Qantas to outsource mainline operations to Jetstar

[radiation junkie]

The next "Roadshow" should be a good one. Can't wait for the "Doom and Gloom" scenario's . Back to the "same old" again. Do I sound disengaged ??!!
From today's SMH:
In a sign Qantas will continue its aggressive cost-cutting program, the airline said in a statement that its two-day board meeting had discussed plans "to further pursue cost reduction and efficiencies" and "restructure" its international operations.
There is speculation Qantas could eventually outsource its mainline operations to Jetstar.
Qantas shareholders also stand to reap a huge dividend.
After the consortium announced it would rip $4.5 billion out of the airline, Qantas said it would "conduct an extensive review of its capital management strategies over the next few months".
While the board and investors have let Mr Dixon and his senior executives off the hook, they could face some abuse next week when they host a three-day "employee roadshow". The roadshow, will update staff on the company's strategies, competitive position and performance".
Tension across Qantas's workforce is especially high, given the airline this week went on the front foot in its campaign to introduce non-union endorsed Australian Workplace Agreements (AWAs).
Aside from its low-cost offshoot Jetstar confirming plans to introduce AWAs for all new pilots and engineers, Qantas this week hit out at the Federal Opposition's plans to scrap AWAs if it won Government.

[Poto]

In the words of "Frau Farbissina" Austen Powers films

ALL LIES

:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

[Angle of Attack]

Regardless it is a mute point AWA's are gonna be scrapped by late this year, so they will have to negotiate an EBA, so why bother? Well I guess if there are some Jetstar pilots on AWA's they will have the option for the term to come to the end but that's about it. Howard is gone, its a fact.

Regarding pilots yes thats the problem the fact is the whole QF group are damn short across the board. My leave has been delayed Im stick houred limited in last 365 days to the max, so it means 14 weeks leave between now and end of year! haha gold! They can harp on all they like but lets keep it in perspective they need dudes and dudettes to fly their machines, pure and simple, and its getting tighter and tighter. The upshot of this is I hope there will be some good recruitment for GA and others across the board! Well I hope anyway! Good luck!:D

[Angle of Attack]

LOL!! PAF Damn are you sure your not a damn managemnet type? So if Howard goes the economy goes down? Haha! If Aviation goes down so be it I just move offshore! Thats the beauty at the moment! You management types can hope but unfortunately even if you push 1000 lead pencils on to paper the kinetic energy of that means squat! I push the throttle to take-off power and it will blow your paper factory to oblivion!!!

Man Australia is riding the minerals boom, I argue that we would be better off under Labour because it historically spends more in R&D and infrastructure. That is why now the economy is being strangled by the lack of spending on these areas. Oh Sorry there were never any flights during public holidays in previous years when the Labour party was in government... Get over it. Let me re-iterate "HOWARD IS GONE. ITS A FACT"

I also said the APA bid for QF is dead around 3 months before i happened. I am not saying I am smart, I just know the mood of the community, I knew the mood of the APA bid within weeks, and I can damn guarantee that the mood is Howard is outta here. MAte I am stocking my fridge already! I will eat Humble pie if Howard gets in but, damn it will be rare to find the pie to eat! ^^

[maggotdriver]

Mr PAF, with all due respect, I think you'll find that not only has Uncle Johnny been lucky with the "Hole in the ground" but that horrible Labor policy that now has $1 000 000 000 and counting being invested for us has a not insubstantial reflection on the economy.
PS If you care to look up some stats according to a few stupid economists from Wollongong and the ANU there may be plausible debate about real PRODUCTIVITY gains under Messrs Howard and Co..
PPS Different question I know. Do you think (and this counts for the Labor Party as well) that voting in either house along party lines is akin to unionism? Well stone me to death those dumb shi.s have worked it out, you're more effective when there's a bunch of you; pity the stupid gang leaders, chimps and just about anyone else has come to the same conclusion. Enough rant, I'll stand and face the tide........... by myself NOT!:=

[Angle of Attack]

PAF Yes I would like to elaborate but it is beyond the scope of this forum. Our ports are at a bottle-neck, Roads are at breaking point, and general nation building policies are lacking.

