EK
By any means that is a bit of a leap of faith and applies more importance to your survey than is justified. Getting 10% input from the pilot body is remarkable, as with other forums and sites you would be lucky to get 10% of the membership to vote, never mind a group of people who for whatever reason are not members of this site.

[MTOW]

A few months ago a survey was run to establish who would or would not work on their day off. I ran some figures based on everyone who participated in the pollCrinkly, with these words, I think you make have just blown your own cover.

He's a HR Department stooge, gents.

So now the mystery's solved and we know what HR Departments actually do all day during working hours - they troll the *** Internet.

[Gillegan]

A few months ago a survey was run to establish who would or would not work on their day off. I ran some figures based on everyone who participated in the poll and came up with the interesting fact that they represented at best a mere 10% of the EK pilot workforce. If we suppose that that 10% represented everyone who was disenchanted with EK, then it figures that 90% of the pilot workforce at EK don't really care about pprune and/or are happy with the company. For those of you who like to whinge and run the airline down I really hope things improve for you. If they don't, I suggest you find the nearest exit and deploy a slide.
Crinklstein,
I suggest that you obtain and read the first chapter in any statistics/polling textbook. While I don't think that anyone could argue that a poll conducted on PPRUNE is a valid statistical sample, to argue that anyone who does not participate in the forum here is by definition, contented is pure hogwash. If you had any interaction with the pilots here at Emirates, you would know that a significant portion are disillusioned, disgusted or just plain fed up? 20%, 50%, 80%? Your guess is as good as mine but the proof lies in the ever increasing rate of resignations. I usually refrain from personal replies, but as far as agendas go on this forum, yours sir is as naked as any that I have seen. If you want to know how screwed up things are, don't take my word for it. Go talk to the middle managers in Flight Operations who have been screaming about recruitment/retention and the inability to train those that do join. Take a look at the manpower requirement vs. availability charts for training for the next 6 months. If you want to have a debate on the issues, go for it. What's your interpretation of the company's desperate attempt to get the planes off the ground this summer by ignoring accepted interpretation of the regulations and employing the dubious practice of factoring. Were you even here the last time they tried it? Did you see the state that some guys were in when they went to work? What do you think about the 15% pay cut that the pilots took 4 years ago under the guise of a "cost neutral pay adjustment?" I know, here comes the standard response, "if you don't like it, leave." Please, if that's the best that you can do, don't bother. Companies that are successful in the long term usually employ more enlightened managerial practices than, "shut up and do what you're told." They establish working two-way lines of communications with the employees and actually work to solve the problems.

[ernestkgann]

Must be a slump in the recruiting numbers so the bosses have deployed mr C. Stein to set the record straight, again. Very similar stuff to his fact based expositions of February.

[Ghostflyer]

How come the RGs are not appearing on the portal? I see 3 this month but have met another 3 that have gone without RGs? How many have actually gone in the last couple of months?