Haha Who cares about other countries that exported or not before or after the financial crisis of 1997. It was all China , as far as you can't believe it we are a pawn of the power house of China, we are just a provider of their plans, HAha 2001? Mate that was a nothing on their radar, terrrorism is nothing in their world they continue to grow while we bicker about that crap, that is the perfect example of a self centred society we have become, while we bicker about terrorism China and now India just reaps the benefit.

But I dont belieive Australians bicker about this, But I do think we have become a slave of this pathetic government (that spends 500k to send a person home who has 7 months left on his sentence) Just to try and justify he is somehow dangerous.

So PAF as you rejoice in your little world of profit you should remember at the moment we are being used as a piece of rock as usual by foreign powers, we have no investment of our own industries at all under this current governement.

Mate if this is the best time we have, when I cant afford a house, and my kids are laden with $10,000 of debt after UNI and the health system is in chaos, then please explain what is going to happen in recession?? Jesus I cant think of a worse time but we are supposed to be in economic prosperity?? Inject me when we go in a downturn...

Umm And no I am not excited by the polls because they mean nothing.. Its pretty obvious there's going to be a change so why bother about the polls.. before I use an emote let me say Gold! Pure Gold! haha!!! :ok:

[What The]

PAF if you think the events of 1989 have any place in the debate of the pending Federal Election you have got to be joking.

:=

[Vorsicht]

Fortunately i dont live in Oz any more so i am a little out of touch with local politics. I am however somewhat confused. Having lived under the previous labour government, I would tend to find record low unemployment levels, Highest recorded consumer confidence, massive budget surplusses, moderate interest rates, lower tax rates etc, all to be a good thing.

How do you guys see it as a bad thing????

[illusion]

PAsso-frozo,
About the ONLY reason that Australia rode the 2001 downturn so well was the the AUD was trading below 0.50c US for most of it.

[Ultralights]

talk about thread drift!. i think Johhny will stay in, but by a slim margin.

the silent majority hasnt spoken yet..

[Going Boeing]

Too many threads have drifted onto politics. I think that we will have massive amounts of BS forced down our throats during the campaign later this year that we don't need to turn this forum into yet another political billboard. If you need to get your political views off your chest, every MP has his/her own website and would welcome your views via e-mail. :)

[MIss Behaviour]

Back to the topic of the possibility/probability of Jetstar operating mainline domestic services.....

The decision makers never have a problem implementing change as long as it's not something they're expected to do themselves, not unlike the political mantra of do as I say, not do as I do.

For that reason I cannot see the board voting for an option that would put an end to them travelling J class domestically. Selfish but true.

With the latest round of VR for flight attendants paving the way for yet another influx of MAM's recruits it's only a matter of time before the chickens come home to roost and management get a real taste of what they've created.

Someone in recruiting needs a kick in the bum for not realising that although Taiwanese new hires maybe handy for their Mandarin language skills on the Shanghai & Beijing routes, mainland China however, is less enthusiastic to the tune that they're not welcome. Remember the Australia Asia SP's with the Taiwanese ribbons replacing the rat?

Their idea of in-flight service is somewhat different to what we currently enjoy. Once upon a time on prior to landing the PA would be something like "ladies and gentlemen as we have now commenced descent into XYZ please ensure that your seatbacks and tray tables are in the upright position...." now it's "UP, UP, UP" yelled enthusiastically as they make their way through the cabin. It obviously worked well on CI.

I would love to be a fly on the wall of the J class cabin when a certain CEO seated in 1A who is accustomed to the "would you care for some dinner this evening" is confronted by a new recruit working her first shift in Business Class (who incidentally doesn't know who the CEO is never mind what he looks like) with "YOU WANNA EAT"?!

That's gold! :D :D

[newsensation]

Would Pilots on AWA's have a seniority number?

[LookinDown]

That's a VERY interesting question!

[Alien Role]

I think you might find that seniority is not an option under AWA's.
In fact I suspect it may not comply with the legislation, so is it any wonder that Qantas / Jetstar are very keen to get new hires onto AWA's.

For those new Jet* recruits contemplating taking a job on an AWA, you will be signing away any control you may think you have in preventing DEC's ,bypasses for Command and may well languish as an F/O for as long as the whim suits the Company agenda. :\
Role on.....

[Shouldhe]

With the looming AWA approach to new hires, it seems a job in the airline industry is far less attractive.
From what I read here (yes it is RUMOUR) it seems that AWA's will (rumour!)
1. Stipulate no pay rise annually unless the company makes a profit (how much profit required before a pay rise is given?? - who knows)
2. Allow DEC's to enter above me and thus slow or stop my progression.
Will mother Q do the same??
For me at least J* looked like a fairly reasonable proposition (despite the cost of a rating!), as it would have meant entry as an F/O, a pay cut for only 3-5 years until command then a big pay rise and that I could live and work in my home city... now however, all the pluses appear to be going.
Anyone been offered a job but considering knocking it back?

[freddyKrueger]

Its even worse than that. Assuming you did take up their offer of an AWA, you'll always be looking over your shoulder making sure that you are a TEAM PLAYER with a PERFOMANCE CULTURE.

Team players
Attend the 'right' BBQ's.
Don't join the union.
Are not 'troublemakers'.
Don't embarrass the company with inconvenient paper reports about defects in the operation.
No is a dirty word.

Performance Culture.
Accept company fuel offer.
Extending TOD's without question.
Not question the Captain's judgment lest he talk about you in the office.
Accept unserviceable aircraft.
Operate fatigued

In other words, you'll have to trade you professional discretion for career advancement or contract renewal. The operations will always be 'legal' in the strictest sense but with reduced margin for error. Oh, and if you happen to fcuk it up or have a bad day, buddy, your on your own.
This is all about micro managing & controlling the pilots to remove discretion & do exactly what you are told, but conveniently absolving management of responsibility. They get the bonus, you get the responsibility.
You will simply be management's bunny.

[Going Boeing]

Shouldhe
Qantas is about to start employing in large numbers. Rumour is that the new hires will be on a "B" scale compared to existing S/O's and probably on AWA's. The current intent is that AWA's will eventually be bundled into the Long Haul Certified agreement when the forthcoming EBA 8 is agreed (based on previous EBA's that will be at least another two years - management are beligerent negotiators and this AIPA COM is not going to take any of their crap).
Management want the "B" scale for two reasons:- 1. to save big bucks, 2. so that when guys get promoted to F/O on the B737 or B767 they get a substantial payrise. Personally, I thought the best way to achieve that was to increase F/O salaries.
Reference Jetstar, you should be refusing them simply because they require you to pay for your endorsement. As others have posted on PPRuNe, this blight on our profession will only go away when guys like you stand up to them.

Well said Freddy

[aulglarse]

Freddy, your last paragraph pretty much sums it all up-right now, without AWA's.

[Pimp Daddy]

Would Pilots on AWA's have a seniority number?

Yes, but they would all have the same number.

[Scooter Rassmussin]

Is it true Qantas may take Direct entry or contract (read AWA) crew for mainline ops especially with 787 coming to save on training costs.......:mad:

[fender]

what is all the fuss about... AWA is good for me.
whingerzzzz

[Going Boeing]

For the preservation of our profession the huge majority of pilots would prefer that pilots applying to airlines take a long term view of their potential careers. Looking after number 1 and accepting AWA's is not long term.

[GaryGnu]

Fortunately i dont live in Oz any more so i am a little out of touch with local politics. I am however somewhat confused. Having lived under the previous labour government, I would tend to find record low unemployment levels, Highest recorded consumer confidence, massive budget surplusses, moderate interest rates, lower tax rates etc, all to be a good thing.

How do you guys see it as a bad thing????

Vorsicht,

You are correct the economy is in a very good state right now.

However, to an employee who cannot get an improvement in their working conditions and share in the benefits of a booming economy I would argue that all those conditions you listed don't mean much to him/her.

Have a look at the recent wage price index figures for sectors with high AWA penetration rates such as Retail and Hospitality and you may get an inkling as to why the current government is on the nose.

[GetOffMyBack]

So what did Mr Dixon have to say in the Roadshow???